Laser Injures Delta Pilot's Eye 772
stormfish writes "The Washington Times is reporting that laser light from an unknown source injured a pilot's eye as he was flying a Boeing 737 from Dallas to Salt Lake City. A 5 milliwatt laser pointer is strong enough to damage a person's eye, and stronger laser's are not that hard to come by. Unfortunately, having pilots wear colored laser safety glasses would be impractical as that would make it impossible to interpret the colored symbols on paper maps and cockpit displays."
Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Informative)
Class IIIa (>5mW) 532nm green laser pointer [thinkgeek.com] (ThinkGeek)
Class IIIb (>15mW) 532nm green laser pointer [megalaser.com] (MegaLaser)
Class IIIb 200mW handheld green laser [amazing1.com] (Information Unlimited)
It's even possible to get small, portable Class IV (potential instant severe eye damage, even from diffuse or reflected beams; this is the class of laser which also includes burning and cutting beams) lasers:
Various Class IV portable lasers [amazing1.com], including a small battery powered 2W diode laser (Information Unlimited)
The front windows of a commercial aircraft and objects in the cockpit could easily reflect and refract a beam from the ground in ways that would be at a minimum very distracting and unsafe, and potentially damaging to eyesight.
Information [stanford.edu] about [nih.gov] laser [bnl.gov] classes [fda.gov].
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Informative)
It's still possible to buy some but in a very restricted context.
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:4, Insightful)
For the hobbiest that wants to get higher power lasers, and the business that needs them, you are just creating unnecessary headaches due to the irresponsible actions of a very few people.
Stop! - Perspective Police (Score:5, Insightful)
42,000 people die in car crashes every year. 0 people die in laser induced headaches.
Lasers represent a threat matrix position of 0.00000% relative to the highest threat.
In fact by all accounts Lasers are less deadly than peanut butter.
AIK
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Interesting)
-nB
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:4, Funny)
Make sure you blindfold the pilots of your black helicopters as they fly in, so they don't get blinded by his laser...
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Insightful)
Security concerns not overblown but misdirected (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorism is not necessarily synonymous with mass murder-- i.e. either one can exist without the other. It is entirely possible that terrorists could be trying to make people *think* that they are vulnerable in the sky, thus spreading terror and poisoning the economic climate for the airlines.
Hell, terrorism could include anything from leaving empty packages market "bomb" in airport restrooms and sending letters to various random people containing cornstarch and a note with the word "antrax" on it to incidents like September 11th where nearly 3000 people were killed. The important component is not murder, but terror, hence the word.
There are vast numbers of potential items, such as the corn starch and cardboard boxes mentioned above, which could be used as improvised terrorist weapons most of which have indispensible legitimate uses as well. Indeed no level of regulation can keep an imaginative indivitual from being able to concoct a scheme which will play on our fears and make the public or the government conclude that a threat to public safety or health or an attack against the people or government is either imminant or underway.
Back to the question of lasers. Schematics for building lasers are available with a minimum of research. Sufficiently powerful lasers may also be able to injure pilots even without directly hitting the eye (i.e. the scattering of the beam via imperfections in the window or reflections off other surfaces inside the cockpit).
Finally if pilots *think* they are at risk of permanent injury, it may also poison the economy for the airlines. This is another way in which we could be vulnerable as a country to this sort of attack.
The real issue is that if we live in a society where cornstarch can be used as a weapon of mass terror then we have to re-evaluate our very notion of the role of government in protecting us from the terrorists. Indeed perhaps we need a greater public discussion about all issues involving homeland security and face these as a people rather than delegating this responsibility to the Federal government. Perhaps issues such as airline security, airport security, etc. are best handled by public discourse rather than secret regulation. The public is best equipped to handle the threat of terrorism when they know what the risks are and are able to freely debate and discuss what to do about it.
Such an approach has been generally successful in the realm of computer security, in the sense that zero-day exploits are not nearly as common as they might be otherwise. An approach of full disclosure of security measures and problems would help us combat the issues much more effectively. The attacks on September 11th certainly seem to indicate that Al Qaeda has performed extensive recon of our airport security measures, so the argument that such disclosure would undermine security holds very little weight for me. Indeed such disclosure may allow us to close the holes before they are exploited (unlike computer software security attacks, successful large-scale terrorist attacks seem to take many months or even possibly several years to plan and execute).
