Robotic Telescope Installed on Antarctica Plateau 128
Reservoir Hill writes "Antarctica claims some of the best astronomical sky conditions in the world — devoid of clouds with steady air that makes for clear viewing. The very best conditions unfortunately lie deep in the interior on a high-altitude plateau called Dome A. With an elevation of up to 4,093m, it's known as the most unapproachable point in the earth's southernmost region. Now astronomers in a Chinese scientific expedition have set up an experimental observatory at Dome A after lugging their equipment across Antarctica with the help of Australia and the US. The observatory will hunt for alien planets, while also measuring the observing conditions at the site to see if it is worth trying to build bigger observatories there. The observatory is automated, pointing its telescopes on its own while astronomers monitor its progress from other locations around the world via satellite link. PLATO is powered by a gas generator, and has a 4000-litre tank of jet fuel to keep it running through the winter. The observatory will search for planets around other stars using an array of four 14.5-centimetre telescopes called the Chinese Small Telescope Array (CSTAR). Astronomers hope to return in 2009 with new instruments, including the Antarctica Schmidt Telescopes (AST-3), a trio of telescopes with 0.5-metre mirrors, which will be more sensitive to planets than CSTAR."
Lots o' jet fuel (Score:2)
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Re:Lots o' jet fuel (Score:5, Insightful)
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Still, a lot of radioactive stuff can simply be stolen from the average medical facility (years ago, here in Brazil several people were killed in a mishap with Ce 137 when an abandoned - IIRC - radio-therapy machine was found by some very dumb people). I bet those are the low hanging fruit we should worry about.
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IANAA (I Am Not An Astronomer), but I would think there would be less distortion if the optics were actually at the same temperature as the ambient air temperature.
Also, if you're doing any sort of spectroscopy, you'd want your detector to be really, really cold and that would be easier to attain i
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Re:Lots o' jet fuel (Score:5, Informative)
As for astronomy, the team running this automated experiment at Dome A did it previously at Dome C. I was on the first winterover team [gdargaud.net] in 2005 and monitoring the turbulence for astronomy was one of the main goals. Bigger telescopes are being installed as we speak in time for the start of the 4th winterover in a few days.
Dome A is 1000m higher than Dome C (4200m vs 3200m) but is even harder to reach and the temperature in winter borders on the insane: we had -78C during our winterover so I'll let you imagine at Dome A...
Really cold (Score:1)
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To put this into perspective, the fuel capacity of the Boeing 737 is between 4700 and 7800 gallons (18000 to 30000 liters), depending on the model. So compared to the 737's range, you'd burn around 4000 litres flying from, let's say, Los Angeles to Denver.
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Re:Really cold (Score:4, Informative)
Diesels engines are what make power down there, because 1) the compression stroke does provide enough heat to ignite diesel-like fuels. 2) they're more efficient.
They use jet fuels because they're compatible with icing inhibitors--and proper diesel engines don't mind.
Re: Really Wrong... (Score:1)
Kerosene (jet A) does become more viscous when cold than octane (traditional gas). I'm sure they use Kerosene because the viscosity increase is manageable, it contains more power per liter than gas, diesel engines are more efficient, it is safer to transport, and jet A is probably easier to get in the Antarctic.
I wish I had some of my ethereal mod points right now.
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Re:Lots o' jet fuel (Score:5, Insightful)
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i have family living in Alaska so i hear about the land of the midnight sun, (and no sun in winter)
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Re:Lots o' jet fuel (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, Dome A is one of the least windy places on Earth, typically just 2-3 metres per second. Dome A is the highest point in the centre of the Antarctic plateau, and this is where the katabatic winds start from. The winds accelerate as they head towards the coast, and that is where they can reach 100's of kph.
So, unfortunately, wind power was not feasible.
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Heh, maybe you could stop the wind and hold the world hostage for more funding! MUAHAHAhahahah..*coughwheeze*
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Actually, Dome A is one of the least windy places on Earth, typically just 2-3 metres per second. Dome A is the highest point in the centre of the Antarctic plateau, and this is where the katabatic winds start from. The winds accelerate as they head towards the coast, and that is where they can reach 100's of kph.
