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SUSE Linux Enterprise 10, a Closer Look 273

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the ready-aim-fire dept.
Tripperfish writes "Mad Penguin's Adam Doxtater has published an in-depth review of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10, Novell's alleged 'Vista Killer.' From the article: 'SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 is a very capable, industrial strength desktop which is ready to take on basic desktop chores in the corporate environment, and for the price you simply cannot go wrong. ' The review comes complete with screenshots and Flash movies of the install, new GNOME interface, and Beagle in action."
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SUSE Linux Enterprise 10, a Closer Look More

SUSE Linux Enterprise 10, a Closer Look

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  • Killer Mania! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by A Dafa Disciple ( 876967 ) * on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:40PM (#15685503) Homepage
    In no article I've seen has any writer actually suggested or "alleged" that SUSE Enterprise 10 is going to be a "Vista killer," as the story submitter (and transitively, /. editor) purported. Gotta love the FUD.

    You certainly wouldn't hear Novell utter those words. I believe that a company that's been around as long as they have has more sense than that and knows that the best they could ever hope for is "Vista competitor." It would be interesting to know just how much of a margin Novell would have to take of Microsoft's sales in order for them to consider the maneuver to be a success.

    On a side note, this "killer" stuff is getting way out of hand, with iPod killers [slashdot.org] and Flash killers [slashdot.org], and /. killers [digg.com], and YouTube killers [slashdot.org] and now apprently Vista killers...

    Please folks; enough with the killing.

    Can't we all just get along?

    • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:5, Funny)

      by ignipotentis ( 461249 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:47PM (#15685528)
      iRefuse to stop using these Xtreme references to killer things.

    • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:4, Funny)

      by kabz ( 770151 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:55PM (#15685562) Homepage Journal
      Don't forget the Google Killer ... [slashdot.org]

    • Another example (Score:5, Informative)

      by robogun ( 466062 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:22PM (#15685644)
      Mozilla = Mosaic Killer, dating from long before you ever pushed a mouse. Relax, it's an olde tradition.

    • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:27PM (#15685666)
      In no article I've seen has any writer actually suggested or "alleged" that SUSE Enterprise 10 is going to be a "Vista killer," as the story submitter (and transitively, /. editor) purported. Gotta love the FUD.

      I was under the impression that "FUD" stood for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt," and generally refers to a marketing strategy of spreading vague rumors and reports of defects in competing products.

      By contrast, calling this product a "Vista killer" seems to say more about how great SuSE's product will be, supposing it could, in fact, win significant marketshare away from Windows. Now, calling something an "X killer" is certainly a stupid remark, but it clearly doesn't fit the traditional definition of FUD as some kind of vague, unsubstantiated, rumors about flaws in a competing product.

      When did FUD switch from the classical definition to "any random stupid statement that Joe Slashdotter disagrees with"?
      • When did FUD switch from the classical definition to "any random stupid statement that Joe Slashdotter disagrees with"?

        Since it became a meme and almost everyone forgot what it stands for.
      • Perhaps, we can take the "FUD" that people like to associate with any exaggeration nowadays, blend it with "hyperbole" which is what a name like "Vista Killer" really is, and call it "FUDperbole."

        Of course, people who don't know where the accents go, might pronounce it "Fud-per-bowl", which might make it sound as if it's the U.S. championship of FUD.... little CGI bottles of FUD squaring off during the commercials...

        Okay, this is going way off course. It's pronounced FUD-per-bowl-ee. New cool haxor
      • Being called "Vista killer" this stuff might strike fear, uncertainty and doubt in Steve Ballmer :P
      • Same as fascist is rarely used accurately or even such phrases as "police state" or dictatorship.

        Language is a tool for war and in war you always take the biggest guns avaialble to you. FUD instead of hype, hype instead of exegerated claims, exegerated claims instead of marketting speak.

        It is a very old tradition.

      • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by pimpimpim ( 811140 )
        When did FUD switch from the classical definition to "any random stupid statement that Joe Slashdotter disagrees with"?

        Since it's the shortest word to type as a slashdot tag for these kind of articles. Been noticing its inappropriate use already for some time now in the tags. Am a big fan of the tagging system what the rest concerns.

    • Can't we all just get along?
      No.

    • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:5, Funny)

      by TheDreadSlashdotterD ( 966361 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:57PM (#15685743) Homepage
      Are you proposing a killer killer?