I am posting anonymously out of fear that such a post could place me on a no-fly list.
Re:Security concerns not overblown but misdirected (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, more afraid of your own government than of terrorists?
Me too.
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Informative)
Also I'd like to say that the story poster's alarmist warnings of 5mW lasers is completely unfounded. The extremely high (relatively, anyway) divergence experienced by almost all cheapo, poorly colimated 5mW laser pointers means the beam will be at least inches wide if shone on something as far away as an airplaine at thousands of feet up. The amount of light that can enter the pupil from a "legal" 5mW laser pointer at such a large beamwidth is distracting but totally harmless.
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Informative)
DANGEROUS ADVICE!
The presence of pain isn't a useful check. Eyes don't have pain receptors in the retna. Damage could have occured. This is one of the reasons you're told to never look at a non-total solar eclipse: the sliver of sunlight isn't bright enough to trigger your "look away" instinct and your pupil opens some, but the light is intense enough to burn slivers of your retna away....
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
int *b;
OUCH!!
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Soap, ballot, jury, ammo... LASER!
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Laser pointers not a risk to aircraft (Score:5, Informative)
A multi-watt laser with a decently large aperture and a TEM 00 spatial mode would be a different story.
Re:Laser pointers not a risk to aircraft (Score:4, Interesting)
I was watching a college bowl game a couple years back and noticed a light spot, about 5 ft diameter following one of the team coaches. It occured to me that some sh!t for brains in the stands was trying to blind the coach with a laser pointer. I wonder if they check for these when frisking people entering stadiums now.
In Clancy's Debt of Honor the crew of a 747 was blinded by agents with a high intensity light and it certainly occured to me that near an airport such a thing could post a considerable hazard.
Class IIIa lasers don't cause permanent injury (Score:5, Informative)
This has been debated for a while, but recent studies have borne out the idea that class IIIa lasers, up to 5mW, don't cause permanent injury to the retina.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd= Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1111526 6 [nih.gov]
Re:Class IIIa lasers don't cause permanent injury (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:3, Interesting)
Would it be practical to make the windows in the cockpit able to filter out laser light?
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easy to get these lasers... (Score:5, Funny)
Sharks (Score:5, Funny)
Oh the irony (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh the irony (Score:3, Funny)
lowercase J's
Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
"Lasers are easily obtainable and can be self-manufactured weapons in the terrorist arsenal, which essentially can effect a soft-kill solution and leave virtually no detectable evidence," he said.
I'm a private pilot, so I certainly won't make light of this problem. But please...is every new way to hurt somebody going to be another weapon in the terrorist arsenal? Are we going to assume that everytime something happens to someone, a terrorist is behind it? I for one am tired of our leaders trying to make us afraid.
And yeah, this is a rant. Mod me down if you will, before I strike again.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course. Someone must be blamed and the "terrorists" are easy targets. It's like the God fallacy... Because we have nothing to explain it a single "supreme being" must have done it.
What I want to know is can they install laser protective windshields instead of handing out the glasses? I mean, how often in this day and age do they have to tell colors from the cockpit window on the ground? Wouldn't that be an effective countermeasure or is it more beneficial just to ignore the problem because it happens so infrequently?
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:3, Informative)
Apparently YOU didn't bother to read the article.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Informative)
(Yes, I am a pilot)
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:3, Interesting)
Red is end of the runway. Green is the beginning of the runway. The pattern gives it away, not just the colour. You should be landing at the far end of the Christmas tree, which co-incides with the Green lights.
Secondly, the Blue lights... For a taxiway... By which time you have already landed... and it's obvious that the green lights in the centre are the centreline - you could do it colourblind.
White woul
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Informative)
I don't mean this unkindly...mostly. But if you really are a rated pilot, then you missed some very fundamental knowledge. Colors are extremely important. You may think you can reason it all out by context, but as you fly more you're going to realize that there are just too many different ways things are done in aviation. Color-blindness can kill. There's a reason you were tested for it when you took your flight physical.
