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Police Using YouTube to Catch Killers 111

Accommodate Students writes "The BBC is reporting on Greater Manchester police's attempts to use YouTube to catch the killers of the 15 year old, Jessie James. The video features a message from Jessie's mother Barbara Reid and sister Rosemary. BBC radio news has said this is the first time the police force have used YouTube in this way to catch criminals." Update: 10/08 07:40 GMT by Z : Sorry, misunderstood the situation. Thanks for the clarification.
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Police Using YouTube to Catch Killers

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 07, 2006 @10:42PM (#16352273)
    I love The Killers. There's all sorts of videos, interviews and other performances available on YouTube. Just search for The Killers [youtube.com].
    • by linuxci ( 3530 )
      and this Mail is totally unrelated to that rather awful rag the Daily Mail (whose Sunday version is called the Mail on Sunday as opposed to this one that's the Sunday Mail).

      The Sunday Mail is a scottish paper.

      We have a few oddly named papers in the UK. The Sunday Sun is a local sunday newspaper for Newcastle area and has no relation to Rupert Murdoch's The Sun (their Sunday version is News of the World).

      I just thought I'd clear that up for anyone who seen 'Mail' and was wondering why the style was different
    • The Sunday Mail is the Sunday edition of the Daily Record, a Scottish tabloid newspaper commonly seen turning yellow on the dashboard of rusty Ford Transits at building sites all over the country. Often to be seen alongside half-empty bottles of Irn Bru.
  • Slow news day? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Spazntwich ( 208070 )
    Why are editors publishing stories to they front page they themselves consider unimportant?
    • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Perhaps they are posting them to englighten their readers and open up discussion. Slashdot is, afterall, as much about the discussion (ideally) as the articles themselves.

      I'm tired of seeing these negative posts. If you don't like it don't click it. They aren't holding guns to your head.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by EVil Lawyer ( 947367 )
      I think you've missed the point. The story about YouTube is separate from the story about the murder. The YouTube angle is News for Nerds, and makes sense to be posted on slashdot. The question from the editor was more like "why is this murder case important enough to garner so much media attention, such that the police would go to the extent of using YouTube to try to catch the criminals?" That's not a commentary on the relevance or importance of the YouTube story.
      • by 1u3hr ( 530656 )
        The question from the editor was more like "why is this murder case important enough to garner so much media attention, such that the police would go to the extent of using YouTube to try to catch the criminals?"

        I don't know why using Youtube is an indication of importance. It costs nothing and anyone can do it. It's easier than running off fliers and handing them out in hte street. If they'd put it on broadcast TV, that would be making it important.

        • But this is the first and only time they've thought it was worth using YouTube. So it is kind of remarkable.
    • Perhaps they consider the overreaction to the case to be newsworthy, though the original story shouldn't have been.
  • by Deadstick ( 535032 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @10:57PM (#16352339)
    ...why we in the States would not consider it noteworthy.

    rj

    • It's in another country?
      We got lots of guns and shootings?
      Mainstream Media is currently in the election story arc (and with this Foley guy, well, it's all sweet cash for them)?

      Anyway, we're getting a deluge of death reports from Iraq so... you know, back of the line and all that. :-/
      • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:25PM (#16352471)
        You would not consider it newsworthy in the States because it's not a middle class caucasian girl and is not being shown around the clock on CNN.

        (This is not flamebait. Think about it for a second)
        • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

          by nwbvt ( 768631 )
          There are "middle class caucasian girls" who die tragic deaths or who go missing or who are raped, etc., all the time, only a small few make the national news circuit. Furthermore that is not at all limited to "middle class caucasian girls", there are numerous examples of crimes against minorities, boys/men, and poor people who make the news all the time (the Duke rape case is a prime example, yes she was a chick, but still meets two of the three).
        • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

          by kz45 ( 175825 )
          "You would not consider it newsworthy in the States because it's not a middle class caucasian girl and is not being shown around the clock on CNN."

