Zune — $249.99 On Nov. 14

Cubricon writes, "As expected, Microsoft has dropped their price on the Zune in response to Apple's recent iPod updates. Ars Technica has an article that discusses the Zune's use of Microsoft's prepaid 'points' system for songs. Will the masses notice the difference between an iPod and a Zune? Will they want the FM and wireless capabilities?" The Zune lists for $0.99 more than the comparable iPod and songs from the Zune Marketplace will cost just under $0.99.

Not buying it.

Wireless. Same amount of space as an iPod. Lame.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257 [slashdot.org]

Re:MOD PARENT UP

I quite like this comment [slashdot.org] from that story:

Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...

Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...

Raise your hand if you have both ...

Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...

There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

Talk about hindsight being 20/20...

Re:MOD PARENT UP

they sold over a million units before adding windows, so yes it was a success under those conditions.

For the young slashdot whipper snappers

A bit of Slashdot antiquity [slashdot.org].

The Fatal Flaw, that will kill zune

Zune is not Family freindly. For the single person it's okay, as long as they are the normal sort who is not religious about DRM issues or "ownership" of their music. The DRM seems to have only modest and tolerable consequences for single people.

For famliles it may be unattractive.

As I understand the Zune sales model, if you buy a song it's locked to play only on your computer and your Zune is also locked to your computer.

The problem is then families that have multiple computers or multiple zunes. If both sis and bro and mom like the latest snoop-dog tune, they can't buy it once and share it o all their computer's and Zunes. They have to buy one copy per machine/zune. That's freakin' nuts.

Or did I get it wrong. Sorry if I did, since Im itunes for the long haul and don't really care about Zune.

FM...

Everyone should have a battery powered radio receiver. Hurricanes, Earthquakes, Flooding, Volcanos (like Mt. St. Helens) happen, and you need a way to receive emergency information about which way to run.

Busses are on the way

Everyone should have a battery powered radio receiver. Hurricanes...

Yeah, hearing rhetoric, empty promises and outright lies live over the air while you're up to you ears in alligators would be a heckuva plus.

Re:FM...

Everyone should have a battery powered radio receiver.

Yes, but FM? I think AM will be more useful.

Re:FM...

Fuck running, i'm stealing a Hummer H1 with a radio and killing 2 birds with one stone (and anyone who won't move out of my way)!

What happens 6 miles down the road after you run out of fuel? :)

Re:FM...

"What happens 6 miles down the road after you run out of fuel?"

That's still 5.5 more miles than I would have gotten running!

Re:FM...

Seriously, what's the deal with people hating FM radio? I spend my whole day at work listening to BBC Radio 1. Sure, their daytime playlist is quite limited, but they do play some new music in the evenings, but I mainly tune in for the DJs. If anyone in the US has Sirius(?), tune into Radio 1 and give Chris Moyles a listen.

Re:FM...

Seriously, what's the deal with people hating FM radio? I spend my whole day at work listening to BBC Radio 1. Sure, their daytime playlist is quite limited, but they do play some new music in the evenings, but I mainly tune in for the DJs.

You're obviously not an American, and haven't listened to FM radio much in America if you've ever visited here.

Let me educate you a little. Here in America, where we talk a lot about businesses and competition and capitalism, we're actually not much different from the Soviets: all the FM radio stations in the country, except for those playing NPR (National Public Radio--like an extremely watered-down BBC), are owned by a single company: ClearChannel. This company decides what we all listen to, and plays the exact same thing on every station across the country. So they'll have a couple of country music stations, a rock station, etc., in each metro area, but it's playing the same crap that every other station of that format is playing, whether you're in Florida or California or North Dakota. Even worse, each station only plays about 10 songs, in a continuous loop; the only time you'll hear something new is when ClearChannel is working with the RIAA to brainwash us into buying some new album, and they have to update their loop with the one song they'll ever play on that album. Lastly, while a lot of your media is controlled by the BBC, it seems to actually care about producing quality media, or at least trying to. BBC News is world-renowned for being one of the best news outlets (you'll never find that reputation among any American news sources). Here, there's no such pursuit of quality at all. You can forget about any good DJs on the radio, since the DJs don't decide which songs to play anyway (that's decided by the upper management).