You should also start working on, or reading up on your IFR rating, before posting about it. At some point, all but the most sophisticated aircraft need to transition between IFR and visual. (some commercial planes can literally land themselves) Sometimes it's only a hundred feet off the ground, but there is always a transition. And when you make that transition, things like the VASI/PAPI/etc (any multi-colored glideslope indicator) are extremely important to get right. Things like making sure you're not landing on a taxi-way are important to get right. (Even multi-thousand hour pilots have done that)
I'm guessing you're newly rated, in which case welcome to the club. But you're making some very dangerous assertions that I hope doesn't indicate a dangerous flying attitude.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the colors on the ground -- don't want to land on a taxi-way, now, do we? (not all runways have center lights or strobed threshold lights or christmas trees, and if blue and white look the same to you, it can be easy to mistake the taxiway for the runway -- hell it's happened to people who can tell the difference, but who are tired).
As for telling the difference -- remember your light-gun signals for when your radio dies? (And yes, during that power failure, obviously the radios were not working too well). You know; red, green, white. Quick question -- what does flashing red mean when you're in the air? On the ground? You shold know them all without looking it up. (On short final in a dark cockput with a flashlight in your mouth, left hand on the control column, right on the power, flying the plane (compensating for a crosswind), watching for the light signals from the tower, is *NOT* a good time to be looking up things like this -- even if it is printed on the cheat-sheet on your kneeboard under a stack of other paperwork.)
The long and the short of it is that flying at night color blind is just asking for trouble.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
My comment sounds flamish, I don't mind if it's modded Flamebait or Troll. But I'm just trying to point out the irony in saying the Terrorists have not won, and yet it's the American government that's trying to scare everyone shitless. I find it also absurd that people have to think up ways to make things safe because they are dangerous now. I hope everyone realizes that cars are terrorist tools, gasoline stations are as well, cellphones are also, computers also, heck even an everyday tool such as a screw driver can cause terror in supermarkets.
Sorry I'm ranting. Be happy =)
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Interesting)
I know you were semi-joking here, but this is exactly why many airlines require their first officers and captains to have different meals. It makes it that much harder for terrorists to take over a plane after slipping roofies into the food supply, because they would have to poison all the food, not just one particular dish.
p
... and stop calling me Shirley! (Score:3, Funny)
OMG! I totally saw a documentary [imdb.com] where this happened! The disease the crew got was terrible! The Physician Dr. Rumack described it this way:
"It starts with a slight fever and dryness of the throat. When the virus penetrates the red blood cells, the victim becomes dizzy, begins to experience an itchy rash, then the poison goes to work on the central nerv
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Informative)
It's amazing that your one info about pilots eating different meals is accurate, and yet you still think that airplanes have navigators.
Some old airplanes still have Flight Engineers (boeing 747-1/200s used in cargo service, 727s), but those are getting few and far between. Flight Engineers have never been "flight capable", whatever the heck that means (and yes, I have flown large products made by boeing from the left seat).
I am not sure when the last time a commercial flight in the USA had a navigator was, but, well, it was a heck of a while ago.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
However, this around it's the general media that's speculating wildly ... all the time.
The results of this Google search [google.com] are rather illuminating:
Terrorists could bring down US jets with hidden bombs
ABCNEWS.com : Officials Fear Terrorists Could Take Over Planes
ABCNEWS.com : Terrorists Could Get Cold War Weapons
Prescription Drugs | Terrorists Could Tamper With US Drug Supply ...
BostonHerald.com - Technology: Terrorists could find robot water guards
Pandagon: Terrorists Could Infiltrate Hockey
FuturePundit.com: Researchers Warn Terrorists Could Misuse Biotech
CNEWS - World: Terrorists could set off 'dirty bomb' ...
Etc. etc. etc. ...
Now, call me stupid, but why can't someone just come out once and for all and say: 'TERRORISTS COULD KILL YOU!' and then let people get on with their lives, like normal, rational people? I don't live in the US myself, but I imagine these endless 'warnings' all over the media, day in and day out, must get very, very tiring.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:4, Interesting)
I dont think planes are dangerous anymore. You will have to kill/injure everyone on the plane. Nobody is going to let you fly it like they used to. Honstly all we really need is anti air missiles. The damage is no worse then a couple of public bussess or a subway station. We are spending far too many resources just trying to look like we are doing something when we are just spinning our tires. There are a million different ways to kill alot of people. Focusing on one is pretty damn political.