          Funny. When Fox news shows non-caucasian murders and other crimes it's considered racist by the left.

    • because the victim wasn't a prepubescent beauty queen being dressed up by her parents and pranced around like a stripper?
  • Noteworthy... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There's nothing *special* about it. Murder is still considered noteworthy in itself here in Britain...
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rsidd ( 6328 )
      And in the rest of the world. Here in Chennai (India), burglaries are reported in the newspaper.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        Yeah, I've always wondered... do you (USA-sians) guys cover *all* the previous days murders on the news (list their names?), or just local murders, or do you just ignore anyone who wasn't rich/famous? Murders here (Australia) are usually the first to third story on the news..
        • Re:Noteworthy... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by slick_rick ( 193080 ) * <.ofni.llewor. .ta. .todhsalsrwr.> on Sunday October 08, 2006 @02:24AM (#16353105) Homepage Journal
          It is all relative, so it really depends on where you live. If you live in Southern California, they might not even bother mentioning any murders save for the really sensational ones... But you are talking about a metro area (SoCal) with more people (24 million [wikipedia.org]) then all of Australia(20 million [cia.gov])... I doubt Australias national news news reports on Perths murders (except for the really sensational ones), but I could be wrong.

          If you live in a smaller metro like here in Grand Rapids/Western MI a metro of about .75 million, all murders definitely make the news (as do the followups on who, what, when, and what the sentence was).

          It is all about scale my friend.
          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by Anonymous Coward
            I doubt Australias national news news reports on Perths murders (except for the really sensational ones), but I could be wrong.
            You are. We only get around 300 murders per year in Australia - that's less than one per day. So yeah, we hear about all of them.
          • In my area of Canada with cities of about .3Mil the murders make the top story as they probably should. And the typically weak sentence for the murderer too.
        • The word is "Americans". It doesn't matter whether you disagree that "Americans" is the proper word, on moral, political or geographic grounds. The fact is that "Americans" is the word in use, in English, to describe citizens of the United States.
        • It depends very strongly on where you live. In Detroit, the newspaper covers maybe 50-70 murders a year, out of around 1000 in the metro area (population: 3 million or so). In Spokane, the newspaper covers every murder within 50 miles of the city (population: around 600,000).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Zone-MR ( 631588 ) *
      It's not that...

      In any country with > 60M people, it's sadly inevitable that murders will happen on almost a weekly basis. However in many countries you'll rarely see murder covered prominently on the national news. This isn't because they don't consider murder important. This isn't because murder never happens there, or happens so often that the public no longer cares....

      Looking at the UK news you'll regularly see headlines about mothers mutillating their babies, creepy guys raping 6 year old kids, and
      • The reality is different - crime rates aren't much different than elsewhere

        I'm not sure if you are comparing like to like. It's been a long time since I took courses outside my areas of specialty (~ 20 years), but when I was in school (college) theories of social density and its correlation to behavioral pathology were widely accepted. Much available data supported the correlation and many studies were published.

        The general idea is that when you increase the number of people per square unit of surface

  • by lxt ( 724570 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:00PM (#16352355) Journal
    The simple fact that a 15 year old boy getting shot gets such media attention in Britain (when compared to similar events in America) is noteworthy. Sure, the USA is a far larger country, but even at a State level you don't really see the same kind of news reporting when it comes to these kind of shootings.
    • by Danse ( 1026 )
      Sure, the USA is a far larger country, but even at a State level you don't really see the same kind of news reporting when it comes to these kind of shootings.

      But then again, we have states that are larger than Britain.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Cato ( 8296 )
        Not in terms of population, which is what matters in terms of crime newsworthiness - the UK has 60 million inhabitants.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Shivetya ( 243324 )
      you obviously don't watch local news.

    • I think this is newsworthy on Slashdot because of the youtube connection. The point of the story was that police are using youtube to help solve a crime. This aspect is very interesting to me and I would expect to see this covered on slashdot.
    • by blippy ( 844130 )

      The simple fact that a 15 year old boy getting shot gets such media attention in Britain (when compared to similar events in America) is noteworthy. Sure, the USA is a far larger country, but even at a State level you don't really see the same kind of news reporting when it comes to these kind of shootings.