As for Sirius and XM, I'm surprised ClearChannel hasn't lobbied our politicians to make that stuff illegal.

Radios in general

People think I'm a bit odd... I have a TON of gadgets, but still don't own an iPod or "popular" MP3 player. The reason: Nobody makes one with both an AM/FM tuner in it. So I still use my Panasonic CD player with MP3 capabilities... as it has an AM/FM tuner in it. I enjoy listening to live baseball (and occasionally other sports) games on AM radio, which is why it's of key importance to me. I realize radio is a secondary feature for a music player, but my stance is simple:

If I'm paying several hundred dollars for a portable player, it should damn well have an FM *AND* AM tuner in it.

Simple as that. Until then, the CD/MP3 player that cost me $50 3 years ago will do just fine.

Re:FM...

Actually, the FM radio band is abslutely the worst choice for an emergency broadcast. The range of FM is short and the radio waves don't bounce off the ionosphere. If there's some kind of a catastrophic event, there's a very good chance that local FM transmitter will be affected by it as well. SW and AM are much better since their waves bounce off the ionosphere and are long range.

Also, relying on Zune for emergency signal is silly (and I'm being nice) since it has a short battery life and no AM/SW bands. Also, what will you listen to after 5hrs have passed?!

If you want an emergency radio, get one with three bands and get one that has a hand crank.

Sweet

As an Apple user, I'm all for this. A REAL competitor in the mp3 player market means that Apple has to "innovate" something cooler in order to stay on the top. I'd like to see a wide-screen iPod by the end of the year. :D

Re:Sweet

As an Apple user, I'm all for this. A REAL competitor in the mp3 player market means that Apple has to "innovate" something cooler in order to stay on the top. I'd like to see a wide-screen iPod by the end of the year. :D

Yeah, that's what we'll likely see, pointless innovation for the sake of innovation, the next gen will probably have

• a color LED projector so we can watch videos on a sheet of paper, wall, etc.
• a Swiss Army knife built in
• a turnip twaddler built in
• a keyboard
• automated blood sugar/caffeine/cholesterol/heart-rate monitor
• a weight of 2 lbs, including (non-exploding) battery
• a wasabi dispenser

Actaully... naw... well, maybe...

Zune vs Wii

So at around the same time for $250 you can either get an also-ran music player or a brand-new game console. Zounds to me like they are going to lose a lot of tech geek sales.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking

If I was MS I would drop the price of this thing to $199. I mean, this thing is gonna bomb anyway, minus well lower the price and hope to make more money on the music-selling end of things.

Re:Monday Morning Quarterbacking

I mean, this thing is gonna bomb anyway, minus well lower the price and hope to make more money on the music-selling end of things.

Isn't that supposed to be "might as well"? Or is there some kind of joke that I'm missing?

Re:Monday Morning Quarterbacking

Hey, Loudmusic, just for old times sake, can you make a prediction on the sales of the zune? [slashdot.org]

Re:Monday Morning Quarterbacking

It's a mute point anyways, since what he said is, for all intensive purposes, correct. It's a doggy dog world out there, so they might as well keep the price low.

Next MP3...

Next MP3 player won't be one of these, I'll get something cheep, like that little jobby that works with a USB drive, which i can then plug into the new generation of car stereos with USB. Hoo Hah!

MTP vs UMS

> You can mount an iRiver, an iPod, (and I gotta believe a Zune) as a UMS device, working just fine on the "next generation of car stereos with USB."

Read between the lines of this MS developer's [anythingbutipod.com] post, in which he says "PlaysForSure does not require devices to support only MTP - UMS can be implemented too, but under certain conditions that prevent newbies from transferring content via MTP, switching to UMS and then calling tech support because they can't find/play their content"...

Now re-read that sentence while pondering the notion that Zune will not support PlaysForSure.

This is a Microsoft product. More so than Apple products, less so than Sony products, it's still all about vendor lock-in.

