Green Geek Beer 195
DigiDave writes "A time honored tradition on St Patty's Day is to drink green beer. But some breweries go out of their way to make sure that the brewskies we drink are always green, by using environmentally friendly brewing methods. The makers of Fat Tire, for example, use a cogeneration process that involves anaerobic bacteria turning wastewater into methane gas for power."
So much for current events... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2, Funny)
Now that i think of it, that would be cool...
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
from tfa
Its choice of method is wind power, which provides 100 percent of the brewery's energy needs, making the 1,658,000 gallons of beer it produces green year-round.
so, no wind, no beer ? all the green one's and also the greeks have to blow really hard all year around to get any drop of beer. so during the thunderstorms you get all the beer you'll need, and on a nice quite windless hot summer day you're on the dry. that may be nature friendly and s
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
Maybe the Irishmen in your part of the world don't drink green beer, but Americans with Irish ancestry (and that's about 25% of us) insist on it. Hey, on St. Patrick's day, they even dye the Chicago River green.
St. Patrick's Day is one of many traditional holidays that Americans have coopted for our own purposes. In this case, it's a big celebration meant to assert Irish
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
According to the Census bureau, 35 million Americans claim Irish ancestry. Which I guess is more like 14%. I think the percentage used to be much higher, before later immigrants arrived. I recall learning in school how Irish Americans and German Americans were a big enough voting block to delay the entry of the U.S. in World War I. That's probably where I got the 25% figure.
Even 35 million might sound inflated. As you point out, that's 7 times the
Re:So much for current events... (Score:2)
St Patty's day (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe someone is still struggling after a few too many beers?
I'm not sure I would call this a time honoured tradition either - I'd never even heard of green beer until I went to the US. I'd never seen it either in Ireland or any of the Irish (and I mean real Irish pubs in Kilburn owned by Irish landlords full of first generation Irish people or Irish people working temporarily in London) pubs in the UK I've been to on St Patricks day.
Re:St Patty's day (Score:2)
Re:St Patty's day (Score:2)
If they can dye the river green for St. Patty's Day, why can't they dye it blue every other day of the year?
Re:St Patty's day (Score:4, Interesting)
Try Fat Tire, and DEFINATELY get to a McMennamins and try Terminator Stout.
(They frequently have a "special" version (can't recall what it was called) that would rip yer head off.)
Go to Portland if you get a chance, I'tll be sorta like home, only with more guys wearing leather walking their boyfreinds downtown on dog chains.
Only wetter.
And I personally suspect Mad Cow, rather than any pork issues.
Re:St Patty's day (Score:2)
Re:St Patty's day (Score:2)
Uh no. Fat Tire is in no way a belgian. Its an amber ale. New Belgium's belgians are the Abbey and the Trippel (and the Frambrozen if you are counting Lambics). I wouldn't say its digusting, but it certainly is pedestrian. Althoug
Pitching in (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Pitching in (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Pitching in (Score:1)
Fat Tire (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Fat Tire (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2)
You midwesterners should feel blessed that you have this beer at all. It really w
Re:Fat Tire (Score:3, Informative)
While the mass produced crap deserves it's repuation as being better after urination than before, so does European mass produced beer in the large part. Things like Concorde Pale Ale are not quite up to snuff compared to Fursty Ferret (partly due to the instance on selling it chilled, which impairs the flavour), but it's a hell of a lot better than the canned sewerage output they sell
Re:Fat Tire (Score:5, Insightful)
I brew my own but also drink that "mass produced crap". I used to be a beer snob, but over the years, I've learn that that "crap" has alot going for it.
-I can get it anywhere...any country, any state, any town I'm in, and I don't even need to ask. I know they have it.
-Usually, I'm really just looking for something cold and wet.
-Usually, the beer is just an accessory to the journey; it's not the destination. I'm more interesting in what's going on around me.
-It is still booze. After a few drinks, it doesn't matter what you are drinking.
and most importantly...
-Mass produced beers don't attract a gaggle of shallow buffoons that judge people by what they drink.
