AMD: No Grease For You! 660
bahamat writes "In a surprising turn of events, this article over at Xtreme Tek explains that the official stance from AMD is that you will void your warranty if you use any thermal grease or if you're not using the heatsink provided with your CPU. Sucks to be you if you buy a defective AMD CPU and put a Zalman on it for the first boot." AMD, the article says, doesn't want you to use anything "other than Shin Estu G 749."
Two words... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Two words... (Score:5, Interesting)
Shhhhhh... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Two words... (Score:5, Interesting)
And when they say you cleaned off your artic silver you tell them you used the alcohol to clean of the approved grease so the chip was nice and clean for them.
Re:Two words... (Score:3, Funny)
Of course then they'll nail you for not using any thermal compound at all...
Re:Two words... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Two words... (Score:5, Informative)
No, try again. Ever tried getting Arctic Silver (or el-cheapo white thermal paste) off a CPU with isopropanol and a Q-Tip? You won't get all of it off.
So what is the secret sauce you need to soak that Q-Tip in, you ask? Acetone. Gone without a trace every time!
WD40 or MagicOFF at advance auto works 4 me :) (Score:5, Informative)
And voila, looked like new, took a new coat of thermal paste/grease and... ran like new, all my servers still running after 2.0 years
That's my 2 cents.
JOKE: And to boot I bet it will never squeak either. Plus WD40 cuts through roughly any household thermal grease, including the vaunted Arctic Silver II stuff. The silicone paste comes off with water if anyone's worried. A moist towelette type thing will work just fine including the Staples/Radioshack anti static wipes. Hope that helps.
-Daedalus
PS - Arctic Silver 2 is good stuff, but not really much more effective than say... radioshack 1.99 tubes of thermal goo... the only rule is that you should use SOME form of evening compound to fill in gaps and uneven surface finish between cpu and heatsink... any paste will usually do, even thermal pads are better than nothing, unless that ONE degree difference from Arctic Silver II REALLY means much to you... in general all the silver compounds do is react to temperature changes more quickly... but unless you're running a superspiking cpu, you won't have an issue, and I have never had a cpu that spiked so fast and so hard that the thermal paste made a difference. Oh and to add, I've never had a CPU fail. It is all about cooling and how often you turn them on and off. Much like diesel motors...
Re:WD40 or MagicOFF at advance auto works 4 me :) (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WD40 or MagicOFF at advance auto works 4 me :) (Score:3, Insightful)
Acetone's a bit extreme... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Acetone's a bit extreme... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Acetone's a bit extreme... (Score:3, Funny)
I'm not a ChemE, but a good friend is. Lighterfluid gets off various glues too.
Re:Two words... (Score:3, Informative)
One easy way to obtain acetone is from nail polish removers.
Nail polish remover? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Two words... Funny story related to this (Score:5, Informative)
If the CPU was so covered in grease, it's no wonder it ran hot. Thermal grease is meant to be used very sparingly. You want a very thin layer, just enough to fill the microscopic crevices on the CPU and heatsink mating surfaces (if the surface of the heatsink has larger-than-microscopic grooves, it's time to get out the sand paper and lap the base to a shiny finish). As good of a thermal conductor as thermal grease may be, it's terrible in comparison to a direct metal-on-metal connection. If you see a lot of grease squeeze out when you apply the heatsink, you've got too much. What you want to do is apply a thin bead of grease to one end of the CPU die, and spread it thinly across using a credit card or other device (driver's license, heavy piece of paper, etc).
If your thermal grease is applied correctly, it will come off of the CPU with little problem. A cotton swab and a dab of rubbing alcohol should be more than enough. If you have to scrub, you had too much grease to begin with.
Depends on your grease... (Score:4, Informative)
The cheap stuff (including the stuff AMD's reccomending) contains oils that tend to dry out in a year or two, leaving this gummy mess that won't come off with isopropyl. (This is the main reason for my using Arctic Silver- it doesn't dry out like Shin Etsu, etc.) For that, you've got to use something like acetone, WD-40, Goof-Off, or Goo-Gone- even if you've applied it correctly.
