Massive Layoffs At AOL 565
JLavezzo writes "Several news sites are reporting that the United States' largest ISP has laid off 750 employees. My sources at AOL put the actual number at approximately 950 regular employees and 300 contractors from various departments including new technology and marketing. The contractors aren't mentioned by the news outlets. Severance packages are known to include up to four months pay and keeping laid off employees on the AOL payroll through February (to retain health insurance). With most of the layoffs coming from the Northern Virginia offices, what are their hopes for finding new jobs?"
"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Funny)
Bah, you kids. Back in my day (2000), we didn't feel right about going to lunch unless we'd shitcanned at least 1000 people by then. And two months on the payroll plus four months of severence? Bah! Back in my day you were lucky if you didn't have any personal possessions in the building when it was locked and the contents auctioned off on behalf of angry creditors.
We *knew* how to make employees feel worthless. Layoffs via SMS! Contracted goons standing in the office in case they went postal! Taking away their razor scooters!
Now get off my lawn, you damn kids.
Breaking News.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Interesting)
They had 3 programmers working on winamp, he never did work on winamp, only shoutcast.
They also had a visualization skin programmer too.
They were all fired, and he's the only one left, and sole programmer of Winamp now.
I've brought several bugs to his attention, but he just can't keep up doing it all alone..
He tells me that he expects nullsoft to be terminated soon because it's definately not making them any money. He says the only reason AOL bought them was so they could compete with Media player if they decided to push advertising for it. Kind of like netscape competing with IE.
I asked him what he'd do if he's fired... he said he's probably start delivering pizza again, cause he's looked and looked for a job to transfer to and can't find one.
He worked for Pheonix bios for several years, and if you have that bios your system is likly running code he's written.
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Expectations of a McJob. (Score:5, Insightful)
The minute they start making any significant amount over what thier used to after graduation they go out and run up credit card bills, buy toys, a nice car a nicer house, and so on.
If they were to keep thier standards of living simular to what they had in college till all thier student loans were paid off and just save any extra and keep thier outgo (especially long term outgo such as house payments) down below what others at the same income level are doing they would find themselves much better off. Keep a credit card if you must, but never put on it more than you can pay off when the bill comes in.
You'd be suprised how much you can save.
I saved about $3k in 8 months on a 24k a year job by simply not replacing my pos car right when I could, never using a credit card, not buying every toy I saw, not having cable tv, no longer trying to have a bleeding edge PC (I've given in a little there since then). I didn't really short myself much (not having cable tv GAVE me time as well as freed up $$) I still ate out some, hung out with my friends, saw a few movies, bought a few games and read several good books.
Of course if you have kids soon out of college the picture changes more than a little bit.
Mycroft
Re:He can't get a job, thats nothing.. (Score:3, Insightful)
If that was software that YOU wrote then they're probably more concerned with your reactions to anything they might ask you to do with the code, fearing you might dissagree with something and start in on "I WROTE this so I know your wrong and I'm right", or possibly that you might think your intimate knowledge deserves more pay than they want to spend (which it likely would to be honest).
Also the fact that you're going from a one man company to an employee m
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Insightful)
This was rumored for a while, right? Like these articles [slashdot.org] from 3 weeks ago [slashdot.org].
The Winamp guys have my sympathy, but they will find jobs if they try hard enough. If I can get a job (Laid off twice since 2000, I will be laid off next year, my coworkers are leaving for other jobs before they get laid off), the programmers of one of the most famous pieces of software will also find jobs.
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:3, Insightful)
A. For someone who knows both an open source technology and a technology that most open source advocates would rather gouge their eyes out than look at,
B. For someone with a computer background in Orange County,
C. For someone with a computer background in Orange County,
D. All of the above.
Don't list MS SQL. SQL is SQL, for the most part, administration notwithstanding, and it isn't hard to learn administration, generally. Heck, don't list ASP, either. Advertise a
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Funny)
So you worked for Acclaim, I gather?
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:2)
Either that, or Metricom.
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:2)
The part about the goones at least I know to be true!
-nB
[that damn 2 min timeout should not apply across threads!!!]
Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Admittedly, as I'm cleared, I have a far easier time finding work in DC Metro, but this area is about as recession-proof as it gets. . .
Yeah, clearances help, but Homeland Security is hiring people, either directly or as contractors, by the metric butt-load. DOD is growing, as are some new dot-coms in Northern Virginia.
Now, if you're in Marketing or Biz Dev, it may be another story. . . .
