Get Out of Voice Menu Pergatory 343
renx99 writes "I don't know about you, but I hate calling tech support, and the worst if the wait. Paul English felt the same way and has put together a list of shortcuts on how to get to a human quickly. If enough people bypass these phone systems, maybe the big companies will finally get a clue and start providing real customer service again..."
IVR Guide (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, big companies will simply introduce more sophisticated system. I think people get carried away and forget who is still behind and in control of the system.
And I do believe companies do want to provide real customer service, this whole phone system thing is merely herding clueless customers to designated areas, it's not going (and unable) to answer questions anyway, you will eventually talk to a human being.
Moreover, some companies already have their own IVR guide, for example a bank here [maybank2u.com.my], this is something to be encouraged.
Re:IVR Guide (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, there's a ceiling on how advanced the systems can get. If things seem to be getting completely FUBARed, there has to be a choice made on what the default is. If the input completely flies in the face of what the program is expecting, the system designer has to make a choice as to how he handles the customer. Short of a call system capable of passing a Turing test, he can either A) drop the call and say "I'm sorry, the system can't figure out what you are doing. Tough. *click*" or B) pass the call on to a human who can intelligently handle the situation. I'm willing to bet in 99% of the situations where five '0' presses result in five "I'm sorry, that's not a valid option" replies, and the sixth connects to an agent, it's the system playing it safe.
Random button smashing usually denotes a fed-up, pissed off customer, and that's the last kind of customer you want the system to simply give up on.
Re:IVR Guide (Score:2)
Evidently you don't work in customer service. Fed-up, pissed off people are who I don't want to talk to. Also, stupid people are who I don't want to talk to. Obviously, a phone system is going to end up controlled by the owners who want to make profit, so step one is for customers to quit businesses that provide poor service, stating poor service as the reason
Re:IVR Guide (Score:2)
I can see how someone on the front lines wouldn't want to talk to them, but (as you've said) the executives paying for the system want the system to cost them as little as possible, and make them as much as possible. Making them as much as possible usually means keeping customers, even if they infuriate their customer service reps.
As for stu
Re:IVR Guide (Score:3, Insightful)
Customers needing to circumvent voice systems could be costing a company more money in customer service costs than they generate in profit. A large faceless corporation peddling commodity products might be advised to let such customers take their business elsewhere.
Re:IVR Guide (Score:5, Funny)
I hear you. I am a doctor, and I just hate talking to sick people. They always whine that something hurts, or even worse - they bleed all over you. Geez, if you want to talk to someone, just make sure that you don't have bones sticking out of you.
Telus (Score:3, Interesting)
This works best when customers clearly identify themselves to the IVR on the way in. It changes dynamically however when a customer simply "pounds zero" or makes other attempts to avoid the recognition system, by making them the
Re:IVR Guide (Score:2)
Re:IVR Guide (Score:2, Interesting)
They can't get rid of customer service completely, but you know they all want to. They can, however, make it as hard as possible for you to contact them. Have you tried to find the customer support number on the website of a big company lately? If you have and you found it, I congratulate you. A couple of years ago I would have killed to have the list in TFA just for the 1-800 numbers it contains. I've spent days tracking do
Re:IVR Guide (Score:3, Insightful)
They can't get rid of customer service completely, but you know they all want to. They can, however, make it as hard as possible for you to contact them.
That's true enough. They are also making it as hard as possible to communicate if you do manage to get through to a real person. I recently went through a phone menu maze only to wind up at a dead-end and started pounding "0". Then I was connected to "Harry" who had a passing acquaintance with English. It took me several minutes to make him understan
Re:IVR Guide (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:IVR Guide (Score:2)
Re:IVR Guide (Score:3, Informative)
The systems are set up though to only deal with the broadcast standard accent, which I think is the problem.
Re:IVR Guide (Score:4, Informative)
1 - When an IVR tells you to speak your choices but doesn't say you can also punch them in, most of the times you actually can punch those in. In fact, on some IVRs what happens is that a speech block is matched and then translated into a keystroke and the program proceeds.
2 - IVR programming is mega bucks. People spend millions of dollars, analyzing call center efficiency, developing IVR applications, developing CTI routing strategies and developing desktop applications (in_house/standard CRM packages and so on and CTI enabled desktop apps).
