Why Won't Dell Promote Its Linux Desktops? 355
Brian McCoy writes "In this article, Steven Vaughn-Nichols proclaims "Last Thursday, when I wrote about Dell's new Linux desktop, was one of the most frustrating days of my professional life. My eWEEK colleague John Spooner and I tried our best to get Dell to confess that they really had released an honest-to-God Linux desktop.""
OK, I'll float the cynical questions (Score:5, Funny)
Or, do Dell's executives own Massive Stacks of certain stock?
Maybe Somebody would be Mighty Sore at Mr. Dell if he Mustered Sufficient courage to Make Significant choice available to people.
Ah, Monopolistic Speculation: gotta love it.
Re:OK, I'll float the cynical questions (Score:2)
Re:OK, I'll float the cynical questions (Score:2)
Re:OK, I'll float the cynical questions (Score:2)
Re:OK, I'll float the cynical questions (Score:2)
Re:OK, I'll float the cynical questions (Score:2)
Honestly it is tough to see if they are bold or not in IE becuase of the crappy fonts.
Support (Score:2)
Why not? (Score:2)
Re:Support (Score:2)
Windows scanner software tends in my experience to be buggy, crash-prone and awkward to use. Even the TWAIN drivers, which should allow you to scan straight into your favourite graphics editor transparently, are prone to memory leaks. The installation CDs v
Re:Support (Score:2)
not to say linux doesn't have its faults, but scanners isn't one i've seen
Re:Support (Score:2)
Immediately (no driver installation, no softare configuration) it was ready and able to scan.
Just like the computer industry did for Windows 15 years ago, they can do the same thing now, for Linux. Offering support is what people pay them for, so why shouldn't they? In fact, if a major PC manufacturer like that threw t
Re:Support (Score:2)
If Dell was smart they'd outsource the linux support to RedHat who already has an existing infrastructure of analysts to do phone support for Linux, and for whom a partner like dell would be big boon to the balance sheet.
Of course, its equally possible Dell will just fail to teach their voice-response system the word "linux" to keep their support costs down. They can't burn tec
Re:Support (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Support (Score:2)
Support. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Workstations" not "Desktops", you'll note (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure you're right that Dell is keen to gently discourage the "average" user from buying these Linux boxes. Just look at the descriptions on the linked page: they're described as "workstations" (message: not one for Mom and Pop), and have suitably intimidating subtitles ("Elite", "Performance", "Advanced").
Then there are the descriptions of "ideal owner": "Demanding, price-conscious users requiring the power of a workstation over a desktop for specialized tasks". Again, it's a "get lost, n00bs" message
Re:Support. (Score:2)
Not really. Dell's customer support currently has a "15 minutes then restore" policy. If the tech on the line cannot solve your problem in 15 minutes, then you are instructed to restore the PC to the "as shipped" state via an image on the hard disk or on CD.
That puts a fixed upper bound on their support costs, regardless of the operating system being sold. Dell does not have to provide "how to use" Linux support any more than Dell provides "ho
Re:Support. (Score:2)
Linux is still a pretty small target. I don't think a mass seller like Dell has any business entering that market, it would be better served by shops dedicated to Linux support.
Re:Support. (Score:2)
Re:Support. (Score:2)
Just because someone has grandchildren doesn't mean they don't know about computers (hell, some grandparents probably know much more about computers and OS's than anyone else).
I know a 'Granny' who's a pro. photographer and needs Photoshop (and other Win/Mac-only tools) for her work. How's she going to get by on Ubuntu?
Re:Support. (Score:2)
Re:Support. (Score:3)
Re:Support. (Score:3, Informative)
The rules haven't changed and, I suspect, the licensing deals are pretty similar. Mic
Re:Support. (Score:2)
Consider a co
Re:Support. (Score:2)
The way I see it, if you're selling support *plans*, guaranteeing everything will work smoothly and that you'll do everything to help if any help is required, instead of charging by the hour, then making your product better and minimizing necessary support resources is absolutely beneficial.
Don't Buy from Dell (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Don't Buy from Dell (Score:2)
But this is slashdot, ripping on Dell is cool. Here's a tip boys and girls: pay for good support and you'll get... good support. Crazy idea, I know. Ever use their Gold support? Here's a typical phone call.
