PS3 Missed Ship Targets, Loses Exclusives 173
Sony's having a rough week. After shootings on launch day and a harsh review from the New York Times, Bloomberg is now calling Sony out as having completely missed its shipping targets. The analyst company says there may have been as few as 50% of aimed-for units available, and that the company may only get about 200,000 units to stores by the end of the year (something Sony flatly denies). PS3 fans now also have to deal with the fact that Koei is cross-platforming two previously exclusive titles. Fatal Inertia and Bladestorm are now in development for the 360 as well, marking the latest in a string of titles that have slipped away from Sony. There is some consolation for the company to take away from this week, though. They did better than Microsoft last week in Japan, with around 81,000 PS3s, 19,000 PSPs, and 16,000 PS2s sold to a mere 4,000 Xbox 360s and ... 4 Xboxes.
Nice BS numbers from Japan. (Score:1, Insightful)
In america the amount of consoles Microsoft sell weekly isn't that many (probably 5 digits on a good week, but not much more)
Of course it wouldn't be 1up article if it was biased in some random direction.
Then again Microsoft's numbers are picking up in preperation for Blue Dragon, only a couple monthes ago they were barely breaking 1K units. Ho
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Wait, what about the PS2 number which is a 4:1 ratio with the Xbox/Xbox360's number? The PS2 has been out for how long, 5 years, why is it outselling the xbox360's number with a huge ratio still?
Re: (Score:2)
While the data is completely valid, the conclusions someone might draw from them are not, and when 1up is saying the ps3 is doing better, it's not even technically va
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's not really a fair comparison to make. The newer, slim PS2 costs around $130, where as the xbox 360 is $400 or more. Also, a lot of the older PS
Re: (Score:2)
Useful numbers from Japan (Score:2, Informative)
For 2006 through the end of October, 84,949 360s sold in Japan. 81,639 PS3s sold at launch.
From what I can find, there were 100K 360s sold in Japan in 2005.
So it looks like somewhere around 190K 360s vs 82K PS3s in Japan currently with Microsoft's 1 year head start.
Value Japanese sales in the greater scheme of things as you please.
360 numbers in Japan are lower b/c of Blue Dragon (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I'd say it's quite the opposite. I would fully expect 360 sales numbers in Japan to be lower than usual because of Blue Dragon. It makes sense and here's why.
We know that there's surprisingly a lot of interest [1up.com] in the Blue Dragon 360 bundle, set to release in December. It also recently took over the #3 spot on Famitsu's list of most anticipated titles [joystiq.com]. So, if you know there's a bundle coming out in December, why on earth would you buy a 360 now? It's akin to buying a system when you know a price drop is going to happen in a few weeks.
The numbers will be most interesting a week after the game and bundle launches. (The week it actually ships will see an artificial bump of 360 sales, similar to the PS3 one. I fully expect, "wowzers, 360>PS3 lolololezr" articles then as well) Then we can start tracking trends to see if MS will actually have a chance in Japan, or if it's going to be more of the same.
Re: (Score:2)
Although, I suppose that if Blue Dragon is the only reason why you want a 360, it would make sense to just wait until it launches and pick the system up with the game (even if you can't get the bundle), to save multiple trips to the store. There'd be no worry about limited quantit
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Also, try not to explain away the numbers by using the idea that these people would try to save trips. The Japanese are more mobile than Americans. Going to the game store isn't going
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't surprise me that 100k of pre-orders have been filled for a Japanese RPG. What's shocking is that it's for one on the Xbox 360, where sales have been anemic. It seems to poin
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
This is an excellent question, and I can only assume the answer is one of two things:
1. For some reason, gaming site users have an insatiable appetite for fuel to the "console war" fire, perhaps with little regard for the accuracy of said fuel.
2. See #1.
Imagine what the world might accomplish if the energy we put into worrying about which
Re:Nice BS numbers from Japan. (Score:5, Funny)
And the PS3 controllers have a way better button layout than an Apple mouse. So much for cupertino's vaunted user friendliness.
Nothing Stops the DS.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Granted it bucks the trend, but the DS Lite has been selling over 100,000 units per week in Japan since Nintendo has been able to make over 100,000 systems per week for Japan.
4 xboxs? yeah right.... (Score:2)
Maybe sony counts all machines out of factory for that week.
Again, surely there are more than 4 people in a land of 180 million that would buy an xbox-1, its not like
they ALL are rich, there are smaller cities, and poor people everywhere.