I for one am happy that "things are getting better" and "the country is safer". Cause I see a lot more reason for people to be pissed at us then they were 3 years ago. And if I didn't know any better... But this is not a political message, cause I dont vote.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:5, Interesting)
Read the article. This wasn't a quote from any leader; its from a retired Navy airman who was hit in the eye with a laser during a recon mission and is arguing with the Navy Appeals committee to try and get a purple heart for it.
In other words, he has a vested interest in making the incident sound as scary and threatening as possible.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:4, Informative)
Unfortunately, there's nothing directly on this topic. There's things like
Likewise:
States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.
The moon and other celestial bodies shall be used by all States Parties to the Treaty exclusively for peaceful purposes. The establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any type of weapons and the conduct of military manoeuvres on celestial bodies shall be forbidden. The use of military personnel for scientific research or for any other peaceful purposes shall not be prohibited. The use of any equipment or facility necessary for peaceful exploration of the moon and other celestial bodies shall also not be prohibited.
Putting nukes in space is off limits, as is military activity on the moon.
I agree on the assholes part. The Russians were strongly convinced the Shuttle was a military vehicle, though. (And in fact, some of the capabilities of the Shuttle were required by the Air Force so they could go steal Russian satellites if they felt like it). IMO, though, pointing a laser at the crew of any aircraft or spacecraft with sufficient power to temporarily blind them is equivalent to showering them with gunfire; that is, an overt act with a strong possibility of killing or injuring the crew that could be considered an act of war.
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:4, Funny)
Are we going to assume that everytime something happens to someone, a terrorist is behind it? I for one am tired of our leaders trying to make us afraid.
Why do you hate freedom?
Re:Sigh...another reference to terrorism (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, I get tired of this too.
What amazes me is that during FDR's time, it was "we have nothing to fear but fear itself".
During Clinton's time, there were several thwarted attempts against America that was not publized (does anybody here ever wonder why 400+ FBI agents were flown into Seattle for Y2K? It was not to have a party).
Now we have a leader that only wants to point out how scarey everything is and how he is protecting us. Forget about the fact that
coat cockpit windows instead (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:coat cockpit windows instead (Score:5, Informative)
I would propose that actually physically seeing out of the window is less and less neccessary. At the same time oLED and plasma displays keep getting better. Why not recreate environment using cameras and flat displays? Sure it wouldn't look normal at first, but keep in mind, pilots all get certified on simulators.
Plus, it opens the door to all sorts of useful heads up display possibilities (porn).
Re:coat cockpit windows instead (Score:3, Informative)
Here was one demo. [rockwellcollins.com]
Here's a picture. [rockwellcollins.com]
Re:coat cockpit windows instead (Score:3, Insightful)
But not totally unnecessary. In the event of a systems failure, looking out the window may be the last resort to get the plane on the ground. Take that option away, and you're screwed.
Redundancy and graceful failure modes can help reduce the risk, but I don't think we're there yet to be able to completely do away with cockpit windows.
EXTREMELE BAD IDEA (Score:4, Insightful)
So exactly why would closing of the outside world be such a bad idea?
Aircraft instruments ain't failsafe. There have been countless incidents where instruments have failed not totally, easily spotted, but slightly (a direction finder slightly off, an altitude meter reading to high) off. Sure aircraft have redundant instruments and pilots are supposed to check but they don't. Even the fact that a plane got two pilots each with their own instruments has not proven enough in the past to prevent a disaster when the captain decides to follow his instrument readout.
So what does this have to do with windows? Well a look at the outside will quickly tell you a lot that you would take several instruments. Altitude, attitude, weather, air traffic, ground traffic. All pretty damn important.
Worse while pilots are trained to fly without outside references it does have the danger of the pilot loosing orientation. Thinking that up is down and such. I remember at least one crash investigation where the pilot was following his instruments into trying to correct the aircraft while he was in fact flying it straight into the ground.
So the above post is not informative. It is totally mis-informed. Pilots need their windows.
Re:coat cockpit windows instead (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:coat cockpit windows instead (Score:3, Insightful)
Any bright light? Like the sun?
Caution! (Score:5, Funny)
How many times do we need to tell people that
Ha... (Score:4, Funny)
Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
*cringes in terror*
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Now THIS post is offtopic, so mod me down if you want to.
Now that I've said to mod me down, I will most likely get modded up.
