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Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40136799) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

> If Masnick didn't "create" this metric, which is faulty, it doesn't absolve him from using it to justify his
> claim that "the sky is rising" for music content creators.

Why should he need "absolution"? He qualifies his use of the data immediately after presenting it --- I even quoted the text of where he does that.

> This contradicts Lowry's observation, based on his wife's recording business, that music production has decreased.

Well, if you prefer to rely on someone who is basing their arguments on their wife's recording business rather than the reports of companies like Neilsen and industry groups like IFPI, I suppose we don't have to continue this discussion any longer. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40134079) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

> Not mentioning the drop in live music revenues in North America

Looks like Lowery isn't quite up to date, there: from January 2012:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2012/01/06/live-music-in-2011-revenues-up-attendance-down/

Of course, as Masnick emphasizes, "live music" is an enormously wide range of activities not all of which are covered by Neilsen SoundScan. You must forgive me for refusing to believe Lowery has reached his conclusion by gathering more data or different data than them; however, if Lowery would actually cough up the data in a way which could be reviewed, I could possibly be convinced.

Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40132597) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

> How exactly is his criticism "feeble"?

OK. I understand that you've checked all Lowery's criticisms by yourself, so we can discuss them, one by one:

Among the most outrageous obfuscations and bizarre metrics: Including gaming revenue to help disguise recorded music revenue decline

The only place I see in Masnick's report where income from video games was included in the music section was when he reports the results of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, as far as I can tell, verbatim (let me know if you found a different place during your review).

Another way of looking at the music industry is through the numbers that the IFPI (International Federation of the Phonographic Industry) publishes on what it calls "the broader music industry." In 2005, the IFPI estimated the global music industry to be worth $132 billion -- which included revenues from music in radio advertising, recorded music sales, musical instrument sales, live performance revenues and portable digital music player sales (among a few other income categories). By 2010, the IFPI estimated the market to be worth $168 billion, but it had also changed how it categorized some of the revenues and added categories such as audio home systems, music-related video game sales and music revenues from TV advertising (in addition to a few other categories).

Hmm, what have we here? Seems to me that Lowery is misrepresenting the lumping of that income to Masnick trying to disguise something else, rather than it being a lumped metric reported by a respected industry group, the IFPI. I guess Lowery knows better than all of those deadheads at IFPI who decided that "Guitar Hero"-like game income should be attributed to the "broader" music industry.

Not mentioning the drop in live music revenues in North America

OK, I cannot judge anything about this one, except that Lowery doesn't post any data backing his claim. He could be right.

creating the bizarre metric of “number of recorded music transactions” instead of using recorded music revenues

This criticism address the data Masnick reports from Neilsen Soundscan:

On the consumption side, music is also being consumed at near record-setting levels. According to Nielsen SoundScan figures, the overall sale of music (including albums, singles, digital tracks, etc.) exceeded 1.5 billion transactions in 2010. That's up from 845 million transactions in 2000. These overall sales figures seem to rise and fall a bit over the years, but they don't necessarily drop during economic recessions.

Masnick didn't "create" this metric. Those idiots at Nielsen, who obviously don't know squat compared to Lowery, did. Masnick does address various problems using the metric:

Again, there are a few caveats with the Nielsen SoundScan sales data that should be mentioned. First of all, these are transactions without regard to the price of an item, so as we'll discuss later, this does not necessarily mean that consumers are spending more when they buy music.

Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40129813) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

If you want, we can segue into an argument over the article, too. However, from my cursory perusal of it, I get the impression that it largely reflects Lowery's self-image; it starts with several slides solely about himself, rather than the topic --- in order to set himself up as an "authority". He throws around all kinds of anecdotal numbers and talks about "14 academic papers", but doesn't give us any references or actual access to his data or data collection protocol, so we cannot actually judge to what degree his adamant backing of his argument is due to confirmation bias rather than him actually being correct. Because of his Techdirt run-in, he feebly tries to discredit Masnick's report on the music industry:

Totally misleading fake studies. Like the Computer and Communications Industry Association’s ”The Sky is Rising” Report. First off this was passed around as independent research when it was actually industry lobby generated propaganda. Among the most outrageous obfuscations and bizarre metrics: Including gaming revenue to help disguise recorded music revenue decline, Not mentioning the drop in live music revenues in North America, and creating the bizarre metric of “number of recorded music transactions” instead of using recorded music revenues. Recorded music transactions are up because people buy individual tracks now instead of 1 album of 10 songs. Get it?