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2, Insightful)
-Mass produced beers don't attract a gaggle of shallow buffoons that judge people by what they drink.
It's better than that. 'Mass produced' beers repel that type of cretin.
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2)
Re:Fat Tire (Score:3, Interesting)
What's hilarious about this comment (which you often hear from Australians, when beer ever comes up in coversation) is that the most popular beer in Australia is Crown Lager, which is literally the exact same beer, made by the same brewery in the same factory, with different packaging.
So if an Australian ever tells you that Foster's is the worst shit, that only Americans
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2)
I'm surprised it's Australia's biggest selling beer, though. Most of the people I know don't like it, especially at about $A50 a case.
Re:Fat Tire (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this a bonus? Why bother going anywhere if you aren't going to try something new? The first thing I ask for when I go into a bar/pub while traveling is if they have any local brews.
-Usually, I'm really just looking for something cold and wet.
Drink water.
-Usually, the beer is just an accessory to the journey; it's not the destination. I'm more interesting in what's going on ar
I'd like to find a mild like that (Score:2)
Re:The Germans figured it out a long time ago (Score:2)
Re:Fat Tire (Score:5, Informative)
SOUTHERN MIDWEST???
I beg your pardon, sir, but the noble brew of which you speak is lovingly manufactured in Fort Collins, Colorado, roughly 30 minutes south of the Wyoming border.
http://www.newbelgium.com/ [newbelgium.com]
If you're ever in the area, I heartily recommend their free brewery tour. You learn a lot about beer, and at the end you are given a little glass of each of their brews in a fun and chatty atmosphere. It's a great free day date in Fort Collins. Afterwards, you can head back the road into Old Town for great food and a plethora of great bars, all within picturesque walking distance.
I recommend The Crown Pub (on College) and the Rio Grande (on Mountain) for food/drinks, and Elliot's martini bar (on Linden) for drinks. Finish your drunken evening off at Walrus ice cream (on Mountain, next to the Rio), enjoying their homemade deliciousness.
Oh, and personally, I prefer New Belgium's Sunshine Wheat to Fat Tire, mostly because hoppy beers like Fat Tire give me terrible acid reflux, although they are tasty.
Come on, everyone! Let's enjoy Fort Collins!
This message NOT paid for by the Fort Collins tourism board or chamber of commerce. My Japanese-language historical walking tours of Old Town have also ended, due to the fact that I don't live there anymore.
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2)
Town Pump??? (Score:2)
Re:Fat Tire (Score:2, Interesting)
Fat Tire...why? (Score:1)
So what is it people like so much about Fat Tire? Is it that it's an ok beer t
Re:Fat Tire...why? (Score:2)
Describing why I like it is difficult. I'm not going to turn into one of those beer snobs and describe is with words like "hints of" and "burnt chocolate" because I hate people who say that. If you don't like it, don't drink it - I don't like several beers and I don't drink them. One of the things I really enjoy about going to new bars and pla
Re:Fat Tire...why? (Score:2)
erm (Score:2)
And I personally don't like it at all. It's bland. Not very hoppy, not very malty. Reminds me of Newcastle - just not much personality in it.
Give me a Bell's any day of the week. Or hell, even a Sierra Nevada. But Fat Tire. . meh. Overhyped and overpriced.
Beer? (Score:4, Funny)
in (state side) domestic beer.
move on
Public Health Warning - Tourist Advisary (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Public Health Warning - Tourist Advisary (Score:1)
Re:Public Health Warning - Tourist Advisary (Score:2)
Re:Public Health Warning - Tourist Advisary (Score:2)
Fully agreed!! Twenty years ago, it was the only beer served on my wedding. Good stuff....
