TiVo from AdZapper to Advertiser's New Best Friend 190
Thomas Hawk writes "A lot of noise has been made lately regarding TiVo's transformation from an ad zapper to Madison Avenue's new darling. In their first podcast ever, TiVo explains how they hope to redefine advertising in the age of the DVR through a customer centered approach. I'm not sure you are going to see TiVo changing their slogan to "we'll leave a light on for you," anytime soon, but with DVR penetration hitting mainstream how will their new initiatives change your TV viewing experience?"
some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:5, Insightful)
I am one of the broadband-connected Tivo owners and counter to Tivo's Kent's thesis, I don't prefer to watch the long ads Tivo stocks. I long ago abandoned those as mostly uninteresting and targetless (i.e., of ten video ads, rarely would even one be close to interesting for me).
An interesting note in the article: TiVo owners tend to fast forward about 70% of the ads when viewing pre-recorded content. That's about right in my experience, but why?
I use the 30 second skip, and it helps get past the real annoyances in a show, which is usually the commercials. But I've found that there are some well done commercials and those are the 30% that I watch. If they're not insultingly stupid, and are cleverly written (not hard to do -- spring for the writers), I watch. Some I watch every time I see them (Caveman FedEx commercial anybody?).
I think Tivo and others may be missing something here, people watching TV do appreciate a "breather" every once in a while, and if the commercial breaks are filled with quality pseudo entertainment, people will watch it. And vendors will get market share.
If Tivo and others really wanted to get ahead of the curve I'd suggest targeted commercial breaks, i.e., instead of the broad spectrum network advertising during commercial breaks, overlay them with targeted and well-crafted shorts designed to catch the eye of that tivo's owner tastes. I think this is easily done, and would bet the 70% "skip" factor for commercial breaks would drop significantly. I don't mind targeted advertising, it can still be annoying but it's more likely to show me something I can use and would be interested in buying.
On the other hand, the notion of interactivity in the TV landscape so far has consistently been beat down as intrusive and annoying to TV viewers. I have seen all of the extra features Tivo has added (mostly third party) in the last couple of years, and they're mostly fluff, add little value, and some of the harder sell "features" are downright annoying. I'd be interested to see the usage metrics for these new "interactive" improvements.
I still think when people settle in to watch TV, they're there to watch, not participate.
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:3, Insightful)
This is exactly right. I was one of the first Tivo buyers too, and quickly found out that it is not like the ads go away, you just get extremely short synopses of them. What is more, while I'm sitting watching the FF images flash by I'm
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
We never watch commercials (Score:5, Interesting)
We notice an amusing side-effect of this whenever we go out to the movies (once every 3 months or so), because we don't recognize any of the posters for upcoming movies! Virtually all the previews we see in the theater are brand new to us. The only reason we know about new movies at all is by media buzz ('Da Vinci Code,' 'Brokeback Mountain', or word of mouth from friends ("Did you know they're making another X-Men sequel?"). It's kind of funny, and the first time we noticed it, it really reminded us of how dramatically our viewing habits have changed thanks to the PVR.
Re:We never watch commercials (Score:2)
Between MythTV and AdBlock Plus in Firefox, my life is nearly ad free and I think I like it. If I feel like seeing a movie in the theater, there are plenty of sites wher
Re:We never watch commercials (Score:4, Interesting)
My sentiments exactly. Unfortunately, it seems we are in the minority. Like spammers, advertisers get monetary rewards for intrusive advertising because there are just enough suckers out there to make it profitable. The rest of us suffer for it.
Re:We never watch commercials (Score:2)
news != advertisement (ideally)
Do you really research every product you buy? When you need a bottle of shampoo, do you have a chemistry book and a copy of Consumer Reports handy?
Most shampoos are pretty much the same anyway, so it doesn't really matter (to me). Either i just stick with a single, randomly selected type or I use whatever the wife picks up. Either way,
Re:We never watch commercials (Score:2)
-matthew
Re:We never watch commercials (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are watching a show at 9:00 or 9:30, you will see a lot of ads for the 10:00 news. We don't record the news, but occasionally they will have a pretty good teaser and we'll stop and watch it. Bummer is, we are ALWAYS watching after the fact so we can't switch over and start recording the news because it's typically finished before we notice.
What I might be interested in is "Sets" of adds. Upcoming specials on the network channels, u
Re:We never watch commercials (Score:2)
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
Spoken like a true HDTV newbie.