When he dismisses Masnick's report, his main argument in doing so is because it is sponsored by a particular group (it's rather typical that people who argue from authority use ad-hominem attacks to discredit other points of view). He continually calls it various names, like "fake", "propaganda". His actual attacks target a few specific points without quoting the paper itself, and are largely specious (if you want, we can address them in further discussion). In comparison, the paper's intro to the music industry section starts with this paragraph:

Defining the music industry is tricky -- it can be defined in several different ways and each method can leave out significant segments of the market. For instance, various music organizations and government statistics don't count (or vastly under-count) contributors to the music industry, such as self-employed artists who might work part-time or musicians working for non-profit entities like schools, churches or other cultural venues. There are also several independent music distributors that aren't counted in mainstream music industry statistics. Ultimately, music is a pervasive part of life, and the music industry is not a centralized, monolithic business. The music industry is made up of several music industries -- ranging from the major labels to piano teachers. If the book industry looked almost too vast to account for, then the music industry could seem even more daunting.

Personally, I find that so refreshing compared to Lowery: "reality is complex and hard to understand" vs. "I'm an expert and you can rely on my understanding of the music business".

Within the context of Lowery's emphasis of his own expertise, the Techdirt post is actually cogent. He complains that "he gets the digital world" while at the same time he laughably threatens "i mean if i wanted to fucking sue you i could?" --- even more pathetically, he's threatening to sue Mike Masnick, coiner of the term "Streisand effect". Riiiight.

Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40123213) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

> what's that supposed to prove? That Lowery can use non-censured language? That's it? I read the whole 5-part article

I didn't, and none of this discussion is about that article. You fail, interestingly in exactly the same way Lowery did.

This particular discussion is about whether Lowery manages to project an image of someone who deserves respect, in those particular Techdirt posts. I understand that you are free to disagree. What bothers me doesn't have to bother you, and visa versa.

> That criticism contains nothing persuasive for me and no real data.

Actually, I was curious enough to look for your 5-part article. Is it the one linked in the summary? Posted almost a month after Lowery's Techdirt escapade? I find it silly that you're dissing Masnick for not having good arguments against something which was obviously posted after Masnick's Techdirt post.

Looking at the article which impressed you so much, I don't see a lot of data in it either (it is, I admit, chock full of claims --- but that's different from data.). One statement did impress me with its honesty, though:

I like to think that I am uniquely qualified as an artist, entrepreneur and geek.

Yes, that is exactly the impression one gets from Lowery's Techdirt post. Someone who believes he is uniquely qualified, in fact, so uniquely qualified he couldn't possibly be wrong --- in fact, people should apologize for disagreeing with him.

Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40122253) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

OK, I'll bite: I repost Lowery's first reply post on that Techdirt article:

digeridiot.
David C Lowery (profile), Feb 20th, 2012 @ 10:52pm

Wow. Mike you didn't even come to the talk and then you rebut me?

what the fuck? i mean if i wanted to fucking sue you i could?

You should change the article title to

"If you're gonna rebut someones talk, you might ought have heard it"

1. whatever you took from Facebook was some ramblings from a few weeks earlier and it was not my argument that i presented at sf music tech. One of the paragraphs did share the title. But otherwise IT HAD LITTLE TO DO WITH WHAT I TALKED ABOUT.

2. The talk I gave was based on a University of Georgia bit of academic research. I teach at University of Georgia when i'm not out touring. I teach music business finance. Unlike TECHDIRT I can't make up things out of my ass and just print them.

