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Apple Recycling Old Macs for Free 190

Posted by CowboyNeal
from the not-just-for-doorstops-anymore dept.
charleste writes "CNN is reporting that Apple is going to recycle Macs for free. I wonder if this means they will actually recycle them in Cupertino, or sent overseas to be dumped as many 'recycled' computers do, or if they will actually mine them. And does this make the MacQuarium obsolete?"
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Apple Recycling Old Macs for Free

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  • by crazyjeremy (857410) * on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:08AM (#15228179) Homepage Journal
    In other news, I will now recycle ANY piece of computer equipment for free. Simply get the device to me (in working order) and I will disassemble, dismember, shoot, melt, sell or attack it with a cowbell.

    • by joe 155 (937621) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:36AM (#15228331) Journal
      I am also now offering a similar service, where I will just use the mac, hell, I'd even pay for the shipping... It seems like giving them away to people would be a far better way of getting rid of old, but still usable, computers... onyl recycle when they no longer work
      • by Darkon (206829) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:44AM (#15228370)
        It seems like giving them away to people would be a far better way of getting rid of old, but still usable, computers

        Not necessarily. Often these old machines are highly inefficient in terms of the computing power they provide vs the electricity they consume. Sure, having one of these [sun.com] at home would be cool - in fact I did used to use the next model down as my home server - but these days I just don't want to either pay the power bill or try to justify the waste of resources. Sometimes it really is better just to let this old kit go to silicon heaven.
        • by renoX (11677)
          I don't know sure, the old computer is less efficient than a new one, but once you take into account the energy used to *make* the new computer, I doubt that you saved energy, more likely you wasted energy.
          • The energy used to make a computer is necessarily factored into its price; the manufacturers can't afford otherwise or they'd go out of business.

            Therefore, you don't need to do very much fancy analysis to determine if it's worth buying a new computer or using an old one. If (cost of energy * expected use time for new computer + price of new computer) < (cost of energy * expected use time for old computer), then you're saving energy by buying a new one.

            There are some externalities with the new computer, b
            • You're right about the price of a computer includes the energy made to use it (and in Europe it also include the price to recycle it as this is rquired by the law).
              But it's still very hard to do some evaluation: if you keep your old computer, when you have to buy a new one (because the old one doesn't work anymore), the new computer will be cheaper and use less energy than if you buy a computer now, your formula doesn't take this into account..

              So it's quite difficult to compute, plus you don't know when you
              • if you keep your old computer, when you have to buy a new one (because the old one doesn't work anymore), the new computer will be cheaper and use less energy than if you buy a computer now, your formula doesn't take this into account..

                While I'm hardly going to pretend that that formula is some sort of magic formula that completely encapsulates the reasoning behind whether you should buy a new computer, even if only for energy reasons, you're actually wrong that I don't cover that case. That's part of what
        • by tomhudson (43916) <barbara.hudson@NOSpAM.barbara-hudson.com> on Saturday April 29, 2006 @12:02PM (#15228463) Journal
          Maybe they don't want a repeat of the old Mac Clone - where people cold take the custom bios chips out of a defunct mac and use it to legally run a clone made by Franklin Computer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clones [wikipedia.org]

          a large amount of this system software was included in the Macintosh's ROM chips. Hence any competitor who attempted to create a Macintosh clone would have to either illegally duplicate all the copyrighted code in the ROMs -- in which case Apple could legally quash the manufacturer -- or reverse-engineer the ROMs, which would have been an enormous and costly process without certainty of success.

          The strategy of suppressing clone development was successful; from 1986 to 1991, several manufacturers created Macintosh clones, obtaining their ROMs by actually purchasing one of Apple's Macintosh computers and removing from it the required parts, then installing those parts in the clone's case.

          ...

          Before true clones were available, the Atari ST could be converted into a Mac by adding the third-party Spectre GCR emulator (which required that the user purchase a set of Mac ROMs). The Amiga could also be converted into a Mac with similar emulators. Since Apple Computer never manufactured a 68060 based Mac, the fastest way to run native 68000 MacOS applications on real hardware was to run it on an Atari or Amiga.

          So your dead mac is worth money. Pull the roms, send the rest back.

