FlipStart to Replace Your Laptop? 249
WED Fan writes "Paul Allen has a new hardware venture, smaller than a laptop, larger than a blackberry. According to the Seattle P-I, the vision is to replace the laptop for most everyday use, such as office applications, email, and web surfing. 'Really, FlipStart gives you everything that your laptop does [...] We're not promoting the idea that you would do CAD design on it, but for Office applications and most of what people do with their laptops, it's great.' But at a $2000 price tag, this could be a little bit out of the range of many users. The product will launch on FlipStart.com in the not to distant future."
The Sub-Notebook returns! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony tried this years ago with their Vaio sub-notebook [wikipedia.org] line of computers. (Here's a picture. [wikipedia.org]) Unlike this... thing... its keyboard was actually fairly decent, the screen was bright, and it was overall fairly useful. It's only problem was that it just wasn't large enough to be practical. You can't really type notes on a keyboard of that size. Nor are you really going to squint at the small screen while typing letters/memos/spreadsheets. That's why the entire market moved more toward the ultra-thin notebooks that were nearly as portable, but offered larger screens and keyboards.
The only advantage I can find with this thing is that it's a sub-notebook with Wifi. (Based on the comments about replacing the BlackBerry.) Possibly even GSM/EDGE support. I don't think that's going to make up for the lousy form factor, especially when you can get a $50 PCMCIA card from your cell provider to do the same thing.
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Re:The Sub-Notebook returns! (Score:5, Insightful)
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This appears to be a little different, though. If you look at the photo of it, it appears to have one of those calculator-key keyboards that's really difficult to use. Probably a chiclet keyboard with plastic nubs for keys. Quite the departure from the scissor switch keyboards found in many laptops.
Besides that, most people
Re:The Sub-Notebook returns! (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to disagree, because I code all day and type very quickly, but have you seen most teenagers with a cell phone? I think there is something typing in a way other than with which we are accustom. The key also may be that the trade off in speed is acceptable for the convenience of the size.
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The screen would, though. When I'm coding, I want all the screen resolution I can get, and as big a display as possible to read it on.
Re:The Sub-Notebook returns! (Score:4, Insightful)
If not, then you aren't the demographic as this thing is being touted as a laptop-killer. Personally, I agree with the parent, it looks like an overpriced, underpowered PDA replacement.
I love how they always end up mentioning "every day" in this stuff. I love laptops, but when I buy a laptop, I don't buy it because I can do my "everyday" things on it (leaving out any gaming, most any damn laptop can run office or even visual studio...factor in linux and most any laptop will satisfy your "everyday" requirements), I buy it because it can do EVERYTHING I want it to do. This little gadget might run office type apps like nobody's business and might be able to surf the net ok, but if I'm dishing out big bucks it had better handle whatever I want to throw at it (and this machine doesn't look like it would cut it).
For many people its an either/or situation. Either you get a desktop or a laptop. I don't know too many people who get both and scrimp on a sub-standard laptop on special because they are satisfied with their desktop.
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I've done it, but not by choice. I would much rather be coding on a desktop with a nice big monitor than a laptop, and much rather a laptop than a mini laptop-pda hybrid, and only on a PDA to actually save the planet. Granted, there are laptops with much nicer displays than mine, but for any given budget I'd prefer a development system to be a non-portable device. There are plenty of times a laptop is fine for me, bu
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On the other hand, yes, there are times when I don't need a full screen and keyboard: maybe I just want to look up the showtimes for a movie, find street directions on Google Maps, dash off a quick email to my friend. But here, it's too heavy (1.5 lbs), d
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I loved my sub-notebook for some things (Score:5, Informative)
Sucky things: If it is too big to fit in your pocket you have to hand lug it and the size is not a huge benefit over a regular laptop. Screen is really too small, even for word processing etc.
Nokia 9300 (Score:3, Informative)
It fits in the pocket and can do pretty much everything a laptop can do. The really massive benefit though isn't readily apparent. That is, you always have all your data with you.
Neither fish nor fowl (Score:2)
I could live with the reduced performance for general purpose applications. Especially if you could pare down the OS a little so I didn't notice too much. But the real catch to me is the size.
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I think the problem is that there really isn't that much of a market for this feature set, whether i
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They sell you a small brick for more than a notebook computer costs. [etc, etc] I'm not following.
