Delivery, Ride-Hailing Firms Fight EU Plan for Gig Workers (bloomberg.com) 34
Companies that run food delivery and ride-hailing apps are concerned that the European Union will push for gig workers to be considered employees rather than self-employed under a forthcoming proposal aimed at bolstering their labor rights. From a report: The draft European Commission proposal, seen by Bloomberg, would apply to any company that controls digital workers' performance by determining pay, controlling communication with customers, or offering future work based on previous performance -- a move that would be sure to hit companies like Uber Technologies, Deliveroo and Bolt Technology if implemented. These workers would have the "rebuttable presumption of employment," according to the draft, which would mean there is an employment arrangement no matter how the contract is worded. The EU's executive arm doesn't have the authority to mandate labor laws across the bloc and would leave it to EU countries to interpret the rules. The proposal, which is expected to made public next week, said some workers will still be considered "self-employed" but doesn't make clear which ones. Platforms that rely on gig work are pushing back against the commission's plans, which they argue risk putting food delivery workers and drivers out of work. They warn against stricter rules like those implemented by Spain, which prompted Deliveroo to pull out of the country and cost thousands of food delivery workers their jobs.
more info pls (aka more effort from msmash) (Score:2)
would be helpful to see how other non-gig 'jobs' are classified
hard to say, and I'm just inferring that there is an accurate definition of a 'gig' job... but the idea that "...determining pay, controlling communication with customers, or offering future work based on previous performance..." seems applicable to *any* type of 'pay me to do something' arrangement
put another way, are there jobs in which "...determining pay, controlling communication with customers, or offering future work based on previous pe
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Evaluation based on 20 minutes of work vs evaluation based on months of work.
Where the first evaluation isn't done by people that have any knowledge, and the second supposedly is.
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perhaps I get what you're saying... but how is that codified into laws/regulations? taking your example, it implies that 20mins is too little but that there is an amount that would make a situation either a gig or a job; so are we to pick some fairly arbitrary minumum number of time units and that's where the line is? and this has to also make sense for all jobs, situations, contexts, etc.
and to me, that's the main point... how does one put that in law form and yet not have a bunch of unintended side-eff
20mins on there clock vs maybe 2-4 hour shift that (Score:2)
20mins on there clock vs maybe 2-4 hour shift that you are really working.
They don't to pay for time of being open waiting for an call
Time of going back to your base area after an run
Time of after an call for it to be ready to make your run.
ETC.
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One giant red flag is when you're not allowed/unable to actually negotiate contract terms. If you get a boilerplate "contractor" contract that is open ended, non-negotiable, and pays per item/task/procedure, and includes no provisions for anything, then that's a gig contract.
0 permanence, 0 provisions, 0 influence.
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good points, thanks
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You are a perfect example of your sig. How do you think the "adults" organized themselves in the 19th century?
Wanna go back to that? Didn't think so. But you knew that, you're just here to play the fool today, aren't you?
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great point thought you might want to include some sort of sarcasm indicator, some folks just might not get it otherwise ;-)
and I'll use your point is to emphasize the difference between gov't intrusion (nanny state) and gov't setting up a fair playing field via regulations...
the nanny state option is having some distant 3rd party making decisions for you; and the other is setting up a framework in which each party can decide for themselves with protections against fraud and recourse for disputes
not an eas
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You're new here.
He's not being sarcastic.
These are his views.
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new maybe, but not so new that I would listen to anyone other than the author for clarifications
after a couple of re-reads, I still think it sounds sarcastic
c'mon cayenne, there's a lot riding on this, pls clarify
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Sorry. :)
No, I don't believe EVERY single job out there is one meant to make a living from.
I think there are jobs out there that are something one might do to make some side money.
I believe there are starter jobs out there, I don't believe burger flipper to be a job one uses as a career to support themselves, much less a family.
And I believe in contractor jobs. I've been a very successful IT contractor for many years. I've made a LOT of money and lived comfortably doing this.
I set
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lol, now that is funny; and Aighearach cements his greybeard status
this line "Nope, the govt. has to step in, and make those decisions for the 'adults' out there." just sounds so damn sarcastic, prolly like how I would say it ;-)
but yes, after that, now I get what you're saying
after reading your thoughtfully written followup (thx), I can't find anything to disagree with, even your phukken spelling and grammar are unassailable
well said
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Well, that just removed easily anywhere from a fourth to a third of the population. Anyone suffering from trauma, depression, malnutrition, poor diet, abuse, substance abuse or neglect will fail the "thoughtful" criteria since they legitimately aren't thinking clearly. And I won't even touch on mature, that is so subjective as to be borderline meaningless, though we know "maturity" can be subverted by addictions, psychological
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It's only been recently that that wasn't just common knowledge and common sense.
