Cockroaches Make Group Decisions? 212
The Discovery Channel is reporting a recent study indicates that cockroaches govern themselves using simple group consultations before anything that affects the entire group. From the article: " The research determined that cockroach decision-making follows a predictable pattern that could explain group dynamics of other insects and animals, such as ants, spiders, fish and even cows. Cockroaches, Blattella Germanica, are silent creatures, save perhaps for the sound of them scurrying over a counter top. They therefore must communicate without vocalizing.
Kafkaesque (Score:5, Funny)
Poor Gregor, no matter how hard he released pheromones, his parents just wouldn't listen
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:3, Funny)
Hypnotized? (Score:2)
(you may recall a slashdot article about wasps stinging cockroaches to hypnotize them...)
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:2)
Not quite sure why they annoyed me so much.
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:4, Funny)
Sounds like the management at about every company I've ever worked for....
cockroach, manager
potatO, potAto....
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Kafkaesque (Score:2)
That explains it! (Score:4, Funny)
X-Files (Score:4, Interesting)
In the X-Files episode "War of The Coprophages" cockroaches are seen to group together to murder people. The character Dr. Berenbaum (based on the University of Illinois entomologist) suggests that it is actually swarms of flying cockroaches that are responsible for most UFO sightings (they generate an electro-static field which can be illuminated dependent on atmospheric conditions). In one of the scenes, a cockroach that escaped can be seen crawling over the camera, making it appear that the viewer's television has become infested. Though the shot was not planned, the producers decided to leave it in the episode.
Re:X-Files (Score:2)
Ahh man, I loved that episode. But I'm pretty sure the cockroach crawling over the camera wasn't an accident. First of all, it wasn't crawling over the camera. If I remember correctly, the back of the cockroach was facing towards the viewer. They made it look like a cockro
Re:You forgot the best part of that episode... (Score:3, Informative)
Nature's middle-management. (Score:5, Funny)
Termites can do it too, but they hold theirs inside a plank of wood, hence the term "board meeting."
Re:Nature's middle-management. (Score:2)
Re:Nature's middle-management. (Score:2, Funny)
In my experience those aren't sure signifiers of intelligence at work.
Re:Nature's middle-management. (Score:2)
Re:Nature's middle-management. (Score:2)
Cockroach Staff Meeting Intercept (Score:5, Funny)
Long Hair Roach: "Sure, what do you have in mind?"
Pointy Hair Roach: "Well, let's see, we need a diversion, why don't we have a volunteer climb up into the light fixture and drop onto her sholder, which will cause her to scream, flail about, and run out of the room."
Long Hair Roach: "Um, how do we get into to the light fixture?"
Pointy Hair Roach: "I dunno, go license some tech from the ants for hanging from ceilings and stuff."
Long Hair Roach: "Uh... ok."
Pointy Hair Roach: "Right, so while the volunteer is running back and forth avoiding the fly swatter, huge feet, and general mayhem, we'll monitor progress from the counter top."
Long Hair Roach: "So, who's going to volunteer?"
Pointy Hair Roach: "Well, since you brought it up..."
Long Hair Roach: "So, you want me to outsource the tech to the ants, then use it untested to scale a vertical wall, hang from a ceiling, get into a light fixture without being electrocuted - you didn't think of that, did you? And then dropping onto a human and avoiding getting crushed. Wait, what are you going to do to contribute?"
Pointy Hair Roach: "We'll be eating the toast."
Re:Nature's middle-management. (Score:2)
Dammit, what's the point, then?
Roach Intelligence (Score:5, Interesting)
from the article: After much "consultation," through antenna probing, touching and more, the cockroaches divided themselves up perfectly within the shelters. For example, if 50 insects were placed in a dish with three shelters, each with a capacity for 40 bugs, 25 roaches huddled together in the first shelter, 25 gathered in the second shelter, and the third was left vacant.
A completely selfish roach would say "screw you, I'm not going to that other house, I want to stay where everybody else is!". But because other roaches are willing to go to the second house so is any extraordinarily selfish roach. So this is an evolutionarily stable strategy. This challenges how smart we think roaches are. They are truly making decisions. It's not that some of the roaches are genetically predisposed to being the roach who decides not to stay with everyone else while other's lack that genetic predisposition. If this were the case the numbers of each group when they divide would never be even.
Re:Roach Intelligence (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Stay in shelter
2) Count other roaches nearby
3) If otherCount > X move to the next house.
