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Quantum Leaps in RPGs 107

Gamasutra has up an article, giving out 'awards' to titles that made a genre what it is. Today, they have memorable and impactful role-playing games; a top five with five honorable mentions. They're all very worthy titles, but I'm not sure about their placement on the list. None of the Ultima games make the top 5? Really? From the article: "Ultima V - The Ultima series allowed the player a level of freedom found only in a few games today. Through the origins of the series, the game had fits and starts where some ideas worked and others did not. By V, however, the central core of the game was completely worked out and many games today are 3D versions of this ground breaking title: Elder Scrolls comes to mind. Though other games at the time were similar, Bard's Tale for example, they did not have the scope of story and adventure, nor did they encompass so many technologies of the time. -James Edwards, Microsoft"
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Quantum Leaps in RPGs

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  • I can't wait to grid with Sam so I can finally get to lvl 60 and leap into Lee Harvey Oswald!
  • And I hope the next leap... is the leap home...
  • Oh boy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 06, 2006 @06:10PM (#16342601)
    Ziggy says there's a 93% chance you have to slay thusands of random orcs then rescue the beautiful dragon from the evil princess before you can leap out of here.
  • Radiata Stories (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Not the best game of all time (though it was lots of fun), but I've never played a game that literally gave every single character in the game - even the ones that you would never ordinarily talk to - a real life. Play it and follow some people around for 24 "hours". Amazing.
  • weapons? (Score:3, Funny)

    by erikdotla ( 609033 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @06:29PM (#16342803)
    I was expecting information about a quantum leap in Rocket Propelled Grenade technology.
    • by Dorceon ( 928997 )
      A Rocket Propelled Grenade that could make Quantum Leaps would render anti-rocket technology useless. I suspect the technology would be applied to bombs and cruise missiles first. Who needs bunker busters when you can quantum tunnel into the bunker?
  • Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger are RPGs? It's more like a book with press X to continue. I like those games but I would classify them as jRPGs (which means they are not RPGs at all). And Oblivion being on this list is just atrocious, not only it is step backwards from Morrowind in many aspects but it is also unplayable at this moment because of tons of bugs. I think we should wait a year or two until Bethseda patches Oblivion so that it doesn't make me start the game fifth time because I did something in w
    • Meh.. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by JMZero ( 449047 )
      I agree to the extent that I'd put Morrowind on the "quantum leap" list before Oblivion. Oblivion feels like "pretty Morrowind" more than any kind of new thing.

      But to Oblivion's credit, I made it through the game without a single hitch or crash (that I remember). I'm not running an amazing machine, but it looked great and played smooth throughout (except a little choppy during one of the last battles). I remember having a storyline order problem or two in Morrowind - but none with Oblivion.

      I don't know w
      • by stevejs ( 898791 )
        I liked Oblivion, but for my money Morrowind was a much better game. Oblivion is more deserving of the 1 step forward 2 steps back award. Oblivion made some questionable refinements to the gameplay. The value in the series is a sense of experiencing 'my own story with my own character'. The level scaling, radar-like quest marks, and easy fast travel, robbed me of suspension of disbelief. Level scaling bakes in a degree of 'sameness' across the entire world, because everywhere you go the world reacts b
    • by crabpeople ( 720852 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @07:34PM (#16343451) Journal
      "Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger are RPGs? It's more like a book with press X to continue. I like those games but I would classify them as jRPGs (which means they are not RPGs at all)."

      Your so right! They should list real rpgs like World Of Warcraft.

      • by miscz ( 888242 )
        Your irony is not very appropriate because I despise MMO games (well, I might play a bit of role-play oriented MUDs from time to time though :)

        Story, depth and good mechanics are things that define this genre IMO. They should stick to Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Ultima type of games. There's no place for MMORPG or jRPGs there (well, maybe one of the kind, but not both FF and CT, they are way too similar).
        • Regardless if you don't like those games, they did provide a lot of influence in the field of CRPGs in general.
        • by Qzukk ( 229616 )
          Linear RPGs are still RPGs, they just tell you what role you're going to play.

          I've been thinking of how to combat the "help, I'm lost and can't find an NPC that knows what the hell I'm supposed to be doing" feeling I get from playing some of the later Wizardry games, as well as the "wtf, both of these choices suck and either way I choose she's going to die so why do I care" feeling I get from some of the linear RPGs, but nothing comes to mind other than a game that ran on rails the first time around, and wh
        • by amuro98 ( 461673 )
          Well, I can see listing both CT and FF.

