AMD-ATI Merger on the Way? 215
miketronics writes "Forbes.com is reporting the possibility of a merger between industry heavyweights AMD and ATI. This is largely based on a 'prediction on recent checks in the PC food chain' by industry analyst Apjit Walia. A move like this might give AMD some leverage over Intel, who has been slashing prices lately to compete with a major surge in AMD popularity in both the home and server markets. Despite AMD's recent gains Intel still has a dominant market share and consumers have high hopes for their upcoming Conroe processors."
Why not Nvidia (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as I am concerned, ATI is evil.
Their customer service USED to be excellent, better than other video card vendors. Unfortunately when DiamondMM lost the first video card wars and ATI got really huge, their driver quality sank very quickly and their customer service went from the best to quite possibly the worst - worse than even generic video card companies like Jaton. Not only that, they went from being quite supportive of X to being downright hostile (this change took place right around the time they bought up the charred corpse of Diamond) and REFUSED to disclose info to Linux developers, taking on the "proprietary intellectual property" mantra that Diamond used to love to chant. As if releasing "register c8e3 does foo" is going to reveal how you developed your chip mask. Idiots. Just release the map already, okay?
ATI's drivers have become more stable in the last couple of years on the Windows side, and they've become slightly less evil in the Linux world by releasing (partially-functional - no 3D - WTF? No Radeon 7500 support? WTF!) binary drivers for X and register maps for older products, but they still have an extremely long way to go before I will consider buying any ATI products. Hell, they STILL haven't ever released a driver which will enable the tuner on any of my ATI tuner or All in Wonder cards on Linux. Even worse, the open source driver (on supported cards) significantly outperforms the proprietary driver on several systems I've tested. Also, I've never managed to get GL117 to run on ANY ATI card, but NO problems on NVidia or even Screw ATI.
If AMD teams up with ATI, not only will I avoid ATI products, but I will also stick with Intel processors. Besides, with Intel's new cores, it's Intel's turn to babystep back into the lead again for a while. I think it's more likely that ATI's evil would rub off on AMD, and ATI would not improve any.
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Welcome, AMDATI. Or, is it "AMDEVIL"?
Or, if they do it backwars, Itamada, or Livedma.
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Itamada
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Agreed. I tried to get the DVD player to work on my T43 Thinkpad. Downloading proprietary ATI drivers and trying to get them to work cost me a day of frustration. I eventually got image, but terribly low framerate and artifacts. Once I went back to the open source Rade
On the other hand... (Score:2)
Stuck with the binary-only drivers.
ATI's binary driver may be pure shit (as far as I've heard from other users) but
- there's some opensource DRI [freedesktop.org] support.
- there're some reverse engeneering efforts [sf.net] done to support more recent cards.
So, monomaniac opensrouce zealot, like myself, are more likely to be happy from a merger between those to companies.
Also didn't ATI have plans to use HyperTransport for their graphic chips as opposed to nVidia only using it for
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
However, to counter your troll
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Otherwise, you've got sort-of acceleration compared to Windows.
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
AMD's non-evilness? (Score:2)
Didn't their CEO go to Microsoft's antitrust trial to testify that the government should stop picking on poor Microsoft?
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
$ glxgears -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:5, Insightful)
Because nVIDIA isn't a three-letter acronym starting with A*, which is probably this analyst's rationale for starting this pump-and-dump "prediction".
*A for "analyst", which of course starts with "anal".
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:5, Insightful)
That, or perhaps AMD is seeking to relieve themselves of their dependance on NVidia, and it has become quite obvious that VIA is no longer a player in the motherboard battle. AMD Could be looking to expand their performance by making an AMD motherboard that actually is worth the silicon it's made on - just as Intel's best boards use Intel north and south bridges.
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
I don't think it's wise to buy either of them... But, if you had to pick one, nVidia is way too expensive for what you get.
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Seriously, either ATI or NVidia works.
As to AMD doing a submarine on ATI chipsets, that would be braindead. It makes so much better sense to just make the chipsets that support Intel chips more expensive. Then every time Intel nets $30 on a processor, you net $30 on a chipset. And you get market preference by being the CPU with the cheaper average motherboard. Add to that: open the interface and you win in serverland where Linux is king. Add the synergy
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:4, Funny)
He's forward thinking.
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
There is a reason for all the stupidity at ATI. ATI's linux drivers are all ports of their server card driver products. Since ATI doesn't want graphics workstation people buying cheap desktop cards, 3-D support only works on their cards aimed at the workstation market.
