Xbox 360 Coming With HDMI Port? 146
GeekGod writes "Images of an Xbox 360 motherboard with HDMI-port have been leaked on the internet. So it looks like Microsoft will follow into Sony's footsteps and release an Xbox 360 with a digital video output. This might also come in handy for their future HD-DVD addon, certainly when movies will get HDCP-protected."
HDMI (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:HDMI (Score:1)
Re:HDMI (Score:2, Informative)
Not neccesarily true - according to http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp [hdmi.org] , HDCP reduces the royalty cost of including HDMI on equipment, but is not actually a requirement for HDMI.
Your Behind (Score:2)
Re:Your Behind (Score:2)
Re:Your a moron! (Score:4, Informative)
And you don't understand marketing (Score:2)
Since that is about no-one the studios are not enabling this flag so they can sell millions of movies instead of ten.
The key for the future is to try and not support HDCP and HDMI. Buy HD TV displays that accept 1080p over component. Try to
Re:Your a moron! (Score:3, Funny)
Just to come up in the next line with:
Very funny indeed. Just to quote a fIREHOSE song: I must look like a dork!
Film at eleven: Godzilla Apocalypse: Grammar Nazi vs. Spelling Nazi
Re:Your a moron! (Score:2)
I think you mean a Minutemen song. "Political Song for Michael Jackson to Sing." Close enough.
Re:HDMI (Score:2)
Wow, that is rather similar to the European retail prices at EUR 499 (US$ 640) and EUR 599 (US$ 768), respectively. I can't find pre-order prices for the UK yet, though, so those may actually mark the new high score when released, like before.
Taxes (Score:2)
Note that both Australian and Euro prices include sales tax, whereas the US price does not. In Australia, that's 10%, which bring it a lot closer.
Still relatively expensive, but you can put that down to greater costs of doing business and/or size of the market. Plus a little margin to allow for currency fluctuations.
Re:HDMI (Score:2)
Here you go [play.com] - £549.99 for the 60Gb, though you have 3 mandatory games as part of that. Which may change, so you can't even order on the basis that the games sound like fun, since you might get three completely different ones.
Frankly, at that price, Sony can go piss up a rope, Blu-Ray or no Blu-Ray.
Re:HDMI (Score:2)
Not to mention the wonderful load times that would result.
HDMI replaced DVI (Score:5, Insightful)
One port (Score:2)
Component switches easily (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Component switches easily (Score:2)
Confusion is yours, though I understand why (Score:3, Interesting)
Not at all, I can understand your own confusion because typically those boxes are indeed built to switch composite + L/R audio signals.
However all a component (not composite) cable really is is a cable with three RCA connectors at either end. If you've ever looked at the combo cables that carry a composite signal on yellow plus red & white jacks for audio - they too have three RCA jacks on either end.
I have used said combo cable
Re:One port (Score:2)
Re:One port (Score:3, Funny)
Re:One port (Score:2)
Re:One port (Score:2)
My problem is that it's overkill. Why send audio down the same cable to the TV when most people just need to get video into the TV/Monitor, and sound is processed elsewhere? I'd rather dedicate a cable to each to maintain higher quality, not to mention ease in splitting. Sure, it's more cable, but it's really not that big a problem.
Not that I've seen (Score:2)
What proof do you have that ANY new HDTV units come without component input?
Re:Not that I've seen (Score:2)
Not growing if there are no deaths (Score:2)
so does that mean... (Score:4, Interesting)
although I don't agree with the idea of nudging users into purchasing a completely new unit every year or two, I strongly disagree with the need to constantly purchase add-ons for the system. (HD-DVD, new harddrive unit, perhaps hdmi, if M$ can figure out how to create an add-on for that).
m$ should realize that this is what happens when you release a console with the hopes of it having such a long lifespan; I believe microsoft wanted it to last 10 years? I know Sony wants the PS3 to last about that long.
I can't really offer a solution to this, except for having a completely upgradable system with plugin daughtercards... but then you just have a desktop computer, again.
ug. something tells me that videogames are starting to move into the lifetime-investment category... especially with this new trend of episodic content and purchased add-ons. it seems that everyone will keep re-purchasing everything (classic videogames, music in new formats, movies in new formats, and now hardware).
