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China Network

Germany Planning To Ban Huawei, ZTE From Parts of 5G Networks (reuters.com) 44

Posted by BeauHD from the what-to-expect dept.
Germany's government is planning on forbidding telecoms operators from using certain components from Chinese companies Huawei and ZTE in their 5G networks, German paper Zeit Online reported on Monday. Reuters reports: The ban could include components already built into the networks, requiring operators to remove and replace them, Zeit Online wrote, citing government sources. The government, which is now in the midst of a broader re-evaluation of its relationship with top trade partner China, did not immediately reply to a request for comment. A source, however, confirmed the report to Reuters.

Critics of Huawei and ZTE say that their close links to China's security services mean that embedding them in the ubiquitous mobile networks of the future could give Chinese spies and even saboteurs access to swathes of essential infrastructure. Huawei, ZTE and the Chinese government reject these claims, saying that they are motivated by a protectionist desire to support non-Chinese rivals.

Zeit Online said the government's cybersecurity agency and interior ministry had for months been checking if there were components in the growing 5G networks that could put German security at risk. The survey had not officially been ended, but the result was already clear, the paper said, citing government sources. The government would ban operators from using certain controlling elements from Huawei and ZTE in 5G networks.
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Germany Planning To Ban Huawei, ZTE From Parts of 5G Networks More

Germany Planning To Ban Huawei, ZTE From Parts of 5G Networks

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  • Real-Politik (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HetMes ( 1074585 ) on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @05:12AM (#63349523)
    In a world that aims to be governed by openness, fairness, checks and balances, this makes no sense and could even be illegal. Chine, however, does not want to be part that world. And we don't need to explain what exactly these companies do wrong. We just don't trust them, and that is enough.

    • Real Life vs. Politics. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      In a world that aims to be governed by openness, fairness, checks and balances, this makes no sense...

      Fairness? Life Isn't Fair. Then you grow up and the real world reminds you of that every fucking day.

      After a century of communist socialism and 100 million dead citizens, the FUCK makes you think "a world" is looking to be open or fair when that mentality still rules.

    • Re:Real-Politik (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:16AM (#63349671) Homepage Journal

      On the plus side, there will be a lot of high end Huawei and ZTE gear on eBay. Much of it can be repurposed by loading your own OS. I could use a WiFi 6e AP. Same with Hikvision cameras.

      The problem with trust is that while we may not trust Chinese companies, if we really care about security and aren't just doing this for political reasons, we can't trust most of the alternatives either. We know for a fact that the NSA is in all the US gear, and while Japan is friendly we can't be sure their stuff isn't compromised either. There are some European brands, but we also know for a fact that they are the target of successful hacking by GCHQ. I had to replace my SIM card some years ago because of that.

    • China does not want to ... do we? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by giampy ( 592646 ) on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @08:11AM (#63349789) Homepage

      Perhaps. But sure it looks to me like the US, despite lips services now and then, does not really want to be part of that world either.
      Most definitely it does not want to be part of that world when its businesses are outcompeted.

      Too easy to talk international rules only when it's convenient to you ...

    • Why does it sound like a bot wrote that?

  • Possible Solutions (Score:3)

    by Canberra1 ( 3475749 ) on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @05:44AM (#63349563)
    Give them the source code, let them compile it themselves. It is outrageous there is no proof whatsoever, and it sure looks like do as America says. Certain components. Ok run firewire or the like, and blackhole any unexplained packets. By comparison, we know about CISCO gear - that was in plain sight, but somehow dodged public scrutiny for decades. One really wants to know if any 'certain components' include kit that has an EAL rating.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Huawei already does provide code. Huawei even suggested to America that they license patents to US manufacturers to produce the hardware, etc., but US refused this solution.

      The article states that no backdoors were found, etc., but could be more due to worries regarding supply for replacements, etc., which probably has more to do with US sanctions, rather than something is wrong.

      • Huawei even suggested to America that they license patents to US manufacturers to produce the hardware, etc., but US refused this solution.

        The sensible solution is just to use the IP without permission, like everyone knows Huawei did to build their business. After everybody bans Huawei, this is the obvious next step. The only thing that "prevents" it is observation of the Berne convention. China became a member of the Berne union October 15, 1992, but has willfully and flagrantly violated the provisions of the convention and there's no valid reason why they should continue to enjoy its benefits while refusing to extend them to foreign nations.