      Old Jim Davidson joke: an American visits Britain, and casts his eye over the architecture.
      American to Briton: You know, boy, back in the States we have buildings 10 times the size of that one over

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:01PM (#16352357)
    Other than the obvious and regrettably tragedy of the situation, why is this case noteworthy?

    Well, in some countries, like the UK, there aren't so many murders everyday throughout the year that the populace has lost all sense of empathy when a human life is taken. All it takes is for there to be an unusual circumstance and it will become big news.

    I guess in some other countries, where bizzare murders and school/work shootings happen all the time and people are bored of it, people would rather hear about Angela Jolie and Brad Pitt.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:09PM (#16352391)
      What!? Why!? Did something happen to Brangelina that I missed???
    • by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:39PM (#16352515) Homepage Journal
      Although it serves as a model example of flamebait, your post doesn't answer the question. The UK has averaged close to 3 murders a day for the last several years. 95% of those murders don't make headlines in the UK. So, Other than the obvious and regrettably tragedy of the situation, why is this case noteworthy?

      Dan East
      • by heinousjay ( 683506 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:44PM (#16352537) Journal
        Shhhh, you aren't allowed to answer a slam of the US with anything approaching logic.
      • They certainly make the news in local papers. The 5% or so you are talking about are the ones that make it to the national papers.
        • Gun related murders in my home city (which has the reputation of being the gun crime capital of the UK) definitely still get reported in the national newspapers. The latest one (two weeks ago) was reported by the Guardian, Times, BBC News, Sun, etc. Similarly the one before that in March 2005 (yes, 18 months between gun murders, although a man shot at a policewoman in February this year, also national news) The gun crime sparks the media interest to begin with. For the media to actually go up there and con
      • There is certainly more than one murder a week in the media, which is what your 5% of 3/day works out to.
      • by Bertie ( 87778 )
        A few reasons:

        Gun crime's on the increase in the UK (or so they'll have us believe, anyway), particularly in the rougher parts of the big cities. There's more illegally-held weapons in circulation these days, and what what particularly scares Joe Public, though he won't like to admit it, is that it's mostly young black people packing heat. Of course, when a mad old white man shoots a fleeing kid in the back with an illegally-held shotgun, the public clamours to have him released (go look up Tony Martin).

        As
      • Deaths by gunshot are extremely rare in the UK but there are a number of factors which make this case special.

        1: Gun crime as I mentioned
        2: The victim didn't do anything wrong and wasn't involved in gangs (apparently)
        3: The victim was young (and importantly for the media had a sweet, innocent photo of him)
        4: family was outspoken and generally media friendly

        Not all of murders like this get large media coverage, you get maybe 2-3 child murder cases hitting the front pages a year. However it wouldn't su

    • For what it's worth, this was reported by the BBC in '03.

      When guns were available in England they were seldom used in crime. A government study for 1890-1892 found an average of one handgun homicide a year in a population of 30 million. But murder rates for both countries are now changing. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and by last year it was 3.5 times. With American rates described as "in startling free-fall" and British rates as of O

      • by Attaturk ( 695988 ) on Sunday October 08, 2006 @12:55AM (#16352809) Homepage
        It should also be noted that the BBC article you quoted was written entirely by an American with a book out: "Joyce Malcolm, Professor of History, Bentley College, US. Author of Guns & Violence: the English Experience. Senior Advisor, MIT Security Studies Program"

        We British people do so love learning about guns and the "English Experience" from pro-gun Americans. ;-)

        In other words, published by the BBC it may be, but it's also a gun lobbyist's sales pitch on the idea of Brits embracing american gun culture so please don't take it out of context and please don't take it as any indication of the British culture and/or its attitude towards guns.