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Microsoft has done some dumb stuff with the 360 (like the $400 price, the split SKUs, and making the HD optional) but I don't think they are THAT dumb. I've seen various rumors around, such as that they will integrate the HD-DVD drive (and keep the price the same) but the HD-DVDs won't be used for games.
I could see them integrating the hard drive, upgrading it's capacity, or both. Perhaps you'll be able to have two (the integrated one, and an extra hanging off the side of the unit). I wouldn't be surprised
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2, Insightful)
This is the one guaranteed not to happen. Why? Because, the advantage to game developers of developing for a console over a PC is that you have a known system. You KNOW you're developing for a triple-core 3.2GHz G5 derivative. Now if they bump the speed to 4 GHz, you'd have to develop for two systems. One lower-quality game at 3.2 GHz, one higher-quality at 4. If a developer got lazy and only developed for the 4 GHz model, you'd have original 360 owners complaining a
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Microsoft has not ruled that out (Score:2)
I agree with the reasons you stated and think it's a bad idea, but don't think it's not being considered.
Re:so does that mean... (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, it's (sort of) happened. Get a sufficiently buggered Dual-layer game (for example, God of War), and a sufficiently old PS2 (Oct 2001).
Hilarity ensues.
Re:so does that mean... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, they'd have a PC... except that it would be completely proprietary and locked-down to only run licensed programs.
Make no mistake, this is actually Microsoft's and Sony's wet dream: to finally kill off that pesky "general-purpose" computer whose ability to run Free Software makes it so hard for them to abuse the sheeple more than they already do!
Sony's dream? (Score:2)
Hate to blow your rant but the PS3 is shipping with Linux installed.
Really.
Re:Sony's dream? (Score:3, Insightful)
PS2 Linux only became really usable when the users fixed it up. Sony didn't give a rat's ass about it.
Newer OS versions? (Score:2)
PS2 Linux only became really usable when the users fixed it up. Sony didn't give a rat's ass about it.
How do you know they do not this time? After all them seem to be more interested in this being an actual computer and that is the OS being shipped with it.
The fact that Sony is proceeding with it still in the next generation at least indicates they are not actively "against" Linux. How can you say they a
Re:Newer OS versions? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Newer OS versions? (Score:2)
If they do however, I shall be pleasantly surprised.
Re:Sony's dream? (Score:2)
Deal (Score:2)
If they do, I'll eat a metaphorical hat...
They have more motivation this round though (user generation content to sell via the sony online service) which is why I have more belief in it being useful this time.
Ignoring features (Score:2)
So what OS are they going to use? They have already publcly stated they will ship with Linux, so it simply is to late to go with other options.
Sure some features are up in the air. And the degree to which Sony will let the users customize the Linux the PS3 ships with is in question. But there's a very high probability that it at least is making use of Linux, and the original point about how Sony is a
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
*rolls eyes*
Here's a tip about the real world: If you take off the Slashdot blinders, the fact most people have never heard of open source, most people don't care about open source, and companies tend to have better motives for multibillion dollar investments than killing free software.
But feeding the Slashbot sheeple (to use your term) is a good way to get modded up, just as calling someone on it is a good way to get modded down.
*takes a deep bre
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
No, Microsoft and Sony have a good (for them) reason to do this: they would make money on licensing fees, just like they do with consoles. Do you have a reason (as opposed to a mere assertion) why they wouldn't want that?
By the way, I was using Free Software as an example, but this would apply to all third-party software that wasn't explicitly authorized.
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
So then it would be a mac.
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Sure, except that developers don't require a license from Apple to make programs that run on the Mac...
...oh wait, that makes it exactly the opposite of what I was talking about! Never mind.
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Well, why not? Sony is planning on it for the PS3 [next-gen.biz]. According to Ken Kutaragi: "I think a year from the launch we could indeed extend the configuration of the PS3. Why not!"
And we all know that Sony hasn't been making any bumbling moves with the PS3! If Sony does it, it must be a great idea!
</sarcasm> <!-- for the humor impared -->
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Faster Clocked processor and more RAM? No. Microsoft won't segment their game systems like that. They actually do talk to game developers.