Re:Depends on your grease... (Score:5, Informative)
Isopropanol doesn't cut through grease or goo really because it is not a petroleum product. Alcohols are products of fermentation of organic material. For some reason it has become the defacto cleaner in the computer world but is really not that effective on things other than inkjet printers, and disk drives. (Sometimes keyboards). Naphtha does wonders and completely evaporates unlike WD-40 which leaves its own residue.
Actually... (Score:3, Informative)
It all has to do with the kind of substances you are trying to mix, or put into solution (polar, ionic, covalently-bonded, etc), and your solvent of choice... oil and water do not mix because water is unable to adequately penetrate and dissolve the long, largely non-polar hydrocarbon chains that make up most oils (the oil is more attracted to itself than
Cleaning your credit card (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Don't do this! (Score:3, Insightful)
Spreading the grease is a bad idea. It puts ridges and valleys in the grease. When the parts are mated, the trapped air pockets create voids. Not a good idea. Always put a small dab in the center of the die and set the heatsink on it. Apply pressure and lock into place. The blob flattens out forcing all air out ahead of the grease. This prevents hotspots that lead to die failure. Don't remove the heatsink to inspect it. If you ever remove the heatsink, co
Re:Don't do this! (Score:3, Informative)
No one else... (Score:3, Funny)
Anyways, we decided to return the cpu, covered in grease, back to the local fry's
So you got a greasy chip in your fries?
Re:HFIP (Score:4, Funny)
Why is this a bad thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why is this a bad thing (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why is this a bad thing (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why is this a bad thing (Score:4, Informative)
Everybody else is piling on, so here is my contrib (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why is this a bad thing (Score:3, Interesting)
I wanted them to make sure their fan worked.
Re:What happens when..... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, duh, you buy a new CPU
Re:Why is this a bad thing (Score:3, Interesting)
I know that when I put a Thermalright AX-7 with an 80mm 4000RPM Sunon fan and Arctic Silver heat trans
Seems reasonable (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Seems reasonable (Score:3, Funny)
The problem is, their past CPUs have been known to be about 4 degrees hotter than the Sun. Maybe I want something better than what they want me to have.
Re:Seems reasonable (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Seems reasonable (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Seems reasonable (Score:3, Insightful)
let me explain the problem (Score:5, Informative)
Let me explain the problem with a simple example. And this has nothing to do with those who want to overclock their CPU or otherwise soup up their system.
The fan on the "stock heatsink" they talk about is less than quiet, but more importantly is poor enough that in many cases it will not even last the life of the warranty on the CPU. And the phase change material is "one use", you can't remove the heat sink and reapply it again with the same strip of heat sink material and have it function properly. When my heat sink fan died some months after I started using it (as detected by the BIOS seeing it slowing down considerably and a reelated increase in CPU temperature), I went to the local CompUSA and got a replacement copper fan. The "stock heatsink" just isn't always available. The replacement heatsink does a far better job, but I had to use a non-conductive thermal grease to install it. By this proclimation, I would have voided my warranty in two ways, using thermal grease and a better but non-standard heat sink.
I much prefer AMD over Intel, but if AMD is going to do this they need to consider some real world situations. As far as I know they don't warranty the heatsink fan, and even if they were to start it would not be reasonable for them to expect a user to not use their computer for the time it takes to ship back a bad fan and get a replacement. If they were supplying a fan and heatsink that would never need replacement, they might be on a more moral high ground, but having a stock fan that dies easily and then claiming you void the warranty if you correctly replace the heat sink isn't user friendly. And, of course, there are some people wo have a problem with the noise the stock fan makes, and while the argument is not as strong as the one I just made, I think they should be able to replace the stock haetsink and fan with a quieter one if they want, as long as they follow good technical procedures. I certainly don't have a problem with AMD stating they will not be responsiable for problems caused by conductive thermal grease, but this policy does seem to go too far, particularly given the fan they supply on that heatsink.