    • RTFA Re:Killer Mania! (Score:3, Informative)

      by daveb ( 4522 )
      In no article I've seen has any writer actually suggested or "alleged" that SUSE Enterprise 10 is going to be a "Vista killer," as the story submitter (and transitively, /. editor) purported. Gotta love the FUD.

      Take a look at this article. Yes it's crap - but this article DOES say that desktop 10 is taking on VISTA and aims to beat it.

      From TFA: " Novell, is angling to seize the day with the release of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10, a desktop OS geared to beat Vista in cost, manageability and feature

    • Why not? That 'trusted computing' in vista is like a cursed boots of slowness -35

      not to mention the cheezy 3-d desktop that lets you scroll 'side to side' to see stacked windows easier, all while doubling the power drain on a laptop.

      when you've got a fat bloated pig like vista, even suse 10 could easily be a vista killer.

      • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Planesdragon ( 210349 )
        Sheesh.

        Why not? That 'trusted computing' in vista is like a cursed boots of slowness -35

        Except that Vista doesn't include Trusted Computing. It has some DRM features, but not a heck of a lot more that you can get with Windows XP and the latest MS Media software. Oh, and if you don't use any DRM files, absolutely nothing DRM related runs.

        not to mention the cheezy 3-d desktop that lets you scroll 'side to side' to see stacked windows easier,

        Oh, yes, MS is certainly the first OS manufacturer to realize that

    • Re:Killer Mania! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by kojo88 ( 987759 )
      as an angry user of windows for the last 8 years (im only 17) i was very interested in testing the SUSE linux system as part of my work experience, i was amazed at how easy it is to use applications but there is still one downside- and that's installin software, i installed 4 different media players and none of them could open a mpeg file, i was very dissapointed, i also had to install drivers for a pci-e graphics card, that took me into all this coding stuff and while im not scared of that i still needed a
    • The fact is: This is indeed about killing. Novell killed SuSe as we knew it when gave their desktop strategist more say than market. SuSE Enterprise is a zombie distribution.

      Push-technologists from Ximian wanted to standardise SuSE on Gnome. Market never requested it. I like Gnome, I use it sometimes. But selling a SuSE with Gnome as default is like a holy shrine in a whorehouse. I don't like a Gnome SuSe.

      SuSE always had a reputation of a solid and easy distribution and followed a true and fair view. Suppor

  • Looks nice (Score:3, Insightful)

    by p!ssa ( 660270 ) * on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:51PM (#15685547)
    This does look like a nice desktop solution but I do not see any mass migrations to SLED in the enterprise. With the existing installed base of windows & apps in the companies I consult for, it will take alot more than this to replace the windows based systems. It is realtively easy to get some backend server moved over with proper justification but most dont want to disrupt the installed base of users with the change and associated complications, beside windows does not cost $300 dollars in the enterprise. Corporate licences are very reasonable and may even be cheaper in the ong run.
    • Does an install base of 14000 [techworld.com] classify as 'mass migration'? I don't know if they did Novell though. I've run NLD9, and I didn't like it, but fortunately, linux is about my choice - not someone else's. I found a distro I did like - actually several.. so did Munich. So will others.

    • Re:Looks nice (Score:5, Insightful)

      by porkThreeWays ( 895269 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @12:05AM (#15685760)
      This one release isn't going to be a Windows killer. However, consistant high quality releases like this over the next few years will definatly make a huge impact. It won't happen all at once. We'll just step back in 5 years and say "wow, linux has 20% desktop market share. When did this happen?".
      • I've been using Linux for more than 10 years now, and it always would take over the desktop in 5 years from now. Dream on boy/girl! I'm afraid it'll never happen.

        • Re:Looks nice (Score:4, Insightful)

          by dhasenan ( 758719 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @10:14AM (#15686774)
          I think that the current Linux geeks will end up spreading Linux to their families.

          Windows is opt-out, not opt-in; I think that, most of the time, people would prefer not to use Windows and the attendant expensive software bundle. Linux is an alternative, especially with systems like Ubuntu that take the pain out of administration.

          Basically, Windows isn't reaching new people; Linux is. Even if the market share for Linux in established markets grows very slowly, it has to beat Microsoft eventually. Not necessarily in my lifetime, but eventually.

          • Re:Looks nice (Score:4, Insightful)

            by tsa ( 15680 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @11:26AM (#15686970) Homepage
            I sure hope you're right. But remember it's all about the applications, not the OS. And if MS continues to have a stranglehold on the office suite market, nothing will change. Let's hope ODF continues to spread. Then we will see some change.

