The Challenges of A DVR Service 134
ChelleChelle writes "'The two burdens that are probably most annoying to the user are a complex and difficult control interface and lack of reliability.' So says TiVo cofounder Jim Burton as he describes the challenges of designing and delivering an easy-to-use yet highly effective and reliable DVR service. The article is quite broad in focus, providing information on the design aspects of TiVo (hardware, security, source code, etc) yet also taking into consideration the human element, with a large section devoted to service design principles. Overall, a good read for anyone interested in purpose-built systems." Update: 04/21 18:54 GMT by Z : Tim Burton no longer cofounding Tivo.
Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:5, Informative)
From the blurb: "So says TiVo cofounder Tim Burton" From the article: "by Jim Barton, TiVo". Jim Barton is not the director of Batman [wikipedia.org].
Re:Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:2)
I think we should rename him to PrivateBurrito
Re:Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:5, Funny)
I just can't believe you people.
Re:Tim Burton != Jim Barton (Score:1, Informative)
Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nope (Score:1)
Re:Nope (Score:2)
Re:Nope (Score:1)
Copyright law & piracy prevention...
I know that there are some people who probably won't mind distributing their own content without restrictions, but remember that many people are trying to make money off what they create. If the distribution of their content isn't protected DRM, then they can't really maximize their profit.
So yes, from a purely technical point of view, nothing
Re:Nope (Score:2)
Then again, it never stopped Hollywood.
Seriously now. I am in the content biz. Just like many other programmers. So yes, I know what it's like to create content and watch it being pirated. Not a nice feeling.
My main motivation to create content, though, is that I enjoy having people use it. I like seeing my product being used and enjoyed. I like it when I see that one of my product makes them happy. So that's my reason to provide the programs.
Getting money out of
Re:Nope (Score:1, Funny)
Tim Burton (Score:1)
It's minor but I need... (Score:1)
Re:It's minor but I need... (Score:1)
For OS X or Linux (unless you need IPv6), try Galleon [galleon.tv]. I use it on an Ubuntu box and it works like a charm. I use it to backup recordings and listen to music on my TV. The only downside is you can't watch your recordings on the computer or burn them to DVD. I believe mplayer has some kind of tivo function, but I've never played with it as I have little desire to watch TV on my computer.
I *heart* my TiVos (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
Hey, at least I don't keep using 'M$'. Cuz, you know, that dollar sign in place of the 'S' is SOOOO clever...
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:3, Interesting)
I said the EXACT same thing - until I moved to HD. See my post above.
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:3, Interesting)
I said the EXACT same thing - until I moved to HD. See my post above.
I have Hi-def. I occasionally watch it on the other tuner, but if I have to make a choice between TiVo and Hi-Def, there isn't even a contest. It's all about commercial skip and timeshifting at my house.
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
And I am not trying to beat you up because I was in your exact shoes less than 8 months ago. I relented and wound up getting the Cable co DVR (motorola) and it just barely works. But it does fast-forward and skip ahead reasonably well (ie: no better/worse than my Tivo).
Everybody can do what they want but honestly, I don't want some hodge-podge mix and match of components just so I can DVR ALL of the channels I receive. The te
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
And I am not trying to beat you up because I was in your exact shoes less than 8 months ago. I relented and wound up getting the Cable co DVR (motorola) and it just barely works. But it does fast-forward and skip ahead reasonably well (ie: no better/worse than my Tivo).
Hell, I even have a CableCard in my TV right now. In theory, if Tivo had their box available tommorrow -- I could use a Series 3 Tivo.
Oh, I'm right there with you. I'd muc
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
Oh, wait a minute. I've got a HD TiVo. Sadly, DirecTV has forced me to have a bastard stepchild of a real stand alone TiVo, but it is a TiVo. And it's hacked.
Still, with the exception of Football (which I only watch live), I could give up HD to keep my TiVo. I might feel different when I upgrade from my 51"RP set to the planned 133" FP setup, but given the de
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
Go with the front projection. Seriously.
I have a 7' wide 16:9 screen, with a HD DLP projector, attached to a HD10-250 DirecTV receiver. I'm *VERY* pleased with it.