I was like that once. When I first got HD, I would watch anything - as long as it was in hi-def. Even the most moronic sitcoms were great to watch if they were in hi-def.
But that effect wore off after about 9 months. Eventually it wears off for everybody, it will for you too.
Overlay- neat idea, advertisers will kill this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Given the many content industry executives' opinions regarding "not watching advertising == theft", how do you think they would react to basically being told that instead of the marginal "blipverts" you get when watching, now
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
I couldn't agree more. I will usually sit through Geico commericals. The Fed Ex one just got me rolling on the floor when I first saw it. Then there is the
Truth is... People don't mind com
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
Hehehe, yeah, that fnord commercial is the funniest, too bad most people never see it.
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:3, Insightful)
Huh? "Breather"? Maybe if you're watching The Godfather trilogy, or something on that scale, you might want a bathroom break every couple of hours. But are you so out of shape (mentally and/or physically) you can't make it through a 22-minute (skipping commercials) sit com without a "breather"?
I was a late-comer to "Lost" and caught up by downloading most of the first season. It w
Geico (Score:2)
We stop for every Geico commercial - even scroll back to the beginning. My wife gets a kick out of its accent.
Otherwise I watch a new ad usually once, if I happen to see a split-second of it when skipping and it looks interesting. (Note: Person standing on white soundstage talking is not interesting, even if they are holding
Re:Geico (Score:2)
I think he sounds a lot like Charlie Watts of the Rolling Stones...he doesn't move his lips much either..
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2, Insightful)
Can't wait for the paranoiacs to come out of the bushes on this one....not my intent, but expected.
I actually Tivo the superbowl so I can watch the commerci
Some commercials are worth watching... (Score:2)
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
Let us thumbs up or thumbs down commercials.
This way, Tivo Corp could clue in Madison Avenue when they are really, really, REALLY annoying the customer.
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
What I think would work is if Tivo kept advertising management simple:
Brought to you by Google ads! (Score:2)
Instead of ads for tampons, SUV's, and herpes medication, I might be inclined to sit through commercial breaks if they went something like this:
"Hey there Mr. Pion from 21 Jump Street, would you like your lawn mowed tomorrow for only $39.99? Call Honest Bob's lawn care now!"
Hell yeah I'd like my lawn mowed for $39.99!
Or h
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
-- The network commercials that are inserted by the parent network themselves. (Like FOX, ABC, HBO)
-- the regional or cable-provider based ones that are inserted into the proper space by the cable provider (Adelphia or Comcast corporate level)
-- and then the local ads inserted by your local cable provider. (Comcast of Whoville.)
Have you ever seen a commercial startup
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
Exactly!
Instead of downloading the mostly useless Showcase ads, why can't Tivo learn what products I am/not interested in,
download ads for those products instead, and overlay them over the broadcast ads that I don't care about?
Sure, the advertiser I'm not watching gets shafted, but they could easily come up with a way to track that
and compensate them appropriately. And advertisers would get valuabl
Re:some personal thoughts about advertising (Score:2)
No...there is another caveman commercial, from FedEx. The one caveman doesn't use fedex..walks outside, kicks a small dinosaur...and then is stomped on himself by a large foot....
Both are pretty good for commercials...but, I got tired of them both after the first 2-3 times of seeing them. My tivo is packed up in storage right now (post Katrina withdrawal from NOLA), but, I
ReplayTV (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:ReplayTV (Score:3, Insightful)
Tivo's business model? (Score:3, Insightful)
They're migrating to advertising $$$ to prop things up.
You'd think Tivo wouldn't be so desperate since they got that big deal with Comcast(?).
It's a shame where Tivo has headed.
Re:Tivo's business model? (Score:2)
Absolutely correct, could never be said except on boardz, & whoever market parent Troll is either a 'tard ot tivo stockholder.
buttons.. (Score:2, Funny)
the average TiVo household makes "something like" 357 clicks per day. With 4.4 million households, this works out to be over a half a billion clicks every single year. No wonder my fast forward button wore off on my remote
So what happened to my pause button?.. uh... nevermind.
Re:buttons.. (Score:2)
It won't.... (Score:2)
So it doesn't really matter what Tivo does, until my cable company, or Scientific Atlanta / Cisco Systems, implements the same features.
Cable companies control the DVR space now. Tivo is just a nitch player that happened to have started it all.
Re:It won't.... (Score:2)
-matthew
Re:It won't.... (Score:2)
You know...I'd forgotten they switched to this. I'd not buy a Tivo now, since you cannot really 'buy' it, but, only rent it.