Re:Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's see. You are a Windows administrator
(probably with an MSCE cert), and have a
security clearance.
Guess what? Since DHS has settled on MS
OSes (read some irony here), AND you have
a security clearance, then I wouldn't wonder
that you are getting calls from headhunters
every day.
I have been staring at the VERY SAME "WP" job
postings from government contractors for the
past 1-1/2 years: the same title, job code,
location, and scope of duties == same job,
which cannot get filled because they are
looking for current active TS/Poly/Lifestyle
security clearances. These contractors will
not hire uncleared personnel and "park" them
somewhere until they get vetted for the security
clearance (in 1-1/2 years and $50K USD later).
If you are a "*nix" administrator w/o a security
clearance, you are SOL. I should know. While
I did come from desktop & server support, I had
spend 7+ years on various "*nix" (HP, SGI, SUN,
linux) servers and workstations as SA (plus CM
and Deployment). Those jobs ARE NOT here anymore.
I don't know what the RIFfed AOL employees will
wind up doing for employment, but at least they
have some breathing room with the 4 months pay.
They could make a gamble and go into debt to go
back to school, but I wouldn't recommend that
personally. IMHO, the IT job situation is ONLY
going to get worse (along with any high tech or
many manufacturing positions.) And between the
growing national debt and the horrendous balance
of trade deficit, I expect the the old halcion
days of the Carter administration will come back
to haunt us -- with the state of the economy
measured as the "misery index" (of unemployment
rate, interest rates, and inflation rate).
The Federal government has embraced outsourcing
as "good for the economy", with a corporate tax
structure that encourages moving jobs offshore.
The destruction of trade unions, as well as
forcing USA wages lower, appears to be the agenda.
BTW: When the unemployment runs out, the jobless
do stop getting counted. And one part-time
McJob is just as good statistically as the IT
job lost. What we are witnessing is the slow
disintegration of the USA's middle class.
Actually, I'm not.. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
In other words, I'm NOT a one-trick pony. I style myself a "Network and Systems Admin", NOT a Unix admin or a Windoze admin. Flexibility is
Re:Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have no issue leaving the US, perhaps you can explain to me which country wants to make me a citizen the second I hit their land so I can get a job without issue. Moving to another country to find a job when you are disadvantaged (being a non-national) and there are still an abundance of employable locals is not a desirable situation for anybody. The reason people fl
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:2)
Speaking of "welcome to 2000" (Score:5, Funny)
See, that's why I've been honing my aggresive driving, sword-fighting and other misc. pizza-delivery skills: Jobs that can be done overseas will be done overseas.
Re:Speaking of "welcome to 2000" (Score:3, Interesting)
Now I don't think Raven ever much thought about Hiro except when Hiro made himself a target. Hiro chased him down in the bamboo farm, Raven didn't even bother to see if his impromtu spear hit paydirt. At the raft, Raven only showed up long enough to kill the with man with Reason, the only one Raven saw as a threat. Sure, he tried to give Hiro the virus at the Black Pyramid, but he was trying to give every hacker
back to their previous jobs of course (Score:2, Informative)
Re:back to their previous jobs of course (Score:3, Insightful)
It's always a sad thing when someone gets laid off, but it's been a long time coming at AOL. They've been hemorraging money and, IMHO, being irresponsible with their
Re:back to their previous jobs of course (Score:5, Informative)
Obligatory Slogan Reference (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Obligatory Slogan Reference (Score:5, Funny)
750 is massive? (Score:3, Funny)
Besides, hasn't anybody of worth left already?
Re:750 is massive? (Score:3, Funny)
contractor positions available (Score:2, Informative)
boo (Score:5, Funny)
750? (Score:3, Insightful)
It shouldn't take 750 people to run the entire company, let alone having 750 extra people hanging around that they really don't need.
AOL management is as stupid as their users.
FC link (Score:4, Informative)
Re:FC link (Score:3, Funny)
The poster was very kind to refer to it as FC...
New AOL Message (Score:4, Funny)
Merry F'ing Christmas (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Merry F'ing Christmas (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Merry F'ing Christmas (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Merry F'ing Christmas (Score:3, Informative)
If they have skills, they'll find jobs in NoVA (Score:4, Informative)
US (nation) for Oct 04: 5.1%
VA (state) for Oct 04: 3.2%
If these poor souls have skills, they will find jobs here. I doubt most of them have security clearances, but those that do will be immediately re-employed.