Bigger HD? Yes. Bigger HD just means more storage. This won't affect game development. This happened with the original XBOX. They started with shipping
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
They didn't really want to release a new system when the genesis was doing just fine but they wanted to upgrade the gaming ability, so they release the SegaCD and 32x, both enhanced the Genesis gaming ability by a lot but as you said no one really bought them, to bad no one realized that's what it was, a Cheap upgrade into next gen, I never did find a SegaCD addon for sale but I did see a 32x when it was flushed down the crapper at Toys R u
HDMI has everything to do with core system (Score:2)
If you were talking straight DVI or VGA I would agree with you. Just a different kind of output.
But HDMI is altogether different. It requires a protected path for video from the moment it gets decoded, which happens inside the 360. The decoder must work in conjunction with the encryption module which then in turn sends the HDCP encrypted video over the HDMI cable. You can't just make an ada
Re:so does that mean... (Score:2)
well, what about NEC with the TurboGrafix16?
"HDCP protected" (Score:4, Informative)
All currently available HD DVD and the upcoming Blu-Ray titles are HDCP protected. When they're sent as a digital signal over HDMI or DVI to displays that support HDCP, they're encrypted. The Image Constraint Token (ICT)- part of the standard which halves the resolution when a movie is diplayed over unencrypted DVI or analog outputs- just hasn't been put to use yet, making HDCP non-mandatory.
Re:"HDCP protected" (Score:2)
Re:"HDCP protected" (Score:2)
Not if you do not use HDCP (Score:2)
That primarily means if you're going to buy a PS3, but the cheaper $500 model with no HDCP. When buying a display, make sure it supports 1080p via component input (the newer Samsung HDTV units among others).
Re:Not if you do not use HDCP (Score:2)
Okay, the PS3 part makes sense. But buying a display that supports 1080p via component doesn't help at all from a "marked penetration versus ICT implentation" standpoint if the display also supports DVI/HDMI/HDCP, which of course is the situation with any new Samsung HDTV (and virtually every other ne
Muddies the wtaers, also practical (Score:2)
I kind of agree with you but I meant that from the other side of the way you are looking at it - buy a device that supports component inputs (which is most of them right now). What I am assuming there
Re:Muddies the wtaers, also practical (Score:2)
I guarantee you that, assuming the format (and the war) continues, there will be HD-DVD players under $250 before the holiday season of 2007. It didn't take very long at all for DVD players to dip to that level and they started out even more expensive. The PS3 will have plenty of competition in terms of its movie-playing ability, in terms of both capability and price.
As for the ICT, I certainly
Re:"HDCP protected" (Score:2)
I thought Sony's movie studio reversed its position on this, in light of the non-HDMI enabled PS3 model?
Maybe (Score:2, Funny)
Huh (Score:3, Insightful)
Uhh...
I guess it makes sense if Zonk is compelled to publish any XBox 360 related news that comes in, but frankly, I don't find this very convincing.
Meanwhile, I thought it was pretty stupid and asinine that Sony split their market by making you buy an entire new $600 PS3 to upgrade your $500 PS3 to HDMI. I'm gonna consider it pretty stupid and asinine if Microsoft also splits their market by making you buy an entire new $400 XBox to upgrade your older $400 XBox to HDMI.
How split? At least they are up-front (Score:3, Insightful)
If you don't HAVE to use HDMI, why not avoid it and the DRM it entails? Device hookup to-date has been pretty thorny so unlike most digital connections it generally bri
Not suprising... but early adopters don't care (Score:1)
Almost enough to win me over (Score:1)
Last generation I would only buy a system that could play DVD's out of the box, so I only bought a PS2. I never saw one of those fancy DVD GC's in the stores. The generation before that I would only buy
Re:Almost enough to win me over (Score:2)
Re:Almost enough to win me over (Score:2)
95%+ of the game-buying public aren't. Most game buyers consider particular titles to be decision makers on the purchase of a console, not an unrelated feature.
"With the exception of the Saturn, this algorithm has served me well."
Except you're selectively ignoring your algorithm.