        The simple fact of the matter is that, by and large, we don't like guns here. We don't like people having guns and we don't even like our police force to have guns. If we had our way the army would still be equipped with swords, which you can still run away from by the way. ;-)

        The reason this story was both shocking and "noteworthy" was because the views expressed by Ms. Malcolm and her ilk are anathema to most Brits.
        We may well experience three murders a day on average in this country of roughly 65 million but I suspect that very, very few of them involve innocent children being shot on the street.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Attaturk ( 695988 )
          Just by way of reference, according to this pdf [homeoffice.gov.uk] :"Firearms are used in a very small proportion of all recorded crimes. Including air weapons, firearms were used in 0.40 per cent of all recorded crimes in 2001/02. Firearms other than air weapons were used in 0.18 per cent of all recorded crimes."
        • Yes, I realized that it was written by an American with a book to sell. I tried not to touch the "Brits should have guns" bit, but I thought the rising British violent crime rate was notable. America still ha(s|d) 3.5 times as many homicides, but that still suggests that a lot of people are getting killed in England. *shrug*

          Of course, that doesn't matter, because you're not nearly as bad as the savage Americans.

          • The amusing thing is, most gun crime is caused by unoriginal people trying to copy american gang culture. So it has little to do with the sudden illegality of guns, and more to do with a growing copycat gang culture since the ban was brought in. We've certainly had no more school shootings since the ban.

            You don't have that, "I need a gun because I don't trust my neighbours and might need to shoot them" attitude, instead you get the, "I'm in a gang and deal drugs so need a gun to shoot other gang members who
            • So you're suggesting that gun crime results from a failure of the creative imagination? Surely you don't suggest that British criminals should be "original" and think up their own methods for violent crime, instead of choosing to "copy" Americans? That's just plain silly.

              You say "We've certainly had no more school shootings since the ban." That proves nothing. Did you have more shootings before the ban? Do you have fewer, now? Do you honestly think the availability of guns was a primary factor that could ac
        • very few of them involve innocent children being shot on the street.

          Not that they dont deserve it. About 9 in each 10 crimes I have heard about since I came to the UK are 14-16 year old kids doing some kind of maniatic thing to pedestrians.

          A friend of mine was attacked (with gum guns) in the middle of the street at daylight by these bastards. And when I arrived people warned me to be aware of the teens as they are the most dangerous of all. It seems UK laws are pretty soft on these "kids" and parents just d
          • by Bertie ( 87778 )
            Actually, I find British teenagers on the whole to be better-behaved and more courteous than British adults on the whole. They get a bad press, and much of it undeserved - it tends to be just youthful exuberance blown out of proportion, rather than downright nastiness. For instance, I've never had to stop a teenager beating someone up for taking too long to buy a train ticket, which I had to do with a respectable-looking man in his late forties a few weeks ago. I've never had a teenager step out of his car
            • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by Kijori ( 897770 )
              I dunno, I've lived in Britain my whole life, and I feel like over the last few years it's moved from 18-25 year olds that I feel in the most danger from to the gangs of 13-16 year olds. Sure, most of them are nice, but there are a lot of 'bad eggs'.
              • I dunno, I've lived in Britain my whole life, and I feel like over the last few years it's moved from 18-25 year olds that I feel in the most danger from to the gangs of 13-16 year olds.
                That's just called ageing. :P
        • If we had our way the army would still be equipped with swords, which you can still run away from by the way. ;-)

          Back when the army was still equipped with swords there were also throwing daggers, archers, catapaults, ballistas, crossbows, trebuchets, slings, etc. Maybe running isn't the best answer. Maybe if someone wants to kill someone they are going to do it with whatever tools are handy.
      • What I'd like to see statistics on gun crime that show an actual breakdown of the figures:

        1) how many gun related deaths are criminal on criminal
        2) how many civilians are killed/attacked in their homes, and how often have these civilians been saved by their guns
        3) how often do people have their own guns used against them
        4) how many gun deaths are due to accidents

        and how these compare to the UK.