UH-OH, now that I've said both I'll both be modded down AND modded up, what will the predictible little mouthbreather slashdot mods do? I wonder if their heads will explode. Now that I've insulted the mods, I'm SURE to get modded down, but hell I've got karma to burn.
Friggin' lasers attached to their heads! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Friggin' lasers attached to their heads! (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, I read the article. It may well have been a laser? Intentional... I doubt it. Have you ever tried pointing a laser at a specific letter on a whiteboard? Try hitting somebody's eye through the window of a jet that's up in the sky, and furthermore moving, presumably right in your general direction. Takes a skill. These evil terrorists are so skilled these days!
Re:Friggin' lasers attached to their heads! (Score:3, Interesting)
The laser itself could be mounted on a tripod for stability and smooth control along with a rifle scope for aiming. Even allowing for movement of cockpit relative to the beam, you would have a reasonable chance of blinding a crew member given enough time and enough a
Probably going to only increase (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Probably going to only increase (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, anything you do to affect visibility of coherent light is going to affect the visibility of diffuse light. But you can do smart things with polarization and embedded diffraction filters; you'll get some amount of distortion, but you can probably tune the distortion o
Re:Probably going to only increase (Score:5, Funny)
Wasn't this a line from an episode of Star Trek?
Re:Probably going to only increase (Score:3, Informative)
Everything I know about the subject I learned from this article [naimark.net], where the dude points out:Guess I should have linked that in the original post. I just didn't want to use my google.
So, what you're really saying is... (Score:5, Funny)
"Colored laser safety glasses" (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"Colored laser safety glasses" (Score:5, Funny)
Simple. Equip every pilot with a pair of Joo-Janta 2000 Peril-Sensitive Sunglasses, that turn totally black at the first indication of danger! Joo-Janta 2000 Peril-Sensitive Sunglasses: Another fine product of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation!
Put on your tinfoil hats... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Put on your tinfoil hats... (Score:3, Funny)
alarmist story. (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly it needs to be mounted to a telescope for aiming.
The articel does not mention any laser facts but uses the word "laser" in an ominous way as to induce fear in the readers.
to cause that kind of damage to an eye, it either needs to be high enough power to cause damage and hit directly, if it's indirect, then it needs to be significantly higher power.
no your laser pointer will not blind a pilot from 5 miles away after it's power was reduced from the beam splitting effects of the windshield.
Right out of a Clancy Book... (Score:5, Funny)
No more ecstacy for the pilots........ (Score:5, Funny)
Next thing you know, they're smearing vaporub on each other and are struggling to find words to describe how awesome their faces feel right now.
Are they sure it came from the outside? (Score:3, Interesting)
Could a first class prankster have used a pointer through a small hole or something similar? Maybe the door was open?
Grasping at straws here.
I've seen this too -- it happened to me. (Score:5, Interesting)
On approach for landing in Seattle (I was just a passenger, not pilot) I was looking out the window into downtown Bellevue. From an area near the Bellevue main mall (hard to tell where exactly from 5000 feet, and 3 miles over) was some kind of laser light show, and the laser in describing its pattern for the show occasionally and momentarily came directly through the window, and directly in my eyes. Even this very brief exposure was painful, and my eyes had after-images for hours! The laser was green, so I assume an even higher energy than a red laser (don't know for sure).
Ever since that encounter I've always wondered if it was just an incredible fluke, or something that could happen easily again. Now I know.
me too (Score:4, Interesting)
This was a few years ago, I believe the airlines complained and the clubs were banned from doing it any more.
Re:I've seen this too -- it happened to me. (Score:5, Funny)
green = Rebels
red = Imperials
Clearly you were attacked by one of the good guys.
Re:I've seen this too -- it happened to me. (Score:5, Informative)
Navigator (Score:3, Funny)
oops.
Pilot Sight Destruction? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apparently the US was tracking a Russian "Laundry Ship" north of Canada because they somehow found it suspicious. A while later, the helicopter pilot that had been filming the ship came to the doctor having vision problems. Upon close examination, there was a grid of little damaged, scar-tissue-surrounded holes in his retina. Upon examination of the video, they found a brief flash that when freeze-framed proved to be a grid of bright little laser points that had flashed at the helicopter from the boat! So it's nothing new to use lasers to destroy the vision of expensive-to-train pilots. The question is, was this stray laser light or something intentional as was the case with the "laundry ship"?