          • Back before there were powerbooks (in fact before I was into Macs) there was a company that made Mac portables. The catch was that you had to remove the ROM and the CPU and install it into the laptop. Anyone remember the name of the company that sold these and what they were called?
          • I don't think this has to do with Mac Clones. I think this is just one way that Apple can continue to be progressive in their marketing.

            Maybe I have a skewed view of the typical Mac user - but I consider them more progressive, open to new technologies and, well - maybe even more likely to be a vegetarian or drive an economical but classy car then a PC user.

            You must remember that Microsoft won't be able to compete on this level - they don't make the hardware and likely won't recycle it for free. The averag
          • by 1u3hr (530656)
            So your dead mac is worth money. Pull the roms, send the rest back.

            10 years ago that was true. Now it's cheaper to buy a used G3 or G4 Mac entire than screw around with clones or emulation (if any of these are still sold at all) of an obsolete OS.

            • So your dead mac is worth money. Pull the roms, send the rest back.

              10 years ago that was true. Now it's cheaper to buy a used G3 or G4 Mac entire than screw around with clones or emulation (if any of these are still sold at all) of an obsolete OS.

              Depends on what you want to do. Having a legit copy of the roms means being able to legitimately run emulators on todays hardware - a lot faster than a G3.

          • A few points:

            1) Franklin was an Apple II clone with pirated Apple firmware. Nothing to do with Macs

            2) In the 68K days, many Macs came with ROMs socketed in SIMM slots, so they were very easy to remove and use in a clone system. At my university, these ROM SIMMs were frequently stolen by dasterdly Amigians and Atarians.

            3) Some of the later official PPC clones had ROMs, but they were soldered on rather than socketed. At this point the ROM was basically a copy-protection dongle rather than something that saved
            • Just a quick point - unsoldering a ROM is no big deal. Heck, when the cpu blew on my first computer, I had to unsolder it and solder in a new one. I guess that's becoming one of the "lost arts."
          • Before true clones were available, the Atari ST could be converted into a Mac by adding the third-party Spectre GCR emulator (which required that the user purchase a set of Mac ROMs). The Amiga could also be converted into a Mac with similar emulators. Since Apple Computer never manufactured a 68060 based Mac, the fastest way to run native 68000 MacOS applications on real hardware was to run it on an Atari or Amiga.

            --wiki

            So your dead mac is worth money. Pull the roms, send the rest back.

            That seems to be

          • ROMs? What ROMs?

            Apple changed the OS away from ROMs about six or seven years ago. Or was it mid-90s? Any Mac with a ROM is so old that it's probably best recycled anyway.
        • by Bert64 (520050)
          I still have an E450 running at home, 4x 480mhz cpus and 4gig ram... It's far cheaper than a modern system capable of handling the same kind of load. It may not be the best system for brute force processing, but it's very stable and will handle a high load easily.
          • It may not be the best system for brute force processing, but it's very stable and will handle a high load easily.

            But really, how much high load do you really need at home, anyway?

            Even if you're in the hosting business (and who in their right mind would do that from home?), throughput would be much more important than load.

            I suppose you could be a computational chemist or doing bioinformatics stuff from home, but even then, I would think it would be cheaper to get a few x86 boxes and cluster them for

        • Often these old machines are highly inefficient in terms of the computing power they provide vs the electricity they consume.

          Yes, computing power-per-watt is less, but:

          • Sometimes that's all the computing power someone needs. Further, using an older machine that requires less power (i.e. my Mac LCIII ran at about 20 watts versus 70 watts for my PowerBook) would therefore be more efficient.
          • You also need to consider the energy and resources to dispose of the old machine. Don't forget about the non-dol
          • My Powerbook G4/867 runs at 14 watts at idle with the hard drive spinning and the screen at its dimmest setting. It can go up to 32 watts at 66% CPU with the optical drive running. At that speed, it can finish any task in a tiny fraction of the time needed for an LCIII, and can quickly return to idle.

            Old equipment without power-saving features doesn't necessarily save anything over modern equipment.

            • where do you get your figures? i've never seen a way to measure overall power draw of a system (only temperature of various components) without getting out the multimeter.

              i would seriously like to know. i love seeing those kinds of statistics, especially in real time!
              • I use a Kill-A-Watt [p3international.com] meter. It displays volts, amps and watts in realtime, and has a kilowatt counter built-in.

