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Proposed Telescope Focuses Light Without Mirror Or Lens

Posted by Soulskill on Fri May 02, 2008 02:08 AM
from the i-can-see-clearly-now dept.
A team of scientists from Observatoire Midi Pyrénées in Toulouse, France have been working with an unusual technique for focusing light. It takes advantage of diffraction - the bending of waves when they encounter an obstacle in their path - to focus light as it passes through a foil sheet with precise holes in it. The scientists suggest that an orbital 30-meter imager could resolve planets the size of Earth within 30 light-years. In addition, the foil is much lighter than traditional materials, and thus easier to transport. "A Fresnel imager with a sheet of a given size has vision just as sharp as a traditional telescope with a mirror of the same size, though it collects just 10% or so of the light. It can also observe in the ultraviolet and infrared, in addition to visible light. The imager can take very detailed images with high contrast, which is great for 'being able to see a very faint object in the close vicinity of a bright one.'"
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  • Great, but will it get build before I'm dead?
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          "The only major obstacle being the materials used in building one."

          I was under the impression that the main impediment to large refractors is the "halo" effect (coloured rings around the edge of the image), this was the problem Newton solved with the reflector and it is why Newtonian telescopes are the norm. The halo is unoticable with a small high-quality refractor (eg: binoculars) but the effect rapidly deteriorates the usefullness of refractors as the size increases.

          No mention of wether this design
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            The gravity probes, as far as I am aware, do not have precisely synchronized flight, but very good knowledge of where each of them are. The science is extracted by measuring the changes in the spacecraft separation (I think the relative distance is known at the tens or hundreds of microns). Flying a separated telescope requires measuring and controlling separations and rotations to a level much more demanding than the GRACE satellites. In principle it can be done now (such as in the lab), but in practice

  • Looks like a sail... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sapphire wyvern (1153271) on Friday May 02 2008, @02:18AM (#23271648)
    Hmm, a large flat surface with holes in it.

    It looks like launching one of these babies would require solutions to the same technical problems as solar sails, ie stowing & unfolding once in orbit.

    Would it be possible to have the sheet do double duty, acting as both a Fresnel "lens" and a means of propulsion for the spacecraft? That might be a neat way of getting the instruments to a good location.
    • Hmm, bad form to reply to my own post.

      I note that one objection raised in the article is that since the focal length of this thing is measured in kilometres, the instruments would have to be borne on a separate spacecraft to the focussing sheet, and that keeping the two aligned when changing the orientation of the instrument would require a lot of fuel.

      This seems like it would be a perfect use for the solar sail technique; hopefully it would allow you to keep the instrument craft on a pretty much ballistic
    • I think you are missing a big point here. We're not talking about a solid sheet like a sail, but rather, a sheet which is X% holes, and for which the exact geometric arrangement of the holes is critical for the physics to work. Looks to me like one has even started to think about how it can survive the stresses of being launched at multiple G's.
      • by Agripa (139780) on Friday May 02 2008, @10:29AM (#23274322)
        You can build ground based radio telescopes or satellite antennas using this technique. I have an old Radio Electronics with an article and plans for a greater than 4 foot refraction based satellite antenna using concentric strips of plywood with the focus behind the flat surface. The advantage lies in not having to form a curved three dimensional surface. The math is relatively straightforward.

        The difference with the space based proposal is using optical wavelengths instead of radio wavelengths so the edge spacing is much smaller.
  • ok... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fyngyrz (762201) * on Friday May 02 2008, @02:20AM (#23271656) Homepage Journal

    Make a sphere with a central axis. Place the fresnel lens on the surface of the sphere. Rotate the sphere about the center (where the focal point is.) No more formation flying, etc. Since you don't need any part of the sphere but the place where the fresnel lens is, just create a radius - lens at one end, focal point at the other end. Use a track to adjust the focal point distance from the foil. Rotate the entire assembly to re-point. No formation flying. Precision alignment all the time. Slow adjustment means good fuel economy.

    It seems to me that this is a great excuse for a foil-making plant in space. Imagine a veewwwwy large foil sheet. Then think of the available resolution. This is better than a dispersed array.

    Well, one can hope. :-)

  • Problems (Score:4, Funny)

    by FearForWings (1189605) on Friday May 02 2008, @02:26AM (#23271686)
    I think it would be clear to anyone who examines it, the idea clearly has some holes in it.
    • FTFS:

      The scientists suggest that an orbital 30-meter imager could resolve planets the size of Earth within 30 light-years.

      O RLY?! I suppose they haven't considered how unbearably LONG 30 light years is. I'm certainly not prepared to wait that long. Besides, we'll all be dead in 30 light years, what with the Hopi prophecy foretelling the end of time, and all.

      While I'm here, let me get this out of the way, save us some time:
      (joke) ------------->
      (you)----> O__O

  • by Saffaya (702234) on Friday May 02 2008, @02:28AM (#23271696)
    .. when I didn't have my glasses handy and still wanted to look at something in particular.

    I would form a small hole by curling my index then look through it for visual correction to my myopea.
    • You discovered the pinhole camera, aka tiny aperture = increased depth of field. This is different -- they actually have a large imaging aperture and still keep good focus.
  • Not for amateurs... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by syousef (465911) on Friday May 02 2008, @02:29AM (#23271702) Journal
    I was thinking hey neat till I read this in the article.

    For one thing, the light comes to a focus far away from the foil sheet - with distances measured in kilometres, which means the camera and other instruments have to be mounted on a separate spacecraft. The instrument spacecraft would have to stay precisely aligned with the foil sheet, to within a millimetre or so.

    Certainly not impossible, and still exciting, but this isn't going to be a mainstream or amateur tool any time soon.