Helevius
Re:If they have skills, they'll find jobs in NoVA (Score:2)
Re:If they have skills, they'll find jobs in NoVA (Score:2)
Re:If they have skills, they'll find jobs in NoVA (Score:2)
And you can keep the Arkansas jokes to yourself. Whatever people may say about the state, NW Arkansas is actually very nice and where I live, pretty liberal.
Re:If they gov't jobs.. (Score:3, Insightful)
VA Gov. John Warner was the one making the
big announcement. The jobs are with DHS,
and will require TS or better security
clearances. If you are exiting the military
with a TS clearance, are in IT, and have an
MSCE (DHS is MS OS-centric), then NoVA is
the place for you.
I seriously doubt that the ex-AOL staffers that
just got RIFfed would be likely to have that
particular "skill set".
It is my understanding that a TS security
clearance might take 18 - 24 months these
days, particularly if it's Poly/LifeStyle
Not good news (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not good news (Score:2)
(Oh, if you're out of work for two years and finally a company offers, you're just as guilty as if hundreds of jobs are flying your way)
New commercials? (Score:3, Funny)
But with AOL on their resume.... (Score:5, Funny)
Manager: "So do you have any customer service experience?"
AOL Scab: "Well, I worked tech support at AOL for 2 years."
Manager: "We only hire people who will fuck up small stuff. We can't handle AOL sized crap here"
Getting New Jobs (Score:2)
Job chances? (Score:2)
As an interesting side note.. (Score:5, Funny)
Ok (Score:4, Insightful)
What's the point? 950 regular employees were just laid off for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER. What's going to stop the next employer from doing the same thing? What is the point of trying to build a career that can be stolen arbitrarily?
The economy is doing VERY well. AOL is not about to go out of business. They still have millions of subscribers and they are probably earning about $40M a month in subscriber revenue. If the company were about to go out of business, that would be one thing. This is just arbitrary.
It is standard corporate thinking. Just pick 1200 people and fire them. Who the fuck cares if they have mortgages? That's their problem. Short-term money grab thinking.
Disney did the same thing earlier this year. In fact, they fired an ENTIRE STUDIO that was directly responsible for NINE FIGURES in top-line revenue. Why? Because they felt like it.
This is no different. W-4 employment is a sham. No business would ever depend on a similar agreement for anything, especially anything upon which revenue depends. W-4 employment is unfair and obsolete, and layoffs like these are cruel, groundless and destructive.
Re:Ok (Score:2)
Re:Ok (Score:3, Informative)
"No matter what the provocation, I never fire a man who is honestly trying to deliver a job. Few workers who become established at the Disney Studio ever leave voluntarily or otherwise, and many have been on the payroll all their working lives."
--Walt Disney
Re:Ok (Score:3, Funny)
Have you been watching Fox News again?
Re:Ok (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ok (Score:2)
Nothing.
> What is the point of trying to build a career that can be stolen arbitrarily?
The point is to build enough savings that you can start investing those savings and make some money.
Once you've got enough cash in the bank, you look forward to being laid off. It's called "retiring, and they give you a couple more weeks' pay as
Re:Ok (Score:2)
AOL doesn't randomly lay off people, they specifically lay off the bottom 10%. Every company should do that. People who aren't capable of being in the top 90% of a group probably need encouragement to find new employment.
Re:Ok (Score:5, Insightful)
You may of course complain all you want about the whacked out corporate culture in North America and Europe, and I'll probably agree with you. It is whacked out. But your solution, making employment an entitlement, is even further out past the fringe of reason.
Did you want AOL to provide "make work" employment for these people? Send them out back digging holes in the morning and filling them back up again in the afternoon? Send them all out in vans to shopping malls across the country to hand out AOL CDs?
Re:Ok (Score:2)
I never said it should be an entitlement. Why did AOL hire them in the first place if they didn't need 950 employees? Being an employer carries a responsibility.
Did you want AOL to provide "make work" employment for these people?
Better than throwing them into the street after mortgages were signed.
Re:Ok (Score:3, Insightful)
I say this to the hypothetical person who is now in dire straits because he or she just signed a mortgage and then lost their job:
If you didn't know this was a risk when you signed the mortgage, then you're naive at best, and fiscally irresponsible at worst. As long as we're talking about "carrying responsibilities", how about some personal responsibility?
There are plenty of things YOU could've done to avoid finding yourself in such a
Re:Ok (Score:3, Funny)
(Sarcasm)
But it was America's duty to do their share after 9/11 and shop! To not consume was to be un-american!