                I used it to replace a server in my house (old server: HP Vectra VLi8 PIII-650, 46 watts idle, new server: Toshiba Tecra 8100 PIII-650 laptop, 15 watts idle), and find some surprising waste, such as a set of Boston Acoustics speakers that drew a continuous 40 watts, even when "turned off", and my HP Laserjet 2100, which draws 13-16 watts in powersave mode. (The speakers are now on a power stri

        • There are a TON of people who still can't afford a new computer. They could deal with not running it 24/7 if it allowed their kids to do their homework.
        • But "recycling" computers is the epitome of wasting resources. Computers are, for the most part, a cradle to grave product. Very few components are successfully salvaged and recycled. What's left generates e-waste in the form of components that are dumped and or incinerated. And typically this is done cheaply overseas via people who do not aim to contain the toxicity of dumped materials or build high efficiency incinerators which limit pollutants.

          Then there is the energy that is consumed during this process
        • Most people hardly use the computing power of a late-90s Mac (typing letters and reading email and browsing the web is hardly CPU intensive) so the lower overall wattage of the machine will mean it's more energy efficient. CPU instructions per watt is pretty irrelevant unless you really are using the processing power, and not having the computer sitting waiting on I/O all the time.
        • that kind of ananlysis works for servers etc

          but you can't put more than one machine on a desktop generally (you can but it requires quite advanced trickery). So if they don't need more power than the old machine provides and the old machine isn't some insanely power hogging server then I don't see the issue.
      • I have an old Mac you're welcome to. If you're serious, you're quite welcome to it. It's late 68K or early PPC era (not at home now, can't check the model info) but I really do want it out of the basement and I'd prefer to give it to someone who really wants it even over the local e-recycling dropoff.
        • (I'm assuming that your american) That is a really generous offer and I'd love to be able to take it up but i'm one of the minorities here who is english. That kinda means that any potential gain for the environment would be more than lost by having to ship it and I don't have any US dollars in an account that I can write a cheque for so it would be quite hard to pay for postage aswell, but thanks for the offer, maybe your local school might be interested?
    • Some Context (Score:3, Interesting)

      by fm6 (162816)
      In California, and many other places, it's now illegal to just throw old electronics in the trash. So Apple is actually supplying a valuable service.
    • Apple are actually taking -any- PC for manufacturing "because we like switchers, too".

      At this point Schiller added that "I think there are a lot of PCs that should be recycled"

  • That was one of the best things to do with an SI. I used to make them somewhat regularly, they were fun and great conversation pieces. Plus they were the perfect size for a college desk.

    • The Macquarium SE on my desk (I do tech support at an art school) is easily the most-commented-about aspect of my office decor... which also includes several paintings, photographs, and other works of art I've created. {shrug}

      My other recycling project is upgrading a Mac SE to run OS X. Nothing terribly challenging, just an SVGA 9" CRT and a Mac Mini mounted inside. The best part of that is the "Mac SE X" nameplate on the front. {grin}

      Of course Macquaria are really tangential to the question of Mac re

      • Out of curiousity, where do you get a 9" CRT with decent resolution? I think it would be easier to find a LCD, since those are going in mini-DVD players and in-car video all the time. Sounds like a cool project, though... I might rip you off and make my own.
        • My initial plan was to use an LCD, but I couldn't find one the right size and shape. Most of the LCDs being made in the 9-10" range are "widescreen" format, and/or overpriced touch screens. I finally went with a same-size monochrome CRT, to keep the original look of the system, and to draw out the "wait, how did you..." reaction a little longer from those who realize instinctively that there's no way OS X could ever run on a stock SE. ("Well, I had to piggyback a G4 upgrade card on top of a PowerPC repla
  • by DAldredge (2353)
    This isn't about being green, it is about removing older macs from the 2nd hand market. The exact same reason that HP offers a similar program.
    • by anonicon (215837) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:21AM (#15228246)
      This isn't about being green, it is about removing older macs from the 2nd hand market. The exact same reason that HP offers a similar program.