    Looks like there also may be a related patent to get past...

    http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6375326-claims.html [patentstorm.us]
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      This is also somewhat complicated by the actual performance of objects in orbit. A project I worked on had two satellites in LEO - one main sat with a laser ranger, and one passive "following" sat with a corner cube. By ranging the distance between the two, the earths gravitational field could be mapped very accurately. In other words, two satellites in the exact same orbit will vary in distance with one another constantly throughout an orbit based on the gravitational field. As the orbit precesses, the va
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        These large earth-finder telescopes are all being proposed for Lagrange points, not LEO. However, I do wonder how big the fudge factor is for being sufficiently close to the Lagrange. E.g., if these satellites are both +/- 15km with the actual point in the middle, will the shearing effects of gravity be too much for attitude correction for such a sensitive scope?

        Not an astronomer... yet.
        -l
  • So basically they're building A HUGE FRAKKIN' PINHOLE CAMERA. Frankly I find it strange that they would build a telescope that only collects 10% of the light, as this might present problems for planet finding. Not to mention that huge sheets of foil tend to crinkle and are susceptible to micro-meteoroids. But, if they could make it cheap enough, they could launch a bunch of them and do "brute force astronomy."
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      10% of the light from a 30 meter telescope is the same amount of light as a regular 10 meter telescope. Hubble is a 2.4m telescope. I think it will have plenty of light.

      Foil doesn't have to crinkle. Look at the center of a mylar balloon -- not exactly crinkly. Obviously if you want telescope-grade not-crinkly you'll have to spend a bit more, but that's not really a problem. This is also a bit more sophisticated than a pinhole camera -- those have trouble collecting much light.

    • Re:This is crazy (Score:5, Informative)

      by Genda (560240) <mariet@gDEBIANot.net minus distro> on Friday May 02 2008, @06:03AM (#23272462) Journal

      This is actually a really clever solution to a number of thorny problems. The first being, how do you get a really big telescope into space without breaking the bank??? Another being how do you get great contrast to show up faint sources?

      1. A) Not a Pinhole camera, It uses difraction caused by wave interaction through the holes of the lense.
      2. B) The lens has an aperture of 30 meters, with a surface area of over 700 Square meters. Even at 10% transmission, it would have more than 15 time the light gathering power of the Hubble, and more than 150 times the resolution.
      3. C) The best way to transport the lense would be to wrap the foil on a cylindrical spindle keeping it free of wrinkles, then having it unwound onto some kind of frame for mounting and stretching.
      4. D) It would have to be placed in some kind of protection housing to prevent damage from space debris.
      5. E) It would have to use some kind of laser/optical alignment system to get the lense and camera operating in conjunction. However this is not a big problem, long baseline interferometry in space would require much stricter positioning for constellations of satellites and such devices are already on the drawing boards.

      In short, this is a perfectly viable technology, and it poses a fascinating solution to a really challenging problem.

      Bravo!

  • by heeeraldo (766428) on Friday May 02 2008, @02:55AM (#23271846) Homepage Journal
    Canon has been using the same principle in a couple of lenses [canon.com] for some time now. The lenses themselves are pretty damn expensive but well regarded; I hope the telescope meets similar success.
  • In the first 8 years of the 21st century I have witnessed an almost feverish acceleration of astronomer attention on the discovery of "exoplanets" [exoplanets.org] - planets around stars other than our own Sun. Already some solar systems very similar to our own have been discovered and some tentative measurements of the atmospheric content of these planets is underway. I believe it is only a matter of months or years before an oxygen-rich "earth-like" planet is discovered. Prognosticator of prognosticators that I am, I'll e
    • Some serious questions would need to be directed towards the SETI program.. as it seems highly unlikely that a modern society could exist without emanating some signals that SETI should have picked up.



      Right now, SETI isn't really looking for "random" signals. It's looking for signals deliberately sent our way, with plenty of power. So it wouldn't really be surprising if they're not picking up TV signals from Alpha Centauri.

  • This isn't a pinhole camera - it's a giant diffraction grating that acts as a lens. What I can't figure out is how they're going to keep the "lens" accurate; very small bumps / wrinkles in the foil would disrupt the operation of the lens, so it'd have to be kept flat (or curved to a specific radius) constantly. That's going to be very difficult to do.

    This looks good on the drawing board but making a real-world example is going to require some very fancy engineering. Building larger scale structures in spac

  • by helioquake (841463) on Friday May 02 2008, @05:30AM (#23272404) Journal
    The article makes it sound like only a 30-meter "Fresnel" optics can allow to resolve an earth-size object within 30 light-years.

    The fact is that any conventional 30-meter telescope can resolve an earth-size object within 30 light-years (circa 6000Angstrom in wavelength). Spatial resolution can be determined by the ratio of wavelength to diameter of the optics:

        6000A / 30m ~ 2e-8 radian ~ 0.004 arcsec.

    So a 30m telescope can resolve an object in angular size of 0.004arcsec at 6000Angstrom.

    At the distance of 30 light-years, the earth-size object looks like

        6400km / 30lyr ~ 2e-8 radian ~ 0.004 arcsec.

    So that's that. This telescope doesn't give us any special resolving power per optics size. So the advantage is merely its light weight.

    Since the precise alignment of holes is required for this optics to work, I can see why this project got kicked out by ESA. It's probably too premature to attempt in deploying this kind of precision engineering in space today.
  • The focusing of diffraction gratings is heavily wavelength dependent. The article makes it sound easy to shove in an extra Fresnel lens, but it's not that easy. Maybe it'd be better to use this only as a narrow band imager using suitable filters.

    Overall, I like this idea a lot.