        I think something that is an anathema here is the idea of carrying around a gun to prevent mugging or to protect yo
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      The entire US is not devoid of empathy, and I find your implication otherwise offensive. UK Population: 60 Million. US population: 295 Million. (Granted those are the CIA #s so they're likely wrong ;) In short: there are more of us to go around, so country-wide news can't focus the same way it can in a (much) smaller country. Even if we have exactly the same per-capita murder rate (last I saw was USA:UK 4.2:3.3), we would have five times the number of events to try and report. As it is, factoring in d
      • But what sort of area do your newspapers cover? Presumably it isn't the whole country. We have "national" newspapers which ostensibly cover the whole of the UK. But Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own editions of these papers which take most of the news from the national version, and replace some stories with others which are of more interest to people within that part of the UK. Also, these three countries have their own newspapers which tend to be more popular than the national papers.
    • I guess in some other countries, where bizzare murders and school/work shootings happen all the time and people are bored of it, people would rather hear about Angela Jolie and Brad Pitt.

      After living in L.A. for the past year and watching the news fairly regularly, I'd have to say that's about right. It's either celebs or car chases.
    • erm it's newsworthy because the police are using youtube to try and catch the killers.
  • YouTube Link (Score:5, Informative)

    by Bueller_007 ( 535588 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:06PM (#16352383)
    Here's the video in question:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM6HmxlU-hI [youtube.com]
  • Excuse me but, (Score:2, Interesting)

    by pair-a-noyd ( 594371 )
    This is apparently related to the hatespeak-related jailing we discussed on Saturday. As this is obviously getting a lot of media attention over there, can someone from the UK enlighten us? Other than the obvious and regrettably tragedy of the situation, why is this case noteworthy?

    How so?

    No where do any of the articles mention anything about race or hate in this particular killing.
    Is the submitter of this story attempting to make things up?
    TFA mentions guns and GANGS, which would suggest that it is proba
    • Gang != black, especially in the UK where blacks are a tiny minority.
      • RTFA.. And read the related articles on BBC.. Duh..
        I assume nothing. I *always* RTFA before I comment.

        • by jvance ( 416133 )
          The articles suggest it's gang related. They don't suggest the ethnicity of the gang members. Manchester is 6% black, 8% Indian and Pakistani, 4% Asian and 82% white. There are black, Asian, Indian and Muslim gangs all fighting turf wars, although a Glamorgan University study showed that most gang members in the UK are actually white.

          You may have read the article, but you read into it your own biases based on the US inner city gang problem.

      • by kbox ( 980541 )
        especially in the UK where blacks are a tiny minority.
        And what planet is this alternative "UK" of which you speak on?
        • by jvance ( 416133 )
          > And what planet is this alternative "UK" of which you speak on?

          This [manchester.gov.uk] one. [cia.gov] You know, the one where 2% of the population is black?

          Now, if you're a member of the BNP [wikipedia.org] then you're too stupid to understand this, but black != Indian or Asian or Pakistani.

          • by kbox ( 980541 )
            Those stats are very much out of date.. Have a look outside from time to time. It's amazing what you might see.

            And seriously, You have cheapened your entire argument by suggesting that anyone who would question statistics on ethnicity percentages would be member of a right wing racist political party.
            I could almost hear you saying "Erm, welll, durr, erm,,, RACIST!".
            • by jvance ( 416133 )
              So the 2001 Census is seriously out of date?

              From the CIA World Fact Book:

              white (of which English 83.6%, Scottish 8.6%, Welsh 4.9%, Northern Irish 2.9%) 92.1%, black 2%, Indian 1.8%, Pakistani 1.3%, mixed 1.2%, other 1.6% (2001 census)

              Hmmm... Seems like since 1991 the proportion of blacks actually dropped by 0.1%

              My other point was, as far as the BNP is concerned, they're all wogs.