          FF basically created the J-RPG genre and continues to be its flagship.

          CT was unique in that you could replay the game to get different endings - something not seen in other games of the time where you either "won" or "lost".

          Also, if by your definition, RPGs are defined by story, depth and mechanics, why eliminate J-RPGs since, by their structure, they tend to have very elaborate stories even if they sacrifice the openess and freedom you see in other games.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Cadallin ( 863437 )
            I think part of the difficulty arises from the differences between what we call RPGs in Pen&Paper, and RPGs in Computer/Video games.

            Role playing in Pen&Paper evolved from wargaming, as people developed an interest in playing specific heros (inspired directly by the works of J. R R. Tolkien) rather than armies. What are called "RPGs" on computers are an outgrowth of Adventure games, they attempted to model the experience of Pen&Paper roleplaying by adding stats and combat to interactive stor

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by amuro98 ( 461673 )
      J-RPGs are RPGs in the sense that your characters gain levels to improve their stats and can also wear/wield equipment to make them fight more effectively. The fighting systems are also based on the old paper&pencil RPGs, suitably automated of course, but it still comes down to the good old fashioned D&D style fight - "I hit the orc", "The orc swings at me - misses" type of combat.

      I agree that J-RPGs tend to be more like "stories on rails" with fixed characters, pre-set dialog, a pre-set story, hea
      • J-RPGs are RPGs in the sense that your characters gain levels to improve their stats and can also wear/wield equipment to make them fight more effectively.

        I think this is a fascinating view of roleplaying, especially since it makes Super Mario 2 a role-playing game - you could find funny mushrooms that gave your character more maximum health points. And with Warp zones, you could change your path considerably. You could even find and carry items around - only one at the time, but still.

        Shake in your b

        • by amuro98 ( 461673 )
          I think you and I both know that calling Super Mario 2 a RPG is really stretchin things, but still, point taken.

          While computer games - by definition - have to be fairly constrained, some are more constrained than others.

          If you compared Oblivion to, say, Final Fantasy 8, you'd say that Oblivion has a seemingly infinite amount of freedom. In FF8, you're handed your character - an angsty teenage boy who cares about nothing. If you were to TRULY play him that way, you'd simply leave him in his bed. Of course
    • What are you talking about?
      RPG is nothing more than a game in which you control one or more characters, with characters having stats and skills, and the success of the character's actions depend on those stats/skills (as opposed as your skill).
      Final Fantasy is completely an RPG, I haven't played Chrono Trigger so can't say about that one. The presence or not of long cutscenes doesn't have anything to do with a game being RPG or not.
      About Oblivion, I played it 2 times full with 2 completely different charac
    • Actually I would add Gothic2 to the list instead of oblivion, but given the fact that the weird control scheme and being non japanese or us really gave a bad press in the US you probably will never see the gothic series in a us based top 10 article, while the Bethestha people openly stated they had a serious look at Gothic and were so impressed that they learned a lot from them and took a lot of elements from them. Gothic is especially part two to 3d rpgs what Ultima 7 was to 2d rpgs.
  • by DoctaWatson ( 38667 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @06:35PM (#16342881)
    Why is it that every time we talk about the influence of groundbreaking games (and films too, I suppose), more often than not they're shoehorned into some sort of subjective pecking order?

    You'll never see "Top 10 Paintings of the Rennaisance", but that hasn't kept art critics and historians from debating their merits and influence through the years.

    Every game on that list, and quite a few others, deserves to be there. But why waste time quibbling about rank? When you make lists like this, people are bound to concentrate more on a game's place rather than the content of the criticism or praise. These games stand on their own as great works, or they wouldn't be there at all.

    It all reminds me of those silly GameFAQ's character battles.

    And, for my money, Daggerfall and Morrowind deserve to be on there every bit as much as Oblivion. Not to mention NetHack and Diablo.
  • For some reason the second last page has a wrong link. The 1st place really goes to Fallout [] and not Half-Life.
    • Soo the best RPG is in fact not an RPG but the best FPS... Makes sense to me. ;) Thanks though for the heads up. Fallout rightfully wins. No contest.

      You get the same error if you use the previous button. Looks like they've got a nasty scripting error.