I have heard ants follow this kind of "reasoning" and thus perform very complext tasks.
1) Gather Food
2) If gatherFoodSmell becomes too strong then hunt for food
3) If fellowHunters smell becomes too strong then make tunnel repairs
etc...
Re:Roach Intelligence (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course the article was rather lacking in details. Was it always 25, or was it sometimes a 27/23 split?
Re:Roach Intelligence (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the things that this suggests to me is that roaches have good spatial reasoning. If t
Roach Intelligence - and math skills (Score:5, Interesting)
OK, so now let's do this experiment again, this time with 51 roaches. Will there be 17 in each of the three shelters? What if we reduce shelter capacity to 30 roaches? or 25?
As another poster has suggested this may have less to do with intelligent decisions and more to do with scripted behavior: if roach population here is above X, branch to new location. The threshold X may be set by a number of factors such as total perceived population, observed population in the current shelter, etc. Tweaking shelter size, number of roaches, and other conditions in a controlled way may reveal the decision motivators and help to discern if there is some consensus at work or if it's just a survival script. Just as roaches avoid light because they have evolved to recognize it leaves them detectable and therefore vulnerable, they may scorn large groupings to avoid being wiped out by the loss of a single population center.
Re:Roach Intelligence - and math skills (Score:2)
I'm sure that it all boils down to a biological analog of a script, but couldn't the same be said of a lot of human behavior?
Re:Roach Intelligence - and math skills (Score:2)
They probably stand around, looking at each other. At one point a few of them turn to one of the other roaches and say, "Sorry, Lenny, you drew the short straw." Then they bite off his head so they can divvy themselves up evenly.
Re:Roach Intelligence (Score:2)
Well, seems they can only divide by 2 now, wonder how long till they learn to divide by 3!
Re:Roach Intelligence (Score:2, Funny)
A thinking bug? I find the idea offensive!
Re:Roach Intelligence (Score:2)
Intelligence (Score:5, Funny)
But, if I find one in my house I'm still going to squish it.
Re:Intelligence (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Intelligence (Score:2)
Re:Intelligence (Score:2)
Smarter then many humans? (Score:5, Funny)
So some of my past managers really were dumber than cockroaches? I knew it! Thank you
So that's why he went down. (Score:5, Funny)
Words of wisdom, I guess.
That explains... (Score:2)
Uh. (Score:2)
Is this still a matter of debate? (Score:2)
Is this still a matter of debate?
When I was studying Entomology 15 years ago (egad!), the the leading theory for insect communication is that that they communicated primarily using scents and vibrations on the ground in the air. They can hear, but not necessarily vocalize.
This has been studied extensively in ants & termites -- As far as I know, this is still the leading theory.
It's hard to prove, because "smells" are hard to detect.
Re:Is this still a matter of debate? (Score:2)
Not that hard.
Re:Is this still a matter of debate? (Score:2)
*ptttpppthhhhtpt*
Obligatory Futurama Quote (Score:2)
Re:Is this still a matter of debate? (Score:2, Funny)
Group Intelligence... (Score:2)
More pictures (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More pictures (Score:2)
Atoms are democratic too (Score:3, Insightful)
Even more significantly the researchers showed that this equilibrium was dynamic. If a bunch of atoms drifted from one partition to another then another bunch would go back the other way. It's not always the same atoms that stay in any particular partition. This demonstrates that the atoms are actually smart enough to be able to count how many atoms are leaving and entering a partition at any time.
"This could revolutionize thinking about atoms," claimed the researcher.
bogus experiment :-D (Score:2)
unless, of course, the atoms are taking orders from the cockroaches. we don't get along.
Re:Atoms are democratic too (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Atoms are democratic too (Score:2)
What is often said about computers applies to cockroaches as well:
Re:Atoms are democratic too (Score:2)
Wow, that's cool, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, you're right (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes, you're right (Score:3, Insightful)
ngm wasn't the one that accused you of jumping the gun, that was ergo98. Maybe you shouldn't have jumped the gun in this reply.
You're really missing what is interesting about this, and both your analogies suck as a result. Neither fluid dynamics nor a simple selfish optimization algorithm describe this behavior. When presented with three she
Re:Wow, that's cool, but... (Score:2)
- if more inhabited/safe shelters are found, take the least crowded one.
- if you can't find one look for all possible shelters that are empty. Once you're really, really sure there's no SAFE shelter, try out one of these dangerous shelters.