Re:let me explain the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Ummmm...lets think about this for a minute. The fan fails while under warranty. The whole point of a warranty is to cover failures within the warranty period. You don't want to make a warranty claim and would rather resolve the problem yourself without involving the manufacturer. I don't see the problem here, as it sounds to me like you have no interest in invoking the warranty.
Re:let me explain the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
It would depend on how AMD is going to resolve the warenty on the fan. Do they require shipping it back? How long does it take to replace the defunct unit? It may very well end up being quicker and cheaper to get a superior part on one's own.
Now - a replacement CPU. That's a far more expensive part. Price will likely outweight many people's time requirements.
Re:let me explain the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
In order to get my CPU out so I could exchange the board I had to remove the heatsink. In order to put the CPU / heatsink in my new board I had to use thermal grease as you are not supposed to use the pads twice.
It looks like I know have no CPU warranty. Nice.
This is news? (Score:5, Insightful)
thank God I live in California (Score:5, Informative)
Re:thank God I live in California (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:thank God I live in California (Score:3, Informative)
Before the energy crisis California had a large surplus ($14 billion [sacbee.com]). After, California had a very large deficit. Any questions?
Not that 9/11 helped any either, of course.
On a related note, how in the world could a law about product warranties affect California's financial situation?
State law and product warranties (Score:5, Interesting)
What you want to do is go to a law library and look up Vandermark v. Ford Motor Co. 61 Cal.2d 256 (1963).
Vandermark bought a new Ford in Los Angeles. Six weeks later, with 1500 miles on the odometer, the brakes failed, causing the car to wreck, seriously injuring the driver and passenger.
The Ford Dealership acknowledged that the crash was caused by defective brakes, but pointed to the warranty that read, "Dealer's obligation under this warranty is limited to replacement ... of such parts ... acknowledged by Dealer to be defective." In other words, neither the dealer nor Ford would assume responsibility for the damage to the car or the injuries to its occupants caused by the defective brakes.
One could argue that if Vandermark wanted a car with a warranty that would cover defective manufacture more comprehensibvely, he should have bought a car from a dealer that offered a better warranty, but no dealers offered warranties with significantly greater coverage. In 1964, the court ruled that the Ford dealership was strictly liable for product defects irrespective of what the warranty might say because
. This followed the train of thought set in motion by Benjamin Cardozo, who wrote in 1916 in MacPherson v. Buick Motor Co. [lawrence.edu] 138 NYS 224 (1912):You may argue that it is a long way from automobiles whose manufacturing defects put consumers and bystanders in danger of life and limb to a defective cooling fan on a CPU, and you would be right. But if you complain in general that the state has no business interfering with product warranties, a century of case law disagrees with you.
In closing, I will point to one of the most egregious cases in this regard. In 1937, the Massengill Company put on the market an antibiotic elixer for children composed of the drug sulfanilamide dissolved in diethylene glycol and flavoured with raspberry extract. Massengill never tested the product for safety. Diethylene glycol being a very nasty poison, 107, mostly children, died shortly thereafter from liver failure caused by this medicine. Massengill could not be sued under the laws at the time because, as the President of the company said,
The nation's response to this was to pass the 1938 Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which established the FDA and granted it sweeping powers to regulate the market to ensure that all food, drugs, and cosmetics were safe. Many conservative jurists, such as Richard Posner (one of Ronald Reagan's first appointments to the federal bench) promoted this expansion of tort law, noting that there is an imperfect market for information and that when information asymmetries are present, a free market does not optimally allocate resources (this observation won a Nobel prize in economics for Ackerlof, Stiglitz, and Spence). The thinking of the economics-and-law crowd was that expansion of strict liability would produce a corrective force for disclosure of information that would enhance the efficiency of markets.Re:State law and product warranties (Score:3, Interesting)
I hardly think you can say that the software industry is 50 years old. That covers a period where software was typically included along with hardware, as well as a long period where consumers couldn't buy anything remotely resembling software, mainly because they had no access to machines which could run it. The law described by Phrone
Software and liability law (Score:4, Informative)
There have been cases where software bugs in medical equipment [vt.edu] killed people. In those cases, there would be strong precedent for product liability lawsuits.