I was with a friend at Best Buy a few days ago, and we were walking through looking at TV's. All I could realy say about any of them was "oh how cute, it's so small." That was in the big screen LCD and Plasma area. They had a projector display, but their projectors were all out of adjustment. It's
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
Re:I *heart* my TiVos (Score:2)
I've already gone through the whole hacking thing. I have a upgraded HDVR2 in the bedroom, a standalone series 2 TiVo with a regular receiver in the computer, and a standalone series 1 TiVo in the kids room. The only thing that I'd like to get out of the HR10-250 is being able to use the internet for updates, so I can ditch the damned phone line. It's fun
Reliability (Score:4, Interesting)
I am willing to work around its quirks because of all the upside (it doesn't crash *that* often), but I suspect a less geeky user would simply drop kick the thing out the door. Reliability needs to be the number one concern when creating a device that works in the background like DVRs do. It is very annoying to find the programs you thought you recorded missing because it locked up Wednesday night...
Automatically detecting when my cable company reassings the stations would be nice too.
Re:Reliability (Score:1)
You don't expect a VCR to crash, but a DVR crashes (just yesterday, I had to "reboot" mine 4 TIMES!) Cars are getting "smarter" - have you looked at a Prius?
All the stuff around our house are on the verge of being replaced with "smarter" versions.
There will come a day when our microwave, phone, TV, or even our house crashes and needs to be rebooted.
Re:Reliability (Score:2)
Re:Reliability (Score:2)
Re:Reliability (Score:2)
Re:Reliability (Score:2)
I've been very happy with HD-DVRs rented from cable companies in the past. No issues with reassigning stations, free upgrades to larger capacities, only one "crash" ever, and it really didn't crash, it was some uptime bug that required me power cycling the device. The symptom was "no data" on all of the listings.
This was a Motorola box, don't know about the software inside of it, but it was pretty nice.
Re:Reliability (Score:2)
Both autodetect when the cable company reassigns the stations. They give me a little message saying 'your stations have changed blah blah blah.'
Neither crashes.
What DVR are you using? Sounds defective.
Re:Reliability (Score:1)
Sounds like somebody needs to buy a real Tivo (Score:1)
That would solve your reliability and channel issues, along with having a better interface.
Some things just aren't worth skimping on...
TiVO overly broad in general (Score:1)
I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:5, Informative)
We have both tivos and a Comcast HD PVR (I believe made by Magnavox), and I can attest to the interface being the hardest thing to get right, but maybe the most important. And, by far Tivo has come closest to the transcendental interface over any competitors (I've also sampled the offering of some of the others).
Here are some of the "wows" about Tivo, many of which I'd discovered over time:
This barely covers the features, but Tivo has done an AMAZING job in ergonomics!
The Comcast box, on the other hand, is abysmal. It is almost unusable, but for now is the only available option to record HD shows. Here are a few of the annoyances:
Cox DVR works great (Score:1)
Re:Cox DVR works great (Score:1)
I just moved from TW to Comcast (Score:2)
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:1)
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:1)
Actually, you can change channels. I've experienced this problem before, and discovered the solution by accident.
Press "Swap" button on the bottom of the remote. Problem solved - you'll switch to the other tuner. You can switch between the two tuners anytime,
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:1)
No, you're right. (Score:1)
Re:No, you're right. (Score:2)
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:3, Informative)
There is a swap button to switch between tuners so you're not locked to one station if you are recording it. It's at the very bottom of the remote, second from the left.
As for the front display, it really isn't that complicated:
The LED in the lower left is the power indicator (yellow is on, off is off).
The LED in the lower right, comes on when it gets input from the remote. Normally it just flashes ye
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:2)
I've never seen the phantom recordings thing, but I have had it skip a couple recordings with odd start times that it said had no conflicts. I did have both tuners busy though (one recording straight from 7-9PM, the other one program from 7-8:32PM, and another 8:32-9PM). I assume it took a little too long to finish saving the 7-8:32 show and missed the start of the 8:32 show. It woul
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:1)
(emphasis added)
Re:I can vouch for tivo... they got it right (Score:2)
Also, it's worth reading the Wikipedia article on the Motorolla DVR. Some of the codes it gives for programming hidden buttons into the remote are very useful. For example, you can program in a "swap" button that will allow you to switch tun
It's a bit of a history rewrite (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's a bit of a history rewrite (Score:2)
Apprently with tivo (Score:5, Interesting)
I had Tivo for 4 years and Tivo was relevant to me up to about 1 year ago. And, unfortunately for them and me, that window closed (because I upgraded to HDTV) and they just aren't anymore since I would have to "turn back time" to go back to them. The lack of HDTV support was, in simple terms, a deal-breaker.