What are xbox sales in korea like? I thought they hate the Js and would never touch a Sony console.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Nice BS numbers from Japan. (Score:5, Informative)
You mean like the iPod [businessweek.com]?
Please, this constant repetition that the Japanese are xenophobic when it comes to electronics is terrifically boring, and worse, counter-productive. It's as bad as the auto makers who blame xenophobia for why they aren't able to sell the Chrysler Neon in Japan.
No? (Score:3, Insightful)
No. It equates to Japanes people not liking stuff because the seller was too fucking stupid to figure out what they actually wanted. The 360 simply has very little games that appeal to Japanes people. Hence, no sales.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sony Style Store just had some (Score:5, Informative)
I was just in the Sony Style store at 550 Madison Avenue (Sony's US headquarters) and they were selling PS3s. There was a line of about 15 people (ok, men) at the checkout, which is highly unusual in my experience (I shop there regularly) and the staff behind the desk had some PS3s sitting on the floor ready to be handed over. The boxes go out in a distinctive black bag with PS3 graphics on it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:1, Redundant)
Does it also say "Steal Me!" in bright graphics, too?
Re:Sony Style Store just had some (Score:5, Funny)
It could be worse... they could buy it from Target!
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Bet They're feeling Blue (Score:5, Insightful)
If I'm correct the original PS3 was set to be built without the BluRay.
I'm willing to bet that is the root their delays.
At some point some marketing exec sat down at a global strategy meeting and predicted that to make BluRay work they would need to inject using their most popular gadget.
Won't it suck for that exec if it turns out BluRay killed the PlayStation...or at least crippled it regardless of majority share of the market.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you mean "Wouldn't it be Apropriate if it turns out that Blu-Ray Killed the PlayStation?"
and Yes it would.
Re: (Score:2)
Though, they probably would have more stock, which would have helped their cause.
Cheers,
Fozzy
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Loosing exclusive titles hurts (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Loosing exclusive titles hurts (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem for Sony is that there seems to be a perception that they need their exclusives due to the Microsoft head start and the high price of their hardware. Because they didn't lock up franchises like GTA or the "hot" new property, Assassin's Creed (for example), Microsoft can make what is probably a cheaper deal to make them multiplatform and gamers won't have those extra incentives to buy the PS3 (don't get me wrong, there are other incentives - I'm only a "hater" in terms of price).
The bottom line is that PS2 ended up with many (many, many) exclusives over time thanks to their ridiculous market share advantage. For at least the next year, if not a couple years, they're not going to have that advantage (certainly not in the US, probably not in Europe, maybe not in Japan depending on the Wii's penetration), so PS3 exclusives will have to come either from the preference of a particular developer (MGS's boss seems to be enamored of Sony, for example) or specific deals (like cheaper licensing fees) between the developer and Sony. Otherwise, it makes more sense to at least go multiplatform based purely on the hardware numbers.
As a gamer, I hate exclusives because they unnecessarily (given the relatively low cost to port games as opposed to starting from scratch) limit my options. They are necessary, though, for companies trying to differentiate themselves from the competition and sell more hardware.
Re: (Score:2)
Whether or not the Wii has a huge penetration doesn't matter, since the Wii and the PS3 are such different consoles, and aim at different markets. There will be PS3 exclusives and there will be Wii exclusives, and I expect very few PS3 games ported to the Wii and vice-versa. I own a Wii, and I don't think I'd be
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Anyway, the two exclusives that Sony lost are both new franchises. If Sony loses Dynasty/Samurai Warriors (or FF13 and DQ9 on the Squenix side), then there will be reason for worry. (Yeah, I know the Warriors games have almost always come out on the XBox, but the PS2 versions generally come out earlier and with expansions.)
Rob
The Squeenix factor (Score:2)
If so, Sony better be worried and lock up those franchises tightly, and not give Squeenix any wiggle room. We already know they're working on the 360 (with the old Final Fantasy XI and Project Slypheed [square-enix.co.jp]), so it'
Re: (Score:2)
You make a good point here, about Mistwalker and Squeenix. If the PS3 does poorly, worldwide, and there's questions of whether there will be a PS4, Squeenix will have to go XBox720 (or Nintendo WiiHD, or whatever). If Mistwalker Studios is already well established on the Microsoft end, Squeenix is going to have some feirce competition for the first time in a while. The only thing is that, really, RPG manufacturers really aren't in competition with each other, so much. As long as they have staggered releases
Re:Losing exclusive titles hurts (Score:2)
If you've played the later games (SW and DW5 onwards), you can see why Koei started releasing them on the 360 rather than the XBox - when you play the PS2 version, having a lot of troops on screen really pushes it in a bad way. Enemies disappear but are still able to hit you, or the PS2 even crashes.