What does "Irish-American" mean anyway? (Score:2)
I was born in England, got a southern English accent, but using the above suggested definitions, well in the first case (one ancestor five generations back) maybe you could call me "Spanish-English" (apparently one of my great great grandfathers married a Spanish girl). Or in the second case, two of my grandparents were born and bred Scots, my mum spent a lot o
Re:What does "Irish-American" mean anyway? (Score:2)
My grandparents on one side, Polish... second generation... speak the language, grew up in strongly Polish neighborhoods in Chicago, strongly identify with it... grandparents on the other side, one German one Luxembourgian, lived in a pretty Luxembourgian nei
Re:What does "Irish-American" mean anyway? (Score:2)
Re:Public Health Warning - Tourist Advisary (Score:2)
Paddy's Day (Score:5, Informative)
Its spelled St. Paddy's Day if you're gonna abbreviate it.
Patty is short for Patricia.
Paddy is short for Patrick because the gaelic name is Padraig.
Why does everyone insist on calling St. Patrick a woman?
Re:Paddy's Day (Score:1)
Re:Paddy's Day (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Paddy's Day (Score:2)
Re:Paddy's Day (Score:2)
Re:Paddy's Day (Score:2)
Re:Paddy's Day (Score:3, Informative)
On the other hand (Score:2)
Green beer!!!!?!? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Green beer!!!!?!? (Score:1)
Re:Green beer!!!!?!? (Score:2)
Just a little food coloring in the pitcher, nothing fancy... heck in Chicago they dye our whole dang river flourescent green.
Re:Green beer!!!!?!? (Score:3, Funny)
Irish bartender: Green beer, of course.
American tourist: No way! I've got to try me one of those!
Irish bartender: [hands tourist a Guinness]
American tourist: Um, are you sure this is green?
Irish bartender: It's a bit dark, but it's green to be sure.
American tourist: Gee, wait 'til I tell the folks back home!
And thus a great Irish joke was born...
Most breweries do.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Most breweries do.. (Score:2, Funny)
Beginning of a Trend (Score:1)
For the love of God It's not St. Patty! (Score:1)
Re:For the love of God It's not St. Patty! (Score:3, Insightful)
"Patty is short for Patricia. Paddy is short for Patrick"
is not the most intuitive statement in the world
Re:For the love of God It's not St. Patty! (Score:1)
I wrote it in the heat of the moment!
Brewskies? wtf??? (Score:2)
Re:Brewskies? wtf??? (Score:1)
patty has twice as much, and his original christian name was patricius.
Re:Brewskies? wtf??? (Score:2)
Enjoy the blend of slavic and hiberian culture
Re:Brewskies? wtf??? (Score:2, Informative)
It means, roughly, "Me idiot. Want beer."
Real "Green" Beer (Score:2, Interesting)
#Miyamori Wasabi Beer at [ratebeer.com]
Drink the right beer! (Score:5, Interesting)
Go out and trying a real beer for once, and not just Guinness on St Pats (arguably not that great a beer). Some of the world's greatest beers [beeradvocate.com] are quite accessible and will blow your socks off with their complexity and flavour.
Similar to wine coinnoseurs, there are also those who are (mostly self-professed) experts in beer, preferring something good like a trappist beer [wikipedia.org] with their meal to wine, and deservingly so. A properly brewed beer's a lot more interesting to have with a meal than wine, and there's infinitely more variety.
Heineken is not a good beer. Really. In Holland it's considered mediocre. If you see a beer everywhere, then it's mosty likely crap. Stella's pissy too. Budvar, Pilsener Urquell, Hertog Jan...they're ok for lagers.
A coding session's a heck of a lot more enjoyable when combined with a decent brew. But be careful, too good a beer will distract! Some of my best output's come after having a good Belgian [wikipedia.org].
Seriously. Go down to your nearest large speciality bottle shop/liquor store and find a few bottles of the higher rated beers [beeradvocate.com] that you can find. Drink them, out of the proper glassware and at the right temperature then you'll never go back to a macro again. It could get more expensive, but damn it's worth it. A hint - drink light-coloured beers in warmer weather and darker ones in cool weather.
And then you can have good beer all the time.
Re:Drink the right beer! (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway, it doesnt have to be widely available in the states to be good. The number one beer in the world, Westvleteren [wikipedia.org], is only sold in small quantities at the gates of a small monastery in a remote corner of Belg
Re:Drink the right beer! (Score:2)
That word, "world". I do not think it means what they think it means.