1. Dial the US based number for Gold support. Very short hold times, if any.
2. Tell them the problem. Recent example: "The hard drive in one of the Optiplex GX620s that we just bought has failed. I ran the diagnostics and it reported
Re:Don't Buy from Dell (Score:2)
Oh, wait. Hard OCP [hardocp.com] reviewed an XPS and said that Dell's support was absolutely rotten, as usual. So much for paying a premium for Dell support.
Maybe Dell's enterprise support is good, but even "premium" consumer support is absolutely rotten.
Re:Buy from Dell (Score:2)
Gold does cost a few bucks more and the the machines are probably 2 to 5% more expensive than the consumer versions.
Also, if you buy the corp
Re:Don't Buy from Dell (Score:2)
There are plenty of other companies that sell Linux an (sic) no-OS machines.
http://www.addonshop.com/ [addonshop.com]
http://www.emperorlinux.com/ [emperorlinux.com]
http://www.ibexpc.com/ [ibexpc.com]
http://www.koobox.com/ [koobox.com]
http://www.linare.com/ [linare.com]
http://www.linspire.com/ [linspire.com]
http://www.linuxcertified.com/ [linuxcertified.com]
http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/ [linuxsyscorp.com]
http://www.microtelpc.com/ [microtelpc.com]
http://www.outpost.com/ [outpost.com]
http://shoprcubed.com/ [shoprcubed.com]
http://www.sub300.com/ [sub300.com]
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm [systemax.com]
http://www.walmart.com/ [walmart.com]
http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html [tuxmobil.org]
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre- [debian.org]
Re:Don't Buy from Dell (Score:2)
On another topic, I take it from your nick that you're a fan of Jeffrey Carver? I don't see too many folks who've read "Eternity's End", despite the fact that it's one of the greatest SciFi works of all time. (IMHO, of course.)
One Word! (Score:2)
Just for fun I tried http://www.dell.com/linux/ (Score:4, Interesting)
But it is interesting to note that on the http://www.dell.com/ [dell.com] page, there is nothing about Linux.
Maybe Dell could add a link to Linux on their root page? Just a thought.
Re:Just for fun I tried http://www.dell.com/linux/ (Score:2)
fair is- fair? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:fair is- fair? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:fair is- fair? (Score:2)
http://www.dell.com/windows [dell.com]
Error: The system cannot find the file specified.
http://www.dell.com/microsoft [dell.com] , however, leads you to a page much like the /linux one, and says that "Dell recommends Windows XP."
Re:fair is- fair? (Score:3, Insightful)
How about "Dell recommends Windows XP Professional" in big bold text at the top of every single page on the Dell website (other than, as you spotted, the homepage itself)
Re:Just for fun I tried http://www.dell.com/linux/ (Score:2)
Why publicise? (Score:2)
Re:Why publicise? (Score:2)
Novell Connection (Score:2, Interesting)
Because (Score:2)
Silly question..... (Score:4, Interesting)
Why doesn't someone tell me why Dell screws my company out of hundreds of thousands of dollars each year selling them overpriced server equipment? Or why the Dell reps attempt to bribe our IT department with cash and free laptops if they'll continue to purchase only Dell equipment.
Or howabout why our Dell contract reads that installing any non-dell equipment on our network violates our warranties? Or how we can't put non-dell ram into our desktop machines, even when Dell has no ram available to sell us.
Dell can go fuck itself. It makes all its money by ripping off companies, bribing those that do know better and lying to those that don't. Not to mention the shit hardware they deliver...
Go ahead and order 10 identical desktops from Dell. You'll get 10 boxes that look identical on the outside, but you'll be pleasantly surprised to find they've got 10 different motherboards and ram configurations in them. This is AWESOME for imaging disks! fuck dell.
To make it more personal I'll mention that my company is one of the largest fast food chains in America, so depending on how you look at it, Dell is directly responsible for high priced fast food. Revolt!
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Not only "can", but "must". Publicly held company, legal responsibility to maximize profits, etc.