- periodically exit, for a look around/search for food/to excrete/etc, then repeat algorithm.
This should account for the described behaviour
Re:Wow, that's cool, but... (Score:2)
Damn, these roaches really start to seem intelligent to have cracked this thing already
Re:Atoms are democratic too (Score:2)
Re:Atoms are democratic too (Score:2)
Yes, it's called "Roach Death". There's a related term involving a proliferation of insects of a different family, Formicidae: Ant-ropy.
Re:Atoms are democratic too (Score:2)
A lttle more information would be nice (Score:2)
Are certain roaches more active than others in the "communicating" phase? Do they exhibit "Leadership?" Do the roaches split themselves based on swarm? Is there a consistent distribution of the numbers inside the shelters?
Re:A lttle more information would be nice (Score:2)
Cockroach Decisions (Score:5, Funny)
CR1: Is that the sound of a light-switch I hear?
CR2: Yes!
CR3: What should we do?
CR4: Run!
CR5: Do I have a second?
Maybe not!
Cockroaches Make Group Decisions? (Score:2)
So, for people.... (Score:2)
"...So does that mean I'm #1, or
A cleaned-up copy of the story (Score:3, Funny)
Congresspeople Make Group Decisions
March 30, 2006 — Congresspeople govern themselves in a very simple democracy where each insect has equal standing and group consultations precede decisions that affect the entire group, indicates a new study.
The research determined that congressperson decision-making follows a predictable pattern that could explain group dynamics of other insects and animals, such as ants, spiders, fish and even cows.
"Congresspeople use chemical and tactile communication with each other," said José Halloy, who co-authored the research, which is outlined in this week's Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "They can also use vision."
Halloy, a scientist in the Department of Social Ecology at the Free University of Brussels in Belgium, added, "When they encounter each other they recognize if they belong to the same colony thanks to their antennas that are 'nooses,' that is, sophisticated olfactory organs that are very sensitive."
Halloy tested congressperson group behavior by placing the insects in a dish that contained three shelters. The test was to see how the Congresspeople would divide themselves into the shelters.
After much "consultation," through antenna probing, touching and more, the Congresspeople divided themselves up perfectly within the shelters. For example, if 50 insects were placed in a dish with three shelters, each with a capacity for 40 bugs, 25 congresspeople huddled together in the first shelter, 25 gathered in the second shelter, and the third was left vacant.
When the researchers altered this setup so that it had three shelters with a capacity for more than 50 insects, all of the Congresspeople moved into the first "house."
Halloy and his colleagues found that a balance existed between cooperation and competition for resources.
He explained to Discovery News, "Congresspeople are gregarious insects (that) benefit from living in groups. It increases their reproductive opportunities, (promotes) sharing of resources like shelter or food, prevents desiccation by aggregating more in dry environments, etc. So what we show is that these behavioral models allow them to optimize group size."
The models are so predictable that they could explain other insect and animal group behaviors, such as how some fish and bugs divide themselves up so neatly into subgroups, and how certain herding animals make simple decisions that do not involve leadership.
David Sumpter, an Oxford University zoologist, told Discovery News that the new study "is an excellent paper."
Sumpter continued, "It is important because it looks both at the mechanisms underlying decision-making by animals and how those mechanisms produce a distribution of animals amongst resource sites that optimizes their individual fitness. Much previous research has concentrated on either mechanisms or optimality at the expense of the other."
For congresspeople, it seems, cooperation comes naturally.
In another study.... (Score:3, Funny)
History will tell .... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:History will tell .... (Score:2)
Religious Cult (Score:2)
huh (Score:2)
Re:huh (Score:2, Informative)
Re:huh (Score:2)
Absolutely! (Score:2)
I've seen them make this decision, repeatedly! My wife walks around outside wearing sandals during the warm summer months, and you can clearly hear one the roaches (sight unseen) go "hey check out the blonde chick with her toes hanging out! Lets go make her scream bloody murder!!!" and then 2 or three come out of nowhere and run over towards her general direction and do exactly that.
No science needed
2 out of 3 Roaches Prefer Luxury Accomodations (Score:2)
Now from this, we can deduce that the cockroaches, after armageddon, will choose to live in mansions and luxury apartments, and stay clear of public
Computing? (Score:2, Interesting)
The potential of this cock-puter is mind-blowing...
Evolution Complete! (Score:2)
In the prophetic words of starcraft, Evolution Complete!