The point of this is SMALL.
Sony tried this years ago with their Vaio sub-notebook line of computers.
They are bigger, and the screen resolution sucked on them. The question is whether this new device has a "real" screen resolution. And you criticize the keyboard of this new device, missing the point of SMALL. Small is not compatible with "good keyboard".
I don't think that's going to make up for the
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The point is not, "so SMALL that it's useless". We can make a computer that fits in an oversized watch, but you wouldn't want to use it, either.
If the slightly larger Sony products (which had better keyboards and longer relative battery life, mind you) were to SMALL to be useful, why would this POS be any more useful?
I'm sure that many-a-technophile will appreciate how SMALL this thing is sitting on a SMALL shelf in a SMALL corner of a SMALL closet, having gotten SMALL amounts of
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There are smaller devices out there for less money. WinCE/PocketPC PDAs, Zauruses (Zaurii?). Those are a lot more transportable than this 1.5" thick brick. You're right that small and good keyboard don't go together, but that's exactly what it looks like they tried to do.
So -- and this is a real question -- what sort of
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There are smaller devices out there for less money. WinCE/PocketPC PDAs, Zauruses (Zaurii?).
Those are PDAs, with all the limitations of PDAs. They can't run general Windows applications. That's part of the point of this.
So -- and this is a real question -- what sort of application would this device be suited for?When would this be an ideal device instead of a pocket-sized/palmtop computer or a small notebook?
Oh, how about a real web browser (e.g. Google Maps). How about running full Office? How a
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All of your arguments apply when comparing laptops to desktops; but people use them anyway because of the enormous convenience of being able to carry around your computer.
The question is whether the convenience of this particular device is enough to get people to buy it; probably not right now. This is exactly what I want from a device, but I wouldn't pay 2k for it.
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O RLY?
Ok, I'll give you that one. Laptops/Notebooks are more expensive than desktops.
Laptop processors are quite competitive with their Desktop cousins. Especially when referring to the power-friendly Core Duo, which many folks find more desirable than the latest Pentium IV.
Laptop screens are very competitive with 15-17 inch desktop screens.
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Fair enough.
However, I'd like to point out that the sub-notebook market is anything but new. In fact, it's been around for over a decade. The problem is not one of technology. It's one of practicality. These devices are not practical computers. Which makes paying exhorbant sums of money for them... well, impractical.
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HP and Toshiba got rid of that advantage with their 17" notebooks. There's a full-sized numberpad on many laptop models now.
Re:The Sub-Notebook returns! (Score:4, Informative)
4 form factor categories (Score:2)
There are basically 4 broad categories of form factor based around the effort involved in carrying them, which I will call Pocket, Portable, Luggable, and Immoveable.
Pocket is your cell phone, your pda, your blackberry. They fit in your pocket, so they're ea
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Folding keyboard (Score:2)
[snip]
It's only problem was that it just wasn't large enough to be practical. You can't really type notes on a keyboard of that size.
And yet, a folding keyboard, when attached to a Palm III, is quite usable for taking notes, writing travelogues, etc. It mostly suffers from the limitations of the Palm: very limited and volatile mass storage, no networking.
But the folding idea allows for a reasonable sized keyboard to fit in a small spa
Doomed by the iPhone? (Score:2, Interesting)
I have a feeling the iPhone will be able to do all this gizmo does, at a fraction of the weight and cost, a bit slower perhaps, but at 10x the [babe version of yor choice]-magnet factor.
I'm not trying to plug iPhones, but what kind of cool stuff has Vulcan lately, versus Apple? (Besides spiffing up downtown Seattle.)
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Very lightweight, battery life was comparable to laptops at the same time, a little over 2 hours IIRC.
There was no wireless then but I had a 3COM 10/100 PCMCIA with an XJACK so there was my ethernet without a dongle.
I used a USB to Serial for programming routers and used the onboard camera to take pictures of datacenters.
This was a notebook that was supposed to appeal to realtors because of the onboard digital camera.