I prefer how I got mine...purchase unit (with rebate), and lifetime subscription. When I get it outta storage someday, I gotta make sure and make a backup of the HD...so I can keep it working in perpetuity (sp?)....
Couldn't expect it to last (Score:2, Insightful)
-matthew
Bah, screw Tivo. (Score:3, Interesting)
One word - HDTV (was:Bah, screw Tivo) (Score:2)
Re:One word - HDTV (was:Bah, screw Tivo) (Score:2)
(BTW - Redundant mod? check the timestamps, I was the first one to bring it up on this post
Re:One word - HDTV (was:Bah, screw Tivo) (Score:2)
Re:One word - HDTV (was:Bah, screw Tivo) (Score:2)
It's one thing when you're talking about $200 media players and quite another when you are talking about $2000 TVs.
Choice... (Score:4, Insightful)
Both satellite and cable have had it screwed up for a long time, advertisements and I am paying for the cable. At least stations like HBO and Showtime are still ad free, but the thing that TiVo should enable is a choice.
Re:Choice... (Score:2)
Advertising hasn't subsidized most of cable TV to the point of cheap or freeness. Maybe network TV, sure, but cable TV? No way. When you pay 100 a month for basic channels and services, there's no way that you should have to see the staggering am
Re:Choice... (Score:2)
Damn dude, where do you live? I've never heard of basic cable being THAT much. Most I've ever paid for basic cable is about $40/mo. If you get the really limited basic, it is in the teens of dollars.
If you just splice into your cable broadband line, and don't subscribe to cable tv...and just take the tv off the spliced line...you pay $0 e
Tenuous relationship with my TV (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Tenuous relationship with my TV (Score:2)
Tivo came along at just the right time for the networks in my case. I was *this* close to "killing my television" if for no other reason than I was bored with it. Tivo gave me some incentive to keep watching. If ads become forced again the TV will find a home at Goodwill.
Re:Tenuous relationship with my TV (Score:2)
Re:Tenuous relationship with my TV (Score:2)
They'll just run ads *during* the shows (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, more and more often I see an item in Dave's Top Ten List that references some consumer product, usually one which is currently being promoted. No such thing as bad publicity!
what's really the product (Score:2, Insightful)
Six easy steps to corporate suicide... (Score:2)
The day Madison Avenue considers TiVo as anything but a mortal enemy, I will switch to using a Myth box.
Currently, TiVo has a slight edge, at least for those of us fortunate enough to have free lifetime basic service (Yeah, suuuuuure I'll upgrade... Just as soon as they offer that free for life). But if they make it progressively more difficult to avoid ads, I'll just avoid TiVo.
In
Re:Six easy steps to corporate suicide... (Score:2)
That's not really going to happen, what IS happening is TiVO is doing the best tracking of TV viewing habits ever. Their hope is that the targetted TV viewing habits can lead to targetted TV advertising in the same way that Google Ads allow targetted advertising of WWW users. Targetted ads are much more valuable than un-targetted ads, and you
my experience (Score:5, Interesting)
Skip the ads permanently (Score:2)
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/User_Manual:I ndex [mythtv.org]
From MythTV Background:
Background
I got tired of the rather low quality cable box that AT&T Broadband provides with their digital cable service. It's slow to change channels, ridden with ads, and the program guide is a joke. So, I figured it'd be fun to try and build a replacement. Yes, I could have just bought a TiVo, but I wanted to have more than just a PVR -- I want a webbrowser built in, a mail client, maybe some games. Bas
Changing the way I view TV (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm predicting that the next Tivo headline involves giving all info to the NSA.
Re:Changing the way I view TV (Score:2)
I wouldn't bet against you on that. I'd use MythTV (or nothing at all) over Tivo just on the privacy issue alone.
There may already be a list of suspects - er, people - who are known to access sources of information other than Fox News...
Hey - this sounds great! (Score:4, Insightful)
We (kids + parents) almost NEVER watch live TV anymore and, in fact, usually deliberately wait until the show has started for 15-20 minutes so we can fast-forward through ALL of the commercials. For us, the 30% watching commercials is really a lot closer to 5% (max).
That said, my kids watch music videos and we'd definitely order CDs or have the songs automatically emailed to us if that was an option. That would probably double (or triple) our music purchases.