I speculate that Zune will be an MTP (Media Transfer Protocol [wikipedia.org])-only device. UMS (USB Mass Storage [wikipedia.org]) cannot be supported, because only by eliminating UMS can Microsoft mandate the use of WMP10/11 and the accompanying XP/Vista DRM platform.

Great advantage

Song downloads just under 99 cents? Would that make them 98 cents?

I predict a flood of switchers.

Re:Walmart.com offers its songs for 88 cents

Which is exactly why MS is screwing all of it's business partners by abandoning play for sure. If Zune worked with play for sure, there would be no reason for an MS music store, and without an MS music store, the whole MS portal strategy is doomed to failure.

Look at it this way. Even though MS controls the desktop, controls IE, and forces everyone to MSN, MSN is still not a real player in any market. They cannot win the the market on quality, or even controlling the software. So the hope is to take another page out of the Apple book and try make inroads into the music business by controlling the software and hardware, and locking consumers into the format.

I have a feeling that the lack of play for sure support is going to be a detriment, as those same people that buy the player form wal mart are going to want to download songs from wal mart, or whoever. Also, at some point MS is going to want to raise the subscription fee, and at that point owning a Zune will be more expensive than owning another device. Recall that one thing that makes a non-iPod device desirable is the play for sure market is somewhat completive, while the iTunes and alleged MS Music market is not.

As always MS makes the entire thing way too complex, and so will only appeal to those that want the MS name. Otherwise a Zen will be a better choice, unless MS is going to start giving music away, say a free three month subscription with purchase.

Not perfect enough yet...

I won't buy an iPod because I really want the FM radio built in.
I won't buy a Zune because of the way it looks.

Whichever one improves first will most likely be the one I'll get.

What about the shitty brown color scheme ?

Most people are not "artist" enough to appreciate that "innovative" brown...

Re:What about the shitty brown color scheme ?

It is the "UPS" version

"U2" was already taken

Fuzzy Math?

Since when does "just under" mean "equals"?

The Zune's companion music download service will charge users 99 cents per song, the same as Apple's iTunes Store pricing model.

Re:Fuzzy Math?

Because songs aren't bought using money. You use money to buy Microsoft Points, or something with a similarly retarded name, and then use those points to buy songs. The current price is a buck for 80 points, and songs cost 79 points. So each point costs 1.25 cents, and 79 points works out to 98.75 cents. Due to rounding, if you buy 1 or 2 songs you pay the same as in ITMS, and past that you pay a very small amount less (if you buy 100 songs you save a whole quarter).

That reminds me. . .

Same price as iPod. Wireless. Lame.

the microsoft way

songs from the Zune Marketplace will cost just under $0.99.

At first...

Lots of work to do...

When people are asked what they want, they do not say an Mp3 player. They say, "I want an iPod." That alone puts the Zune at a large disadvantage, not to mention all the other things. iPods are trendy, well-known, and easy to see(Look at me!) - so until people start looking at what kind of Mp3 player to buy instead of what version of iPod to buy, the Zune will struggle to find its place in the market, just like everyone else.

Planned obsolescence

How about one of the manufacturers come out with a user replacable battery. This was a major complaint for the first Ipods, and hasn't been fixed yet. A bigger screen means shorter playtime between charges. That's one feature that would make me choose one over the other. Besides that, they're all comparable.

Re:Planned obsolescence

While that may appeal to you, a lot of other people appreciate the quality "feel" of an ipod, part of which is no seams or panels. The first time you hold an ipod, it just feels like a quality piece of hardware and that impression is part of what has made it a success. There is no big label on the back that peels off, no panels that get worn out and loose, and it just flat out screams quality. Us tech geeks talk about various features we want and how itunes kinda sucks, but most people couldn't care less.

DOA

This isn't a day late and a dollar short, it's at least three years too late and $100 short.

"Hey, let's offer a player two months from now at the same price as Apple is already selling the iPod at today. Also, let's make sure that our new, unproven propriatary music DRM is completely incompatible with our previous propritary music DRM! That way we get to drive away consumers fearful of unknown technology and piss off our existing music partners to boot!"