What sucked was that it came with
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What I really want to buy is a clamshell pocket PC of some sort so that I can do serious computing in ad-hoc environments. Something like the old Psion series clamshells, but with more modern hardware. I like the Palm derived machines, but you can't reall
I'd rather have a one laptop per child (Score:2)
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http://www0.epinions.com/pr-Fujitsu_LifeBook_P1032 _FPCM02053_PC_Notebook/display_~full_specs [epinions.com]
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A fast CPU isn't necessary for a lot of everyday tasks. Isn't this Slashdot, where people boast about how nicely they can surf the web and do email on pitifully old hardware?
Portability is key for some people. When you *have* to carry something around all
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It occurs to me that the most important thing when developing a new form factor is how are people going to carry this.
Cell phones can comfortably be put in your trouser pockets. Everyone has pockets, so the form factor is a s
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Paul Allen hasn't been with MS for decades.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-Mobile_PC [wikipedia.org] (code name "origami")
$2000? (Score:2)
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Personally, I just need a web browser, IM, and email client on a device the Size of the Nintedo DS.
In fact the Nintendo DS would be perfect if it had a qwerty keyboard and moved the touch screen to the top part and have it wider.
The price is a dealbreaker (Score:4, Insightful)
Vaporware since 2004 (Score:5, Informative)
I'll believe it when woot has it on sale...
So... replace a $1000 laptop with a $2000 device? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So... replace a $1000 laptop with a $2000 devic (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been looking forward to this... (Score:2)
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Fuck the NoteBook, Transform the DS. (Score:4, Interesting)
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Tablet (Score:2)
This thing is a brick, which very often is harder to store/transport than a larger slate. Think notebooks. Once these things are as large as iPods/cell phones, they will become revolutionary, though I hazard to guess that the interaction models, and new ways of generating thinking artifacts will be the revolutionary part.
alternative: N800 and $1600 worth of beer (Score:2)
the screen is way too small (Score:2)
Except give you a screen you can actually see, and a keyboard you can actually use. Hm, there goes the output and input pieces, yep, its doomed for failure.
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Except give you a screen you can actually see, and a keyboard you can actually use. Hm, there goes the output and input pieces, yep, its doomed for failure.
These days I use a fairly small laptop for almost everything. The portability is important to me and I'd use it more if it were more portable. Is the small screen size a deal killer? Not really, I usually have it plugged into an external monitor when I'm in the office or at home, using just the built in screen at the coffee shop and on the road. Is the small keyboard size a deal killer? Well, I usually plug in an external trackball at the office and home, so plugging in a keyboard too is not a huge deal,
PC Mag review here (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple will kill this device (Score:4, Funny)
And is it just me or is Paul Allen grinning like a paedophile holding something illicit in his hands? I can't believe their marketing team let that through (they probably don't have one, mind you).
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What about the SCREEN?? (Score:2)
Yeah, it's pricey, but the big question that the article doesn't address is screen resolution (and why isn't that given so often when discussing new notebooks?) Yes, we've had sub-notebooks before that failed, but I think one of the big reasons they fail is that the screens are typically 640 pixels across. You can't do anything reasonable with 640 pixels!
If this thing has 1024 pixels horizontal, and the price comes down a bit, I'd be all over it.
And in other revolutionary news: (Score:5, Funny)
--a revolutionary car bigger than a SmartCar [smartcarofamerica.com] but smaller than a Mini Cooper
--a revolutionary porridge heater that will heat porridge warmer than "too cold," but colder than "too hot"
--a revolutionary Budweiser bigger than a 10-ounce [npr.org] but smaller than a 12-ounce.
Laboratory prototypes of the latter include a 10.5-ounce Bud, an 11-ounce Bud, and an 11.5-ounce Bud. "Really, they give you practically everything that 12-ounce Bud does," said a FlipStart spokesman, appropriately named Budd.
Toshiba Libretto (Score:2)
Are you kidding me? (Score:2)
Not revolutionary... (Score:2)
I just don't think a scaled down laptop is going to cut it. On the one hand, it's too small to be used efficiently as a laptop, on the other, it's too large to be a carry-everywhere device.
I think the better direction is a mid-sized tablet device. Not a clunky windows PC with tablet functions duct taped on, like MS has provided thus far. I'm thinking more of a
Ow...my neck! (Score:2)
But I'm a web developer. I spend hours on it every day. The only way this can stay ergonomically practical is by using an adapter to use an external monitor and using a USB mouse. Otherwise, my neck and wrist will start screaming at me.