Most IVR apps that we encounter are seemingly 2-3 level deeps menus with a good 5-6 options that we can hear. In reality, some of these applications contains thousands of IVR pages, a page being a menu choice of a voice playback that you hear. Some of these IVR applications take months to develop and months to test. It is normal for a customer to initiate a project in January and be going live with an IVR application in December. It's a lot of work.
3 - Speech recognition mostly happens today using Nuance, BBN, and Speechworks products. IBM and MS speech recognitions engines are not used for such applications. A lot of times the choice is limited depending on what IVR platform is used. Many times there are corporate standards or partnerships or loyalty to one platform and it forces all newly acquired and other owned entities to switch to the same platform. This also causes millions of dollars worth of business to call center service providers.
4 - Some business people who decide on the menu items and the layout for the IVR, actually allow barge-thru (speak while IVR is speaking or press a number). These people also allow you to zero out and hit the operator. They will even allow customers to say operator or agent anywhere and be thrown out of the IVR and into the agent queue immediately. Sometimes, they will try to convince you to pick a choice but if you insist on pressing 0 they will connect you thru.
People on the other end of the spectrum will force you to listen to everything and anything they can imagine. They will not allow zero'ing out. These people don't mind dropping the call if the customer doesn't get with the program.
There's people in the middle of this spectrum also.
Sometimes, federal/state/local law requires that certains anouncements must be played or certain conversations must be recorded or blah blah. Sometimes, it is applicable to one kind of business and not all. So it gets complicated.
Some IVRs as part of the OS, will just crash out and route you to a default queue if you keep pressing 0 like there's no tomorrow. But you may end up at the wrong queue and be put back in the correct queue.
Re:IVR Guide (Score:2, Informative)
Even though I am Icelandic I speak very good english like most other people in my county (we are tought it from the age of 9.)
But of course I have a slight accent and I could never get out of the first menu. Who in hell thought that this could be in any way more reliable or easy than simply having a touch button menu. I really can understand why they would have some form of computer service to answer and do
Re:IVR Guide (Score:3, Informative)
One pointless system to another (Score:2, Insightful)
I wish customer service wasn't dead....
Too bad... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Too bad... (Score:3, Interesting)
Choose now.. (Score:5, Funny)
for a poke in the eye with a sharp stick press 2
for another menu of annoying options, press 9.
Thank you for calling tech. supt. for...Leet Radio (Score:2)
http://www.leonine.com/voice/ [leonine.com]
Re:Choose now.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Choose now.. (Score:2)
Not all evil (Score:5, Insightful)
Then again, maybe I'm the exception
Re:Not all evil (Score:2)
Companies should spend more time trying to improve customer service. A lot of companies people deal with on a daily basis have no stores or salesman. The only interaction between the customers and the company is through customer service. As more industries sell items that might as well be a commodity, what will separate them in the future is loyalty brough
Re:Not all evil (Score:2)
If not, you get the automated system which covers every option under the sun and deals with things automatically. Whilst reporting a phone fault, all you had to do was key in the appropriate number and the system automatically line tested, dec
Sure thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
Voice menu cuts expenses. In addition, tech monkeys will probably not have to guide step by step the granny that doesn't know how to configure her outlook.
Now there are customers that will happily hang you on line for hours just so their problem be solved quickly; don't even think of telling the customer that the problem is somewhere else.
As long as terms and limits of service are established and understood by both parties, you'll get poor service and support jobs will always be underpaid.
A Rather Clean List (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:A Rather Clean List (Score:2)
So, while I don't know about swearing, I think its likely that might work on the newer systems.
What I'd really like is the option to turn off their mind numbing Muzak
Please press Star (*) to disable Muzak
Re:A Rather Clean List (Score:4, Funny)
Cool, so all we need to do is say "fuck" in Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kashmiri, Kannada, Konkani, Malayalam, Marathi, Oriya, Punjabi, Sindhii, Tamill, Telugu and Urdu.
Re:A Rather Clean List (Score:2)
Great (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Great (Score:5, Interesting)
"Das, who quit the job after four months, said she learned to dislike Americans. "Rarely, there are people who are good," she said by e-mail, "but then others remind me that all they believe in is cursing, and they don't have respect for others.""
two sides to every coin my friend
Re:Great (Score:2)
Re:Great (Score:2)
Actually, my experience (as a Sprint PCS customer) with call centres in India has been positive. It's the workers in the US who are clueless. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it was a couple of years ago. Since then I have been more reluctant to call customer service because the wait times can be ridiculous.