For things like the FedEx caveman commercial, why not let TiVo email us a link to the video on the FedEx website - that's great for me and great for FedEx - AND I'd probably forward it to me friends. Wow!
I often see commercials that I'd like more info on, but I forget about them 30 seconds later. If that was linked into an email where I could get more info on my own time, then GREAT!! I'd LOVE it. Particularly if it took 2 seconds to request so it didn't interupt my show. (And as long as TiVo managed my email and sent me the links - I wouldn't want to get massive spamming).
That said, users shouldn't worry - TiVo knows it's primary success comes from users who want to skip commercials so I seriously doubt they'll do anything that jepordizes or alienates those users.
Re:Hey - this sounds great! (Score:2)
I really don't understand why companies don't post their ads to their website. There have been plenty of times when I wanted to refer people to a clever commercial or when I've heard about a commercial that I haven't seen. If I could easily find commercials online, I'd be far more likely to refer to/watch t
Re:Hey - this sounds great! (Score:2)
Me, I just mute the damn commercials and watch TV normally. What's the big fucking deal?
Ad quality (Score:3, Interesting)
The point I'm trying to make is that if ads are made interesting and entertaining I'll be much more likely to watch them. If they get on my nerves then I'll be sure to skip them by whatever means necessary. If advertisers keep this in mind then they'll do a better job of getting eyeballs in front of their ads. Of course, entertainment value depends a great deal on relevence, so better targeting of ads, like what TiVo hopes to do, is big.
Re:Ad quality (Score:2)
Nope, but those ads are pretty bad too... The ones I'm talking about: "Quality, Comfort, and Price".
Re:Ad quality (Score:2)
I was thinking Bernie and Phyl, but Bob's is worse. I wonder if that advertising tactic works on anyone--annoying==memorable. Yeah, thanks to those obnoxious jingles I remember 1-800-54-GIANT. I mean, I remember to call any one but th
RTFA much? (Score:2, Informative)
I cant remember the last time I watched a commerical. *everything* I watch is recorded, so I can skip ads. If I am channel surfing, and find something I want to watch thats not on one of the movie channels, I record it, and watch it later, so I can skip commercials.
As long as my Tivo allows me to skip commericals, I will use it. When the day comes when I have to watch commercials,
If they start forcing me to watch commercials... (Score:2)
It's bad enough I have to pay to watch TV these days, I shouldn't be forced to listen to adverts as well. It's just like dr
Re:If they start forcing me to watch commercials.. (Score:3, Informative)
From the article:
'"The consumer is in charge and we need to respect that," said Kent. "Our consumer satisfaction rate is very high and if you respect that and remember that they're the ones who decide, not the networks, not the adv
Re:If they start forcing me to watch commercials.. (Score:2)
I still use a VCR... (Score:3, Funny)
TiVo needs to innovate (Score:4, Insightful)
What TiVo needs to do is innovate some more. Bring us something that consumers want but can't get elswhere. Do something like Kaleidescape [kaleidescape.com] (but WAY cheaper!), add good TV time/place shifting, stream videos from Netflix, just BE the the entertainment hub in every way possible. Hell, partner with Nintendo to get some Wii hardware under the hood and integrated. Do...something! Because just adding more drive space and HDTV is not going to keep the lead.
Start with decoupling the server from the client. They've started that with the sharing idea, but go all the way. There is NO reason that I should need a recorder in every room. I only need one recorder (as long as it has multiple tuners), but I need many players. And if the players are cheaper and smaller, then you have a new product to market.
Most of this isn't hard. MythTV does much of it already, but Myth just doesn't yet do all this in a consumer friendly off-the-shelf hardware package. TiVo can bring this to reality. They have the street cred with retailers to get a revolutionary new device on Best Buy's shelves.
Hell, just partner with MythTV and offer GOOD prepackaged Myth boxes for all I care, but do something besides offering my yet larger HDDs in lieu of real innovation. 60 hours of TV is plenty. Give me a reason to sit down and watch it.
Tom Caudron
http://tom.digitalelite.com/ [digitalelite.com]
I don't care what they do, for now. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll care when I move to HDTV. But I mostly only watch PBS and news, anyway. If I have to, I'll use my USB2-based HDTV dongle to record those, so I'm more concerned with whether DVICO comes out with OSX drivers
deja vu all over again (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, the "reward" bit is one thing sorely missing from Tivo's new venture. What value, beyond possible entertainment, does the customer get from viewing the videos? They can get video entertainment elsewhere (on their own Tivo box, for goodness sake) so why give benefit to Tivo and the advertisers by watching them? It makes no sense...