Dead on Arrival.

Crow T. Trollbot

ho hum

I can't believe what a turkey the Zune is. Here are 2 reasons right off the bat:

- It only lets you share one song at a time via wi-fi and then only with another Zune player. What's more, even if the song is not DRM'd, it infects that song with DRM so that the recipient can only play the song a maximum of 3 times or for a maximum of 3 days, whichever comes first. So much for Microsoft's wonderful social networking scheme.

- It can't play songs you've already downloaded encoded with Microsoft's own Play For Sure DRM. Dumb. Just plain dumb.

And if including an FM tuner didn't get people to flock to Creative's Zen video pod, why should it be such a hot feature in the Zune? And who the frack thought brown was cool?

Zune is like...

the fake Air Jordans from K-Mart back in the day. And when Air Jordans were out of style, K-Mart kept on trying to sell them. You can probably still buy them.

iPod haters were already saying that the market was saturated with iPods and Apple's time was over...so how is Zune going to fare any better? You can't have it both ways. Zune is simply not a compelling product...especially when the iPod is still "hip".

Whether intentional or not, I think it was BRILLIANT that Apple did not release the true video iPod at this last event. The fact that it wasn't released will have many holding off on buying a Zune. Especially with the mystery surrounding the iTV and how the forthcoming iPod will interact with it. If the Zune was really that great, they wouldn't have had to adjust the price. This clearly demonstrates Apple's influence in the marketplace...even over MS.

Zune for $249.99?

Hang on,

the Zune is $249.99. The iPod is $249.00, with $0.99 left over to buy a song with.

Re:Zune for $249.99?

Hang on,

the Zune is $249.99. The iPod is $249.00, with $0.99 left over to buy a song with.

Ahh, but you'll make than up after you buy your 397th song from the Zune Store.

249.99+397*0.9875=642.0275 (Zune)
249.00+397*0.9900=642.0300

What are we, retarded?

but in the US a point is currently 1.25 cents

Um, yeah. I'm not buying into some funky dirka-dirka currency that can fluctuate at the company's sheer will.

Article is wrong

From TFA (playmag.com):
But there are a few key differences [from the iPod]: Microsoft plans to use the same transaction system as Xbox Live, its video game console's online service, which will allow consumers to pay for music using prepaid cards they can buy in retail stores -- saving some the hassle of needing to use a credit card.

I can walk into Walmart and buy a prepaid iTunes card with cash. The only I ever "bought" from iTunes was with a code from Pepsi. So please playmag.com, tell me how iTunes requires a credit card again? iTunes already has an allowance system too.

Can't wait for this to be verbed

Just wait until some hapless teenager shares a song with his friend only to find out a couple days later he can't move it off his player. "Dude, I just got Zuned!"

The only chance this has . . .

Is if MS somehow finds a way to credit user for all the songs they bought on iTMS.

1st gen Zune or 5th gen iPod

Smart consumers always stay away from a 1st generation product. I would gladly give-up some features for peace of mind. The more the cost of the equipment is, the more you want to stay with a proven vendor.

It's possible for any generation to be plagued with mistakes, so it's best not to be the early adopter.

A couple of points

At a time like this the marketplace has already reached saturation. Their target market for the Zune has got to be around %50-%80 of people who already own an iPod. I couldn't imagine these people upgrading to Zune, which gives wireless and FM capabilities for $250. They are basically buying a second iPod and the only increase in value are trivial features that less than %10 of the owners of an iPod would want. I'm also guessing that that same %10 either loves Apple, hates Microsoft, or a fuzzy combination of the two.

Confused

I'm very confused about the choice of brown for a color. Does the shiney brown mean that Microsoft has pioneered a break-through for turd polish?

To get me to buy one you'd have to ...

... remove the DRM. That's it. I'd buy one in an instant.
I like the Zune, from what I've read and the pictures I've seen it seems pretty cool! Especially the wireless sharing of files - that's really cool. However, the DRM that the wireless transfers forces on your media is unacceptable.
Any takers on how long it will take to crack the DRM?
Or
Any takers on how long it will take to get Linux running - doing the same things - minus the DRM?