Re:Great (Score:3, Interesting)
My latest experience was with Comcast, which does have a U.S.-based call center, and I found the reps to be obnoxious, rude, and prone
I don't mind them. (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't mind automated systems, most of the time. Given the choice between waiting 10 minutes for a human to take my call, and an automated system instantly picking up, I'll take the latter. 90 percent of the time, the automated system is perfectly adequate, and a lot of time
Re:I don't mind them. (Score:3, Interesting)
To reach a customer support representative... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:To reach a customer support representative... (Score:2)
Pergatory? Um, yeah (Score:5, Funny)
No way will this work (Score:2)
Re:No way will this work (Score:3, Insightful)
I always genuinely need to interact with a human being. It's the company's job to know their product and mine to just use it. I am going to explain what I want in natural language and THEY can figu
AT&T Wireless had to be the worst ever!! (Score:3, Funny)
Everytime my bill would show up with more charges than I expected (i.e. every month) I'd call the 800 number and would have to listen to many many many minutes of a woman with a croaky "I'm so up-beat and busy I'm losing my voice" voice talk about all the really great services that AT&T Wireless had to offer, all put to some jangly disgusting up-beat "boy band" pop soundtrack.
They used the same voice and music for almost two years and I swear it nearly drove me insane.
The problem was there was no way to avoid having to listen to croaky becuase you had to listen attentively for a human to pick up the call and feebly attempt to fix the problem.
Sometimes I'd have to listen to this stuff for 20 or thirty minutes at a time.
There is a happy ending however. AT&T Wireless got bought by Cingular and the croaky voice, and music, have gone forever because all the bugs with my bill seem to have been fixed so I don't have to call anymore.
Thank you to whoever fixed my bill.
FedEx (Score:4, Insightful)
The worst (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The worst (Score:2)
Re:The worst (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The worst (Score:3, Informative)
The phone system might have been set up for software that doesn't exist anymore or is not used in all locations. I worked for a company where this happened. The phone system asked you for the phone number on the account and then I asked them for the same thing. When the compa
UK numbers? (Score:3, Insightful)
Rant enabled:
There is nothing I hate more than being redirected to a call centre in India or somesuch to someone who can barely understand what I say and I can barely understand what they say.
This is especially more important when i'm wanting to query a company on something complex that cannot be answered by them reading out an answer from a list of questions and answers. The moment you ask them a question that's not on their list it's headbanging against wall time as you hope to be transferred to someone in the English speaking world.
I'm not against call centres, infact curiously enough I recently got redirected to one in the USA (it may have been Canada) recently and they were able to get the answers I needed. I just hate the ones where I get redirected to a non-native English speaking country where they're reading from a script essentially.
I think the truly aggravating thing about this is that often you're on a phone line that's costing you (or the company you work for) money and the company you're calling are profiting from the call, it's actually in their best interests to get you on the line waiting longer.
Re:UK numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:UK numbers? (Score:3, Funny)
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
Mod Parent Up
Re:UK numbers? (Score:2)
NPR story (Score:3, Informative)
Customer service has no economies of scale (Score:2)
This problem will never be fixed. If you want customer service, do not deal with a large organization. Customer service has no economies of scale, and will thus be worse the larger the organization you're dealing with.
I make a post about it in my blog [livejournal.com].
KCAL 9 has a video story of this. (Score:3)
Ditto (Score:2)
They broke it down and said that:
1. A live Cust. service rep can cost $1 a minute
2. Indian call centers can cost $0.40 a minute
3. Automated voice systems can cost $0.15 a minute
Oddly enough... they save 666% by using an automated system instead of a live U.S. rep
It's about getting MY way (Score:3, Funny)
It is not that bad (Score:3, Interesting)
So, such systems aren't universally bad. The only thing they need is the option to talk to a live person and any given point in the menu. That would make the customers feel secure and calm - sufficiently so that they don't necessarily use it always.
I heard that there is a secret code.. (Score:2, Funny)
Or was that something else.
Re:I heard that there is a secret code.. (Score:2)
Highlighted in This Is True on October 30 (Score:2)
Your call is important to us..... (Score:2, Interesting)
Your call is important to us.....