    • Re:Looks nice (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      but most dont want to disrupt the installed base of users with the change and associated complications
      I'd recommend NOT to deploy Office 2007 then...

    • What I hear... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Eric Damron ( 553630 )
      I hear a lot of discussion about the fact that the new Microsoft Office is so different from earlier versions and Vista is feared to be so locked down that most home grown applications will break or need major tweaking that alternatives like Suse Linux are being seriously considered.

    • Re:Looks nice (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ozmanjusri ( 601766 ) <aussie_bob@hoMOSCOWtmail.com minus city> on Sunday July 09, 2006 @06:09AM (#15686301) Journal
      This does look like a nice desktop solution but I do not see any mass migrations to SLED in the enterprise.

      I've just downloaded and installed it on a Centrino laptop, and I think any enterprise which does not consider it will be missing a major opportunity.

      It is a lot simpler to configure and use than XP, and the default install includes an intelligent selection of the best of open source and proprietary Linux software, from project planners to video editors. The install was as easy and quick as Doxtater suggests, and connection to our network was simple and seamless with both the wireless and wired LANs. I've only used the install for a couple of hours, but if anything, the reviewer has understated the usefulness of Beagle. When I selected text in Firefox to copy and paste here, the pop-up menu has a "Beagle" option which offers to find references to the text or the link

      In fact, the version I've downloaded (RC3) looks like it's a bit more recent than the version reviewed. On the desktop is a link to a "Quick Start Tour", which is a training package in html/flash that takes you through step-by-step instructions for all of the major components of the OS and applications. There's more than sixty courses there.

      The feel is much more polished than any other Linux distro I've used, and the interface is clear and consistent in use. OSX is prettier, but SLED 10 has a clean businesslike style which works well and is not intrusive. It definitely makes XP look old and clunky.

      Make no mistake, this is a landmark distro. For the first time, I'd feel confident about sitting an average computer user in front of a Linux distro and telling them to get started. The clean interface and built-in training mean that most would have less difficulty making the transition to SLED than they would from Win 2000 to XP.

    • With the existing installed base of windows & apps in the companies I consult for, it will take alot more than this to replace the windows based systems.

      Of course, if you were urging your customers to move their critical systems to web-based apps three years ago and had rolled those systems out last year, then your customers would be almost ready to cut the cord. And it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I have one customer...70 employeess, graphic arts oriented business...that could move their ent

  • Star Trek (Score:4, Funny)

    by uncoveror ( 570620 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:56PM (#15685565) Homepage
    They used Suse Linux on the Enterprise? I guess I never saw that episode.

  • Horrible article (Score:3, Insightful)

    by idesofmarch ( 730937 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:57PM (#15685570)
    Here is a clueless expert they trot out:

    Dave Morrill, Co-CEO of Assured Computing Technologies, a Bedford, N.H.-based system builder and solution provider, said he doesn't believe wide-scale migration from Microsoft to Linux will happen immediately, and customers who don't want to spring for Vista may simply stick with Windows XP rather than switch. However, Morrill said, once Microsoft stops supporting XP, it could be a different story. "At that point, you're going to see a shift and a loss of customers for Microsoft," he said.

    Say what? Microsoft isn't supporting NT 4 now. Are companies migrating en masse to Fedora 5 or whatever version it was in 2000? And I am sure that Novell is just chomping at the bit, waiting for 2011, when MS stops supporting XP.

    • Re:Horrible article (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:24PM (#15685654)
      NT 4 obviously isn't used as widely as XP (NT 5.1), when XP goes out companies which aren't using Windows-only software and don't want to buy lots of new hardware may well switch.

      Also NT 4 has been widely replaced with Linux; when NT 4 was in it's prime Linux and *BSD weren't viable choices.
      • By the time Windows XP Pro SP2 / SP3 / whatever the last SP is goes out of support, these companies should have upgraded their hardware due to the machines falling over dead. Microsoft will mainstream support and sale of XP to OEMs and retail for a year after Windows Vista is generally available. After that, it will enter extended support for businesses for another 5+ years. I think most of them will replace their machines with something that can run laps around Vista by 2013-14.