Suppliers to the military are harder to sue, which is probably good news to the folks whose bugs killed soldiers when their mortar targeting software made incorrect assumptions about target altitude [ncl.ac.uk] or when a Patriot missile targeting system's clock overflowed after 8 hours [fas.org].
For further reading on software liability issues, see this Business Week article [businessweek.com], which was discussed on /. [slashdot.org] and badsoftware.com [badsoftware.com], which surveys software liability issues from a consumer's perspective.
Re:State law and product warranties (Score:4, Insightful)
No. This thread is about warranties on unmodified chips. According to the Extreme Tek article, "In fact, according to AMD there is no warranty at all on OEM chips," whether or not you mess with the original fan. The post I replied to did not address the third-party heat-sink question, but the OEM question. It objected to the statement that in California, "State Law mandates a 1 year parts and manufacturing warranty irregardless of OEM status or not."
So this thread has nothing to do with putting on third-party heat sinks and is about whether AMD has to provide warranties on unmodified OEM chips.
That...intresting... (Score:5, Interesting)
Basicly what it sounds like is, people are cooking their CPU's from either/or...and AMD is tired of floating the loss because of idiots.
Re:That...intresting... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:That...intresting... (Score:2)
How loud are the official fans? (Score:4, Interesting)
How loud are the official fans?
Re:How loud are the official fans? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How loud are the official fans? (Score:5, Informative)
Has been for heatsinks (Score:4, Insightful)
Chip go boom (Score:3, Funny)
Well jeez, I can't help it if the chip produces it on its own...
How is this reasonable? (Score:2, Insightful)
Is it good business? Maybe. See below:
Is is going to make customers like you? Hell NO!
Re:How is this reasonable? (Score:2)
As other people have pointed out, this is AMD's way of covering their asses from all the [H]ardOCP morons that will slap the HSF of the week on their new chip then complain when it breaks.
Just like printer ink refills. (Score:2, Interesting)
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:Just like printer ink refills. (Score:2)
I doubt it.
If you buy a car, then try to run it with a non-standard radiator, do you think the manufacturer is going to honour *that* warranty if your engine overheats?
AMD has no way to test every 3rd-party heatsink out there to make sure it cools CPUs well enough. They include one that works just fine, and IMO that is the extent of their liability.
If *anyone* should be held accountable if your CPU overheats with a 3rd-party coo
You are correct. (Score:3, Insightful)
Any warrantee beyond the implied one usually required by law (fitness for a particular purpose, etc) is OPTIONAL, and they don't have to offer one at all; and if they DO, it can be under whatever terms they like.
So... if you take it home and it's busted out of the box, yeah, they have to do something about it.. because that's the law.
IF it breaks in six months, but had a 12 month guarantee on it saying you had to use the original cooler.. and you used another on
CYA (Score:2)
PFY gets his hands on a new AMD processor and decides he wants to clock it 2x past where it was ever supposed to run and it dies....
they're supposed to replace that?
nah, they cover their butts by saying that you should only use one heatsink and one thermal paste.
anyone with half a brain could clean off their thermal compound anyway, so who's to know?
if you're to stupid to clean off your proc. after your overclock it, well then you should probably be using the
Relevant info (Score:5, Informative)
AMD Athlon XP(TM) Processor Thermal Solutions [amd.com]
When selecting a thermal solution for your system, please refer to the following listing of heatsinks evaluated and recommended by AMD for use with AMD Athlon XP(TM) processors. Note, the following heatsinks are recommended for maintaining the specified Maximum die temperature requirement. In addition, this selection is not intended to be a comprehensive listing of all heatsinks that support AMD processors.
From the article:
"using a heatsink other than the stock heatsink on a retail chip also voids the warranty."
So if you pay the $10-15 extra for the retail instead of OEM, they expect you to use the hs/fan that comes with it.
Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Here:
http://www.sun.com/processors/ [sun.com]
or
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/ [ibm.com]
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
what bullshit (Score:2)
just the heatsink and the crappy thermal pad on the heat sink with no grease, and they overheat easily.
On the 100+ machines (all amd) i've built for clients (including a pile of rack mounted servers), i've always removed the worthless thermal pad, and used artic silver III, and i've NEVER had a overheating problem.
This is one recommendation from the manufacter i'd encourage everyone to ignore. Instead, read the overclocker sites for how to properly cool
Shuttle owners and other custom owners screwed? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why is it the consumers fault AMD never integrated thermal protection or a heat spreader into their processors to protect them? Personally, I'm glad I have a P4 in my gaming box that won't fry its self if a fan dies.
I'm sorry AMD, but I'm dumping you for Intel. (Score:2)
Someone should force AMD execs to sleep in a room with a stock fan/heatsink and see how they like it. I get terrible nightmares if I actually manage to fall asleep from the loud roar.
Thermal pumpout? (Score:2)
Re:Thermal pumpout? (Score:4, Informative)
After doing a little research, it refers to the migration or "pump out" of the grease due to the pressure of the heatsink on the chip and the thermal cycles of turning your cpu off/on. Because the cpu and heatsink are usually different materials they will expand/contract at different rates, and thus will "push out" the grease.
Then this might create a space between the cpu and heatsink with the "pumped out" grease acting as a standoff, essentially leaving your cpu without meaningful contact with a heatsink. With AMD cpus that normally run very hot, this is deadly and your cpu will melt.
Thermal Insulating Materials, or TIMs have a much higher viscosity than grease, so that won't happen with them. Though arguably they don't do as well as grease (in the short term) in the thermal transfer of heat.
On the surface this seems like a conspiracy by those who make TIMs, but one user [slcentral.com] observed "pump out" for himself - using Artic Silver too.
If the AMD cpus had a heat spreader on them like many intel cpus do, "pump out" may not be so bad. Though it probably would happen to some degree, it probably would not be fatal.
Given the vast quantity of cpus that AMD (and intel for that matter) crank out, they probably see a steady stream of cpus burned out with grease on them been returned to them. So naturally they want to cut there losses and want people to stick with TIMs to prevent burn out.
It also could be argued that the socket A design is inherently flawed. Thermal grease as commonly known was not designed to operate under the high pressures that heatsink clamps put on cpus these days.
I have always dissed TIMs, but now I'll give it a second thought.
Arctic Silver's Flawed Analogy (Score:5, Insightful)
Those who bothered to read the article would have found this little gem of a quote from Arctic Silver at the end:
Yeah, and anyone who takes their under-warranty low power, fuel efficient car and replaces the radiator with an unapproved aftermarket part, and replaces the coolant with something that doesn't meet manufacturer requirements, probably won't get warranty service, either!
Re:Arctic Silver's Flawed Analogy (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, your example is true. Japanese automakers will not warranty engines that have had silicate-based antifreeze put in them. German cars typically don't allow phosphate-based coolant.
Why? Because silicates cause increased wear on moving parts, like water pumps. Water pumps are very often driven by the timing belt. When the water pump seizes, it usually shreds the belt in a matter of seconds, and if the engine is an interference type(ie, the path of pistons and valves overlap, but never hit because of the timing), then you'll bend/snap valves, or worse.
Phosphates don't react well to water with mineral content(US coolant makers claim it's only a european-water problem, that the US doesn't have "high mineral content" in its water, which is bullshit), aren't friendly with aluminum engine components/radiators, and like silicates, they work by coating all the metal with the stuff(on the theory that, if a metal that can rust is covered by phosphates or silicates, it won't rust.)
I use the proper coolant that was recommended by my car's manufacturer- it's german-made, and doesn't contain either phosphates or silicates. I've actually seen better operation(less noise from the water pump, for one) since I switched.
The reality is that if you substitute coolants, and your engine overheats because of it- you're shit out of luck. That said, the manufacturer has to prove(to a certain extent) that your coolant switch caused the problem(which could be as simple as "see this pump? It seized because you used crap coolant.") Auto manufacturers can't just declare the whole vehicle's warranty invalid because, say, you install a non-OEM air filter.