  • by CharonX ( 522492 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @06:37PM (#16342899) Journal
    Starting with place #5 Chrono Trigger:
    It was definitly one of the most entertaining while also groundbreaking games of its time - the time-battle system, the combination of techniques for the battles, dozends of possible endings, countless sidequests and the ability to avoid battles (having to take on the 415th Generic Enemy you wipe away easily is a major turn-off). Shame with Chrono Cross though (it still was a great game, if only the story-makers had not decided to "hey let's kill off everything CT players hold dear and piss on their graves")
    For #4
    System Shock 2 and Deus Ex. Both game stand synonymous for a new Genre - true first person action role playing games - not FPSs that got added an "roleplaying" system as if as an afterthought, but both sides - action and roleplaying - made as one, from one yarn. The multiple solution & multiple ending ability in Deus Ex gives it a slight advantage over SS2, but I would have been happy to see either on this spot.
    For #3
    Oblivion - is it the new quantum leap or just a propagation from the old. Perhaps a bit of both. I had some qualms regarding the difficulty of the game (scaling the power of enemies according to your level is nice, but please make sure their power niveau fits the setting - a level 1 character that gets beaten up by City Guards, but that can become champion of the arena - and thus best fighter in the world - just because the arena opponents are also pitiful weak hurts both the sense of accomplishment and suspension of disbelieve), but still the direction is the right one - RPGs become even more open-ended and lifelike, and Oblivion is pointing that direction.
    #2 Planescape Torment
    What can I say. A perfect story, told in a perfect way. Be who and what you want - literally; waking up without memories gives you that freedom. Truely one of the best RPG ever made. #1 Fallout
    Words fail me. Fallout has it all (though PS:T still wins in the story department).
    • by aphxtwn ( 702841 )
      I thought Ultima Underworld was the first true first-person-perspective action RPG.
      • Um... what about Dungeon Master... and, even further back, Wizardry?
        • by aphxtwn ( 702841 )
          Those were 1st person perspective, but I think the original comment was talking about 1st person like we would see in a shooter. I recall in ultima having to aim spells at targets.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Jorelli ( 1009279 )
      Enemy scaling due to character level was bad because the enemies respawned very easily once you hit a loading screen, which are EVERYWHERE in oblivion. I played this game for a while and got a pretty strong character going simply by sidequesting. When I went back to the main quest it was actually impossible because it was scaled so poorly. None of the NPC's could survive to help me for more than a second when they were supposed to fight along side me.

      Also, Oblivion has very bad art. The graphics ar
      • by bobdylan ( 30598 )

        Since it was so easy I couldn't stop myself from sneaking into a wall by leaving the controller with a weight on it to get sneak skill while I made myself dinner, or spamming summon spells then doing an hour of rest time.

        Auto travel is bad because it makes the world small. Auto wait is bad because it makes time-based challenges......not challenging.

        You didn't have to do any one of those things. You could have just played the game without thinking about min-maxing the levelling system or using the auto trav

        • You're right. Nobody twisted my arm to auto travel. However, the locations you needed to get to were so far away that not auto travelling was so ridiculous. Half of the quests involved going to locations spread out all over the game's world rather than putting the large travel distances in between quests. Having to travel long distances was so frequently employed that NOT autotravelling would have made the game even more boring. In my opinion, travelling long distances shouldn't be over used like it w
  • FF7 ftw (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    And the ~***GRAND PRIZE***~ goes to....

    Final Fantasy 7 ::Reasons::
    1-The charactors are more recognised than anyone else... better known than even Mario, or Yoshi or any other game charactor. In Asia, they are heroes!

    2-Advent Children - How many games in general get full length movies created by their fanbase and sold by the millions internationally? not many!

    3-i have yet to see any game with such an Epic storyline and a truly end-of-the-world climactic finale

    this could go on, but seeing as how i'm still at
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Honestly I am a huge Final Fantasy fan and Final Fantasy 7 is actually my favorite out of the series, but I agree that 7 should not have been put on the list.

      This list was talking about quantum leaps in the genera, recognizing games from breaking the mold and jumping into the unknown. Final fantasy 7 did not do that. It was a very polished game, the story was detailed and with enough plot twists to keep it entertaining, it had excellent mechanics and is one of my and many other's favorite games of all time.
  • None of the winners really seem to belong on the list. The honorable mentions are probably better candidates than anything on the winners list.