Your company getting ripped off is just another symptom of a culture-wide problem: once a company goes public (Google notwithstanding, because they've established 1) they don't give a flying fig about the stock price, and 2) their shares are distributed in such a way that a shareholder revolt is both unlikely and difficult), the focus goes from "How can we build customer relationships that wi
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Indeed. What was the reasoning behind the decision to ditch the public charter and switch to "maximize profits or jail" model. Does anyone have any good book material or references that discuss this? I don't know too much about it but it seems to be a big problem. And how exactly do they define "maximize profits"? Clearly, corporations make donations to, say, the Red Cross which I assume bolsters the corp.'s image. But it seems there would be many grey areas between "this will boost profits NOW" and "
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Because your company buys it? If it is costing your company hundreds of thousands, perhaps IT consultants should be hired that can stop this unnecessary spending (though if it is like any other company, reducing your budget = lower budget next year which is not favorable either..)
Or why the Dell reps attempt to bribe our IT department with cash and free laptops if
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Unfortunately it seems to be a problem that plauges all large companies, constant waste on these sorts of purchases.
I just paid 20k to dell out of my projects budget for a server that I priced out for about 9k if I built it. Obviously dell offers warranties and such against the hardware, but does anyone have an opinion on whether this is
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2, Funny)
Taco Bell must run linux.
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
I work for a place that got fed-up with Dell as a supplier. So they switched to IBM. IBM charged about twice as much for the same systems. But they gave various kickbacks so long as we only bought IBM hardware. Those kickbacks involved joint marketing, discounts on future purchases, and I don't know what else. The problem was that the IBM computers were terrible. And when all of the techies complained, the company did the analysis and determined that the kickbacks weren't worth it,
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
IBM, at least used to, do all that (Score:2)
I worked for IBM, for a while, some time back. Everything on that list was practiced by IBM.
I wonder if it isn't just common practice within the industry.
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Re:Silly question..... (Score:2)
Probably has something to do with those purchase orders your company keeps sending them.
Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop... (Score:3, Interesting)
It doesn't matter which version of Windows you run (okay, not necessarily with '95, '98 or something even more ancient) you can install the same
Just to give a single example, something as simple as a CPU temp monitoring app, turned out to be a nightmare. I spent 3 days trying to get a couple of them installed. Never managed to pull it off, despite passing tons of messages back and forth on linuxforums.org
There are other things about Linux that simply aren't ready as well. On the other hand, there are areas where Linux has excelled beyond Windows, and that's terrific, but I generally see the failings in being the areas that affect your non-tech users. Ease of use, ease of finding apps, ease of installing said apps.
These issues need to be addressed and I have no doubt they will be. MS, for all of their faults, have done a pretty good job of making stuff easy to use. It comes, in part, from spending a great deal of time and money doing usability testing of their software.
Another failing in Linux is that, a lot of apps aren't terribly easy to use. Many Linux developers, especially for smaller apps, still have a tendency to focus on command-line apps. MPlayer, for example: An app for watching movies, is command-line. That makes no sense to me. Sure, I can get a front-end for it, but why don't they just include one so I don't go have to find one that: A> I can manage to get installed and B> That doesn't suck? Command-line should be the secondary method, not the primary method.
Most non-tech users don't even know Windows has a command line. They don't need to know. That's a good thing.
Re:Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop. (Score:2)
.
It's true -- Windows is definitely easier to use. The network transparency makes it really good -- I can fire up an xload on my remote machines and see how they're doing, or even tunnel my Windows connection over SSH for complete security. Oh, wait, you don't mean X Windows?
In seriousness, reading your complaint I think that you may simply be trying the wrong technique. You shouldn't be t
Re:Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop. (Score:2)
I think your first point generally addresses that: most vanilla installs of the bigger distros (Debian / Ubuntu, Red Hat / Fedora, Suse) pretty much take care of those choices for you, unless you want to start exploring. The adventurous user has the option to explore, while the generic user just uses the stuff that's installed.
The adventurous user is in
Re:Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop. (Score:2, Insightful)
I really have to say, install Ubuntu, enable Universe and Multiverse and fire up Synaptic, then come back here and say that
Plus the fact that 99% of drivers come pre-installed.
There are still areas that are unnecessarily difficult I'll grant you. Multimedia configuration for a start, but I've now reached the point where if someone I'm going to have to support, my parents for example, wants a new OS, I'll try to move them to Linux. On
Re:Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop. (Score:3, Informative)
"something as simple as a CPU temp monitoring app, turned out to be a nightmare."
Hmm. "a
Re:Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop. (Score:3, Informative)
Having recently had to start using Windows after 5 years of not touching it, I can tell you that Windows is *exceptionally* unusable from my point of view. It's just nowhere near as userfriendly and capable as Linux.