        It would be nice if they e

  • SLES/SLED (Score:5, Interesting)

    by itomato ( 91092 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @10:59PM (#15685576)
    I'm a Debian user. I have been working on a Graphic Arts-centric Debian distro for the better part of a year now, and much of what I have been working toward in the areas of usability and cohesion between system components seems to be in place with SLES 10 RC3.

    I have a SLES Admin job, and if we weren't sticking with 9 for support reasons (Dell is staying with 9 for the forseeable future 1Y+) I'd be excited to support 10.

    KDE is gone - practically erased from the experience. There is a QT4 interface control panel, and a few mentions of Kthis and Kthat, but you hardly ever see it. YaST (GUI) is GTK2/Mono, the Zen software manager is Mono, the Desktop is Gnome.

    The usability is almost there.. I give it until version 11, and if HP and Dell get behind it like they say they are, you can validate the 'Vista-killer' remark, no matter how stupid it is.. There will finally be two real alternatives for Intel desk/laptops: Leopard and SLED.

    • Re:SLES/SLED (Score:3, Informative)

      by metamatic ( 202216 )
      I find OpenSuSE (which SLED/SLES is based on) a bit of a mixed bag. YaST is still clunky and annoying. I wiped out Mono as the disease it is, and that took out Xen. I installed APT, and had a usable packaging system, now I just need to find aptitude or synaptic.

      It's a big improvement over SLES 9, though. At least YaST doesn't have terminal problems and lockup problems any more.

      • Re:SLES/SLED (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Muramasa ( 534108 )
        What advantages are there to SuSE if you hate YaST and rpm? Wouldn't you be better off just running Debian if you're installing apt in SuSE anyway?
    • You speak like having KDE/QT replaced with Gnome/GTK is a good thing?

      I think both desktops work and Beagle seems cool, but you know, .. ;D
    • The usability is almost there.. I give it until version 11, and if HP and Dell get behind it like they say they are, you can validate the 'Vista-killer' remark, no matter how stupid it is.. There will finally be two real alternatives for Intel desk/laptops: Leopard and SLED.

      While they may be alternatives, what really matters is what programs run on the desktop.

      For business, Office's lock will be hard to overcome unless OpenOffice or something else is made to work seamlessly with Office; then there are speci

  • Can We Just Grow Up Yet? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:01PM (#15685585) Homepage

    OK. I read the article. The replacement for the start menu is interesting (even if it is, in many ways, like the start menu in XP). I'm glad to see they like Beagle (which I haven't read much about). The fact that single sign-on works with Active Directory is also interesting. But that's not what I take away from the article.

    It was written by someone who has no hopes of ever being a journalist and should stop writing to try to convince people.

    After reading that article I don't want to try the new SUSE version. I probably wouldn't have if it was written well. But instead, I get an article that is mostly good with a few VERY odd bits thrown in. Like I was reading along about something on the second page or so and came across something along the lines of "... and Mac users (dirty rotten hippies all of 'em". Do you have ANY IDEA how much that makes me respect the author?

    That's stupid enough, but he then goes on later to talk about Spotlight and how everyone should try it and how great it is. Last I checked, there was only one way to use Spotlight: on a Mac.

    There are other little bits too. Like on the last page when he says that you don't have to worry next year when "Windows ME 2.0 is released" because Linux already has all the features. First, it doesn't. Biggest omission: DirectX 10. Now I know that's not the fault of anyone involved in Linux, but the statement is wrong. More importantly, it is a cheap shot.

    If the article was all fan-boy ravings, that would be one thing. If the article was all high-quality overview, that would be another. But the author can't seem to decide which of those he is. In fact, the author couldn't even decided to take a middle ground.

    This kind of stuff only hurts the community. I see next to no honest reviews of Linux. I tons of "Windows is dead!" reviews that just don't take everyday use into account for the average user. Here's a great OS. It's perfect for your little sister. But only one of her 12 games will run, that will take work. And you can't buy games for it so you are basically giving up playing commercial games on your computer. Yes, you can dual boot Windows and play games that way. What's that you say? So why bother with Linux?

    This kind of stuff is just juvenile. You can point out SUSE has features of Vista now without calling it "Windows ME 2.0". You can point out people use Macs without calling them all dirty hippies.

    And you can guarantee I'll never read an article off that site again.

    • Re:Can We Just Grow Up Yet? (Score:5, Informative)

      by alucinor ( 849600 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:25PM (#15685656) Journal
      So what kind of article were you expecting from a guy called "Mad Penguin"?