    • No proof is necessary. Not to the public anyway. Just because -you- haven't been shown sensitive intelligence information doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

      Anyway, security is a giant red herring.

      The real reason we should not be buying Chinese products is that they are a slave state.

      In the US everyone is all wah wah wah about the confederate flag, history of slavery and etc yet the same people defend and promote the buying of Chinese goods. The cognitive dissonance is stunning.

      • When you boycott another large country, then yes you do need to assert proof. There is nothing sensitive about phone systems that is not already known. I assert the 'Signal' system is proof that trusted telephony can exist. Only the UK is whining about that. And sensitive is miles away from alleged national security. All countries that have satellites are hoovering up calls. Trade protectionism and import duties, and non-trade barriers - like chip fab plants is the core reason: rewarding speculation over re

        • Intelligence information would include how the information was acquired, including methods and people. That is highly sensitive information.

          No, no proof -to you- is necessary. If we have shown proof to our allies which they find convincing then that is sufficient. If they are trusting enough to take our word for it then so be it.

  • Never works. Germany is stupid to follow the US into the abyss.

    • This is a technical issue. Does the box do what the instructions say it's supposed to do? No? Throw box away, get refund, anything but leave it in place.....

      • But how do you know? Supermicro servers have been found with tiny mcus addes to the motherboard to backdoor the hardware. Now what if it only switches on during war time when it sees a cerain wakeup traffic? If spys know this is planned, its better to block that supply chain. Search supermicro backdoor chip for more, it was reported in 2021.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        So do not ever buy Cisco? They have a far worse security history than Huawei or ZTE.

    • Never works for what? What about every trade treaty? They all have protections for various domestic industries baked into them. There are some things that you can't risk being dependent upon another nation for.

  • I expect Huawei hardware to appear, repackaged or with labels removed, within hours of such a ban. Unscrupulous resellers in China have played this game before with various trade restrictions, and especially with hardware that failed QA testing rebranded as direct from the manufacturer. Double check your gear for model numbers and serial numbers when purchased. I've had a number of resellers pull this kind of nonsense when corporate bean counters demanded we use the lowest bid, even though no one had heard

    • It is not just the spy threat, it is the spare parts and upgrade reliance. Those Boeing planes in Russia slowly becoming hard to fly. China holding more cards than they already have is making some nervous and politicians catering to these fears since well votes matter. Practically if they ensured good interoperability with Huawei and ZTE with other non Chinese OEMs then a trade war would be lower risk . Not like there is a mega kill switch lurking.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Antique Geekmeister ( 740220 )

        "Carrier-grade NAT" can be a layer in front of home NAT. It really doesn't take that much knowledge or technology, unless you want to monitor the traffic or tune the network for the cheapest streaming traffic. It also hinders running web services from your home without an intervening proxy, for things like babycams. But this is actually a desirable limitation for most ISP's to discourage profuse and unnecessary _upstream_ traffic from their clients.

        NAT also provides an initial, elevated threshold for attac

  • still no evidence.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SuperDre ( 982372 ) on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:02AM (#63349641) Homepage

    The US is the only one who is suggesting that those companies have backdoors in their hardware, but they never actually provided proof. But we certainly should ban US hardware from being used as there is real proof there are backdoors in US hardware for US intelligence services. The real reason the US is trying to prevent these chinese hardware is because they are actually secure and the US has a lot of trouble hacking them so they can't spy on their own allies (as also has been proven).
    Unless they actually find real proof of backdoors, which should be easily checked, Germany should not ban these companies. But then again, Huawei also holds some important patents to 5G, so if the US is really going to start to be very agressive, Huawei would be able to pull the licenses from US manufacturers for usage of the patents.

  • Why Huawei specifically?

    I remember when Huawei was the no#2 selling phone, way ahead of the competition and dangerous near #1. I mean - I can buy that there could be spyware inside it, heck - we've known that Intels processors have had backdoors for over 10+ years but you don't see them being banned everywhere.

    Now - there's probably a bunch of you who'd go "Boo hoo, you're probably a China shill", hey - I'm Norwegian born (not that it matters, because I believe in freedom and democracy), but I think the who

    • Here's why we should not buy any Chinese products: they're a slave state.

      What more do you need to know?

  • You visit Germany and bring your own out-of-country devices, and plug them up in the hotel. Chinese digital invasion from within!

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