If you were truly following your "Must also play as much media as possible" rule, you would have gotten a Pioneer LaserActive to play your Genesis cartridge and CD-ROM games on, as well as lase
Re:Almost enough to win me over (Score:2)
>> With the exception of the Saturn, this algorithm has served me well.
well, 2/3, not exactly passing any statistical muster, hope it works for you.
What share of the market are you? (Score:2)
I bought a nice HDTV and I will only invest in a new system if it has both DVI/HDMI and HDDVD/BluRay. When CD's came out, I stopped buying cassettes. When DVD came out, I stopped buying VHS. I've already stopped buying DVD's and am saving my money for HD disks of any kind. I am a technophile, I can't help it.
Clearly you're the market for both MS's and Sony's new systems.
Those of us who haven't "invested" in an HDTV system basically look at those two products and say to ourselves, "Eh, the cost comes to
They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:5, Insightful)
But it does change how the games look on a nice 1080i or 1080p TV with DVI/HDMI.
Hopefully when they move to the smaller die the XBox 360's will run a little cooler and the fans won't be so loud. That's not "screwing over early adopters". They're taking advantage of new technology when it comes out. The XBox 360's that people have already bought won't lose features.
DVI was out well before the 360. There was no time excuse for not having DVI even HDMI in the more expensive Xbox360 model.
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
DVI was out well before the 360. There was no time excuse for not having DVI even HDMI in the more expensive Xbox360 model.
Welcome to the "bleeding edge". They call it that for a reason.
I waited almost a year and a half to buy an Xbox. By then the price had come down considerably, the early kinks/bugs had been worked out, there were a lot more (and better looking) games available for it, and it had already established
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
The only one I know of is Gran Turismo 4, and it cheated. No really, as I understand it they took a 480p image and upscaled it using a LOT of tricks, and the resolution changes between menus and gameplay, which results in a very annoying res change flicker on my tv for about 3 seconds.
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
Well, it looks to be true for the first year of it's life so far. No stores around here have any 1080p televisions, and the prices I've seen online are triple what I would call a mainstream price (e. g. you can get a 1080i CRT for <$800, you can't get any 1080p televisions for less than $2400). Why charge customers for supporting technology that simply isn't going to be adopted in the console's lifetime?
"I have PS2 game
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/index.php?aut
It might not have crazy high texture detail, it might not have insane amounts of polygons but GT4 on the PS2 is using the video out chip @ 1920x1080i resolution.
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
In defense of the previous poster, that game has been stretched from a 'high res' mode of 640x540 to a higher resolution, the game itself is not actually being rendered in HD (that is, it's being rendered with considerably less pixels).
By that standard you might say that running an old X-Box title on the 360 would make it HD.
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
The photo mode is fairly good I spose - it shows the console can do it well at least the video circuitry even if the cpu / gpu can't keep up.
P.S one could argue the X360 isn't able to do high definition, several titles are (rumoured to be) internally rendered at only 1024x576 and upscaled to 1280x720 or 1920x1080i.
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
Not true at all.
Actually, the OP was basically correct, by any practical definition.
I have a decent quality 50 inch Plasma (a Pioneer PDP-505XDE) and use it with both analog and digital inputs for HD content, there is no decernable difference in quality between using an RGP/VGA analog or DVI digital input.
This is also true of using a VGA connector over a DVI connector to connect to a display using a destkop or laptop computer, you don't
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
No, he's not. I have a nice 480i set from Toshiba with component inputs, and I can see the difference between component and s-video with any of my consoles. When all is said and done, component input is a digital input, compared to the analog signal of s-video and composite, and there is a lot to be said for keeping the output digital for as long as possible.
I'm not all that sure it
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
Also, between HDMI and component from my HD DVR, the colors look washed out at 480i/p over component compared to HDMI (when using the included 3 RCA cables). The picture looks fine at 720p/1080i over component or HDMI.
My fr
Re:They're not "screwing over early adopters" (Score:2)
You're right, they're screwing over themselves. (Score:2)
The entity being screwed over by this is Microsoft. People who are willing to wait a bit for a gaming system (hint: every single person left that Microsoft still wants to sell a 360 to) are going to see that they made the right decision by holding off, and wonder how quickly this new new 360 will be obsolete due to the r
HD(MI)-DVD (Score:2)
It's called "architecture" (Score:2)
That is why the 360 itself needs HDMI to be able to output an HDCP encrypted signal to an approved HD display device.