      Different strokes for differnent folks. I enjoy Mad Penguin's crazy style, and so do others. That's why we read him.
    • I'm glad to see they like Beagle (which I haven't read much about).

      Had you read a little bit about it, you would know that it was written by Nat Friedman and the Ximian team, which is now a part of Novell. So it makes some sense that they would "like" Beagle.



    • "There are other little bits too. Like on the last page when he
      says that you don't have to worry next year when "Windows ME 2.0
      is released" because Linux already has all the features. First,
      it doesn't. Biggest omission: DirectX 10."

      What?! Did you expect that DirectX in any version would EVER be
      included in ANY OS other than Windows?? Give me a break! That would
      be like trying to take a AMD CPU and somehow jamming it into a
      Pentium 4 only mother board. It ain't going to happen pal.

      'This kind of st

      • I'm not anymore, and this kind of stuff is why. I've been losing interest in Linux. I played with it much more a few years ago. It taught me my love of Unix, but I've found OS X which I consider the best of both worlds.

        That said, I still follow it, especially the kernel. I subscribe to LWN. I've learned TONS about operating system design and theory by following the developments in the Linux kernel for the past few years.

        Also, it's possible to be part of the Linux community without being a zealot.

        And I wa

  • Like a few people have already pointed out, I don't see mass migration towards Suse either.
    On the other hand, you have the Munich experience which are going to a homegrown red hat based solution, and there is also the big Ubuntu bubble building up.
    I don't see Suse easting up any kind of market no matter how much they improve it.

  • Novell's strategy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alucinor ( 849600 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:32PM (#15685674) Journal
    I think Novell's strategy with SLED isn't to bill it as a wholesale replacement for XP in the general desktop, but for "edge" workstations, like help desk people. I personally think it'd be great for a developer machine -- if you were a Java or Web developer, at least.

    But if they want to be successful at all, they'll need to nail these two things:

    1) Marketing
    2) Alleviating fears about training and support.

    And Novell has been known to suck at (1) -- and it's going to be all uphill for (2). But good luck to them, because we need more variety in computing to keep MS on their toes and valuing their developers more so that they actually have to compete on merits for a change.

  • Gnome Desktop? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xrayspx ( 13127 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:36PM (#15685684) Homepage
    One of the main reasons I stick with SuSE is because of bleeding edge KDE builds and bleeding edge builds of every KDE/QT based package (Amarok is very important to how I live). Is this going to be some kind of Grand Plan going forward, or is this "GNOME is easier for the average desktop user, so that's our Enterprise desktop product" because KDE has too much customization for the corporate desktop? Give SuSE's history with KDE, I would really hate to see them fall out of the K mainstream. I don't think I could live with GNOME's limitations on my customization of my own experience, it's very important to me that I can make my desktops do exactly what I want them to do for the way that I do my job.

    I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop when Novell bought out Ximian, is this that shoe?

    • Re:Gnome Desktop? (Score:2, Informative)

      by TheSenori ( 947444 )
      Gnome is default only in the enterprise releases, and that probably owes a great deal to how many Gnome developers they got from Ximian (it's easier to pay someone you already hire to do something than to hire someone entirely new). openSUSE will continue to keep the whole bleeding-edge KDE thing, because many desktop users desire that.

    • Re:Gnome Desktop? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ClamIAm ( 926466 )
      is this "GNOME is easier for the average desktop user, so that's our Enterprise desktop product" because KDE has too much customization for the corporate desktop?

      More != better. For example, look at Konqueror. The default setup has 17 buttons sitting on the toolbar. Then there are the menu names. We have "Location" and "go". Then there's "tools" and "settings". I guess the guiding philosophy here is "if you haven't solved the problem, just add more".

  • Wireless? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jeffkjo1 ( 663413 ) on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:42PM (#15685698) Homepage
    Where is SuSE's wireless support? I like SuSE, but am on an encrypted 802.11g network with a wireless card with a broadcom chipset... I know it's broadcom's problem the chipset isn't open, but I can't use SuSE without wireless support.
    • I know more than a few people who have use NdisWrapper [wikipedia.org] to overcome your problem, though I don't know your specific situation.