Maybe that new Series3 will change things. When is it shipping again?
No, no. I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say "announce" or "pass tests". I said shipping.
Re:Apprently with tivo (Score:2)
Re:Apprently with tivo (Score:2)
Its the same problem Tivo has. Regardless of the technology -- the DVR must must must support CableCards. As i
MythTV HDR (Score:1)
Re:MythTV HDR (Score:3, Interesting)
It is possible to get HD content into myth-TV if you have the DirectTV Tivo. I have done this by hand, with a hacked tivo, and the usb-Eithernet adapter, then used mencoder to put it into a divx format and mythTV to re-stream it.
I have seen plugins designed to automate Tivo -> mythTV, but since my PC wasn't doing a very strong job of sending HD content reliably through mythTV, mythTV is shelved at my house,
Scientific Atlanta (Score:1)
Re:Scientific Atlanta (Score:2)
Re:Apprently with tivo (Score:3, Informative)
> Maybe that new Series3 will change things. When is it shipping again?
I have had a HD TIVO for about 6 months now, it is a pretty nice unit.
I would bet the blame for lack of a standalone HDTV TiVo goes to the cable industry. They probably aren't standardized enough to make a box to allow the design of a single unit you could move from company to compnay, house to house.
MY HD TiVo does record all the Over The Air HD content that is a
Re:Apprently with tivo (Score:2)
The real problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The real problem (Score:1)
If you are not willing to subscribe to the DVR manufacturer's TV listings service, then are you willing to subscribe to TV Guide magazine (also a service) and key in your own TV listings?
No, it should be provided for free! (Score:2)
>then are you willing to subscribe to TV Guide magazine (also a service) and key
>in your own TV listings?
This information is already provided by many content providers for free. I get Guide+ program listings on my TV sets and on my computer for free. There is no need to subscribe to a service to get a program listing, nor shoult there be. If the content provider wants me to watch their content, they need to provid
TV Guide On Screen (Score:2)
I get Guide+ program listings on my TV sets and on my computer for free.
I'd imagine that access to the Guide Plus (now TV Guide On Screen [gemstartvguide.com]) listings is not actually free, that consumer electronics manufacturers pay royalties to Gemstar for use of related patents and know-how with the condition that advertisements in the service shall be displayed without modification. Makers of MythTV boxes are unlikely to be large enough to be able to negotiate with Gemstar.
Guide+ (Score:2)
>that consumer electronics manufacturers pay royalties to Gemstar for use of related patents and know-how with the
>condition that advertisements in the service shall be displayed without modification. Makers of MythTV boxes are
>unlikely to be large enough to be able to negotiate with Gemstar.
My ATI TV Wonder tuner card in my PC supports the Guide+ service and it's rudimentary DV
Inaccurate (Score:2)
Not true. More than once I've been up at 4 AM and noticed the Tivo had gone into record, reeling in a commer
Re:Inaccurate (Score:2)
Wed 5/3 5:00 am KSPX Teleworld Paid Program No Episode Title
Re:Inaccurate (Score:3, Informative)
They mean download rather than streaming. The overnigh
Huh? (Score:2, Funny)
"Hi, Son. I am no longer your daddy. I unprocreated you"
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
The co-founder of Tivo is Jim Burton.
It was an apparently lame attempt at humor.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
interesting (Score:2)
wow, i guess time travel is possible on a tivo too!
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:heh (Score:1)
Update (Score:3, Informative)
Soon Zonk will not be confounding Slashdot with sentences like:
Tim Burton no longer cofounding Tivo.
Founding is something that is completed in the past. Pluperfect for grammar enthusiasts or those that have learned more structured languages than English is structured.
Nobody can no longer found or cofound something.
It's really quite simple... (Score:2)
Blaming the recorder for the fact I've got zero interest in the crap adverts isn't rational.
Tivo embodies everything I hate... (Score:3, Insightful)
Jim says, in no uncertain terms, that although you might have paid $500 for the hardware, they want to secure it enough that you can't use any 3rd-party software to update the listings. That's exactly like the RIAA, MPAA, Cable TV, etc.
You bought the product, yet you don't really own it... They don't quite want to make it a product, and don't quite want to make it a service. They want to get the best of both for themselves, and screw their customers every which-way they can.