If that really were so companies wouldn't have fired 2/3rds of their staff and got a flippin' computer.
Keep track of the ones that screen your call into areas away from their profit centers. If you get no luck with their customer service dont be afraid to call their sales desk etc... You're still talking to people responsible to the company word of honour and if you bug them enough they may actually help.
If your call is reall
Why not call backs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why not call backs? (Score:2)
It's so simple, why isn't this more common?
Because the corporations don't want to pay the few cents to call you back. Yes, it's that simple.
Re:Why not call backs? (Score:2)
Re:Why not call backs? (Score:2)
So instead they pay a few cents for you to hold on their 800 lines?
I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that there's some price-break on 1-800 numbers that makes it cheaper for Joe Average to hold for 5-10 minutes before his 6 minute problem-solving session, than to call him at home for those same 6 minutes.
I have no monetary details, just some brief info here [gaebler.com].
Re:Why not call backs? (Score:2)
Now the likely true reason for them not doing that is that even with an automated dialer, the agents would waste a whole lot of time listening to voice mails, busy tones, or waiting on hold themselves while Little Johnny goes and fetch dad from the back yard, etc. With the
Re:Why not call backs? (Score:2)
It's simply another option added to their tech support menu.
Re:Why not call backs? (Score:3, Insightful)
I had that happen the other day. I was calling Verizon about my malfunctioning cell phone but I was using my phone to call Verizon because it's free that way (and I couldn't find the 1-800 number). The tech guy asked for my number and he called me back after I got off my cell phone. We got disconnected, unfortunately, and that was the end of that entire tech suppor
Some times the humans suck too (Score:3, Insightful)
In a few cases, I even prefer the menu system, for straight forward queries that I just need to provide a meter reading, or get a list of transactions. Once I know the menu route, it's quicker than dealing with a human.
911 Emergency Calls? (Score:2)
Well, back in the day.... (Score:2)
Of course, they fucked that all up by then changing it to asking you to speak your options - that never worked.
PROGRESS!!!
If my call were so important to them (Score:4, Funny)
If they cared.... (Score:3, Insightful)
To use our superfantastic automated system press one now. Otherwise, press two or stay one the line and someone will answer shortly.
And for those humans who get calls, listen to what is asked of you and respond to that, not what you want to respond to.
I hate it when I ask if X is in, only to be transferred to their extension which gets me to their voicemail which I then hang up on because I need to know if they are in.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
all the best,
drew
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/85937 [ourmedia.org]
Tings - a nanowrimo 2005 CC BY-SA novel in progress
The Cost of Clueless Customers (Score:5, Insightful)
The cost of having one clueless human talk to another is enormous. The cost of having a well educated and knowledgeable employee who can directly deal with said clueless caller's problems is even higher.
In fact, let's face it, if you are a highly knowledgeable employee, doing support work is not the most desireable job in the world. Who wants to deal with whiny clueless end-user's problems all day? You would have to pay a premium salary to keep these people from moving to more interesting jobs.
Are you willing to pay (a lot) more for convenient customer support? Conversely, are you willing to talk to someone from India (or whereever), who could be more knowledgeable and more able to deal with your problems, at a lower cost, albeit with a sometimes difficult accent and/or attitude?
Another option is charging people who insist on having their problem solved immediately, and allowing others, who are willing to state their problem and wait for someone to get back to them, a less expensive service.
As a previous poster mentioned, IVR systems at least allow calls to be organized and routed to knowledgeable individuals to facilitate cost efficiency. Computers can answer and route calls far more cheaply (if the system is designed well) than people can. That's why the phone company charges you for operator assisted calls.
Product and Customer Support is expensive, especially for complex hardware and software systems. Perhaps every piece of software and hardware could come with two different prices: A higher one that entitles the user to convenient, high quality customer service, for a limited period, and another that provides a cheaper product but with a lower quality of customer service. This might serve to set the customer's expectations better than the current one-price-fits-all approach.
