4th BC Century Defensive Wall Unearthed 168
An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo News is reporting that Greek archaeologists have discovered a 2,600 meter defensive wall whose design was 'inspired by Alexander the Great.' In addition to the wall itself 4th-century BC bronze coins were also found inside the structure. From the article: 'The discovery was made in the archaeological site of Dion, an ancient fortified city and key religious sanctuary of the Macedonian civilization, which ruled much of Greece until Roman times.'"
Strange wall design puzzles archaeologists (Score:5, Funny)
News for Nerds? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:5, Funny)
Nah, reread the blurb, it says it was to protect Celine Dion.
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:4, Funny)
It was there to protect us from Celine Dion.
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:3, Funny)
Because you're too smart to understand the former yet too stupid to understand the latter.
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:2, Funny)
Lesson from history (Score:2)
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:5, Informative)
Would it be possible to create a new 'history' topic to post stuff like this under? I mean currently its listed under 'Science', and I don't think the Einstein picture is really relevant. I'm not saying it isn't interesting, just that it can be classified better.
Re:Archeology is a science (Score:2)
Re:News for Nerds? (Score:2)
"Macedonian civilization" (Score:1, Informative)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Regarding the language, you must be talking of Ilyrians or Thracians.
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:1)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:3, Insightful)
There isn't enough of the Macedonian language preserved in extant sources to say for sure what sort of language it was, but it clearly was not Greek, whatever else may or may not have been true of it. And no classical
it's more complicated than that (Score:5, Informative)
To the extent that the Macedonian Empire created much of what would become the "Hellenic World", Alexander was certainly Greek almost definitionally.
that's the same time period (Score:2)
How about the Olympics? (Score:2)
compelte in the Olympics. It is a fair
indication that if Makedonias were invited to compete
with other Greeks, then Makedonias were also Greeks.
Please remember that Larisa is only a short
distance away from Pela (Makedonia), and Larisa
was a Greek city famous for it horsemanship --
the Kentucky Derby of ancient times. On the
surface, it seems more probable that Makedonia
was considered Greek among the Greeks.
Re:How about the Olympics? (Score:2, Interesting)
Basically only Greeks could compete in the Olympic Games, so by that token they must've been sufficiently Hellinised so as to warrant participation in the Games.
Later on the Romans were allowed to participate but that's much later.
As to the Macedonians' 'Greekness' personally I imagine they were Hellinised but did maintain some difference.
Plutarch and Arrian (biographers after Alexander's death) both mention instances of
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Well, that's a safe presumption, don't you think?
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
This is opposed to the possibility that Minoan is either some language we already know or related to a known language. For instance, people have proposed that Minoan is (very) archaic Greek or Phoenician,
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Linear A is meanwhile deciphered. A german did it 2 or 3 years ago, however I'm not sur eif it is confirmed. Herbert Zebisch has a book about it on mazone, not sur eif he is the guy who "claimed" he has deciphered it.
angel'o'sphere
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2, Informative)
Linear A and B are used for writing different languages. Linear A, the older of them is in a undeciphered language which is clearly not related to Greek or any other indo-european language. Linear B has clearly bee
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:2)
Linear A doesn't appear until after the apparent collapse of Minoan civiliation (see the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org], which seems to be pretty good. Conquest by Greek speakers is consistent wit
I assure you... (Score:2)
Now also, as an American, I can say the Balkans baffle me. They're the biggest failure in modern state-building. People in the Balkans like Ibrahim Rugova, self professed "President of Kosovo" feel like they must split their already fragmented country
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Macedonian civilization" (Score:1)
ahref=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_G reatrel=url2html-22488 [slashdot.org]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
completely unrelated (Score:2)
Alexander as a God (Score:5, Informative)
Upon his death his generals squabbled over the conqured lands, individually taking control of various areas. The Ptolemy reign of Egypt ended with the conquest of Egypt by Julius Ceasar and his taking of Cleopatra as his lover and mother of their child.
The true legacy of Alexander was the Hellenization of the ancient world. The ancient Greek culture was idealized and emulated by the Macedonians, (hence Aristotle as teacher to Alexander), and Alexander spread the idealized version of the ancient Greek culture throughout the lands he conqured.
Re:Alexander as a God (Score:1)
Yeah, he brought Hellehn to it and back again.
"I seem to be a verb." - Buckminster Fuller
Not anymore, I'm afraid.
KFG
Re:Alexander as a God (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Alexander as a God (Score:5, Interesting)
I stated he was worshipped as a God by many ancient peoples, this for the most part followed upon his death. You are correct though, he did wish to be treated as a God. Although he showed considerable diplomacy, or, perhaps more accurately pragmatism, in treating with the kingdoms he conquered. He kept the ruling parties in power, married into the ruling elite and coerced his generals into taking wives from the conquered elite. Certainly what little that is known about him suggests he was meglomaniacal. There are sources that suggest he murdered his father.