    • Re:Wireless? (Score:2, Informative)

      by chmod a+x mojo ( 965286 )
      Haven't you heard of the incredible "hack" known as ndiswrapper? i am replying on my laptop with builtin broadcom airforce one 54g. as far as i know there is no support for broadcom chipsets in ANY non-windows OS

  • Running it Now (Score:5, Interesting)

    by G Money ( 12364 ) * on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:56PM (#15685739) Homepage
    I've been on the beta the entire time and I have to say that I'm very happy with what they've done. Yes, I work quite a bit with Novell so I'm biased but having tried to support desktop Linux deployments using other solutions has been miserable. The amount of time and money that's gone into making SLED 10 enterprise ready is impressive. They even have an intro video with clips for all the major pieces of the desktop for helping new users (similar to the Windows XP new user intro) so that it's as easy as possible for new users to get up and running. The gnome menu interface is very slick with the beagle integration and the end result is a very clean desktop. For anyone who is interested in trying it out you can get it from Novell [novell.com] (you have to fill out a survey first). I highly recommend just giving it a try to at least see what Novell's been up to.

  • Some important points missed in the article (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 08, 2006 @11:56PM (#15685741)
    Always take these kind of reviews with a grain of salt. It just isn't possible to get a feel for a system after using it for just a couple of weeks.

    1. Package management is very important. Can the package manager automatically handle conflicts and upgrade as many packages as possible without screwing up? Will I have to use some weird command line incantation like "yum --resolve-pkgs xyz-1.0 -f -v -qr ~/.yumrc" when things go wrong or something equally horrible?
    2. Is it forward compatible? That is, does SUSE have an equivalent to "apt-get dist-upgrade"?
    3. Where are the DROP SHADOWS?!? The screenshots show the Compiz WM presumably running on Xgl, so there should be drop shadows in there.
    4. Since the WM used is Compiz it means you have lots of cute effects, like wobbly windows, transparency and shadows. It also means you don't have all the useful features that a mature WM like Metacity has; like proper workspaces (the desktop cube isn't fully developed yet last I looked at it), accessability options, lots of different themes to choose from, configurable keybindings etc.
    5. Why Gnome 2.12? Gnome 2.12 wasn't a very good release for me, speed wise it was a noticable regression from 2.10. Thankfully most of those regressions have been fixed in 2.14 so I'm very surprised to hear about this SUSE shipping with 2.12. One would hope that the upgrade path to 2.14 would be smooth and painless, see point 2.

    In short, SUSE 10 has some very exciting new features, Windows-like start menu, Beage integration, very good looking icon set and Xgl. But I doubt it is a Vista killer or even an Ubuntu killer because of the aforementioned points. I'll stick with Ubuntu, but I really hope that the Ubuntu devs will copy all the cool features from SUSE 10.

    • Answers to your points (Score:3, Informative)

      by Sits ( 117492 )
      I am not a regular SUSE user but I have used SUSE in the past and as an administrator at a site with a small (few 100) Linux desktops I have recently been testing SUSE 10.1 as the site has always used SUSE.

      Take all of these replies with a grain of salt. I haven't filed problems in Novell's bugzilla [novell.com] and anyone complaining about things but not filing bugs probably isn't interested in helping to make things better.

      1. Package management. This is a curious one as Yast's dep solving seems to now be done by the No

  • Gnome 2.14 and xorg 7.x?? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by saleenS281 ( 859657 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @12:33AM (#15685813) Homepage
    I can't believe they aren't going to use gnome 2.14 and xorg 7.x. In my experience, both have made linux incredibly MORE responsive. I haven't used SLED10 yet so I can't compare to gentoo with the above, but I know moving from 2.12 and xorg 6.x it was 100% different as far as responsiveness on my *older* laptop (PIII 850/192MB/ram).
    • The only difference between Xorg 6.9 and 7.0 is the build system, 6.9 is old style monolithic, and 7.0 is modular, though the binaries produced are exactly the same.

  • wrong one. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lally Singh ( 3427 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @12:48AM (#15685837) Journal
    The actual OS that will kill Vista will be Windows XP.

    Nobody will upgrade via actual choice, just having it on their new computers, as forced by their hardware vendor. And that doesn't actually get MS any more money for developing Vista over XP (unless they raise prices).

  • Vista killer? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by QuantumFTL ( 197300 ) * on Sunday July 09, 2006 @12:52AM (#15685843)
    I don't think there will be a Windows-killer until someone figures out a (legal or economic) way to get around Microsoft's network effect [wikipedia.org]. It is an unfortunate fact that for many people (but not all), much of an OS's value is extrinsic - derived from the use of that same software/supported standards by others. Because MS intentionally destroys interoperability with others, and because it is the de facto standard for many things (but certainly not all), an alternative OS/software system (like OpenOffice) would have to have much higher intrinsic value to make up for the reduced extrinsic value.