    Of course EQ is really given credit that belongs to Sierra's "The Realm" (which is still kept around by loyal players to this day). EQ basically latched onto this idea and made it run in 3D. The realm did have a much more fully developed social system and economy than EQ but it was hardly a social experiment. It contains a fully developed magic and combat system, doz
    • by Shiptar ( 792005 )
      Saying EQ had PvP is a pretty big stretch. PvPers in EQ were the bastard child customers. No regard to balance, how changes in the game would affect PvP servers, and large encounters were tuned to need every race/class so to do any PvE content, you had to be a cross teamer. Rumour has it that all changed with the later Zeks, but Tallon Vallon and Rallos suffered from the problems above. It was fun, but it still couldn't compare to any MUD that had a dedicated playerbase and dev team. I also don't know
      • "Saying EQ had PvP is a pretty big stretch."

        Actually I was saying that Realm had PvP.

        "I was rather young when SIerra had it's Shadows of Yserbius online version, Realm was before that?"

        No. Shadows appears to have an earlier release date but it is only a graphical mud. Realm is not just a mud with pictures on top, it is an actual MMORPG.

        If there was something before Realm I don't know of it, and Realm continues to operate (with about 300 simultaneous players at peak) so it is definately the longest lived.
  • Those were some of the best RPGs back in the day
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Phantasy Star was a good series, but I'm wondering where Arcanum is. It took the RPG genre and turned it on its pointy ear.

      No classes - you had stats, gained skill points to invest in whatever field you wanted (both tech and magical), and your skills determined how tech or magic you were (the more tech you are, the less magic works around you and the more magic you are, the less tech works around you to the point of having a good chance of technical weapons missing you completely)

      Your tech/magic rating, ra
  • oblivion just came out and although it looks pretty it's nowhere near any of the other entries in terms of gameplay or greatness (not to mention the ridiculous level scaling and object scaling system, that changes the loot and everything depending on your level, basically destroying any sense of immersion you might have in the game world).
    • I think Oblivion definitely should get the nod because you can do virtually anything in that game...and I do mean anything. My roommate stole a horse...[snip idiotic story]
      Elder Scrolls Oblivion -- not only is it the best RPG, but also is one of the best games ever.
      Oblivion has made the biggest quantam leap ever for an RPG. There has never been such a significant advance in gaming in one game. End of story.

      Good job of aggregating hyperbolic praise of a game that represents, if anything, a step backwa
  • by mcvos ( 645701 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @07:24PM (#16343383)
    Who cares about Ultima? As long as Planescape: Torment is in a well-deserved second place, I don't care about anything else. Torment was the first and still only computer game that actually feels like a RPG. Excellent storytelling and excellent writing on top of that, but the most important thing is that you actually roleplay an interesting character, instead of just an empty set of stats and weapons who's mainly exploring other people's lives. If that's not a leap forward in CRPGs, I don't know what is.

    Still, pen & paper RPGs are better.
    • Ultima, 4 in particular, was and still is one of the only RPGs to allow you to role-play. The entire game's plot was based around how the player interacted with every NPC and encounter in the world, and the choices they made. Entirely. You could not beat the game unless you played a role that relied on verbal and moral interaction, instead of just combat and clicking through a few different dialogue trees (you could click any selection in dialogue in Planescape and still beat the game with at least one o
  • by Nachtfalke ( 160 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @07:42PM (#16343525) Homepage
    How can there be a list of RPGs, and not one page mentions Wizardry?

    If there's one thing I would like to see more of, it's Wizardry 8-style party RPGs. I don't think they even make those anymore... *sniff*
    • Also, I did not see Might and Magic.
    • by jesdynf ( 42915 )

      There's always Suikoden.

      "Hey, Bob, you know what this game really needs?"

      "What's that, Tim?"

      "Everybody in Illinois."

      "That's a great idea. You get started on the art, Jake will call the Census Bureau, and I'll work on the dopey side-quests."

    • Yeah no kidding. Wizardry is the fucking king of old school RPGs. It's probably too 'hardcore' for this crowd but Crusaders of the Dark Savant has gotta be up there in the top 5. Including Oblivion over Wizardry is just garbage. Vanilla Oblivion is actually a pretty bad game. Until you get a mod that 'fixes' all the scaling bullshit.
  • I have only heard about 3/5 of the top 5, yet I knew all of the honorable mentions. Am i just old?
  • I'm shocked, shocked to find that game not mentioned here! This is the 1981 classic that started them all. You can't look at a tactical battle menu or a party status display or even the screen layout of almost any CRPG without seeing the legacy of Wizardry. Even Dragon Warrior's trademark slimes have precedent here. Wizardry combat []
  • stands out in my mind as an RPG I played the HECK out of repeatedly.
  • by edremy ( 36408 ) on Friday October 06, 2006 @08:54PM (#16344033) Journal
    Fallout and Planetscape Torment absolutely deserve #1 and #2, although I'd personally reverse them. They are the two best *R* *P* Gs out there- you get to play an actual character who you learn to care about, not just a bundle of stats that has to kill 945 kobolds to get the next level. You get to make real choices that determine outcomes, and you don't have to simply kill everything in your path to win. I note both of them are placed in worlds quite different than the usual Tolkein-derived Elf-and-Orc fest