Every day I'm more and more glad I spent ~$400 on a new system with a capture card, and invested a couple weeks to set everything up, about 4 years ago... My DVR is fast enough to playback HDTV, and already has a DVI output. For the cost of a cable, and perhaps an HDTV capture card, I'm ready for the next 100 years of broadcast television. Plus I can re-encode and edit out commercials, master and record to CD, DVD (Blu-ray?) etc. right on the same old DVR.
Meanwhile, Tivo owners have to go through extensive hacks to upgrade their hard drives, transfer their recordings to their PCs to re-encode, edit, burn to DVD, etc. Have to pay monthly fees for life, or put their old series 1 Tivos on life-support, to try and keep them going forever.
My DVR may not have an interface as pretty as a Tivo (mainly just a slightly modified file-manager, a few scripts, and MPlayer, operated through an IR remote), but it's stupid-simple to use, incredibly responsive, and it will work with anything you can throw at it.
Re:offtopic, but why can't I "save" my live buffer (Score:1)
MythTV is already better than this (Score:2)
It will keep *everything* you watch, given enough disk space, and expire "Live" data faster than the "Recordings" to make room for new material.
You can also promote a live buffer to a recording by pressing record.
Re:offtopic, but why can't I "save" my live buffer (Score:4, Informative)
Re:offtopic, but why can't I "save" my live buffer (Score:2)
You can, with a tivo. (Score:3, Informative)
There are still some gripes with the Tivo buffering system, but this isn't one of them. Gripes:
1. It's only 30 minutes
2. If you wait too long to hit record (ie, into the start of another show) you'll only get the airing show, not the buffered one. It should ask which one you want.
3. It clears the buffer on
Re:You can, with a tivo. (Score:1)
Re:You can, with a tivo. (Score:2)
I remember recordings at anything below "high" looking like crapola on my series 1, though-- has it improved? I didn't think they could tweak the codecs, since they're in hardware.
Re:You can, with a tivo. (Score:1)
For my wife and I it captures the beauty of our ever-growing concurrent set of reality shows fine for us. There are still weird color and shape glitches in scenes particularly with low lighting and low contrast, but the sound quality seems to be fine - and not like we can tell on our old 27-inch TV.
Definitely still better than my crappy VCR, which is basically what I was going for.
Medium Quality is a waste of time - not noticeably different from basic to my eyes. So we eith
Re:You can, with a tivo. (Score:2)
Check here [tivocommunity.com] and read this thread.
Re:offtopic, but why can't I "save" my live buffer (Score:2, Informative)
Re:TiVO way too full of themselves... (Score:2)
Re:Love PVR's Dont like Tivo (Score:1, Flamebait)
I'll admit I've never tried to set up a myth box (and I get HD over DTV, so there's no sense in fighting that battle), so it may be as easy and trouble free as TiVo. But I have my doubts.
McCoy to Kirk... (Score:2)
"Wonderful machine! No off switch!"
Must've saved 'em all of about $0.39 per unit in production, eh?
Well.... (Score:2)
I could live without the dancing tivo guy, for sure.
What I *do* wish the tivo had is a wake-on-schedule setup for recordings. Why does the thing need to be "on" all the time? I have a cheapass HTPC that can hibernate itself and power up at a scheduled time to start a recording-- surely Tivo can do likewise. I could live without the unnecessary po
Re:Listing Accuracy and Detail (Score:2)
This is more a problem with the listing data provided by Tribune Media Services. To be fair, it's a lot of data to coordinate.
Here's what I hate: Say my prefs are 1) Daily Show, and 2) Lost, and let's say both are on at 8pm. Tivo will record The Daily Show and skip Lost, even though there is another showing of the Daily Show at 11pm.
Re:Listing Accuracy and Detail (Score:2)
Regardless of priority, it's a fact you indicated you want both shows, and it's a fact Tivo could manage to record both of them if it was a little bit clever.
MythTv *would* manage to get both shows in this situation. (low-pri show with only one airing crashes with high-pri show with several airings)
Re:Listing Accuracy and Detail (Score:2)
Re:Humax - 8000T Freeview (Score:2)
- upgradeable HD (I've got a 250G in mine, others have done 400G+)
- full twin tuner (record 2 timers while playing back a recording)
- full 7-day EPG (not just "Now & Next") uploaded from PC
- USB port for downloading recordings to your PC - make DVDs with proper menus, directly from the digital stream, with no analogue loss.
Admittedly, they cost 5x as much as your Humax. But even the Humax 9