~Ben
LDS (Score:3, Funny)
Article lacks enough information (Score:5, Informative)
There are rules and restrictions for directing coherent laser light up into the sky at night. You generally file a report with the center for disease and radiological health.
In addition to all of this, even with a 5 watt argon, at a great distance the beam will fall out of coherency. There is a big difference between a beam that is tightly focused / coherent, and one where the output is spread on a 12" circle (temOO?).
Another big factor is if the laser is moving real fast, once again the light is spread out...
The US has pretty strict laws on this stuff, where as other countries do not. You will see pictures of crowd scanning from high powered lasers in other countries, but you won't generally find crowd scanning above 5mw here.
There is more information about lasers at the laser faq site (google for Sam's Laser Faq). Laser-FX International also has a bit of information about laser show setups. I have some pictures of my 150mw argon-ion and large frame argon that puts out somewhere between 2.5 and 5 watts of power at my homepage ( http://users.757.org/~ethan )... Lots of pictures.
Without colimating optics, the laser beam from the 150mw argon spreads to 6" or more across at a distance of 1000'.
implausible (Score:4, Insightful)
From a distance of what must be miles away, aimed at a moving aircraft, you would need a laser that was orders of magnitude more powerful in order to damage someone's eye. Even with a powerful laser, you'd generally have to look directly into the optical axis to cause serious vision impairment. And while I haven't gotten injured by a laser, the few times I looked into one accidentally, there was little doubt about when it happened or where the light came from.
Even more implausible is the claim in the article that someone would "[continue] to suffer eye pain and deteriorating vision"; laser injuries to the eye do not cause continued deterioration and they do not cause chronic pain (here [nih.gov]).
The whole thing strikes me as wildly implausible. As the article above shows, apparently erroneous claims of laser injuries are fairly frequent. A more likely explanation is that someone is lying, perhaps because he wants to retire early or did something else stupid and wants it covered.
They actually saw the BEAM? (Score:4, Funny)
Now, please let me be the first pedant to point out that for them to have actually seen the beam inside the cockpit, then it must have been helluva dusty or smokey in there. Who were the pilots? Cheech and Chong?
Laser Availability (Score:3, Informative)
After a couple of hours on ebay, I was pretty shaken. Laser heads in the multi-hundred WATT (not MW) range are readily available to the public, no liscense no oversight. I asked a friend who does laser research about this, and he told me that while it was illegal to sell a high-powered laser to the public, the parts weren't restricted. So, a company can sell you a high power laser head, and next week the power supply, columnating lenses and whatever else you need, they just can't assemble it for you.
This is like saying that gun shops can sell all the parts for RPG's, but they can't actually load it for you!
Generally, I'm in favor of minimal govt. oversight, and I don't care for most gun-control laws etc. But NOBODY needs a 1500 watt UV laser for 'personal use' any more than I need tanks and howitzers for deer hunting! The add linked in previous responses showing a 200W laser-pointer shaped like a gun are just frightening. That's not a laser-pointer, it's a weapon, and I certainly don't want it pointed at me by some pimply-faced wanna-be geek trying to impress his friends!
Pay attention here... (Score:5, Interesting)
The plane's two pilots reported that the Boeing 737 had been five miles from the airport when they saw a laser beam inside the cockpit
If I read this right it says there was a beam (a visible point of light) inside the cockpit. This may not be the case, but it is one possible interpretation.
If this is the case it's pretty serious. Think about it. What kind of tracking system is necessary to get a laser beam into a cockpit window of a flying plane from the ground and keep it there long enough to be seen by the pilots?
Happened while I was in the Army (Score:5, Interesting)
From my limited contact with the optics in an M1 (courtesy a tanker buddy), I appreciate the extreme difficulty of keeping cross-hairs on a fast-moving target, and I seriously doubt that anyone could have hit the windshield of an aircraft in flight with a handheld laser. They would have to have been using some sort of stabilized mount and telescopic rig. Were there any military units on exercises in the area? Bored soldiers will do the stupidest shit. Trust me; I know from personal experience.
disability claim (Score:4, Insightful)
My guess is that they were screwing around with a laser pointer in the cockpit and the pilot got his eyeball fried.