Bladestorm is/was one of the PS3 games that really interested me, ap
Re: (Score:2)
Putting the games on the PS3 should nullify that problem.
Bladestorm is/was one of the PS3 games that really interested me, apart from Devil May Cry 4. It's a new franchise, but it's the Hundred Years War version
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Then we turned around and surpris
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You forgot to add "for Sony".
If all the games are identical and available for the PS3 and the 360 then the 360 will win. It is a lot cheaper then the PS3 after all.
Sony must have games that people are willing to pay a $200 more for the console and possible for go the exclusives on the 360 for.
Then you have to problem of a delayed launch in E
Re: (Score:2)
Starcraft?! Isn't that game something like 10 years old? Unless you're talking about a Starcraft 2, I don't understand why it would have anything to do with the 360.
Re: (Score:2)
Xbox? (Score:4, Funny)
At this stage in the game, who is buying a NEW Xbox? You couldn't find a used one or hit up Ebay? I need to find one of these 4 people. I have a nice 486 with a Turbo button that they might find appealing.
Re: (Score:2)
Why?
They're cheap! Well, at least cheaper than the new generation of consoles. To me that's a lot. In addition, the games (most of which I've not played) I could pay 20$ or less for! That's a win-win for me, especially for a brand new console w/warranty.
I have a PS2 I've probably played 20 or 30 games total on. And now, I can find games for 20$ or less that I salivated over about 2 years ago (I just bought GT4 and am hooked on t
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Dude, I've seen brand new, unopened consoles from the 80s in Japan. We're talking Famicom and PC Engine (aka NES and TurboGrafx-16). There are several shops in Akihabara that sell both the systems and plenty of games, not all used.
In comparison, an Xbox isn't that surprising of a purchase. It's still no
Oh, good (Score:2, Funny)
Well (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a feeling that Sony will need to start giving incentives or at least making it a desirable environment for developers in order to create some games that will become a MUST for the console buyers (like Halo for Xbox, Gears of War/Halo 3 for Xbox360, Mario for N64 etc) if they want to really compete with the low priced Wii and the 360 which is flaunting it's powerful internet features now.
Re: (Score:2)
No. Sony has become an asshole and a bully; not having a global launch date is no excuse for that behavior.
Funny thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
In any case, I doubt game developers will cry over it. They gave Nintendo the finger a decade ago because Nintendo was trying to control them. Sony during the PS2 days did the same, so they're probably all -praying- for Sony to fail so they can jump ship for the next console maker who'll give them everything
Re: (Score:2)
Sony's Reaction (Score:2)
Translation: We love it when people are shooting each other for an overpriced piece of hype. It t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Suppose that this year GM produced a brand new supercharged luxury compact sedan which they sold for $50,000 that was based on the Cobalt; and suppose that GM only produced 25,000 of these cars that sold out (almost) instantly. A marketing drone in GM suddenly believes that there is a massive market for this car and decides that it is important to inc
Ha Ha (Score:2)
Day 2 and Sony is in 3rd place. I believe I called this one months ago.
Gears of Wars for PS3 (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
As the sibling post says, that's just Unreal 3. Sure, it has a big, beefy human character but that's just Epic's style. As far as GoW on anything but Xbox 360, keep in mind that Microsoft publi
Why? (Score:2, Interesting)
Nintendo seems to be the only one with the supply to meet the deman
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It was last by 2 days. That's negligible. Besides, it's already sold several times as much as the PS3 anyway (considering they both sold out, and several times many more Wiis were made...).
Christmas. Not that it's going to do them any good, though, because "getting it out in time for the holidays" on paper won't cause them to magically have enough consoles to even come close to meeting the seasonal dema
Re: (Score:2)
Stockholders don't like delays.
Sony, Nintendo AND Microsoft ALL released too soon (Score:2)
Seriously now people, if you enjoy GAMEPLAY the GC / Xb1 and the PS2 have a plethora of good games for them right now.
Some of the more recent games look really quite nice too.