Interestingly Alexander's deification was in some lands blended with the Greek God Dionysus. Dionysus is remarkable as the ancient western archetypal Christ. The Greek God Dionysus was a God of rebirth in some areas and as such was an ancient version of the Christ figure who is reborn. The King reborn was known throughout lands from India to ancient Greece. In part of what is now India the King would rule for eight years then feed his flesh to his people, thus dying but being ritually reborn in the next King. A similar act lies behind the Catholic act of taking Communion. The idea incorporated in the idea of a Christ figure ties in with the idea of transcendent reason, or Logos. Logos was an idea borrowed by the fathers of the Catholic Church. "In the beginning was the word" (I forget which book of the Bible the quote comes from) but in adopting the idea of Logos, or transcedent reason as God like the Catholic Church fostered the critical, accurate reasoning that would give birth to science.
While Alexander spread cultural plasmids throughout the ancient Greek world and the East, his teacher Aristotle, was adopted by the Catholic Church as the epitome of reasoned insight and so influenced the West perhaps more than any other one man.
Re:Alexander as a God (Score:1)
Re:Alexander as a God (Score:2, Funny)
You know you're good... (Score:1)
Re:You know you're good... (Score:2)
Meanwhile, on the Greek island of Crete (Score:5, Interesting)
I couldnt think of anything funny to say about this new wall, so I figured I'd post something serious.
Interesting stories. (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, it is precisely because there are people who do hand in such amazing discoveries that so much is known about the ancient world. There are many sites, throughout Europe, which were discovered precisely because of a reported find leading to a study and finally an excavation.
I have often been critical of archaeologists, and the current state of Italy's archaeological remains doesn't give me much confidence in the competence of world heritage organizations either. Many of the major sites are at the point of collapse, one section of wall at a major site DID collapse last year and would have killed a few hundred tourists if it had happened during the day. Emergency repairs, required within the next year or two, will require between ten to twenty times the money budgetted for ALL Itallian archaeology and maintenance for the next decade, simply in order to prevent massive casualties.
Discoveries are of the utmost importance, proper excavation and documentation are vital, but all of that is useless if proper preservation of finds is ignored. The exceptionally fine ancient monument returned from Italy - a massive obelisk that had been plundered during World War II and was in exceptionally good condition, was smashed into three pieces in order to return it on the cheap. If this is the way things are going to happen in future, the Rosetta Stone will be returned to Egypt as a fine powder - the Egyptians can always glue the grains together again, after all.
Sorry if I sound cynical - well, maybe not entirely sorry. I have a very hard time reconciling demonstrable gross incompetence and money hoarding with any kind of respect for heritage or history. As I've said often enough before, we have many possible futures. Futures are a dime a dozen. We can take our pick of those. However, we only ever have one past. Lose that, and it's gone. You don't get another go. Whatever is destroyed is lost and can never be replaced.
Hey, for some things, that probably doesn't matter too much, and there's just too much history to preserve everything 100% from the information level through to the artifacts themselves. The world is only so big and we're running out of room as it is. Besides which, it is really the information that matters anyway, provided you have gathered as much as is practical and lose as little as possible.
In the "perfect world" (at least, perfect in my highly opinionated world view) no effort would be spared to gather all the information that technology can extract, with that information distributed as widely and as freely as the available technology supports. After that, artifacts become relatively unimportant and sites become more useful for tourism than for study. Provided they don't fall down.
I'm not seeing that kind of study going on, though. The new burial site that has been found, for example - there should be plenty of DNA and mDNA that can be extracted for testing to get an idea of the ethnic makeup of the people of the time. They could even put the mDNA markers up on one of the numerous DNA family history sites, to see if living relatives exist and to encourage a greater participation by average folk in the whole archaeology thing. People will be far more willing to invest a little extra time and money on a project if they feel involved - even if only highly superficially - than they will if it is purely seen as the idle musings of some University types with a trowel fetish.
The pendant is another good example. Gold i
Re:Interesting stories. (Score:2)
Re:Interesting stories. (Score:2)
I have yet to meet an archaeologist who makes millions (though I can dream). At least in recent years, and with increasing awareness of and support for antiquities laws, the choice is between a difficult sell on the black market or stiff fines, if not jail time. You'd pretty much have to be mad to keep it (also add Indiana Jones "This Belongs In A Museum!" quote here).
Ok, guess I can see that. (Score:2)
Re:Ok, guess I can see that. (Score:2)
Found buried? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Found buried? (Score:1)
Alexander the great (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:1)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:5, Informative)
People like Napoleon or Hitler get a lot of style points reduced because of the short time(historically speaking) it took to beat them.
Re:Alexander the great (Score:2)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:1)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:2)
Christ, get a fucking life. You've been pretending to stalk me for years and you don't even have my right middle initial.
Re:Alexander the great (Score:2)
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what comes from an entirely euro-centric history curriculum. Perish the thought that other things have been happening in the whole rest of the world (and depending where you look, for a lot longer and with no less complex cultures or social structures.) I guess people just can't get enough of Waterloo.
Re:Alexander the great (Score:2)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:2)
If that is supposed to be a reference to my post, you need to develop a sense of humor.