Maybe it's just me, but computer manufacturers have clung to the "open the case, void the warranty" bullshit. Some invalidate the warranty because you installed, say, a network or faxmodem card. That's bull- just like auto companies, they should be forced to prove the non-OEM component caused the failure.
This is an example of misunderstanding (Score:3, Informative)
Perpective. (Score:5, Funny)
Now, if I were to go in the other room and tell my folks that people were ranting and raving on a website about no being allowed to use the heat sink grease of their choice on a computer processor..... Well, regular down to earth real people just wouldn't understand.
Re:Perpective. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's funny, because myself, being quite the geek, don't understand when my mother talks about the proper methods of filing a T4 or the odd things people do when it comes time for quarterly reports or when people rant and rave about missing lunch hour at month's end. When my brother in law talks about using six-penny nails when a brad nailer is more appropriate, or running the wrong kind of hydraulic fluid in a bailer, or ...
To them, it's a big deal. To their colleagues, it's topical and interesting; often even a topic of great heated discourse over a ${BEVERAGE}. Everybody's career / hobby has its own set of idiosyncrasies (and esoteric dialog). In that regard, we're not unique or unusual. Really.
OT: Cooler reviews (Score:3, Informative)
Just a good one to bookmark
So what? (Score:4, Interesting)
Grease? Feh. TIM pads, baby! (Score:5, Interesting)
Since it doesn't make a difference what the hell you use to stick your heatsink onto your CPU--hell, toothpaste works just as well as AS-3 [dansdata.com]--I'll stick with the easy stuff.
AMD (Score:5, Insightful)
AMD only warranties RETAIL CPUs, OEM CPUs are usually warrantied by the retailer, usually if you buy a HS/Fan from them. So, if you buy OEM CPUs this doesn't apply to you. If you intend on using arctic silver / Zalman, then buy a OEM CPU (tcwo.com warrants them for a year with a HS/Fan purchase). If you want your warranty backed by AMD, buy a Retail procassor and use the included HS/Fan.
Optimized Code (Score:5, Interesting)
I have two AMD Athlon MP 2000+'s in on a Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard, and a gig of ram, in a full-tower case with four intake fans -- one on the bottom front, one on the side middle over the cards, and two in the middle back under the power supply. The exhaust fan is the PS, of course.
When running Windows 2000 on this machine, the operating temp as reported by the BIOS runs between 50c and 60c.
When I run Gentoo Linux [gentoo.org], set up from a stage1 install and compiled specifically for the Athlon MP, the machine crashes as the temperature rises to 75c.
I'm using the retail processors that came with the fan. It's plain that they're installed correctly, but the thermal pad on the bottom (even with the adhesive backing removed properly) isn't capable of dissapating the heat.
Does this mean I'm prohibited by warranty terms from running optimized code? AMD really needs to answer this question. If they want to they could easily come up with a recommended list of approved grease, or contract with someone to sell "official grease" for situations like mine.
Re:Optimized Code (Score:5, Insightful)
First problem! You need at least as many exhaust fans as you have intakes, maybe one more if you are counting the PS fan as an exhaust. Turn the two in the back of your case around, and I bet the CPU temperatures will drop 10 or 15 degrees.
When running Windows 2000 on this machine, the operating temp as reported by the BIOS runs between 50c and 60c.
When I run Gentoo Linux [gentoo.org], set up from a stage1 install and compiled specifically for the Athlon MP, the machine crashes as the temperature rises to 75c.
Are you playing UT2k3 in Windows, or using Office? Compiling code (something gentoo does *a lot* of!) taxes the CPUs and generates quite a bit of heat, writing a letter in Word doesn't. That might explain the difference in Windows and Linux operating temps. Also, make sure you have "make CPU idle calls when idle" option set in your kernel config, and check this thread [gentoo.org] in the gentoo forums about enabling halt-cooling in the chipset. It doesn't specifically mention your board, but it has links to sites that might.