What we have is short-sightedness.
Re:Did AOL sign those mortgage papers too? (Score:3, Insightful)
Because the BANK wanted to see the PAYCHECK from AOL as proof they could make the PAYMENTS.
That's between you and the bank, AOL had nothing to do with it. When you get a mortgage, you also must sign a piece of paper saying you read all the documents and understand them. There's nothing in those documents that says that AOL is responsible for the mortgage. YOU are.
So the employee gets fired and... AOL saves money The bank gets the house The employe
Re:Ok (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ok (Score:3, Insightful)
In the late 80's the idea came about that the only purpose of a corporation was to 'Maximize shareholder value' as direct result we have seen the corporate scandal's and offshoring an
ABSOLUTELY NO REASON? (Score:2)
If employees benifit, its purely a side effect.
Sounds like you need to grow up before you leave your parents basement and head out in to the real world...
Re:Ok (Score:2)
What's the point? 950 regular employees were just laid off for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER. What's going to stop the next employer from doing the same thing?
The free market system and a desire to finish IT projects and turn profits? Just a guess, since most corporations (you know, thos big evil things you blindly hate) need to employ people in order to get anything done.
Re:Ok (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely nothing, thankfully. That's capitalism. If something were to stop the next employer from doing the same thing, you'd be paying more for everything, and you'd REALLY be bitching. Especially since companies would be going out of business, companies you depend on.
What is the point of trying to build a career that can be stolen arbitrarily?
Stolen career? A career is "a chosen pursuit; a profession or occupation." While someone's c
In related news (Score:5, Funny)
AOL's too expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
When will AOL learn. People are leaving because competitors are offering cheaper and faster services. If you want to stay competitive, lower your prices. People are not going to continue to pay $23.90/mon. when they can get DSL for a couple dollars more, or dial-up for less than $10/mon. [aol.com]
Re:AOL's too expensive (Score:2)
Re:AOL's too expensive (Score:2)
it's actually not too bad, IMO (Score:2)
As a "portal", it depends on what you like. My parents like it, and I know some other people who do as well. The email is also easier to use than setting up POP3 or IMAP plus SMTP, especially if you want to use it from multiple locations, although with gmail that may no longer be a major strength (but most people who sign up for AOL don't have the infinite stream of gmail invite
Ah the irony (Score:2)
*watches post get modded away*
Hrm (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, I bet that whinny, nasally actress in the commercials playing the mother sneaking into the AOL boardroom is having a fantasic Christmas. She's probably making tons in residuals for one or two days work.
AOL must have spent hundreds of millions broadcasting those commericals, I hardly even watch TV and see them all the time. It's almost as bad as the promotional CDs that still pile up everywhere in my home.
1999 taught me never to trust a company that spends that heavily on marketing.
M
Mista Prezadint - where can I get a JOB? (Score:2)
Ask the president for a job:
well mr president - it's the bees and the spiders again - they stole my food stamps and sold 'em to the rats, and I tried to get down to my car to honk the horn for help, but the snakes are guarding it for the cockroaches! I go back upstairs but the spiders have jammed the police lock - I AIN'T BEEN INSIDE FOR A WEEK!!! And I know my wife is sleeping with the bees!!!!
But the good news is... (Score:2, Interesting)
hopes for finding new jobs? (Score:2)
Assuming these were tech positions, if you were a hiring manager would you look favorably on someone laid off from AOL with all of the other out of work tech workers on the market?
As /. knows AOL doesn't exactly have a terrific reputation among technical people.
Fact: (Score:2, Insightful)
Massive? (Score:3, Insightful)
This? Not a big deal, by comparison. I don't think the headline is misleading, but it is a little sensationalist.
I feel for those losing their jobs. hopefully they land on their feet and get decent separation packages.
Their chances in Northern Va? (Score:2)
Severance? (Score:2, Funny)
Woo hoo!
Their chances of finding work? (Score:2)
Getting fired in Northern Virginia isn't so bad (Score:2, Informative)
No.Va. has benefitted tremendously from the steady upswing in government spending post-9/11. Last time I went back and drove around a bit the number of new an
Old news (Score:2, Informative)
Project for the New American Century (Score:3, Funny)
Virginia, huh (Score:2)
Since when is 750 people massive? (Score:2, Insightful)
NoVA (Score:2)
If they don't mind working for the government, they're great. The area has a lot of tech jobs and potentially even more if the intelligence office proposed in the new overhaul bill has a technology component.