Re:Alexander the great (Score:1)
You don't know much about history do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghengis_Khan [wikipedia.org]
Re:Alexander the great (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:2)
Re:Alexander the great (Score:1)
How did they find out? (Score:3, Funny)
How did they find out this? Was there a writing on one of the rocks? Something like:
(c) 400 BC - Patent pending - A. The Great
4th Century *BC* (Score:4, Informative)
Re:4th Century *BC* (Score:2)
From TFA:
Bronze coins from the period of Theodosius, the 4th-century AD Byzantine Emperor who abolished the ancient Olympic Games, were also found hidden inside the wall.
Sounds like the wall was under construction for over 800 years. Or the later Romans did some extensive modifications.
Mod Parent Up (Score:2)
Seems like /.'s sloppiness regarding AD/BC was actually a good decision =P
Not 4th Centrury, but 4th Century BC (Score:3, Insightful)
This article is talking about the 4th Century B.C. or B.C.E., however you want to designate it.
Re:Not 4th Centrury, but 4th Century BC (Score:1)
Re:Not 4th Centrury, but 4th Century BC (Score:1)
And now! For the real story.......... (Score:3, Informative)
Built into the wall were dozens of fragments from statues honouring ancient Greek gods, including Zeus, Hephaestus and possibly Dionysus, archaeologist Dimitrios Pantermalis told a conference in the northern port city of Salonika, according to the Athens News Agency.
Early work on the fortification is believed to have begun under Cassander, the fourth-century BC king of Macedon who succeeded Alexander the Great. Cassander is believed to have ordered the murders of Alexander's mother, wife and infant son, Pantermalis said.
The wall's design suggests that it was "inspired by the glory of Alexander the Great in the East," as the young king sought to emulate grandiose structures encountered during his campaigns, Pantermalis told the conference.
Bronze coins from the period of Theodosius, the 4th-century AD Byzantine Emperor who abolished the ancient Olympic Games, were also found hidden inside the wall.
The discovery was made in the archaeological site of Dion, an ancient fortified city and key religious sanctuary of the Macedonian civilisation, which ruled much of Greece until Roman times.
Prior excavations at Dion have already revealed two theatres, a stadium, and shrines to a variety of gods, including Egyptian deities Sarapis, Isis and Anubis, whose influence in the Greek world grew in the wake of Alexander's conquest of Egypt." End quote.
It sort of answers it all doesn't it?
Alexander the interesting bit, not 4th century (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Alexander the interesting bit, not 4th century (Score:3, Insightful)
Every continent except Antartica has archaelogical records stretching back more than a few hundred years. Architectural records, too - which is what I think you meant to imply.
Bronze Coins (Score:3, Funny)
I've got it! (Score:1)
Off by 8 centuries... (Score:1, Informative)
+50% defense (Score:1)
so it'd be obsolete by now anyway.
Who was the greatest conquerer? (Score:2)
http://www.hostkingdom.net/earthrul.html [hostkingdom.net]
However, those are by country, not by conqueror. I suppose the real measure would be, not what one single ruler ruled over the largest area, but what one single ruler grew his domain by the largest amount during his reign. And that was probably Genghis Khan.
Still, the type of resistance that the likes of Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great encountered in their campaigns is far different from that of, say, Napolean
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Myself included, many nerds have an interest in classical civilisations stretching back to their studies of Latin at school.
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:2)
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:3, Funny)
Relevence? (Score:1)
A lot of medicinal applications and names come from latin
Every day phrases you've probably heard:
"Quid pro quo" - something for something (I think I have that right)
"Caveat Emptor" - buyer beware
"Veni Vidi Vici" - "I Came, I Saw, I Conquered"
"Carpe Diem" - sieze the day
"Carpe Cervisi" - sieze the beer.. ok so that one's not every day
and then theres a bunch of abbreviations, e.g.:
c.f. "compare"
et al. "and others"
e.g. "for example"
i.e. "in other words"
vs. "against"
and then
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:1)
Re:But can you run Linux on it? (Score:2)
"Yahoo News is reporting that Geek archaeologists have discovered a 2,600 meter defensive Wall..."
I wonder what diet Larry follows to grow to that size...and wether he is defensive about the onslaught of Python or the delay of Perl 6.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Difference (Score:1)
You see, while the language the ancient macedonians used was different than the athenian dialect, which was the most wide-spread at the time, most linguists share the view that they are pretty closely related.
And while some of their traditions, etc might have been different from other greek city states, the dwdekatheon (the twelve gods - zeus etc.) is what they believed in too.
We mustn't forget that the rest of
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Difference (Score:1)
If I recall correctly, both countries have a neighbouring province in Belgium/Iraq respectively with the same name, and there must be more examples. I've never heard anyone propose "South Luxembourg" or "South Kuwait" although they may very well be more correct.
Re:Difference (Score:1, Informative)
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
I'd say "find another bridge to sit under" but you'd prolly have to have some knowledge of history to decide what was a good bridge.
This is both News for Nerds, and Stuff that Matters. Go away. Sit under your crappy bridge and wait for the Billy Goats Gruff.
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
Re:alexander was good, but not the greatest (Score:1)
Eh? She is the modern reincarnation (Score:2)
Many European societies (Score:3, Interesting)