So, unfortunately, wind power was not feasible.
So then it seems like there are two choices: (i) put the wind power elsewhere and run a cable from there (inefficient and could cause lots of problems), or (ii) build the turbines to work with vertical winds instead of horizontal windows or some angle thereof as determined by the site. It's not that wind power is not feasible, just that it needs to be harnessed differently.
What about the shoggoths? (Score:2, Funny)
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Nothing worse than overhearing a conversation in the hallway " um', yeah, ok, well it looks like we're sending Michael down there to sit with PLATO, and um, you know, push the red button once a day at 8am...and yeah, we'll be wanting him to be there all winter. ok?"
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Let me just say it's fantastic to hear some real Astronomy still being done in Australia. I studied the history of Aussie Astronomy and found it quite depressing that we were once at the forefront especially in Radio astronomy, whereas now, not so much.
Also don't let the criticisms here get to you. If you're a
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Wow,
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Environmentalism is a noble and necessary cause but if you're going to make cost savings try ellminating things like Christmas lights before you decide to object to science like this on environmental grounds. We wouldn't know about environmental impact if we didn't do good science.
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Now that's cool (Score:1, Flamebait)
Something else though. With the recent flyby of an asteroid last mo
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The US are not that fond of the Geneva Convention themselves. Slashdot is based in the US.
What are you doing here?
Re:Now that's cool (Score:5, Funny)
Goofing off for the last 20 minutes or so of the day.
Re:Now that's cool-And Easy If Done With... (Score:2)
I doubt it would be that hard. All you need is a good sled team of Emperor Penguins.
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But... (Score:1, Offtopic)
14.5 centimeters? (Score:1)
Re:14.5 centimeters? (Score:5, Informative)
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Interesting that robotic was the way to go here (Score:3, Insightful)
i wonder if the same theory was applied to space travel would a mars mission be logically manned or not?
My guess is just to prove we can, rather than actual practicality, which I'm all for because it pushes out the boundaries of what we know, and sets a goal.
That said, i couldnt help thinking of the similarities of hostile environments. (without the distance issues)
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Where human missions are useful is where the variables are not known. If you are not sure what will need to be done, or if depending on your initial finding the rest of the mission will change unpredictably, you nee
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For that, I'm all in favor of some general purpose robots, followed by more fine-tuned robots
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Well, this isn't exactly a robot - not in the normal sense. (Compared to Spirit and Opportunity.) When you get down to it, PLATO is really just a fancy webcam. Scientifically very useful, but very limited in what it can do.
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with that either. All the so-called Software "Engineers" could learn a lesson from these guys in building purpose-built things that are simple and work!
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Not true at all - a device can be limited in what it can do, and still be a fairly sophisticated design.
I seriously doubt anything about PLATO is 'simple'.
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Manned missions are unbeatable for inspiring people.
We still talk and make movies about astronauts who went to the moon, but we make very few movies (I can only remember "Andromeda Strain") about space probes.
"The observatory will hunt for alien planets..." (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"The observatory will hunt for alien planets... (Score:2)
Not if we're the lost 13th colony.
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However, an extraterrestrial planet is any non-earth planet.
Re:"The observatory will hunt for alien planets... (Score:2)
Re:"The observatory will hunt for alien planets... (Score:1)
Exactly. I don't get the confusion. Why was this marked +3 insightful?
Re:"The observatory will hunt for alien planets... (Score:2)
Only if it has aliens on it.
Gas Generator (Score:3, Funny)
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They're using a gas turbine to generate electricity. A gas turbine is basically a jet engine, where the exhaust gases are collected and redirected to perform useful work (in this case, to turn a fan connected to the rotor in a generator). The gas generator is part of this assembly, and generates the huge volumes of gas needed to turn the fan.