      OK. As long as it achieves the same effect, whether by some altruistic concern for the environment or through sheer greed, it's all good. Besides, it helps the individual Mac resllers who will be able to maintain a greater profit margin on used equipment due to less product glut on the open market.

      Chuck
    • by moo083 (716213)
      Not exactly. They don't just take Macs. They take any old computer. Theoretically, if you still wanted to use your old computer, you could give them the computer that was the old one before you got the new one. At some point, you'll want to get rid of the old one. It seems really wierd right now, but at some point, its likely that I will want to recycle this Macbook Pro in front of me. Precisely, it will likely be in six years, which is three years after I buy my next computer.
      • In 6 years, I'd probably still take it assuming its still working. :(
      • Judging by the way the used Mac market works currently, in six years you can probably sell it for $300 - $500. OTOH, if you have a G3 product or a sub Ghz G4, it probably won't be worth your while to sell. Higher speed G4s will be borderline, and G5s will probably still be worth something, despite the transition to Intel.
        • The dividing line seems to be which computers can run the latest Mac OS X and which cannot. The Pismo model PowerBook G3 is still relatively valuable (about $400) while the older models of the same laptop, which have the same CPU but lack FireWire ports and cannot run Tiger, are worth rather less.
          • Yes, that is true, although there is a free patch [macsales.com] that will let you run OS X on some older hardware. Not surprisingly, this patch is distributed by OWC [macsales.com], a company that sells upgrades for Macs.

            I think that the transition to Intel CPUs will be another such dividing line. If you buy a non-intel Mac the day before that model goes to Intel, your resale value down the road will be considerably less than if you waited a day.
    • by reporter (666905) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:45AM (#15228388) Homepage
      DAldredge (2353) incorrectly stated, "This isn't about being green, ..." On the contrary, the CNN report [cnn.com] mentioned in the lead article starting this thread of discussion talks explicitly about recycling.

      How has Apple handled recycling?

      According to the "The 2005 Computer Report Card [svtc.org]" by the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition, "Apple, Dell, Gateway, and HP are the companies that use recyclers that have signed the Electronic Recyclers Pledge of Stewardship. To learn more about the Recycler Pledge go to: http://www.svtc.org///cleancc/recycle/recycler_ple dge.htm [svtc.org]".

      In that report, note that Apple received the second highest score in the category of "DISPOSAL CHAIN". That category indicates the degree to which a company will audit the entire disposal chain (including work sub-contracted to suspicious companies in China, Taiwan Province, and Korea) to ensure that recycling of old computer equipment is done in accordance with the most ethical, most responsible practices.

      Note that Apple management actually signed the Electronics Recycler's Pledge of True Stewardship [svtc.org], committing to the gold standard of ethical, responsible recycling.

      Finally, the recent decision by Apple management to take back old equipment for free is probably due to the tireless efforts of the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition [svtc.org] (SVTC) and other groups in the Computer TAKE-BACK Campaign [computertakeback.com] (CTBC). When Steve Jobs gave the keynote speech at the 2005 graduation ceremony at Stanford University, CTBC flew a banner over the ceremony [e-takeback.org]. The banner exclaimed, "STEVE - DON'T BE A MINI PLAYER - RECYCLE ALL E-WASTE".

      • Indeed... (Score:3, Informative)

        by Svartalf (2997)
        The Computer Take-Back Campaign was canvassing this neighborhood for signatures and all just about a week or so ago.

        They've been really aggressive about getting letters, etc. to Jobs and BOD members about doing take-backs on the computers (They already do them on iPods for free...) and to handle the returns in a responsible manner.
    • It's Saturday, you don't have to sip the anti-koolaid today.

      What you wrote might be true if the program was restricted to recycling old Macs. This program covers any computer; the only requirement is that you purchase a new Mac to participate. More details [apple.com]. More info [apple.com].

      HP, AFAIK, charges a small fee [hp.com] to recycle your computer.