All 3 companies should have "milked" their consoles closer towards a better end of life, Nintendo 18 months, Sony 12 and MS 24 (my opinion, based on their release date, graphical ability and quantity of games)
This way they could have focused on ensuring these new consoles are up to scratch in all depts - online, grap
Sony is starting to sound like Sega/Nintendo did (Score:2)
When asked whether Sony's resurgent strength as a console games publisher was pushing the company to shun exclusives, Tretton denied it. "We're the only company in this industry that's got development resources and talent that have established Number one hits on all three continents," he says, which is true, since the bulk of Microsoft's studios are in North America and Europe, while Nintendo's are concentrated in Japan. "We really feel like we're well positioned to cont
So in other words your verdit is... (Score:3)
Same troll, new generation.
Re:So in other words your verdict is... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, unless Sony can figure out where to find a few million spare consoles before Xmas.
Re:Other PS3 problems of note (Score:5, Funny)
I'd accuse you of karma whoring, but people normally log in for that.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, then there's the "numerous" hi-def scaling issues which is really just the same issue (once again, goint to be patched soon) happening to multiple titles.
This guy should be writing for some political or marketing company. He's got the "take a minor issue a
Re:Other PS3 problems of note (Score:5, Insightful)
Your selfless concern is touching.
Not a refutation, but a mitigating point, to be sure. Each new console has issues that will be corrected with firmware updates. This is a good thing.
Ok I'll bite:
About 98% of previous titles play just fine. Some have sync issues with FMV sequences, which do not affect gameplay (and yes, will be fixed). This is not 'poor compatibility'. Go check Sony's game database if you like, they have a tool for this.
Again, disingenuous. Some older model HDTVs don't do 720p, and there is an issue with that particular resolution on those particular sets. And fixable. Considering the very small installed base of total HDTVs, this strikes me as a fairly minor problem (although irritating to be sure). And that is the only problem, not 'numerous'.
I agree. Both the Wii and PS3 online capabilities are inferior to Microsoft's network.
While I agree that the high-end SKU bundle should have included these, you surely must agree that most people would end up throwing this cable away. Nintendo doesn't even think you need to buy one from a store. (Or at all, until December.)
For that game. Talk about intellectually dishonest, you act like its an exhaustive comparison.
Yeah, maybe. Had some slowdown on Gears of War, too. Tony Hawk, being a cross-platform franchise, perhaps had the least amount of time for a PS3 port. Gundam just plain sucks. But point taken.
Remind me again, why do we care what Nolan Bushnell thinks of the PS3 dev environment?
Remind me again, why do WE care about the dev environment? How is that warning consumers of the dangers of the PS3?
Scrapin' the bottom of the barrel, here. Newsflash: software doesn't tend to ship on time. I'm not excusing them but this is hardly anything new.
Tell me, what is it when you remove a title from your previous console's dev roster so you can push it as a launch title for the next console?
The fact is, you are looking at two console launches only a week out. And considering the shortages, the data is skewed anyhow. You cannot project this out in a linear fashion. For instance what do you make of the fact that the PS3 and the DS are in American kids Top 10 Xmas Gifts list [wonderlandblog.com]and the Wii is no where to be found?
What you are doing is called cherry-picking. You can do this to anything and make it look bad. Hey, what's with the Wii? No component cables for sale until December, and even
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There are numerous, deep flaws with the PS3 and with Sony's strategy over the last year. No amount of rationalization changes that.
Yes, I'm a Nintendo fan. Despite my poor experience with the PS1, I was also very excited about the PS2 -- until I saw that Sony was lying about it. This time around they're just being even more blatant.
--Jeremy
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The PS3 is the pop
Re: (Score:2)
Fair enough.
You say that like this is irrefutable; fact is, we just don't know yet. I don't believe I am rationalizing - currently I have no dog in this fight, so to speak.
Re:Other PS3 problems of note (Score:4, Interesting)
Because poor dev environments caused the downfall of several historic game consoles. See: Sega Saturn.
While there were other issues with the Saturn, such as dev libraries being difficult to get ahold of... development of Sega Saturn cross platform titles often meant spending several extra months of development on the Saturn compared to, say, the PS1. It was one of the primary reasons the Saturn failed (along with its high initial pricetag, and difficulty getting hands on dev kits in the first place, low number of game releases outside of japan.. all of which except the last sound eerily familiar when looked at in context of the PS3).