Now it will also work with current models using component outputs. That may not look quite as good but the differ
FYI for everyone out there who believes this crap (Score:2, Informative)
Re:FYI for everyone out there who believes this cr (Score:2)
Can't HDMI be added later? (Score:4, Interesting)
There is no separate VGA output. There's simply a cable you plug into a specialized port. I would imagine an HDMI cable would be a no-brainer.
I don't know enough about the hardware to know if a special motherboard is required for HDMI, but my guess is that it's not -- it's all in the cable. Maybe someone more adept can answer this question.
Re:Can't HDMI be added later? (Score:2)
There is no separate VGA output. There's simply a cable you plug into a specialized port. I would imagine an HDMI cable would be a no-brainer.
I've neither heard nor seen evidence that the Xbox 360 supports this. It's not just a question of whether
Re:Can't HDMI be added later? (Score:2)
NOTE: not my rumours, just stuff I've seen, iirc anandtech may have been one of the sites.
Re:Can't HDMI be added later? (Score:2)
How then does a digital signal leave that same port to later go through the optical audio cable? (Wait, SPDIF passthrough audio and video coming out of the same port... sounds like, um... HDMI)
All of you are guessing, and it's kinda annoying to see people fight about speculation and add their own.
It also wouldn't really make sense for MS to have HDMI capability in the current 360 but not offer a cable for it - do they want to make money or not?
Why doesn't i
You are missing the fundamentals of HDCP (Score:2)
The thing is such a thing is pointless to do. You are taking an analog signal, and converting what was digital back to digital... what you will not get is the original quality a true digital path would have provides, indeed you wou
Re:You are missing the fundamentals of HDCP (Score:2)
That depends. If the cable is electronically active, the digital signal could be transmitted on a side-band which was turned on by a firmware upgrade. In that case, MS could, indeed, provide a digital signal with the current hardware for those who wanted to buy a cable.
Not an encrypted channel (Score:2)
Re:Can't HDMI be added later? (Score:2)
Unfortunately, no. You can't just add a new cable end. The problem is the digital-analog conversion.
Currently the X360 has an analog-out AV port. Converting from analog to digital is tricky and expensive, hardware-wise (and not ideal anyways). If the AV port was digital, you could indeed just change out th
zonked tag (Score:2)
Humorously this time it backfired as people realized what a quagmire Microsoft if is if it starts signaling you can expect newer 360 models every six months. Should I buy now, or wait for the end of the upgrade cycle? Wlcome to the world of PC gaming as we know it today, poor console players! You thought you could buy a console and just use it for years without coughing up for upgrades?
Howev
looks... cramped (Score:3, Insightful)
So, whatever this is, I doubt it's going to be released to the market as-is. It's been suggested that the proprietary a/v jack might be able to support an HDMI adapter plugged into it, the HDMI port pictured might just be a lead-off from the proprietary plug for development purposes (the submitter said he saw a grand total of 3 such motherboards, and no mention of a shell).
Re:looks... cramped (Score:2)
VIDEO IN (Score:2)
Guess what I want VIDEO IN VIDEO IN VIDEO IN VIDEO IN VIDEO IN VIDEO IN!
PVR functionality would have won this generation, though Sony's PSX (Real PSX like $2000 machine) didn't sell well it was partially because that device was terribly crippled.
Also you can force your users to connect to the internet at least once a week, great for live or Sony.
HDMI on 1st gen 360s? (Score:3, Interesting)
Altering the motherboard design to include an HDMI port on the system itself is great, but doesn't the current Xbox 360 use a proprietary A/V-out port (through which your composite, s-video, component, optical audio,etc. are all passed)?
What's to stop MS from just releasing an HDMI video cable that goes through that same port, for the sake of all those without HDMI built in, as well as an XBL or other update to make it possible?
Re:HDMI on 1st gen 360s? (Score:2)
The AV port on the X360 is an analog port; HDMI is a digital connection. That's the problem. It requires more sophisticated hardware to add a D-A converter in there, and you'd get no quality difference (not that it is particularly noticeable between component and DVI, anwyays). So they can't just give us a new cab