A device even smaller than my laptop would be good for using a few minutes at a time, to check email, or look up something on the web. Little m
sorry.. but no... (Score:2)
"5.6" display"
Next please.
Good idea without Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it needs to be x86, with in turn means that it needs to have a bigger battery, fancier engineering, special cooling. A hard drive because it needs to swap due to Windows memory needs and usage patterns.
Kill off Windows, and then you have a bunch of better processors - PPC, ARM, whatever. Smaller battery. No special cooling. No need for a hard drive. No Windows license. Room for other features - cell phone/modem? Bluetooth hub functionality?
BTW, it has pretty much been done... [engadget.com] Too bad it isn't Linux.
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And no users.
Eliminate the ability to run software on it, and you'll eliminate all customer demand at the same time -- think of the savings in distribution and sales costs!
If people were willing to run non-windows programs, Linux would be a lot more popular than it is. Heck, the Mac would be a lot more popular than it is. But they ar
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Recycled, wrong solution to same problem (Score:2)
So how many failed technologies can you see? (Score:2)
Color me unimpressed. (Score:2)
~Philly
nokia n800 (Score:3, Interesting)
The genius of the n800 I think is that it is not a laptop and not a pda. It is its own class of device, with a UI designed specificly for its small high resolution screen, touch screen, and set of buttons.
I am still waiting for a computer that looks like a small book, but where the screen itself folds in half, to become a tablet with a reasonable screen size. Apple dreamed of such a device called the Knowledge Navigator years ago in the following video, and I hope display and voice recognition technology will make this something real within the next 5 years.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3WdS4TscWH8 [youtube.com]
Or... (Score:2)
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/The_Children's_Machine [laptop.org]
Right... (Score:2)
Hear Yee! Hear Yee! (Score:2)
My computer is faster! (crowd murmers)
My computer is cheaper (more murmering)
Does not keep the opposite sex away like being hunched over a keyboard. (crowd murmers)
Any notions that anyone needing something bigger and more useful than a crackberry, but easier to travel with than a laptop shall be sentenced to public humiliation in the town square!
Hear Yee. Hear Yee. That is all.
Divergence (Score:2)
It always amuses me how execs think men
Other devices in this space (Score:2)
That said, anyone interested in this space might want to take a look at the following devices:
- Sony Vaio UX series (official site [learningcenter.sony.us] w/ too much flash)
- Nokia N800 internet
Battery Life.... (Score:2)
I've said it before and I'll say it again the last mobile device that really worked for me was the psion 5. I don't need a color screen, sound or mechanical drives. Ideally a 1024x768 gray scale coupled with a low power cpu and 32GB of SRAM. Keep your power guzzling features and let me have a weeks vacation and no need to plug the thing in.
Of course we can't have that, that would be useful.
Like a laptop, only smaller (Score:2)
*bang head against wall*
If I wanted something much smaller, I'd have bought a Psion Revo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Revo [wikipedia.org] ), which isn't some twisted halfbreed between a laptop and a PDA (it's more what PDAs were, before someone got handwriting recognition w
Paul Allen.... (Score:2)
I swear, if you say that management is like a college coaching staff, Microsoft would be Duke. The main guy (Coach K) is really good, but his high profile mentees are pretty awful (Synder at Missouri, Amaker at Michigan).
Will launch in the not to(o) distant future... (Score:2)
Man! Those $100 Laptops... (Score:2)
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You waited three years to tell... &*$%#@ [NO CARRIER]
Re:Get an OQO instead (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Get an OQO instead (Score:4, Interesting)
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"Is there anyone who can get by without a Core 2 or something similar?"
The vast majority of computer users do not need that much power. I'm a professional software designer. The machine that stores my backups runs a Celeron 400. My WinXP machine has a Via C3 600MHz. My most powerful home machine is an Athlon XP at 1.4GHz. These work just fine for office-type tasks, hobby coding, web surfing, DVD/CD
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I see lots of comments on how underpowered it is, and how regular laptops have better specs than this for half the price, and high end laptops fly past it. But if it could stop a bullet and get thrashed about in a washing machine, one could see it as a good portable device for demanding territory.
That's where I see this device: a stripped down, but even more resiliant Toughbook.
However, at only
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There's no way I'd pay $2,000 for something with a smaller keyboard, smaller hard drive, presumably less ram and a slower CPU. If
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