On the other hand, with Linux, you usually have to get the executeable for your specific CPU if not your CPU and flavor of Linux
Yes, whereas Windows is far better because it onl
Re:Maybe 'cause Linux isn't ready for the desktop. (Score:2)
Imagine if in the 80s and 90s each vendor had their own take on UARTs. Yes, there were some variations but more often than not a RS-232 device "just worked". Because of that many devices were created that extended the computer era. E.g. modems, mice, printers, plotters, joysticks, primitive networking :-), etc, etc, etc.
Funny, I have a quite different memory of the '80's! Most of the "standardization" you seem to feel was obvious wasn't accomplished until the latter part of the decade. Prior to that,
Maybe they don't want to explain the prices.... (Score:2)
Re:Maybe they don't want to explain the prices.... (Score:3, Informative)
You get 3 years of RH support with Enterprise WS, and you pay for it. the pricing is about $180 for the OEM copy of RHEL WS, which is about similar to the OEM price for XP Pro.
Just because it's linux doesnt mean it's always cheaper.
Thanks! (Score:2)
Thanks for all the proof you provide to support this claim. I've been wondering when someone would just stop spouting "support costs more!" gibberish and provide some evidence that it does.
First and foremost these are not consumer machines (Score:2)
However, businesses are a different story. For the most part(cue cynics) you are going to have people who know what they need and will go straight for it. Why shoul
Re:First and foremost these are not consumer machi (Score:2)
I am sure their linux desktop sales are less than 5% of their annual sales and thus not important enough to pay attention to. Wait 12-18 months, until udev/hal/dbus/*DEs are polished, the vista hype has subsui
Dell would not need costly Linux support (Score:2)
Dell would need to do only two things, at minimum cost:
Costly? Indians make about $20 a week (Score:2)
Re:Dell would not need costly Linux support (Score:2)
The goal would be to get RedHat or SuSE to do all the software support, right? Supplying binary modules is way too much customization for that plan to succeed. Those would taint [tux.org] the kernel, and no other vendor is going to support that.
Same - Same (Score:2, Insightful)
Why should they have to? (Score:2, Troll)
They are a company. They can do the hell they want with their products. Michael Dell is making more money than you are, is making more people more money than you are, is making more people more money than any other hardware manufacturer
Re:Why should they have to? (Score:4, Interesting)
Damned straight.
And we are customers, and we have demands. We have the right to demand what we want, just as they have the right to refuse us. That doesn't mean we can't write articles detailing how coy Dell is being with their Linux desktops. We can write whatever the hell we like, especially if it's the truth.
They are a company. One would hope they listen to their customers, try to keep their customers satisfied. I would further hope that people with money to spend would demand the things they want, as loudly and publicly as possible.
His right to do what he wants with his company supercedes your right to see the word "linux" on the front page of dell.com.
That doesn't mean we don't have a right to demand it.
You seem to advocate quiet, sheep-like customers. I advocate just the opposite: demanding, loud, annoying customers. Demand Linux on the first page! Demand we don't pay a Microsoft tax! Demand we get what we want to get!
Let Mike Dell do whatever he wants with those demands. That's his company's right. But don't try to silence the customer. It's not called "supply and demand" for nothing.
Re:Why should they have to? (Score:2)
But don't try to silence the customer. It's not called "supply and demand" for nothing.
Aren't enough of you to matter. (I don't buy computers...)
Re:Why should they have to? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is all way too reminiscent of the whole Massachusetts-forcing-Walmart-to-carry-Plan-B, most slashdotters tend to oppose the government mindset and yet when it comes to linux they fall right into that mindset.
Where in the post or the thread did someone ask for a government bill demanding Linux marketing from Dell?
Re: (Score:2)
Vendor lock-in (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft says to the vendor, "If you will put this 'We recommend Microsoft Windows' line in ALL of our advertising, we will pay you $$$ out of our advertising budget." The amount paid is large - large enough to pay for a good chunk of the vendor's advertising.
However, the catch is that ALL ADS, bar none, must have this logo. So even is what is being sold is a Linux server, the "We recommend Microsoft" has to appear. Also, the vendor is ST
stop making sense (Score:2)
Re:Vendor recommends that you have no choice (Score:2)
These add campaigns target the retail market.