Long term, i think the strategy will backfire, because intentionally providing crippled drivers to extort more money from your customers creates resentment. Especially since the difference between a workstation card and a 3-d gaming card is e
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Im personally not for this as an AMD stock holder myself. What does AMD gain? I like their focus on CPUs. This would just make them a bigger company, but nore more profitable or anyt
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
in that case, ati would primarily benefit from fab capabilities, and scavanging any engineering talent if they can deal with the language barriers. via would benefit from having better, more stable chipset degigns that could revive the via brand... anyways, with the wa
Re:Why not Nvidia (Score:2)
Uh oh... (Score:5, Funny)
Very unlikely, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
The only problem with that is that the only people who care what kind of video they have are gamers and most gamers have gotten too pissed off at ATI to even fuck with them again. I decided to give them a try after literally years of never even considering an ATI card - the last ATI-powered card I had was a Mach64CT. But, I went ahead and bought a Radeon 9600XT AGP8x and BOY DO I REGRET IT. My system was fully patched, and I downloaded the very latest drivers from ATI, installed them, and bluescreened. So,
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Oh, and when the drivers were outdated by one r
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
I had the same problem when 2 and a half years ago, I moved to the 9600, and had immense BSOD problems (more when I was using the
Now I am havign similar problems with my new system based on a ATI chipset and a 1800XL GPU, and am looking at changing the powersupply again.
It seems that although in general the ATI chips run with a low power, they surge sometimes with really tricky stuff,
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
Granted, this wasn't the CEO talking, of course. And someone might argue that graphics processors are still processors.
Re:Very unlikely, but... (Score:2)
oh wait...
quick question (Score:5, Funny)
Re:quick question (Score:4, Funny)
Actually: (Score:2)
50.000... (repeating)
Re:quick question (Score:4, Interesting)
Celerons sucked so much (they were still PII-based at that time, IIRC), but I didn't want to shell out for a real Pentium... then along came Duron, a line of chips that not only outperformed the Celerons by a large margin (and often at much lower clock speeds!), but were also FAR cheaper. Hell, there was a year or so there when one could buy a high-clocked Duron that would benchmark higher than many of the actual Pentium chips, and at budget-chip prices!
Since Intel has yet to really exceed AMD in the price/value ratio since that time (though they are supposedly closing the gap when it comes to high-end chips), I've stuck with AMD. I imagine that they won over lots of other people at that time, as well--especially those who pay attention to these kinds of things (geeks).
Re:quick question (Score:2)
What would be a troll? If I were to say that ATI's CEO goes to thailand and fucks little boys (I'm not saying he does, I don't even know the CEO's name) without basis/proof, then that would be a troll (and libel on top of that). If I said his wife is a tramp, tha
this merger would throtle Intels sales because... (Score:5, Interesting)
*IF* AMD bought ATI they could immediately can the ATI Intel motherboard line and deliver a big blow to intel's profitability for the next quarter or two.
Re:this merger would throtle Intels sales because. (Score:2)
now if they bought ATI and canned them completely
Re:this merger would throtle Intels sales because. (Score:2)
I actually see it as a smart move. I know ALOT of people who don't take AMD seriously because AMD doe
Re:this merger would throtle Intels sales because. (Score:2)
Re:this merger would throtle Intels sales because. (Score:2)
The most prevailing condition being: are you in a monopoly position in your market, or in the market of the company you are purchasing? If the answer is (in the case) glaringly obviously NO, then there is no anti-competitive charge that can be levied. They are acting in order to preserve what little market share their dominant "partner"
Re:this merger would throtle Intels sales because. (Score:2)
Re:this merger would throtle Intels sales because. (Score:2)
It would, however, be smart to make your competitor dependent on your chipsets. Then you get lots of small knobs to twist and produce interesting effects. Of course, Intel wouldn't like that and will have to revamp its chipset produ
Doesn't make sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Nvidia's founder worked at AMD in the 80s and the 2 companies have a pretty close relationship. I can see a merger with Nvidia making sense, but buying ATI would be a blunder.
Re:Doesn't make sense (Score:3, Insightful)
amd sees a strong perspective in the mobile market and that's where ati rocks right now with their new chipsets and integrated or dedicated graphics chips.
if amd really is planning this move, then there's far more to it than "oh ati makes great graphic cards" or "let's now bash intel with it". it's a multi billion dollar business and nobody makes decisions based on "oh"-s. maybe amd knows something about ati that we don't ?
Re:Doesn't make sense (Score:2)
I think the next generation would be a CPU + GPU kinda like FPU's of the 90's. Killing the entire bus would offer amazing performance but it also involves a very close partnership. Now that GPU's are really gaining popularity and die size is really small/efficient maybe getting rid of the Graphics Card as we know it would be benificial from a power consumption point of view as well?
Then
Can't see it happening... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't see it happening... (Score:2)
That said, I think an AMD/NVidia merger would far more likely if such a thing ever were to occur, as they seem to function in a similar manner.
Re:Can't see it happening... (Score:2)
I've always been partial to them since they're well supported under
Linux (thank you Intel for making your hardware specs publically available).
Re:Can't see it happening... (Score:2)
Neither AMD nor ATI have been known for their ability to make chipsets that don't Totally Suck, and being the leader in a particular market isn't something that a company will just let go of because of a grudge.
Re:Can't see it happening... (Score:2)
ATI's RD580 chipset has been getting glowing reviews pretty much across the board as being the fastest dual x16 performance you can get. You can agree with that or not, but that definitely qualifies it for "doesn't Totally Suck".