=\
Just great... (Score:2, Funny)
Still, they've got nothing on... (Score:2)
I'd be nice to see the real results... (Score:3, Insightful)
Emergent behavior (Score:3, Insightful)
In the case of parceling out a population of roaches into equal-size subpopulations, well, cockroaches stink. Er, that is, they emit chemicals into the air, and an individual cockroach may be able to detect the concentration of such a chemical as it approaches multiple sheltered areas to determine which area is occupied a little bit but not too much. The experimenter should attempt to determine what chemical accounts for such behavior and determine what concentrations are attractive or repulsive to roaches. This doesn't necessarily convey communication, because if the same chemical governs the entire behavior, then each individual cockroach isn't really conveying any information about the state of the colony in a shelter. The information results as the emergent property of having a lot of cockroaches in the same space.
In the case of roaches determining whether a cockroach is kin or not, this may be governed by similar chemicals which vary slightly among the world population of cockroaches. The same determination is made by single-celled organisms, which respond differently to the presence of certain proteins in the cell membrane. This doesn't indicate that actual communication is taking place, but rather that one cockroach is able to detect chemicals that the other cockroach would be emitting regardless of whether the two were interacting or not.
One has to be careful when deciding whether a phenomenon is explained by communication or not, because there may be many definitions of communication. Is it communication when one organism does something while oblivious to the reasons why it's doing it, and the results of that action later affect another organism? Does communication require the direct interaction of two organisms? Must the behaviors of both organisms - both emitting and receiving the signal - be neurally based, or can one or both actions be the result of a purely mechanical property of the organisms? Do the organisms have to be aware of the information they are sending or receiving (and there you bring in another ball of wax, because what constitutes awareness)?
Re:Emergent behavior (Score:2)
Hey (Score:2)
Now that is such beautiful irony... I think I'm going to cry...
Cockroach communication ... (Score:2)
So do they use email, or IM?
Or do they communicate using discussion forums?
Cockroaches are not Silent (Score:2)
That's not entirely true. They emit a distress signal very like a popping or crunching sound when stepped on. Though soft (and strangely satisifying) to our ears, the distress signal can be heard over relatively long distances by gigantic, extraterrestial "bugs" and, we assume, their terrestial brethern as well. Didn't the researchers
Commitee (Score:2)
Hmm, now that you think about it, sounds a lot like where i work..
How is this news ? (Score:2)
I must be hungry (Score:2)
I read the headline " Cockroaches Make Group Decisions?"
As " Cockroaches Make Great Soup "
I can't imagine how bad that soup would taste. I wonder when Slashdot became a recipie site.
Obligatory (Score:2)
B(s)G (Score:2)
Re:nothing to hear here, move along (Score:5, Funny)
You realize the article was about how cockroaches get together, communicate effectively, and do what is good for the entire group, right? That means you either completely mistrolled for the slashdot groupthink, or you are the bravest Republican in the history of slashdot. Either way, I fear a karma-punishment in your future.
Re:nothing to hear here, move along (Score:2)
Hrm? Republicans are the majority in congress? All that irresponsible budget spending and big government had me fooled for a bit.
U.S. Federal Deficit by Political Party (Score:3, Interesting)
--
Before, Saddam got Iraq oil profits & paid part to kill Iraqis. Now a few Americans share Iraq oil profits, & U.S. citizens pay to kill Iraqis. Improvement?
Re:nothing to hear here, move along (Score:2)
Yes, and Congress typically gets together, communicates effectively, and does what's best for the entire... Congress.
So, yes, they're just like cockroaches: as a group, they generally do what's best for themselves. Note that the article didn't indicate that the behavior generally benefited other cockroaches outside the clique.
In fact, the only exception I take to the OP is
Re:nothing to hear here, move along (Score:4, Funny)
Re:nothing to hear here, move along (Score:2)
Furthermore, note that the surpluses were projected and largely relied on a non-finalized tobacco deal with the promise that the funds would be found elsewhere if it fell through.
Maybe people like Bush wouldn't get elected if the opposition could at least pretend to have a clue.
Re:nothing to hear here, move along (Score:2)
Really makes sense considering that FUL [warresisters.org]
Re:Of course they communicate... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Of course they communicate... (Score:2)
Re:Biological spelling flame... (Score:5, Funny)
Why are you looking at me like that?
Re:Blattella Germanica (Score:2)