      If you're going to slag on companies, at least get your info straight. Then you'll have some factual basis for your cynicism.
    • That might well be a factor. But it's also true that the cost of recycling old hardware is a big disincentive to upgrade.
  • recycling... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SolusSD (680489)
    what all is involved in recycling a computer? I know there is quite a bit of lead on the circuit boards that needs to be handled properly, but what exactly do they do with it?
    • Re:recycling... (Score:3, Informative)

      by jridley (9305)
      I don't know about Apple's program, but in general electronics "recycling" involves shipping them to some impoverished country where people making practically nothing remove chips from boards by burning them over a coal fire to melt the lead/tin solder.
      As you can imagine, these people are not exactly working in healthy conditions. In fact, the report I was listening to recently said that the operations were polluting the area so badly that this little village by a river had to start importing bottled water
      • Re:recycling... (Score:2, Informative)

        by parvin (846446)
        Perhaps you were listening to one of NPR's excellent reports on the environmental costs of electronics "recycling". You can read or listen here [npr.org]
      • Re:recycling... (Score:2, Informative)

        by boingo82 (932244)
        All in all, you're probably better dumping the stuff in a landfill here.

        Apple tried that already [wikipedia.org] when in 1989 they dumped about 2700 Apple Lisas in a Utah landfill, because the tax writeoff was better that way than if they donated them to charity.

    • You set the old computer out at the curb. By the morning its gone. its been 'recycled'.
  • by thatguywhoiam (524290) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:17AM (#15228222)
    I'll bet this is a directive from SJ. He's a pretty green dude.

    I remember a quote from him once, pretty excellent example of Steve Jobs' mentality actually. It was both very poetic and utterly ridiculous. This was from back in the early Apple days before he was fired by Scully. He said (paraphrasing), 'I want a computer factory that takes raw beach sand in one end and outputs fully assembled Macs from just that raw material.' What a crazy, wonderful idea.

  • by coffeecan (842352) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:23AM (#15228261)
    Literally. There is more gold per-ton in old computer parts than gold ore, and its cheaper to extract. so it makes sense given the recent rise of precious metals for apple to salvage as much of these resources as possible. This Free program is probably going to turn a profit.
    • by shashi (56458) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:30AM (#15228301) Homepage

      Very true. There are also a lot of metals besides gold that are worth more (though in smaller amounts, like platinum). I've been part of a business before where we chunked up old Macs and PCs, packed all the circuit boards up in huge wooden crates, and sent them off to a recovery mill... a couple months later, a few tons of scrap is turned into a check for $20,000. It's not bad money but it takes a lot of manual labor to separate it out (i.e. separating circuits from CRT's and plastic) or the mill will charge you to do the separation and sorting.

      Also, newer computers have much lower amounts of these materials, making them almost worthless. The sweet spot are the 68020's and 486's (the heavy processors are where you get the most precious metals per oz.).

  • Apple has been doing this with batteries for years. If you have old batteries from apple products, just take them to the apple store and they will take them off your hands for you. This is a much better option than sending it to a landfill.
    • The batteries are one of the worst parts of a laptop for the environment, of course all batteries are pretty bad if not disposed of properly - you really have to watch out for the cadium ones, just one can contaminate about 10,000 litres of water
  • Obsolete? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by oneiros27 (46144) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:24AM (#15228264) Homepage
    No, no... cost more...

    When there are less items available on the market, the value increases if there's still a demand for it. (if there's no demand, then the value's effectively 0)

    The conspiracy theorist would assume that Apple's trying to corner the market on MacQuariums, and they need more spare parts, so they're tricking people into giving them the parts under the assumption of 'recycling' (which it is). They might even have a company that's willing to buy lots of thousands of these for the very purpose. (pbfixit comes to mind)

    They might also find that it's more cost effective to strip and refurb some machines than to have new parts manufactured for those with extended warranties. (this assumes that the product is on the market long enough for people to recycle out of warranty machines while other people still have them under warranties)
  • A little research is a wonderful thing [apple.com]
    . Ahh, /. All the news that's fit to print several days ago.
  • Wow, why not a rebate of say 100.00 to make a user switch from win-ux and just fill a warehouse with the junk.


    When it's full they can have a new ad campaign with bulldozers loading barges with all the junk and crow about how many people switched. They could probably write it all off as marketing costs and sell more hardware to boot!. Apple wins!