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Jet fuel? Great - more pollution... (Score:1, Flamebait)
The last thing that one of the greatest expaneses of reasonably unpolluted places on earth, (reasonably? They can detect significant levels of lead at both poles thanks to the worldwide use of leaded fuel), is more pollution.
How about a large tank of hydrogen instead, guys?
Re:Jet fuel? Great - more pollution... (Score:5, Insightful)
The decision to use "jet fuel", specifically Antarctic grade kerosene, was made by the Australian team after much consideration of all reasonable alternatives. Environmental issues were foremost in our minds. PLATO produces a microscopic addition to the kerosene usage in Antarctica. We are using efficient diesel generators, and have over 200mm of additional insulation lining both modules of PLATO. Every 15 watts of heat we put in raises the internal temperature by 1 degree C.
We have 1kW of solar panels, which provide most of the power during summer. However, when the sun is down, and with the very low windspeeds at Dome A, the choices become limited.
We will eagerly embrace hydrogen fuel cells when they become practical. However, they are not there yet.
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You can't fool me (Score:2)
It's just a lot of turtles, as far you can see ...
Tagging beta (Score:2)
Honest officer! (Score:2)
awesome (Score:1)
Expecially Good Because (Score:2)
Alien Planets (Score:2)
Are there any other kind?
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some information on the computer control systems (Score:5, Informative)
As one of the University of New South Wales people involved, I thought slashdot might like some information on the computer systems that PLATO uses.
PLATO uses two redundant PC/104 form factor computers running Debian Etch. The computers boot from a 4GB flash disk (we tested 5 different models in the lab, and found one that worked reliably to -60C, despite only being spec'ed to -25C; all the other models worked to -40C, but had problems below that).
We use a readonly filesystem, with /home, /etc, and /var being created on boot in a ramdisk. This works really well, and it is nice to be able to turn off the power at any time without being concerned about filesystem corruption. Needless to say, with no possibility of any human being on-site for the rest of the year, we have thought very carefully about reliability.
Bulk data storage is provided by terabytes of conventional disks, with the most precious data being backed up on ~64GB of USB flash disks. Conventional disks don't handle the altitude very well, so we don't like to rely on them.
Communication is via two Iridium satellite modems, running at 2400 baud. We can push software updates by sending a set of "Short Burst Data" messages of up to 2000 bytes at a time. We can also login to PLATO using ssh, and I'm logged in as I'm typing this and running experiments.
There is a CAN (Controller Area Network) bus running throughout PLATO and linking the two modules: the Instrument Module, and the Engine Module, 45m apart. Each of 11 nodes on the bus has a small Atmel board that can turn power on/off to experiments, digital and analog I/O, etc.
More info, photos, and links to the health and status data are at http://mcba11.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/plato [unsw.edu.au]
Fantastic info - why is this not modded up? (Score:2)
Re:Fantastic info - why is this not modded up? (Score:5, Informative)
With two modems going flat out we could theoretically transfer 40MB per day. In practice the link isn't all that reliable and we would be lucky to achieve half of that. Still, it is enough to control the experiments and return reduced data to verify that everything is working. All of the health and status information fits into 12KB per day.
The bulk of the data will be physically returned by the next Chinese traverse team, this time next year.
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:2)
I'm a kiwi and I've worked with the Scott Base deployments out of Christchurch, but never made it there myself. Take care mate, and hope you make the news again soon!
Cheers.
Russ
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:1)
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:5, Informative)
The engines are Hatz 1B30, we use two different generators: four are made by eCycle, and two by Mavilor. Each puts out about 1kW at 120VDC.
To start the engines we have two banks of Ultracapacitors. These are amazing devices, 3000 Farads each, charged to 2V, with 12 in each bank arranged to give 12VDC. They can turn over the engines very quickly. We haven't had to crank an engine for more than 2 seconds yet, although we haven't dropped the engine temperatures below 0C.
We tested the system in a pressure tank at UNSW to simulate the roughly 0.5atm pressure. The engines still work well at this altitude.