    Wake me up when this happens, I'll buy everyone a drink.
    • There are many smaller networks and a few large networks. They all look like one network because Windows is so prevalent globally which creates the illusion of a larger network than really exists. Linux has been adopted like gang busters within certain networks. These networks are eating away at the edges of the larger networks causing them to fragment.

      Education and Government are two such networks that are starting to break away, or at least diversify. Either way it will reduce the effect for other secto

  • Please, cut the "killer" nonsense (Score:4, Interesting)

    by massysett ( 910130 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @01:09AM (#15685872) Homepage
    I checked out the article linked to the words "Vista killer." The word "killer" appears nowhere in the article, leaving me to wonder: "Vista killer" alleged by whom? We Linux users are hopeful, but not stupid. The article does compare Vista and SUSE, but and the summary's vague "alleged" without support, coupled with a quotation from an unknown and possibly imaginary source, strikes me as distortion.

  • SLED still has a long way to go... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jack Johnson ( 836341 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @01:14AM (#15685886)
    I work in a shop with a lot of Novell in the backend, eDir, GroupWise, ZEN and now SLES.

    My primary boxes run SuSE 10 OSS and SLED and at least 5 production boxes have been switched to SLES.

    Fact is, SLED while certainly an improvement on what has come before it still isn't smooth enough for us. The Novell client is flaky, the various SuSE network config scrips don't play well with secondary DNS suffixes and simple things like the various pack-in apps don't work properly out of the box. Also, while not a SuSE issue specifically, WordPerfect support in OpenOffice is horrible. You might think "So what?" but the schools systems and government offices that run Novell are quite often running the WordPerfect Suite as well.

    (Up until this year the WPO cost in volume licensing was insignifigant relative to that of MSO. WP is enjoying a false sense of security right now since MSO 07 was delayed.)

    Now, if SLED isn't good enough to convince existing customers who are already fairly pro-Novell and pro-Linux what hope is there is convert the rest of the world?

    The feature set is fine as it is. Novell/SuSE need stop adding new crap and increasing the major version number. Instead they should be polishing what they have and refining those everyday apps that the "users" actually care about.

  • Umm... the reviewer missed XGL? (Score:3, Informative)

    by vbillings ( 967901 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @02:12AM (#15685993) Homepage

    The reviewer totally spaced off the coolest part of SLED, seamless support for XGL. SLED has an XGL configurator built into the control panel. It even makes installing vga drivers easy on Linux for once, no mucking with the xorg.conf to get dual monitors or XGL working.

    Seriously, if you like eye candy, Linux has never had it better. This will even impress the guys using a Mac. Remember how cool it was to play with the Dock the first time? This is like that only better.

    If you could care less for eye candy but like the productivity boost of Apple's Expose, then you need to look into SLED. If you like accessability, XGL does zoom better than any other desktop, even Windows. No other distro has XGL like SLED does since Novell sponsored its development. http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/ [novell.com] Its hard for me to believe that this guy missed that in his review.

    I don't think that SLED 10 is a Vista killer, but it does make Desktop linux look good even to Windows fanboys. Seriously, give XGL on SLED a look.

  • ...I do really enjoy running Suse. I'm running 10.0 on my desktop and it is sweet. I wanted to run 10.1 but had problems right at the end when SaX2 tried to setup my video. It locked the system hard and the only way I could get out was to power it down. :-(

    I guess no OS is perfect. I did install Suse 10.1 on my old HP Pavilion laptop and it went perfectly. The author is correct. The OS is VERY impressive. And if anyone has a suggestion about how to get it to work on my desk top I would love to hear i

  • Real Vista Killer! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by kahrytan ( 913147 )
    The real Vista killer is not SUSE Enterprise but it's OSX ported to the Windows Platform. Apple has what it takes to do it but they simply refuse to because they want people to buy their hardware.

  • FYI (Score:3, Informative)

    by rinkjustice ( 24156 ) <rinkjustice@NO_S ... m ['roc' in gap]> on Sunday July 09, 2006 @07:19AM (#15686411) Homepage Journal
    You can download SUSE Linux 10.2 Alpha 1 here. [opensuse.org]

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday July 09, 2006 @07:57AM (#15686463)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

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