You know - like the world series of baseball.
Alex
Re:Drink the right beer! (Score:2)
It may be the "Guinness Effect" - From what I've heard, Guinness is much better in Ireland than it is on this side of the pond, most likely due to shipping, or differences in recipe for American tastes.
Actually, I think I recall seeing that the Guinness sold in the U.S. is brewed somewhere in the U.S. The brewery is owned an
Re:Drink the right beer! (Score:2)
Most of the Guinness that's sold in the US is brewed in Canada, not Ireland. Check the label on a bottle or can sometime. There is some actual Irish Guinness brought into the country, but not much, and I think it's only available in kegs.
Here in Las Vegas, one of the local Irish pubs carries Irish Gui
Re:Drink the right beer! (Score:2)
Re:From a beer connoisseur! (Score:2)
Being born and raised 200 meters from the Heineken brewery in Amsterdam :-) but now living west of the atlantic, could it also be that in the Netherlands you are drinking Heineken often from the tap, while in the US/Canada it is always from a bottle?
1554!!! (Score:2)
Though over the hot Texas summer I've become quite fond of the other end of the spectrum: strong IPA's. Dogfish head 90 minute IPA. Stone Ruination IPA. I'm making myself thirsty.
Re:Drink the right beer! (Score:2)
One thing you forgot to mention: in order to travel, beer has to be refrigerated. I seem to recall that Brits really hate cold beer.
Guiness (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Guiness (Score:2)
Re:Guiness (Score:2)
I just knew that was where all the tales of the wee folk came from.
Fat Tire is a great beer... (Score:4, Interesting)
After trying a few brands (some OK, some not so OK), i tried Fat Tire [newbelgium.com], and it was the best beer i've had in a long time.
(Coming from Yourshire in England, I'm usually a bit weary when it comes to sampling beers not brewed within 50 miles of where I was born...)
Re:Fat Tire is a great beer... (Score:2)
Weary means tired
Wary means cautious.
Message ends.
Re:Fat Tire is a great beer... (Score:2)
(Coming from Yourshire in England, I'm usually a bit tired when it comes to sampling beers not brewed within 50 miles of where I was born...)
or
(Coming from Yourshire in England, I'm usually a bit cautious when it comes to sampling beers not brewed within 50 miles of where I was born...)
Now which one makes sense in the context ?
Sampling means trying something out - so being tired while trying something out doesn't make sense, while being cautious while trying something out does.
If you h
Re:Fat Tire is a great beer... (Score:2)
Good beer isn't cheap (Score:4, Informative)
Brooklyn and New Belgium are both good breweries in that they use REAL grains (mostly malted barley) instead of the cheap and tasteless adjuncts (rice, corn) that make up 50% of cheap American swill. That alone is worthy of support.
But seeing them spend more money to be environmentally friendly is truly impressive. It takes a lot of enery to brew -- the grain must soak in 150F water (the mash), then be rinsed with 170F water to wash out the maltose (the lauter) and finally that resultant wort boiled for 60 - 120 minutes. That ain't cheap. Geting rid of the spent grains through farms is not unusual for small breweries -- but it is cheaper than landfill disposal costs. The wastewater treatment is not cheap either, because brewing produces a lot of it -- rich in yeast and sanitizing chemicals. However, most brewers just drop it into the sewer system.
It's not only admirable, but impressive that these breweries can keep costs in line while going the extra mile in energy and water treatment.
But... (Score:2, Insightful)
It is quite easy to say that you only use type X of a commodity - whether it's wind power for your electricity, non-(country of choice) oil for your gasoline, or lottery money for your state's education budget. It doesn't change the fact that everyone ELSE out there doesn't care what your source is - in the aggregate, the total amount of stuff is essentially not affected by you.
Short version:
Re:But... (Score:2)
Beer geeks speak out (Score:4, Informative)
In a lager brewing process the post-fermented wort is sometimes referred to as "green beer", which is the beer before a secondary fermentation process commences (conditioning, lagering, etc.)
As a side note it would be interesting to know how many tech-geeks extend their geektitude into the realm of brewing or zymurgy?