3. you didn't even present my actual argument. It's quite narrow comparison of the percentage of gross revenue that flows to the artist under the new digital model vs the old record label model. my tentative conclusion is that less revenue

4. I have shitloads of data. nearly two decades worth. hundreds of artists. all kinds of artists. hobbyists to platinum.

5. I like most of you here expected that although the overall revenue for the recorded music business is down (-64%) I expected artists would be doing better. Disintermediation etc. direct sales to fans. long tail revenue. It turns out the data does not agree. Don't shoot the fucking messenger.

6. How the fuck can you say the argument don't make sense? you didn't even hear it.

7. for those of you who think i somehow don't understand the digital world? I have a degree in mathematics and i've been programming computers since you had to RPG on punch cards. my first job out of college was as a CPM/MPM system operator. Since the early 1990's i've been operating a successful WEB based business. It's called being in a band. Don't fucking tell me I don't understand the fucking digital paradigm. Finally if you still don't think i have digital/web credentials just google "david lowery groupon"

I expect a retraction and an apology. fuckface.

You say that you "came away with much respect for Lowerly [sic]" --- from that I understand that your respect for someone is proportional to the number of times they gratuitously insert "fuck" into their arguments, added to the number of times they insult the people with whom they are arguing? I think I am understanding how you don't respect my reasoning. LOL

Comment: Re:be careful what you wish for (Score 1) 82

> Specifically, google and facebook are almost certainly the two worst offenders out there.

I'm curious. Do you think they are the worst because of their prominent market positions (i.e., from a quantitative point of view), or do you believe they are the worst because of their bad policies (i.e., from a qualitative point of view).

I might just agree with you with respect to Google, if you mean it in a quantitative way.

Comment: Re:be careful what you wish for (Score 1) 82

I hate google as much as anybody, and do not use their search engine because of their privacy-invading policies. I also do not run their tracking crap that's all around the internet, and recommend that NO ONE use them for these reasons: they are destroying the last shred of privacy that was left on the internet.

Let me give you a clue. It is possible to both use Google services and at the same time hide information from Google. And I rather doubt it's less convenient to do that than boycotting Google (and practically every other search engine, it seems) totally. It's silly to relate to reality as if it is one big false dichotomy.

To be a bit more explicit, you merely have to continue your style of private non-Google browsing in a second browser instance (e.g., in a VM) which also runs NoScript (to block all the Google+ Javascript associated with the buttons).

As to your somehow thinking that Google, and only Google, are evil demons destroying the privacy of the net, I am sorry to inform you that every commercial entity with which you interact, with or without a net presence, tries to maintain a database of information on you. Your use of the net must be very limited if you are trying as hard to prevent them from doing that as you are trying to prevent Google. Think: no using Microsoft/Bing, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, Barnes & Noble, etc.

Comment: Re:Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 1) 567

by Mathinker (#40107215) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

>> in either your business skills, your public relation skills, or both.

Lowery's posts are a total fail from a public relations point of view, which is why my post is modded to 5, contains data, and was composed in "snarky mode".

While burning up his PR karma, he unfortunately discredits his own arguments about the music business --- which is wrong, being an ad-hominem. However, your post, which dismisses Masnick's arguments with no analysis is equally flawed ("argument from authority of an AC on Slashdot"? Give me a break.).

Your post is a puerile attempt to save Lowery's image. I hope you're doing out of the goodness of your heart; I'd hate to think he's wasting money paying you.

Comment: Dear Mr. Lowery (Score 5, Interesting) 567

by Mathinker (#40103179) Attached to: New Music Boss, Worse Than Old Music Boss

Dear Mr. Lowery,

The Internet is so, so sorry if you are having a harder time because it exists. However, in general, it seems that it is easier for many other musicians because it exists.

Details can be found at the Techdirt article where you prove, in your reply posts, that you're an idiot, in either your business skills, your public relation skills, or both.

Oh so sincerely,
The Internet

"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order" -- The Doctor, "Doctor Who"

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