Win MCE for home use, Pro for the office. It's that simple.
Here's why. (Score:2)
Been wondering for years.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Application Support (Score:2)
From the mentioned website, during the configure process, you have choices of business software you would like to add to the workstation. Last time I checked, none of these ran on Linux systems yet. Choices include
1. Avid Express DV
2. Adobe Video Collection Standard 2.5
3. Adobe Premier Pro 1.5
4. Adobe After Effects
Because consumers don't care. (Score:2)
ANSWER: to start flamewars on Slashdot (Score:2)
Dell is not always the best deal anway (Score:2)
Market factor? (Score:2)
Look at the description of one of these linux systems:
Ideal owner: The most demanding users requiring elite dual-processor power, cutting-edge features and plenty of room to grow
"Elite dual-processor power." Hrrrmmm... Something tells me they aren't aiming this at your average home user. This is aimed at the basement hackers that have been bitching about Dell not selling anything but Windows on their desktops. It's a way for them to still sell hardware to geeks that don't feel like building their own
Comparison (Score:2)
Once you get enough experience, you take the training wheels off.
AOL is dying as users become more sophisticated. Windows will too. It might take longer, but it is just as inevitable.
My five year old daughter uses a Linux machine almost every day, and does not use windows.
I own a Dell PC... (Score:2)
Dell not promoting Linux to run on their machines is a net positive. Not that Linux won't run on them, it's just that most of the hardware is really bad stuff. You can't polish a Dell turd by sticking Linux/MacOSX/*BSD on it.
Why Dell and others won't promote Linux (Score:2)
Or, better still, why doesn't Dell just start offering one Linux distribution as an option on their complete desktop line?
The reason is that, when push comes to shove, "Dell recommends the use of Windows XP Professional" on its desktops.
So I, for one, think that the real reason Dell keeps the Linux desktop at arm's reach is that it doesn't want to t
No change in UK (Score:2)
Our customers in some cases demand Dell hardware. In some other cases they require three years of next-business-day hardware support, and about the only manufacturer from which this is available at a reasonable price (in places like downtown Bangalore, for instance) is Dell.
Dell have been extremely unhelpful when it comes to supplying systems with linux preinstalled. For an example, see Exhibit A [dell.com] showing v
Obvious: fear of Microsoft license increases (Score:2)
Per-processor licensing is still happening.
What more promotion do they need? (Score:2)
Seriously though, walmart has been selling linux PCs for a while now without hyping them as much as the anti-MS crowd would hope. If you feel a company has a good product, give them some of the best advertising they can get... word of mouth!
Re:Dell is not stupid. (Score:2)
The amount of profit/marketshare in selling Linux desktops is far outweighed by the cost of promoting them.
Make a small link on their homepage.
How much could that cost?
Re:Dell is not stupid. (Score:2)
Especially if you don't market it.
A few years ago, the common cry was, "There's no money to be made in Linux servers." Now Linux servers are a $5B/year market, increasing at a phenomenal rate (still double-digit increases last quarter).
This is an interesting year, in that Microsoft will release a version of MS-Windows that pressures big companies to upgrade their desktop hardware; the new version of MS-Office will produce documents that are not backwards-compatibl
Re:promote linux? to whom? (Score:2)
*Way* more to it than that (Score:2)
Big companies don't usually give a rat's ass if a desktop has a pentium or amd chip. It's all about support contracts, reliability, ass covering, and the like. Big companies feel much more comfortable working with other big companies.
Re:In the year 2000... (Score:2)
I love Dapper as much as you, but:
* Beagle is in universe, and thus not supported by Ubuntu
* On my box, depending on current update status (some days it works), Beagle makes mono use 100%
* Xgl is in universe, too
* While nice, Xgl has a whole lot of issues. Have you tried connecting a second display?
* The technology is not mature yet at all, and it seems RH's AIGLX project has a good chance of being the winner (since it's championed by Xorg and Nvidia)
Re:The bar is going up again (Score:2)
The good news for those waiting for Vista is that it'll just be another 3-5 years before MS releases the next version after that, which should catch up pretty much to OSX (But the Macs will be on, what...OS XIV?)
Re:HP dx5150 (Score:2)
I too would beat the shit out of my machines if I saw any one of them running Windows.