Much Worse than PlaysforSure

I have a Sandisk player with Yahoo Unlimited and an FM transmitter. Totally content to have everything and owe nothing for $10 a month.

This is worse because if I actually wanted to BUY a song (own forever, burn to CD, etc.) then it only costs $0.79.

Microsoft points == Itchy and Scratchy Money

Ticket booth woman: Would you like to buy some Itchy and Scratchy Money?
Homer: What's that?
Woman: Well it's money that's made just for the park. It works just like regular money, but it's, er ... 'fun.'
Bart: Do it, Dad.
Homer: Well, OK, if it's fun...let's see, uh...I'll take $1,100 worth.
Homer walks in to see signs advertising that Itchy & Scratchy money is non-negotiable at various booths (e.g., "No I&S money," "We don't take Itchy and Scratchy money," etc).
Homer: "Aw!"

Who want s a dollar?

I won't pay 99 for a DRM-riddled piece of music... I will pay a full dollar for a DRM-free piece of music though.

Fuck them all.

Dad just got a radio with a slot for a USB drive loaded with MP3s. Bye, DVD-A. Bye everything for that matter, because unlike my portable MP3/CD player, this one doesn't skip/slow the music down on VBR MP3 files, and I have to carry significantly less weight. GRR, my new player is only six months old damnit. Thank god I bought it on sale with CompUSA closing 15 stores, and opening 20 more, for 10 bucks.

Ripoff!

Why the hell would I want a Zune when I could get an iPod AND a whole song for the same price M$ is charging? Ripoff!

Unencrypted AAC is good

It means all those songs I ripped with iTunes will play on the Zune. There is no way in hell that I'd buy one if I thought I had to convert to or use their crappy format. This way I can keep on using iTunes for ripping and Zune for playing. The screen also looks far more useful for video content than the iPods. Other than that, the only thing which might put me off a Zune is if I have to use special Windows-only software in order to access or copy content to the device.

I don't get it

I have one of these [amazon.com], of course the 512MB version [amazon.com] is now the same price, which wasn't the case when I bought mine a year or so ago.

Still, it does the job, just with more limited storage. It even has an FM tuner that works pretty well.

I just don't understand the need to have several gigs of music copied to yet another device. I keep my music on my harddrive, and on semi-permanant backup CDs (soon to be DVDs), as I do most of my music enjoying from my computer. To me it seems pointless to have a complete copy of that to another device.

The convienence of not having to go to my computer every once in a while to change my music is not worth $200+ to me, sorry. I just don't see the need to always have access to all of my music 100% of the time. If the music gets old while I'm away from my computer, I just turn it off, and *gasp* think my own thoughts and reflect on myself. I really think that music has become a bit too pervasive in many peoples' lives in today's society. I mean, if noone has any time to hear themselves think over the sound of constant music, then how will people ever reflect on themselves and grow emotionally?

But, then again, everyone else has an iPod or some such, so I guess they must have good reason for shelling out such money. I can't think of any that would make me pay so much though...

Maybe I've missed something though. Thoughts?

The Second Suitcase Nuke

Can't ANYONE see the significance here? You can exchange songs *wirelessly* with this player. Various demagogues have been predicting that when there is a device that allows you to swap songs with trusted friends in a decentralized manner, copyright will become irrelevant. If someone hacks into the device, installs Linux, and reverse engineers the wireless transfer, (a tall order, mind you), anyone will be able to fileshare. Today, you have to know a thing or two about the Internet and Bittorrent and you risk being caught. How will the RIAA prosecute kids running around with modded Zunes? The only barrier to this happening was the production of hardware, and if the Zune actually reaches critical mass, the hardware will be ubiquitous. Mind you, the software is a hard problem, but if that happens, it will be the end of copyright as we know it.

What about xbox360?