Same with my P4 (Score:4, Informative)
Heatsink? (Score:5, Funny)
NO grease for you; you MUST use grease!! (Score:5, Interesting)
1) using grease means you are DIY with 3rd party stuff, which means it's easier for you (or the 3rd party suff you have) to screw up and
2) using grease *improves* thermal contact, making it easier to overclock, which of course voids your warranty anyway.
Now compare the XP's "no grease" tag like to this from the AMD Athlon(TM) 64 Processor Thermal Design Guide [amd.com] (from page 22, secion 2.6.6):
For those that don't know, the gum-paste stuff that comes on all XP heatsinks is "phase-change material." Seems the 64 is the *exact* opposite of the XP.
It's all about overclocking. (Score:4, Interesting)
Think about it. If it's a poor heat sink and fan that AMD requires you to use, then overclocking is out of the question because there's no way the HSF could regulate the temperature.
See, overclocking voids the warantee, but there's no way for AMD to tell if you were overclocking. This way they do know (or it's easier for them to tell) - assuming you used a different HSF while overclocking. I wonder what they'll do when hot cpus start failing in poorly ventilated cases, or in hot climates.
Personally I don't like it, because a crappy HSF... just sucks. I don't overclock, but I still want a half decent HSF. You could probably get away with using a different fan though. Watch, soon you'll see "heat sink extensions" that you lock on to AMD's required sink, and it extends the surface area of that heatsink.
Though given some of the crazy cooling solutions that have been posted on
My story with AMD heatsinks (Score:4, Interesting)
Why exactly would I be voiding my warrenty by switching to something better?
For Sale: AMD heatsinks (Score:3, Funny)
Penny smart, pound stupid. (Score:3, Insightful)
For customer relations' sake, it seems that their move was imprudent. Had they just decided to quietly replace a few CPUs and not make a fuss, they would have looked better as a "corporate citizen."
They may be saving a few dollars down the road but the bad will that their move generated may have repercussions later. Slashdotters, are you mad enough to actually switch to another vendor?
Re:I really am quite astonished (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're an idiot and break your processor while overclocking on it, why should AMD pay?
Why should us other AMD customers pay for that matter?
I'm astonished that there's any kind of warranty for broken/melted cores at all.Re:I really am quite astonished (Score:2)
I've got an Athlon 1GHz. I'm still using the stock HSF and it hovers around 65 degrees celcius in the winter. During a summer day my core can hit nearly 80 degrees.
Now I know the core is rated to go to 105 degrees but if my core melted while running at 80 degrees I'd expect it to be replaced for an Athlon that does run properly at up to 105 degrees.
Re:I really am quite astonished (Score:3, Insightful)
What if you're just trying to be responsible, and applied thermal compound to your cpu as per standard industry practice? Should you be responsible for a faulty CPU when you took every reasonable effort to protect it from overheating?
Re:I really am quite astonished (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I really am quite astonished (Score:4, Funny)
(ps: the above was an attempt at humor)
Re:is it only applicable to box cpus? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why not a gaming chip \board ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Half the fun is getting it to do something it wasn't supposed to do, but I suppose that even that little bit of experimentation can be commercialized too: AMD could put little boxes on the shelf targeting the armchair overclocker, just put a normal 2Ghz chip in a box, mark it "1.4Ghz Overclocker Chip", with a little booklet of instructions saying how you can 'overclock' it to 2Ghz.
Re:Dictators (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dictators (Score:4, Insightful)
Lets say I amble over to the local Toyota deal and buy myself a shiny new Tacoma pickup. I want to supercharge it. Toyota states that the only supercharger which may be used without voiding the warrenty is the TRD approved unit. I put on an ACME one I got off eBay. Should Toyota honor thier warrenty when the engine goes !!BOOM!!.
Re:Dictators (Score:4, Interesting)
Consumer protection laws allow the stipulation of specifications, not brands, models or arbitary approval processes.
As always it depends on your local laws. The manufacturer must put up, or leave.