  • If the machines are still working, then reusing them is going to be better than ripping them apart for the gold.
  • Staying in the US (Score:4, Informative)

    by bizard (691544) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:32AM (#15228314)
    At the announcement, Jobs specifically said that the recycling would all be done in the U.S. and not just shipped off to China.
  • by BearRanger (945122) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @11:41AM (#15228361)
    Not just Macs. Steve Jobs' quote at the shareholders meeting was something like: "We like switchers too."
  • Not just Macs... (Score:2, Informative)

    by zigziggityzoo (915650)
    Apple will recycle ANY computer you decide to unload on them when you purchase a new computer. Even your old 486 Win 3.1 box. That way, switchers get in on the recycling action too.

    Here's a snippet from the Shareholder meeting stating so. [tripod.com]
  • by suv4x4 (956391) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @12:53PM (#15228666)
    - Steve Jobs wants to take over the world
    - Apple all of a sudden recycles computers for free
    - Steve Jobs owns Apple

    This can mean only one thing: Steve Jobs has a new trapper keeper.

  • am i missing something?

    not free (you need to buy a mac). not macs (any computer as long as you buy a mac)
  • Just plug it in and wait for it to explode!
  • by Jon Abbott (723) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @02:30PM (#15229037) Homepage
    Neither Slashdot nor CNN posted Apple's official computer recycling webpage, so here it is [apple.com]. For the U.S. (excluding the Cupertino area) they are partnered with a company called Metech [recycleapc.com] to do the recycling. In Cupertino, Apple has had their own recycling facility for quite some time now that has freely accepted used Macs, PCs and some home electronics.
  • Hot on the heels of the bitchin' MacBook Pro is this little gem:

    In response, Jobs noted that the Sierra Club recently voted Apple one of its top 10 environmentally friendly companies. "So there is some kind of disconnect with your numbers," he said. Jobs also noted that Apple's new recycling program takes any computer, not just Macs, "because we like switchers, too."

    "I think there are a lot of PCs that should be recycled" Schiller added.

    teehee
  • There is an 8 dollar fee when you purchase Macs now... It's a Recycling Fee. So yeah... Not free. http://homepage.mac.com/xidius/17mbp.jpg [mac.com]
    • But why bother to RTFA?

      The old program costs you eight bucks, while the new one is free [apple.com]. The old program was still very reasonable.
      Starting in June, Apple will offer a free computer take-back program for U.S. customers who buy a new Mac through the Apple Store or an Apple retail store. Check back soon for more details.
    • It's just you. (Score:3, Informative)

      There's a mandatory recycling fee for monitors in California. Screens between 15" and 35" have an $8 fee (CRT and LCD). This only started last year, so it's misleading to say that just because you were charged a state-imposed tax on a newly purchased system, that it wasn't "free" to recycle your POS Pentium-III system. Heck, everyone has to charge the tax, but you don't see Fry's begging to take back your old systems*.

      From the .gov site: http://www.erecycle.org/fee.htm [erecycle.org]
      Or clearer details: http://www.mpcco [mpccorp.com]
  • sent overseas? (Score:3, Informative)

    by weg (196564) on Saturday April 29, 2006 @05:05PM (#15229557)
    I wonder if this means they will actually recycle them in Cupertino, or sent overseas to be dumped

    Do a little research before you submit a story next time.. especially if the story is several days old. From Apples homepage [apple.com]:

    Hazardous materials

    No hazardous waste from Apple's U.S. recycling program is shipped outside North America. All recovered materials are processed domestically, with the exception of some commodity materials that can be recycled for future use. Apple's recycling policies prohibit the use of recovered plastics as fuel in smelting.
  • Now one might explain why IBM suddenly is selling these [ibm.com] systems with very similar specs to these [apple.com]. Yes, the 185 is a bit neutered (memory, undocumented AIX only 3d graphics, PCI-X versus PCI-E), but they'd make for a nice system to use recycled 970's.
  • Actually, this is more like "Apple Complies with Electronic Waste Recycling Act of 2003 [ca.gov]". This has just become a big deal because, as of two weeks ago, you can't dispose of computers in the trash in California.

    The big push behind this is because of the phaseout of CRTs. Until recently, the leaded glass in CRTs could be recycled into new CRTs, and there was some value in used monitors. Now nobody wants the things, and CRTs are being discarded at a huge rate. So keeping all that lead out of landfills i

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