But which 'customers'? (Score:2)
And by 'customer', they mean 'advertiser'.
Web 2.0 Business Model (Score:2)
1. Grovel web for podcasts about company.
2. Have blog partner summarize podcast.
3. Post link to
4. Profit!
This is why I use bittorrent... (Score:2)
The They've Already Got You Business Model (Score:2)
A la Carte, eventually (Score:2)
Well, it'll get Tivo taken off the list of pontentials, certainly. The trouble with directed advertising so far has consistently been that it doesn't work. Just as the telemarketer will push you to consider something you clearly don't want, because some people can be pressured into buying things they don't want, advertisers want, certainly to be directed at solid potential customers, sure - but they want to spray all over everybody else too,
For smart consumers, it changes nothing (Score:2)
I hate to sound elitist, but for smart consumers, it changes nothing. Smart consumers have either built their own MythTV boxes, or use ReplayTV units, neither of which are affected by whatever the hell TiVo does. Both MythTV and ReplayTV boxen skip commercials without additional advertising (sometimes automatically), share shows with other units (sometimes over the internet), etc., etc...
If you lack curiousity to research other solutions,
This is a wonderful development (Score:2)
Seems like this can be a win-win for viewers and advertisers.
Viewers Win
- You still don't have to watch anything you don't want to
- Longer ads usually mean better, more creative content since they have more than 15-20 seconds to beat you over the head with the message
- You can watch full-length movie previews (I happen to really like doing this)
- If
Customer centered? (Score:2)
Re:Unsettling.. (Score:3, Insightful)
You misspelled "someday."
KFG
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2, Interesting)
The last thing I watched live was this year's Superbowl (oddly enough, for the commercials). Before that? The previous year's Superbowl.
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure they do. People watch lots of "live" TV; however, I think it's getting less and less common. As people are all very busy, they still want to watch shows,
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
It shows that you don't have a DVR. We've been using MythTV for a year or so now and our experience seems to mirror most TiVO/MythTV users. At first we used to want to watch things wh
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
I've always hated commercials, but since I've stopped watching nearly everything on live TV, I get almost hostile toward them now. I can't stand having a program interrupted for 5 minutes (and commercial breaks seem to be getting longer
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
But yeah, football is absolutely ridiculous about breaks. It is as if the game is designed for broadcast TV.
-matthew
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
No, watching a sporting event with TiVo/Myth and skipping commercials is not the same as watching it "live".
It's better.
The game has more impact, more excitement when I'm not distracted by ads whose content/tone is it odds with the action.
Plus the flexibility is incred
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
Hell, for the most part, I have no idea what channel or time my programs come one...and I could not care less. I watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch it...often days after it is originally broadcast.
I rarely see an ad either, and I watch a LOT of tv.
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
The only time I watch live TV is when I'm visiting my parents. At home, MythTV records everything I watch. Before MythTV, I used a TiVo. Before the TiVo, I used a couple of VCRs. One way or another, I've timeshifted everything I watch since 1992. Life is too short to waste on commercials.
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
5. Start researching things to watch
6. Give up on that and just watch reruns of the shows you used to watch week by week but have since been canceled and gone into syndication.
7. Stop watching TV altogether and rely on Bittorrent and Netflix.
8. ???
9. Profit!
-matthew
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
Can't you get the DVDs through Netflix?
6b. Wife reads Entertainment Weekly and adds new stuff all the time.
My wife doesn't read that kind of trash.
6c. PBS does a fine job of self-promotion.
I'll give you that.
7b. Bittorrent not worth my time to download to pc, transfer to cd/dvd, get a new card and so on. I get enough computer problem crap at work. Plus I have 10 years of stargate to catch up on (see 6a).
Advanag
Re:does tivo matter to adverts? (Score:2)
That was just my tivo-lution (actually, myth-olution), anyway. I was actually serious about the the "Profit!" part because now I save $80 a month on a cable bill. It is amazing how much cable costs these days. I just can't justify that kind of dough.
-matthew
Re:get MythTV (Score:2)
Of course not, that's why I used Gentoo so I only had to emerge my components, and the dependencies take care of themselves...
Actually, more to the point. Sure I'd do this for my parents. Once you DO get it set up and running, it stays running pretty well without problems I find. No need to keep upgradi
Re:get MythTV (Score:2)
I've managed those with the Atlantic ocean between them and me.