              As far as "have a look outside from time to time", if you're looking for something, you'll probably see it. When it comes to popu

    • ...hatespeak-related jailing we discussed on Saturday...getting a lot of media attention

      How so? Is the submitter of this story attempting to make things up? TFA mentions guns and GANGS, which would suggest that it is probably GANG related

      You're right, I think that, this particular case is BAU for Moss Side. But Zonk perhaps could be forgiven for sensing that there is indeed a heightened emphasis on racial tensions - there are lots of other nasty incidents [bbc.co.uk] and racist attacks [bbc.co.uk], the hard right UK Independe

  • very simple (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Trailer Trash ( 60756 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @11:16PM (#16352427) Homepage
    A large percentage of murder has a motive, and the killer and victim know each other. This case is particularly heinous for these reasons:

    1. The victim apparently didn't know the killers
    2. He was apparently chosen solely based on race
    3. The killers are still at large, and there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't do this again

    People don't think too much when drug dealers are killing each other, because most of us don't hang out with that crowd and aren't really affected by it. That's why a killing like this brings in much more attention.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pair-a-noyd ( 594371 )
      2. He was apparently chosen solely based on race.

      And from where did you glean this information?

      I've read every related article on the BBC and not one mentions anywhere that this killing was race and or hate driven.

      If you would read the articles at the BBC yourself you would see that the police and everyone else is calling this a gang related black on black crime.

      Are you trying to foment racial hatred towards whites?

      Post links to the articles citing that this was race/hate related please.
    • by Alioth ( 221270 )
      I think you may be getting confused with a different murder of a 15 year old, in Glasgow, where the boy was randomly taken and killed in revenge for someone being killed of the killer's ethnicity. The accused are already in court for that one (and it was purely racially motivated, and nothing else).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ctid ( 449118 )
      You're confusing two murders, probably because the Slashdot editor has got himself confused. The Anthony Walker murder happened in Liverpool and was a racist murder - he was waiting at a bus-stop with his white girlfriend and his cousin and some white kids took exception and murdered him with an ice-pick. The killers are not still at large, although they were on the run for a little while afterwards. The Jesse James murder happened in Manchester (a completely different city, 35 miles from Liverpool). It was
      • The Jesse James murder happened in Manchester (a completely different city, 35 miles from Liverpool). It wasn't a random shooting, but it seems to have been a case of mistaken identity

        Did they think he was going to be another Mr. Howard [wikipedia.org] or something? Those dirty little copycat cowards.

  • It's a big story because..

    a) it occurred in a crime ridden area of Manchester
    b) .. where the usual victims aren't young kids
    c) .. who are supposedly innocent
    d) .. who are supposedly 'god fearing'
    e) .. who are not white

    That is.. it totally doesn't fit the profile.

    It'd be the equivalent of a white beauty queen living in Compton getting hacked with a machete while walking along the street. That would be big news in the US whereas gun-related child murders seem to be a weekly event, unlike in the UK.
  • Is Zonk an idiot? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Stalyn ( 662 ) on Sunday October 08, 2006 @12:47AM (#16352775) Homepage Journal
    This is apparently related to the hatespeak-related jailing we discussed on Saturday.

    Jesse James != Anthony Walker. The only way they are related is that both murder victims are black.

    Other than the obvious and regrettably tragedy of the situation, why is this case noteworthy?

    What did Stalin say, "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic"? So how this particular case different than the thousands of others who die regularly? I dont know but that sure is a shitty way to look at the world.
    • by Cederic ( 9623 )

      The only way they are related is that both murder victims are black.

      I'd have said the more defining point of similarity is that they were both murdered.

  • I know this is Slashdot, and expecting people to read the article is a waste of time, so can we possibly get a little more info in the summary? I read the headline and thought it was going to be some really wierd but totally cool sting op.
  • This sure sounds like a Black on Black killing. Had it been somewhere a little to the East of Greater Manchester I might've suspected it was a White on Black racist killing, but not where it happened.
  • I'm only half kidding, either. Given that YouTube inhabitants are usually only slightly more sane than your average MySpace user, I suspect it won't be long before spoof or remix videos start cropping up.

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