I however, am a government contractor in that area and don't want to work for the government anymore and the market is going to be flooded. Looks like I'm stuck working for the Man a while longer...
here's a suggestion for them.. (Score:3, Funny)
what are their hopes for finding new jobs?
I recommend they print up millions of copies of their resumes and mail them out to everyone in the United States. If they play their cards right, they should be able to get computer manufacturers to place an icon for their resume on the desktop of every computer sold. They should also cut deals with publishers to include their resumes bundled with mainstream consumer magazines. They should print their resumes on non-biodegradable media so that someone will start a website called "NoMoreAOLResumes".
Appropriate plug [nomoreaolcds.com] for above reference.
Don't blame the economy. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is NOT an economic failing when an antiquated dealer of yesterdays technology downsizes...And then eventually goes away.
Think about it. A majority of people are hooking up with local broadband dealers (cable, dsl, wireless), I would not be surprised to see AOL go the way of the Cart and Buggy dealers of old....And it will not be the economy that does them in, it will be the fact that their main product is obsolete.
Good, this will improve the lives of many employee (Score:5, Interesting)
This is how it goes: normally, it's your first "real" tech job. Before this, you were the guy your friends and relatives called for help. In my case, it was my first job, ever. No McDonalds, no BK or Gap, or Orange Julius in the mall. Straight to the tech world. Your parents will be so proud.
Then you actually start working there. The hell that is (nearly) 24/7 tech support with some of the dumbest people, both coworkers and customers, is nearly endless. You realise how large and illiterate most of America (nay, the world) really is. Not computer illiterate, the plain' old fashion kind.
You enjoy the banana splits every time the stock splits, but you're a part time employee 'cause you're workin' your way though school. So you don't get any stock. Your fellow coworkers try to plan a coup and go on strike, form a union or something (which is strictly forbidden in the contract agreement). But it falls flat and you watch some good men and women go down. You get a small promotion.
Then you get sucked into the workload, dumping your calls at 7 minutes, 'cause hey, you have an average call time to maintain. Fuck being helpfull, if granny's PC is taking too long to boot or you thought you'd try to blindly import her mail from Eudora or Caldera on an OS7 Mac, tough shit. She gets the dreaded call transfer.
By trying out some of our special offers, she can get a month of free service. No really, it is a good deal. The trust that we've maintained over the last 6 minutes is a great thing to shatter with that "please hold." Hopefully she'll hang on the line just long enough that she'll be the 10th tel-save today, lest your boss compare your marketing transfer scores to the woman with the honey-sweet voice a few cubes down.
Screw women, this is where you become a man. A hardened, overtly-bitter and disgruntled man. You also hone your skills in down pat. Everything can be done with your eyes closed "sleeping" at your desk, or shooting nerf balls at the hottie down the row. Don't worry, she'll never know it was you. The security guy at the front desk might, though.
It only takes a few months to hate all people and computers. But at 17-24 years of age it will look damn fine on your resume. Future employers will go "wow, AOL, huh?! How'd you like that?"
And like Michael Bolton, you'll tell them it was great. And you can't really pick out your favorite moment.
As for people over the age of 30 wearing birkenstocks or tie-dyed shirts, please don't. It's just sad. We know you like your Mac. It says so right on your shirt. And no, you're not really "the" mac daddy. But nice try.
Anyways, you needed a goot boot in the pants to get you into a "real" tech job. Because by now, you realise that AOL isn't. So mourn for a few days, then get your ass in gear. You've got Interviews.
Hopefully they will all be homeless (Score:3, Insightful)
The WARN Act (Score:5, Interesting)
Having been through a "massive layoff" in the bubble-burst days, one nice thing was that there exists the WARN act which dictates that if a company of at least certain size (which I'm sure Time Warner is) is laying off more than 50 people in one metropolitan area, they are obligated to give 2 months notice. For us this turned out to be two additional months to the severance, since the management doesn't really want you to show up at the office once you've been given your notice.
Overall this is bad news, since this area (VA/DC/MD) has now pretty much two kinds of techies - those who have clearance, and those who are unemployed, and the AOL layoffs sure do not help.
Re:Can't say I'm too surprised. (Score:2)
Re:Can't say I'm too surprised. (Score:2)
Re:Can't say I'm too surprised. (Score:2)
Re:Chances for Jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Chances for Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
Intriguing.
Re:Chances for Jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
Drug tests! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Chances for Jobs (Score:2)