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:1)
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd give you mod points for your answers but there seems to be no category for comments that are simultaneously informative, interesting and insightful. Therefore, I'll just extend thanks on behalf of all of us who will benefit from this extension of knowledge and wish you great success and excellent karma.
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The equipment is quite modest by many standards, what impresses me is what they were able to make it portable, then freakin' sled it to one of the most remote spots on the planet. What other telescope is in a spot so completely away from artificial lights?
I wonder what sort of image noise will be
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:2)
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:5, Informative)
Has your team considered puting the hard drives in a pressure vessel of some sort?
Yes, we have thought about this a lot, and have never had the time to complete the design! It is the best solution, and we should be doing it. It is much easier nowadays that IDE interfaces are going away and serial connections mean that fewer cables need to leave the pressure vessel.
If we use a USB interface, I'm a bit nervous about the reliability of Linux USB storage, or perhaps it is the controllers that interface the drive with USB. I've had many examples of filesystem corruption with external USB drives. And USB flash disks seem to have problems too. Quite often during boot a drive will give all sorts of error messages and will require power cycling to fix it. Googling for these problems show that they are common, but with no solutions that I have found.
Our particular PC/104 computer has both USB 1 and 2 interfaces, but we can only boot reliably off USB 1, and we see intermittent failures if we use both USB 1 and 2. The flakiness of USB for storage is a major frustration.
SATA wasn't an option on our computer. These are low-power embedded systems, so they tend to lag a bit with some of the newer interfaces.
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Do adapters [cooldrives.com] work?
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you expect the seeing to be significantly better at Dome A than Dome C ? Do you know if the turbulent layer is lower than the 30m of Dome C ? Is there winter weather information available since the chinese first set foot there in 2005 (I'd expect they left an AWS) ?
I hope you have improved the reliability of your equipment and that it didn't get too banged up during transportation. Anyway, good luck with this experiment. Has the traverse team turned tail already ?
Re:some information on the computer control system (Score:4, Interesting)
Hi Guillaume, good to hear from you! (Slashdotters - do yourself a favour and visit Guillaume's website and have a look at some of his amazing photos). We aren't currently running anything at Dome C. Dome A is likely to have similar seeing to Dome C above the boundary layer, but the layer is expected to be lower, possibly touching the ice. That is one of PLATO's prime goals - to measure the height of the boundary layer with a sonic radar.
The Chinese took an Australian Antarctic Division AWS to Dome A in 2005.
Yes, the reliability of our equipment continues to improve. It is now even better than the stuff we took to Dome C!
We mounted everything on shock absorbers to survive the 1200 km sled trip. There was no damage.
The traverse team should arrive back in Zhongshan station today.
Uh-Oh (Score:2)
How PLATO got to Dome A (Score:5, Informative)
For your interest, here is some information on how PLATO got to Dome A.
The PLATO modules were built at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. Instruments were provided by our collaborators at a number of universities in China, the US, and the UK.
In late November 2007 PLATO was trucked 3912 km to Perth, where it joined a Chinese icebreaker for a two week trip to Zhongshan station on the edge of Antarctica. A helicopter then lifted the modules off the ship and about 100km inland where they joined a traverse for the ~1200 km journey to Dome A.
The traverse was an amazing feat. 17 people, 5 tractors. PLATO itself weighted about 10 tonnes. The traverse moves at speeds of 5-10 km per hour each day for 10 hours, and then rested for 14 hours. After three weeks of this, they arrive at Dome A. I am told that the undulating motion of the tractors over the ice can give you "sled sickness", an unpleasant variety of seasickness.
The team spent 10 days at Dome A, and did a fantastic job of installing the experiments and getting everything working. The temperatures were around -30C, which isn't much of an issue at low wind speeds. The altitude (4090m) is more of a problem, as it makes physical work exhausting, and there are difficulties with sleeping, mental acuity, etc.
Much more information, and a diary of the trip by the Chinese team members, is at http://mcba11.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/plato [unsw.edu.au].
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(Admittedly, we don't get to -30C. -10C is unusually cold for us.)
ineludible Lovecraft joke (Score:2)
Thank you!
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