Perhaps it was a bad thing a few years back, to give everyone a participation trophy....but time to put on the big boy pants and be adults.
Mommy and Daddy aren't there to bail you out or make your decisions, and it certainly isn't for the government to replace Mommy for yo
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You're ignorant about everything.
In the US, the validity of contracts are enshrined in the Constitution. Children have Constitutional rights. And therefore, as the Court has said again and again, children can sign contracts.
You just didn't know know businesses require parents to sign a permission contract for things, you guessed wrong, and you confused your guess for being know-y about the stuffses. Look it the fuck up.
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Re:I guess they just don't think grown adults... (Score:5, Insightful)
Were the peasants of the middle ages all just stupid or what? No. They were trapped in a system where a few people captured almost all the economic output.
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If one followed your logic when crafting laws, the western world would end up with feudal lords and serfs. Only the former would be called CEOs and the latter would be "employees". YOU are the reason government has to step in.
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I've worked in IT as a contractor for years now and made a healthy living off it.
Contracting can be at the level of making a living off it, down to the level of side money.
The side money is what we're talking about.
Contracting is contracting...you just have to decide if it is worth it to you.
All I"m saying is, that there should be a choice for grown adults to make....this isn't something the govt needs to be involved in, except to enforce contracts.
Waahhh (Score:4, Insightful)
We want to employ people but not be hampered by all those worker protection laws, waahhh. My heart bleeds for them.
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I think people are tired of either people living in poverty, or the people around them living in poverty. Why would you want that? Personally I want the people around me to make a good living, so they're not desperate.
These "gig economy" jobs don't pay a whole lot. They're enough (sometimes) to get by, but as stated...why would you want the people around you to be "getting by"?
I live in an area with some poverty, and it's not good. I hate it. I hate it for myself and for the people who are in poverty.
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...I hate it for myself and for the people who are in poverty.
This is the difference between you and the OP.
You care about other people. The OP doesn't.
Worth noting this is just a clarification (Score:5, Informative)
These people are already employees. What the EU is trying to do here is provide guidance to speed up the court cases already ongoing in several countries, and spur other governments to also take this to court as well. The existing labour laws already cover this. What the EU is doing here is defining what "platform work" is so that the rulings can be easily and quickly applied consistently across the bloc under existing laws.
A contractor who can't set rates or negotiate working conditions is not a contractor. Uber has so far failed in court in most of the legal challenges of the definition of these employees on this basis.
Obligations (Score:2)
This goes both ways. Many experience *gig* workers do choose their assignments.
Just today there was an article about DoorDasher showing leaving "no tip" orders on the counter: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/n... [dailydot.com] . And that is just the tip of the iceberg.
After becoming an employee, they will be forced to work certain hours/shift, do take up jobs they would not otherwise pick, and not allowed to "multi-task" between different apps. Overall it is a net loss for many ... but of course not not all gig workers.
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I'll confess I had no idea that a Doordasher could refuse to pick up an order. I guess kind of like Uber, the worker gets to see the order and where it has to go and how much it pays, and they can either accept it or not (though I believe with Uber if you don't respond to enough rides they drop you from the service)? What happens if you order from Doordash and no one picks it up? What happens if you order and it sits for an hour before someone picks it up? Can you refuse the food or cancel the order aft
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They can also choose not to deliver at certain hours or locations. My cousin used to do these, and can optimize for best payouts.
But if you need to earn a lot, then you become less picky. Not the best way to feed a family of four+, but still better than alternatives (working at the mall, delivering pizza, unemployment).
Simple solution (Score:3)
They're employees.
Treat them like employees.
NEXT!
The EU are trying to avoid... (Score:2)
Automation will make this argument moot (Score:2)
There is a cost threshold where automation will be cheaper than people. These regulations may look good on paper but they'll just make that transition happen sooner.
it's unlicensed taxi companies, motherfucker (Score:1)
Stop legitimizing these parasitic corporate vultures by using their propaganda terms.