Hmm another re-occuring dream (Score:2)
Define something please... (Score:3, Funny)
Voice enabled IVRs, among other rants... (Score:2)
Darn!! (Score:4, Funny)
My solution - GET EVEN! (Score:2)
Seems like the wrong place for this article..... (Score:2)
sometimes it makes it worse (Score:2)
Not quite that easy (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately it is not quite that simple. I work as tech support on IVR products, and I can tell you that what this is suggesting is really just an arms race. The big companies are more than anxious to get you out of the IVR and to a real person if that's what you need. They are simply trying to avoid wasting valuable human resources as switchboard operators and dumb terminals. The problem is that, as any emerging technology, the wrinkles are still getting ironed out.
I am perfectly aware that IVRs are not new technology, but the more advanced CTI along with TTS and ASR capabilities that are growing up are making it so that it should actually be easier to get the action or info that we need more quickly. As this matures although these companies do track "0-outs" and abandons as metrics of the success of their IVR systems, they are also tracking full callflow, and they are certainly willing to listen to suggestions or even all-out complaints if they can use the data to improve service, reduce wait times (think "trunk") and more effectively use their people.
Don't just 0 out - complain!
Simpson's (Score:3, Funny)
[Bart presses randomly]
You have chosen "regicide"! If you know the name of the king or queen being assinated, press 1!
don't call or just email (Score:2)
I shop at the local physical computer shop, they answer their phone, and if I walk in I get served.
Otherwise use online support and complain about the crappy phone service.
Buy a speakerphone, call at odd hours (4am is good)
Best way: Swear at voice systems (Score:3, Interesting)
The third time I finally got too frustrated and started swearing as soon as the computer answered. The voice paused for a few seconds, then said "Ok, a representative, one moment please."
I thought it was a brilliant idea. Recognize when the customer is getting pissed off and then get him to a human ASAP.
So who's going to pay for it? (Score:2)
So, you'd rather get straight to a real person. Who do you think's going to pay for that? Will they absorb it out of their profits, or pass the cost onto customers? I think I can guess.
Yes it's a PITA, but it's the price you pay for cheap goods.
(This doesn't explain why Apple does it of course
remind me of the purpose of this automation? (Score:2)
When will we get out of spelling purgatory? (Score:3, Informative)
did the dell thing (Score:2)
From a rep's perspective (Score:3, Informative)
And that is one reason I am starting to dislike "customer service". You get lots of utterly ignorant people, and the ones that can't read or write are often the ones that can't understand the spoken word. "I can't help you right now, I will have to ask my supervisor to look at your situation and call you back in the morning" Conversation should be OVER, save a few niceties. Quit arguing with me, it's just killing my stats. I can't help you, bitch/fuckwit.
So I just imagine the pain of those in their organizational silos, getting people that insisted on talking to the wrong person. It's their job performance that suffers- all the stats for incoming and outgoing calls are recorded. The more out calls, and the longer the calls, the more likely you are to get canned. Plus, I get to have a person on hold while I'm on hold with another department. WTF? Misery insists on having company to listen to elevator music.
If you're pissed off about a phone menu, don't make the reps suffer. Tell them politely, or better yet, write a letter about it. Take your business elsewhere if you hear of better service.
But for the love of #random deity# just press the buttons and be nice to the rep.
Re:From a rep's perspective (Score:3, Informative)
"I want this problem dealt with NOW."
Let me be clear: I hear that ALL the time. I deal with everything from account inquiries / trouble shooting to life-critical apps. For the record, I do level I work but unsupervised night-shift (some L2 responsibilties) and deal with fuels. Yeah, explosive stuff.
If you have a dangerous situation, I have full authority to do whatever it takes to get you help. If you're arguing, it's because y
Don't press anything (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I always find... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not true. The cost of long distance service is very cheap:
Even if the company pays 5 cents per minute (which is very high) for toll-free service, the cost to keep someone on hold is 60 x 0.05 = $3.00 per hour. Most tech support monkeys in the US make more than that. And if you're paying 3 cents per minute, the cost is $1.80 per hour.
Tech support costs less over
Re:I can handle a reasonably constructed... (Score:2)
Re:The Worst (Score:2)
Re:Offtopic /. mystery (Score:2)
Re:Look at Amazon.com on the list.... (Score:2)
Trying to scare your customers off eh? It's really mind blowing to have to watch your tounge as soon as the line is answered, instead of starting into the default blue streak about how you can never speak to a human when you call one of those darned lines.
How I'd love to hear a tape of customer's first words to a help line that no one but the switchboard hears...