Ease of system development is very important in forecasting how well third party developers will attach to a system. That's why it's important for a consumer to take into account on initial release. After a year or two when it becomes obvious which system will have better developer support, it can be safely ignored. But what we're trying to do is forecast which will be the one that will have the most numbers sold.
On a sidenote, one of the reasons the PS2 caught on initially and sold a huge number of units was adding DVD. At least, in Japan. DVD technology hadn't caught on huge there yet, and that coupled with several exclusive RPGs (squeenix, etc) cemented its success in Japan. This to some extent also helped it sell well in the US. It's what they're trying to do again with the Blu-ray, but unfortunately the blu-ray technology doesn't have a firm foothold in one of their markets already. Blu-ray movies are few and far between, compared to a point when DVDs were being sold like hotcakes - at least, for US movies. This, along with the production woes, make them introducing a new format much more risky at this point in time.
And about your point about the 'top ten xmas gifts':
The kids polled are probably very young. While this is one of the targets of the Wii, I can definitely see how the PS3 came on the list, and the DS as well - without the Wii.
You have to look at where the youngin's are getting their information, and keep in fact that they're more impressionable by the media than your typical teenage/adult gamer. They hear 'blazingly fast' and 'not much faster than the gamecube' and they go apeshit. They list the DS because they've seen older kids at school with them, or schoolmates with them, or they've played their friends DS, etc. You have to keep in mind that younger kids see a bunch of people with something and say "Those are cool! Everyone has one! I want one too!" rather than making a truly informed decision based on market level projections, hardware issues/points, games, etc.
As a sidenote, I like how legos are up there on the list
Re: (Score:2)
Well, that and the fact that nobody gives a flip about HD movies anyway. With the video tape->DVD transition, the biggest draw for normal people (i.e., not audiophiles) was simply not having to rewind the stupid thing, not the better A/V quality. Blu-ray has no similar
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree, but only in terms of speed-of-adoption. I think it is a better analogy to use Surround Sound. That was never really a 'must have' feature for many people, but 'sure is nice' for a lot,
Re: (Score:2)
You make a fine case, but there seems to be a gigantic hole in your argument... shaped like a PS2. Everybody said exactly the same things about how hard it was to develop for, and we all know how that turned out.
So while I agree that this can be an issue, from the consumer's point of view I really don't see people wondering about Insomnia's toolchain while standing there considering a console. Frankly,
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
- Numerous high def upscaling issues including PS3 BluRay movies not appearing in high definition properly
Both of which are most likely fixable through firmware upgrades. Especially the compatibility which is supposed to be fixed in short order.
- Poor graphics on side to side game comparison tests
- Poor framerates and "tearing" reported on multiple game titles, including Tony Hawk and Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire
I say this a lot. Maybe I should
Re: Not all Launch titles suck... (Score:2)
As a general rule 'Most' suck. Fine, but Zelda rocks, [gamerankings.com] and there are other exceptions... [ign.com]
Zelda is a red herring. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not all launch titles suck. But I'll grant you that most suck so badly that they drag the one or two good ones down with them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Look, I agree that these aren't really worth complaining about compared to the similar problems we saw with the PS2, but I simply won't abide by this "Ship now, patch later" mentality. If Sony is going to wait until later to fix these problems, then they will also wait until later until they see my six hundred freakin' dollars. I'm not looking to make a "deposit" or
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, if you include handhelds they control less than 50% of the hardware market; when it comes to software Nintendo sells about 4 times as much software as Sony does.
This lack of shortages does not matter. If Sony pushes out PS3 next year this will be a thing of the past. Sure they may lose market share
Re: (Score:2)
Have you noticed that the biggest spikes occur during the second year after the console launches? I agree that Sony will lose a huge chunk of business by not having enough units for this Christmas, but that doesn't mean the difference couldn't be made up during Christmas 2007 or 2008. (I hope not, though
Re: (Score:2)
oh wait...
Re: (Score:2)
Worst analogy ever.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. I didn't have your points in mind though, though they play a role too. The main thing I think is that there is a lot of inertia when switching OSes because people have invested hours upon hours of learning them and the applications they use on top. Often their whole business processes are entangled with the OS and the apps. Retooling is not considered fun ("oh I get to learn a new OS") but a chore, and is costly.
All th
Re: (Score:2)
"You see it's like this: If Honda designed a car with seven engines..."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That would be Nintendo [nintendo.com]. Otherwise
Re: (Score:2)