Make the claim that you saw it come in while you were landing, and you've got a lifetime of disability payments.
non-linear optical filter makers, rejoice! (Score:5, Informative)
One countermeasure that was later looked into was to use a lens coating with a non-linear response - it remained clear for most light intensities, but went opaque almost instantaneously (in milliseconds) when the intensity went over a certain threshold.
The reason I know about this was that my nonlinear optics professor had an amusing story about being invited to give a lecture on his research in the US, only to find when he arrived that it was to a military lab with several times more people working on the field than the amount doing the same research, but publically.
No doubt some bright spark is thinking of trying to sell the same tech to commercial jet makers now, especially since the new invadee paradigm is to just let the Americans in, wait till they relax, then commence the guerilla warfare.
Healing the retina with light (Score:4, Interesting)
This [slashdot.org] story appeared on Slashdot a while back. It mentions the use of near-infra red light to actually stimulate the healing of retinal cells. NASA has more [nasa.gov] information [nasa.gov] about it on their website as well. Here is a quote from the New Scientist article [newscientist.com] mentioned in the Slashdot story...
It seems to be very pertinent to the situations of the Delta pilot and Canadian Navy helicopter pilot in the current story. Some [quantumdev.com] companies [thorlaser.com] make devices using this technology for medical purposes.
Witnessed this happen (Score:5, Interesting)
At the time laser light shows were the rage at the newly built casinos. Several had them, and all used green lasers whose beams were panned around the sky by motorized mirrors. As these casinos were built surrounding an AirForce base, they were supposed to have safety shutoffs that, during operations, would disable the lasers upon request by the base. An investigation found that these safety devices had been bypassed by maintenance personnel, including a laser whose safety shutter had been defeated by wrapping wire around it.
Needless to say, the laser light shows were dismantled quickly and were never brought back.
Fortunately, in this case, the optics spread the beam out with distance, instead of keeping tight collumination, so the pilot did not suffer long term damage.
These lasers were in the range of 50W, not some little 5mW laser pointer. Their beams could be seen for miles orthogonally and would paint patterns on the underside of clouds over two miles up. Your 5mW laser does not have the collimation, nor the power after atmospheric absorbtion to do much after around 100 ft.
However, I must admit, lasers in the 50W range are available, would do grevious eye damage at distance, and could be used to down an airplane by blinding the pilots.
Re:Lights and pilots (Score:3, Informative)
I have a book about him that I am sure has some made-up stuff in it, but a lot of factual events as well. Most of the tricks you read about in WWII was due to him.
The most amazing thing about this guy is he managed to walk into the war department and convince them to let him go to the front and construct illusions. Army folks are not prone to letting civillians wander in and start telling them what to do with their troops and supplies!
Re:Lights and pilots (Score:4, Informative)
We can only imagine how disorientating it would be for the pilots at that time to look out and just see alternating dark and white bands travelling at different speeds on each side of the plane. It would be a fairly simple to simulate this using an animation package.
Re:HOAX! The story is impossible (Score:3, Informative)
While I agree that a ground-based attack seems highly unlikely, and that the Washington Times is looking for any angle on terrorism, the angle from the ground to a cabin during decent is not that unlikely.
Salt Lake City is surrounded by the Washatch Mt Range. They are approximately 4K-5K feet above the basin floor surrounding the city and the approach to SLC takes flights to elevations where it would be possible to
Re:Can someone please explain basic physics to me? (Score:3, Informative)
What I'm getting at here is that it doesn't matter how the windows in the cockpit are angled. If the pilot has line-of-sight with a point on the ground, it follows that a person standing at that point on the ground has line-of-sight back to the pilot, and therefore could have shined this laser into his eye.
A competent reporter would have double-checked this story against the Airport/Facility Directory, which contains warnings of areas
Re:US Army using laser against Helicopter (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's a quote from recent article [washingtontimes.com] that mentions the incident:
"In one case, Naval Lt. Cmdr. Jack Daly and Canadian helicopter pilot Capt. Pat Barnes suffered eye injuries hours after an aerial surveillance mission to photograph a Russian merchant ship that had been shadowing the ballistic-missile submarine USS Ohio in Washington state's Strait of Juan de Fuca."
You don't have any anti-American bias do you?