And I... (Score:2)
Re:And I... (Score:2)
Re:And I... (Score:2)
Re:Beer geeks speak out (Score:2)
Pick me (Score:2)
But why stop there? I also make wine, although only from kits. You can get very interesting wines in kits that can be VERY expensive (e.g. Amarone, Viognier) from the vinyards. At $3 - $4 per bottle.
I most enjoy aged vinegar. Commercial vinegar is another travesty, being made from cheap, flavorless ingredients like cane and beet sugar. Try mak
Not so green! (Score:3, Insightful)
Having been harvested, the grain is hauled by petrol fueled trucks to elevators and then hauled by petrol fueled rail to the maltsters.
The malting plant is probably not green - however it again probably could do better.
Now - as others have pointed out - energy is fungible. In order to be off petrol they would have to work only when the wind blows. Or they would have to harness the exothermic reaction called brewing.
The reason the brewing process gives off CO2 is because a hydrocarbon - eg sugar - is being partially oxidized by the yeast.
Essentually we are going from a polymer based on (CH2O)n into an alcohol which is CH3CH2OH or C(n)H(2n+1)OH where n=2 for ethanol (C2H6O which is really C2H5OH just written differently).
To be more specific we have a series of reactions by alpha and beta amylase which are created during the malting process which is exothermic. During mashing which is also exothermic the starches are broken down into simpler sugars, principally maltose which is a disaccharide made from two glucose molecuals.
So very specifically we have C12H22O11 + H2O -> 2 C6H12O6 followed by
C6H12O6 -> 2 C2H6O + 2CO2 + heat.
The point I am making is that with all these exothermic reactions they are still consuming a great deal of energy so they are not nearly as green as they might like to be seen as.
Next - of the wastewater.
Well - most of this would contain either nothing of much value or yeast which is very high in protein being a fungus and all... fungus are more closely related to animals than to plants. They are an excellent form of nutrition.
Rather than flushing the yeast down the sewer or putting it into holding tanks where it can be degraded by another micro-organism producing methane - it makes more sense to collect it and ship it off for food.
Of course the spent brewer's grains are typically shipped off for cattle fodder since they are high in proteins. Another use for them is as a nitrogen suppliment in synthetic substrates for mushroom production.
--------------
The thing about organics is that plants are basically a polymer of simple sugars. These are built into complex sugars then into starches, cellulose, pentosans and lignin. Fungus digest these. There are many fungus which can do this and some examples are Pleurotis spp, Lentinula spp, Flamulina spp, and I'll not go on. From these three genus we have the common Oyster mushrooms, Shiitaki and Enoki.
Other fungus which are cellulose digesters include Trichoderma spp. T. reesei is used to produce stone washed blue jeans for instance because it is easy to culture and partially digests the cotton. So they are really fungus washed blue jeans not stone washed and here we have another example of people lying to us!!!
There are some who are attempting with some success to use T. reesei to digest wood and produce alcohols. I suspect T. Reesei is being used because it is available and not because it is particularly good at this job.
The economics of this process are actually quite simple.
We start with a polymer made of (CH2O)n
We transform it via enzymes excreted by fungi into C(n)H(2n+1)OH
If we note that the alkane series is C(n)H(2n+2) where for n=8 we get octane then what we see is that our alcohols are simply a slightly oxydized alkane.
The reaction from sugar to ethanol for instance is:
(CH2O)6 -> 2(C2H5OH) + 2CO2
From a molecular weight standpoint we have:
(12+2+16)*6 -> 2*(24+5+16+1) + 2*(12+32)
30*6 -> 2*46 + 2*44
180 -> 92 + 88
Now agricultural products have some moisture even if they are "dry"
Mmm, tasty green gray-water... (Score:2)
Ewww! Since when, I ask you, does anyone want to drink a beer that involves a gray-water treatment regimen? Sounds like they partnered with the Department of Waste Management for this sparkling solution...
-c
Green beer, eh? Only in America. (Score:2)
Re:New Belgium Brewery (Score:2)