And, Intel making Intel-brand boards with ATI chipsets is also a strong
Re:Can't see it happening... (Score:2)
I kind of have to agree with your second one too, in that getting Intel's blessing is usually a pretty good sign. But even if with some value they won't necessarily crank anything out worth buying o
Re:Can't see it happening... (Score:2, Insightful)
Console control? (Score:2)
I hope not (Score:2)
Secondly, with many decent AMD motherboards using nForce chipsets, this sounds rather doubtful and could, if it goes through, potentially cause all sorts of competition/anti-trust issues.
Re:I hope not (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I hope not (Score:2)
Re:I hope not (Score:2)
What's with all the "Merge with nVidia instead" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's with all the "Merge with nVidia instead" (Score:3, Funny)
Don't forget all of those Solaris/Matrox boxes filling the shelves at Best Buy.
...
Made you look! :P
Re:What's with all the "Merge with nVidia instead" (Score:2)
Pump and dump... ATI up 9% on the rumor (Score:5, Insightful)
Looks like the analyst needed to justify his price upgrade so he started the rumor.
When do analysts get it right? (Score:2)
This is just so much crap by people wanting to ride the gravy train, and people who want to be able to point to analysts' reports because they are afraid of being accused of making a wrong decision.
The relationship between analysts and people who pay for their conclusions is like mutual masturbation...
Re:When do analysts get it right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Everything I have personally read on every tech/hardware/overclocking/etc site about Conroe has been about the chips slaughtering AMD's top FX chips. The core line has got a LOT of people excited. Intel's finally given up on Netburst, Intel is finally fighting back against AMD, Intel is ready to reclaim the desktop, etc. People who, you know, actually read all that stuff are consumers too you know. Tech is one of the most popular and active subjects on
Re:When do analysts get it right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:When do analysts get it right? (Score:3, Insightful)
When you dance with the devil (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:When you dance with the devil (Score:2)
Re:When you dance with the devil (Score:2)
Let me tell you the little story of the K6-2 that could: It was a dark a stormy night in 1999, and a new computer was being wraught forth in the dark dungeon which, by day, served a bedroom for a young kid who liked to play with hardware. Upon flipping the switch, the entire world sprung to life with colors! One power supply supply later, the creation was complete, and served admirably under brutal working conditions for the next several years.
Upon being handed down to the previous
Re:When you dance with the devil (Score:2)
S.H. "C'mon Satan, let's fuck..."
Satan: "All you ever wanna do is fuck. You don't really love me...."
Oh, you were talking about DANcing, hot LAYing...
I think it's the As. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I think it's the As. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I think it's the As. (Score:2)
But ATI is Canadian.
Their drivers probably suck because they drink too much Molson.
Re:I think it's the As. (Score:2)
Don't all right-thinking Americans?
Consumers Don't care (Score:2, Interesting)
Ike
Re:Consumers Don't care (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Consumers Don't care (Score:2)
AMD is great (Score:3, Interesting)
The Pentium M OTOH has a very good design. Thanks to that Intel still dominates the portable market. Maybe they can revive their strength on the desktop side as well now.
Company Name (Score:2)
A CPU for GPGPU? (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple/Intel/ATI implications? (Score:2, Interesting)
I want to be an analyst! (Score:5, Funny)
ati revenge (Score:3, Interesting)
i dont know why people talk so bad about ati products, meanly at these times.
I allways had nvidia boards and yes , i liked it because their support on linux started very well (easy install), but their prices now, start to grow against their quality.
so, a few months ago i buyed a cheap ATI and tried to install it, downloaded the drivers from the website.
At the time, there are many tutorials about how to install 3d on ati chips and if you see well, the procedures are very similar to nvidia chips installation.
on debian based systems, with a few apt commands only, in a few minutes you have 3d acceleration on X.
in my case, the 3d performance on games even outperform the equivalent nvidia chipsets. So, where is the complication?
and if you do a "lsmod | grep fglrx" you realize the driver itself use only 1/2 MB of memory against the several MBs of nvidia driver.
so where is the relation quality / performance / price here?
If ATI join AMD, they could put the gfx cpu inside amd cpu and even make a custom main board for their specific product. There are a lot of choices.
http://www.codingheaven.net/ [codingheaven.net]Computing Resource
finally!! (Score:2)
Stock Markets Say No (Score:2)
Both companies fail this test.
That does not mean it's not happening. But when there's plenty of money to be made on some privileged information, history is full of people who take advantage of it.
If one of the two is shopping for a merger, then that too would be reflected in the price of their stoc
Not an ATI fangirl, but I do like ATI... (Score:2, Funny)
This isn't even good speculation (Score:2, Insightful)
Duh.
Re:lol... (Score:2)
Re:We could get closer to FOSS driver... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm confused.
How does documenting a register map, or even opening the source for drivers even, reveal the chip ma
Re:We could get closer to FOSS driver... (Score:2)
Sheesh. Spoken like someone who has never disassembled ('decompilers' don't exist to any useful extent for machine-compiled languages) a significantly co
Re:Just great. Unstable CPU drivers? (Score:2)
As it is, ATI has already phased all Radeons prior to the 8500 out of their proprietary driver. Running an 8500 or 9500 and 7500 side by side for dual he