While it is widely reported that the zune won't work with microsoft's own "Plays For Sure" I haven't heard anything about if it will work with the 360. I don't own a 360, but I'm curious because when the 360 came out they made a big deal about how you could plug an ipod into it and play the songs on it. It would be pretty interesting if they didn't bother giving their own player the same capability.

Grumpy old men..

In my day, we didn't have any fancy wi-fi, and we LIKED IT!!! seriously, i know you guys hate microsoft, but this looks like a nice player. i purchased a zen micro 2 years ago, in part because it had an FM tuner. its on the fritz and i will seriously consider buying this. why? wireless transfer pc to mp3 player. that is worth money to me. DRM is a non-issue to me. i'm not sharing any music, don't know care what kind of player anybody around me has. also, don't underestimate the market for devices like this. many people are on their 3rd iPod or more. people like toys, they like to upgrade. this is NOT a saturated market by any means.

Apple's monopoly vs Micorsoft's

Here's an interesting blurb http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2091 [appleinsider.com] I unfortunately can't find a better source for the quote of interest:

"We had to look at what was in the market and offer a competitive price," said Scott Erickson, Microsoft's senior director of product marketing for Zune. "We're not going to be profitable this holiday but the Zune project is a multiyear strategy."

Apple might have a monopoly on MP3 players but they are not (at least they haven't been convicted of) leveraging that monopoly to muscle out their competition. On the other hand Microsoft is a convicted abuser of their monopoly (sure they weren't punished, but the guilty verdict was not overturned on appeal). Here they are using the cash generated from their monopoly to undercut their competition. Once they muscle out Apple then they will be able to jack prices and screw the consumer. This is not competition to the iPod this is predatory tactics.

just money?

So if the /. article is a proper summary of the MS advertising, then they're competing on what - price? They're a few cents cheaper and that's it?

Sorry, I didn't buy my Mac because it was cheaper than a PC, and I don't think many iPod users had price as their primary factor, either.

Maybe once they start including a "free" Zune with every new computer sold - you know, the same way that MS Windos is "free" on all OEM machines - that might work.

My Zunish Sony Ericsson K800i

I can transfer music wirelessly vie BlueTooth (albeit at 40kBps). I can store almost 1 GB of music, which is not a lot, but adequate. I can download podc... eh.. netcasts via 3G internet on the go. I am sure I can buy music wirelessly too (some mobile shops exist in Norway), but I don't like DRM:) The music automatically fades out when I receive a call. I can listen to FM radio with RDS (station names). I can share music without DRM using BlueTooth, or infrared. It has an alarm clock. I can't believe it's Sony. It's the future!

MS DRM

Microsoft DRM is currently causing Sky in the UK to not honour their contracts with their broadband users. And MS want me to trust me to use them as a music supplier?

Overpriced

Seriously. For the same price I can get an iPod *and* a song on iTunes to play on it. It doesn't even have Apple's innovative controller.

What's up with the pictures at amazon?

Strange... Check out the pictures at the product description at the amazon page for Zune [amazon.com]... The colors on this one [amazon.com] (supposedly the white version) look quite different from the Zune in the middle of this one! [amazon.com] What's up?

If it's brown, flush it down.

The Zune comes in brown...

OGG

er...dumb question.
does it play ogg ?

It Must Have An OS, No?

Ok, maybe I'm jaded, but this Zune device is going to have a Microsoft-based OS running this thing, right?

Anyone here ever have a Microsoft OS freeze on them? I would wager that this device blue-screens or its equivalent more often than any iPod locks up.

I have no data backing my claim, just each manufacturer's reputation.

I would love wireless

The problem is that the Zune isn't providing wireless, it's providing a Microsoft-restricted DRM'ed version of wireless on a tightly controlled platform. And that, I don't have any use for.

Re:Questions

I wonder if it's possible to install Rockbox [rockbox.org] on it.

Re:Vorbis?

Yeah, right. Microsoft willingly supporting an open-source standard? I don't think so. They only time they support open standards is when they're forced to by their customers (HTML, etc.). Not many people care about Ogg Vorbis like we do; not enough to get MS to support it.