    Deus Ex and Oblivion are close: it should be System Shock 2 and Morrowind instead, but I can see why they chose the ones they did

    The only significant omission IMHO is Wizardry. There are so many firsts in that game it's scary- I think most people forget how lame 99% of all Apple games were.

  • 9-2 were roleplaying games and then number one is a first person shooter?

    How does that work? I guess at least they had the decency to name Torment as the number 1 RPG.

  • Am I the only one that can't stand it when people use "quantum" to mean big when in fact it implies discrete (since it refers to indivisible things)? []

    Jeez. It makes me clench up my fist every time.

    • I think it comes from the fact that the discovery of quantum mechanics turned was a major shift from classical physics. It was a major leap forward, even though the subject of the leap was very tiny.
      • by jfeldt ( 967756 )
        Interesting take. I always figured that if someone was going to misunderstand the term, they would think of the small, due to Quantum Mechanics/Field Theory. If it was due to the large leap in physics, why not start saying large changes are not only quantum but "Superstring". "Superstring Leaps in RPGs" makes as much sense to me as "Quantum Leaps..." Having a BS and MS in Physics makes me overly sensitive, to be sure.

  • by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @12:12AM (#16345137) Journal
    If the point is about quantum leaps, the article was a bit careless.

    Planescape: Torment is awesome, but it's probably, technically, redundant to Fallout. Fallout was the first (IIRC) Black Isle-style RPG, which are notable for being RPGs in the old sense, and it's Fallout that made the quantum leap; P:T and Baldur's Gates et al "merely" polished that leap. That opens up a slot.

    Many people are mentioning System Shock 2, which I'd point out isn't that different from System Shock 1, which itself is clearly descended from Ultima Underworld, which is what should get the nod on that line. Also, interestingly, all from the same company (more or less; SS2 was developed by Looking Glass offshoot Irrational Games and Looking Glass and published by Electronic Arts [].

    Oblivion simple doesn't belong. Morrowind may. I'm striking it because I've seen many games like that before and I'm taking the "quantum leap" idea at its word. I'll replace it with Ultima 4, for introducing the idea that RPGs can be more than brutal slaughtering, something still underrated today. All main-stream Ultimas are from Origin.

    Dues Ex I can't speak to, never played it, so I'll defer to the article and leave it up there.

    And finally, while I don't know whether I'd pick Chrono Trigger per se, but surely "the first significant JRPG" deserves a mention. However, the problem here is that there really were no quantum leaps, it has been a very smooth evolution. (Final Fantasy I is half Ultima-pre-IV and half Bard's Tale, for instance, not a quantum leap.) I've never played FF7, but one may make the argument that if you're going to try to tell a cinematic, linear story (which has it's place, although I wish they had something we could all agree to call them other than RPG), it is a quantum leap to be able to have cinematics and full motion video.

    I note with interest that in all four cases where I changed something, all the relevant choices came from the same company. There's Black Isle RPGs, Origin RPGs, Looking Glass (first-person action) RPGs, and (weakest of all/most competition) Square RPGs.

    Maybe consolidation isn't the best thing for the industry after all.

    (OK, no "maybe".)
    • Entirely agree on System Shock - the sequel was competently done (although the frequent breaking of weapons drove me to distraction). Many of the later levels simply felt like a run from A-B in a half-life style (all other entrances and exits conveniently blocked by debris). The original system shock did a phenomenal job of creating a living-breathing space station, with believable areas and rooms. It felt like you'd dropped into a nightmare set on a space station, not like a specially designed obstacle co
    • Many people are mentioning System Shock 2, which I'd point out isn't that different from System Shock 1, which itself is clearly descended from Ultima Underworld, which is what should get the nod on that line

      But shouldn't that prize then go to Dungeon Master? UUW owes a lot to that Amiga/Atari classic...

  • Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @01:38AM (#16345513) Journal
    I read the beginning of the article, and didn't notice anyone saying COMPUTER RPGs.

    "Which role playing game over the entire history of the genre do you think has made the biggest 'quantum leap', and why?"

    I'm going to go with Dungeons and Dragons for $100, Chuck.
    • In dice RPGs, it starts with Basic D&D and then becomes fairly evolutionary over the next couple of versions.

      I'd say that the d6 system from the guys who did the old Star Wars game was probably one of the best "breakthroughs" or "revolutionary" in RPGs, then White Wolfs d10 World of Darkness system. Gurps would be another one, but I personally detest it.

      And then finally, the d20 version of D&D again (at the end of the list and begining) because the current system is quite an advancement and with i
      • what i think is the best thing about d20 is that if you know the system (or how dice are played out) it makes for great short hand

        Chances of a "Successful Encounter" with that "lawful good" female
        4d20 roll with +5 for each of
        1 clean clothes /body (both true)
        2 good clothes
        3 being able to hold a conversation
        4 epic wallet of cash
        must roll 30 no criticals no saving throw on response
        Now Players what are your chances?? (oh btw you can apply any wis or luck bonuses you have)
  • I've played almsot all the games listed and more, my comment is that even though I agree on games such as Chrono Trigger and FF4 been innovative and good design, since they are the first wave to include some nice interaction in the game, such class change, or time travel, dynamic turn base, with really good story line (MUSIC TOO!!!), and alright graphics for that age. But in awarding such type of game it would be equally valid to place the game Secret of Mana for SNES too. Though my second favorite is Breth
    • Doh! What happened to all the format? Anyhow, I'll use HTML next time... that was my first post, sorry for the inconvinence.

      I guess slash-dot need alot of design improvements.

      Even at the sigh-up page it's not according to standards nor obvious, with many places violating the Neilsen's Heuristics.

  • Daggerfall was a quantum leap with enormous world and huge freedom.

    Morrowind was a quantum leap with enormous highly detailed world and even more freedom.

    Oblivion was just a sequel with better graphics, some freedom added in a few places and lots of it removed in others. And role-playing elements cut more than by half, comparing to Morrowind.
  • Oblivion as third? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by soccerisgod ( 585710 ) on Saturday October 07, 2006 @04:20AM (#16346049)

    Fallout and PS:T are well-placed, but I'd have probably put at least one of the Ultimas or possibly the series as a whole on #1. While I've never been that much of an Ultima player (I played mostly 7, 8 and 9 and more recently started to play the excellent Ultima V mod for Dungeon Siege) I admire and appreciate it for being everything I want in an RPG. It's a wide, open world where you can do what you want. What you do has an actual impact on the game world - choice and consequence. You have your great dialog, too. Maybe not as excellent as PS:T, but as good as you can get with branched keyword dialog systems. Also love the fact that you have to keep track of your quests and things like that yourself in the earlier parts of the series.

    And what does Oblivion have? A shallow plot, a tiny amount of new lore, idiotic dialog, hand-holding at all times, no politics at all; not between individuals and not between factions. Nothing. Morrowind was 10x the RPG Oblivion is, and that's not even mentioning Daggerfall. Oblivion is the coffin in which TES will be buried. It may be a good action game, but it stinks as an RPG.

  • In this game you play the role of an electron. The game will feature ground breaking new features such as:
    - You never see your character, you just see an out of focus misty blob. This is to simulate Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty
    - Sometimes your character will be able to go through solid walls due to tunnel effect.
    - The scenario will look suspiciously like a madman's vision of atoms and crystaline structures
    - The caracter will spend most of it's time buzzing around the same place (atom) and will only
  • Google, please define Quantam...

    1. The smallest physically realizable unit of something.
    2. The smallest discrete amount of any quantity (plural: quanta)
    3. The smallest 'unit' of energy. A quantum of light is called a photon.

    Explain to me again why people use a word that is defined as the smallest difference to describe what they think are big changes?

    • Actually I would not have put UUW2 into the list, but instead the original UUW, first it came out earlier than Wolf 3d secondly it was the way better game, UUW to UUW2 was what System Shock was compared to System Shock2.
    • Us quantum particles get no respect since Scott Bakula made his first trip through the magical world of time.

      -- Muon #2876101789465197026590175892316895

"The Avis WIZARD decides if you get to drive a car. Your head won't touch the pillow of a Sheraton unless their computer says it's okay." -- Arthur Miller