Professor Sells Lectures Online 457
KnightMB writes "Students at NCSU have the option of purchasing the lectures of a professor online. The Professor did this as a way to help those that missed class, didn't take good notes, or from another country and have trouble understanding an English speaking Professor. The reactions on campus were mixed among the students as some saw it as a great way to keep up with things should real life interfere and others see it as something to pay for on top of the tuition cost at the university.
Each one cost $2.50 for the entire lecture. Some students feel it should be free or cost less. The professor brings up a point that doing this takes extra effort and it's only fair that they should have to pay for that extra time and effort needed to put the lectures online for sale such as editing, recording equipment, etc. No one is forced to purchase the lectures, they are only an additional option that students will have.
Quote Dr. Schrag "Your tuition buys you access to the lectures in the classroom. If you want to hear one again, you can buy it. I guess you could see the service as a safety net designed to help the students get the content when life gets in the way of their getting to class."
Even Apple would have been better (Score:2, Insightful)
If he's only getting that percentage anyway, he could have saved his students money by making it a podcast.
Re:Even Apple would have been better (Score:5, Insightful)
So... sure, make it a podcast. But keep the price at $2.50 and make all the profit himself. Students don't need any more excuse to be lazy, a good deal of them perfected the skill long ago.
O/B Spicoli (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You're kidding, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they got what they paid for already.
RTFA. It's not hosted on university servers; and how do you know he's recording it with university equipment? In any case lots of universities have the policy that academics retain IP rights on their work; others don't. I guess NCSU does.
What, you think he should be compelled to do give his work away for free? Even if he should be (which would be monstrous), it's a purely nominal profit anyway -- to cover the effort and materials, as TFA says.
RTFA before letting a knee-jerk reaction effect a regime change on your brain.
FWIW I think it's ethically a grey area when academics choose to withhold their work by not putting it in an open-access archive, or by publishing only in for-profit journals -- just as much as most people around here have mixed feelings (at best) about proprietary computer code. But this isn't the same ballpark: the grey area is still miles away. And legally there's certainly no question of there being anything fishy here, unless the university has completely corrupt policies.
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... and then he'd really be working for literally nothing. Look, maybe on Planet Hackwrench paying tuition fees gives you ownership of every idea a professor ever has and every minute of his time, 24/7, but in real life, a professor's employment by a university has some differences from slave labour.
Re:You're kidding, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, as an analogy, if you pay to see a play, you should get to see it as many times as you want since you have already paid your admission? Or maybe you think you should be provided with a recording of the performance as well?
The interpretation here is that paying tuition gives you the right to attend the lecture. Not the right to view it however you want - but to attend it at a specific time and a certain location - just like a ticket to a 7:15 movie - you don't get to use it to go to the 7:30 movie in another theatre.
Plus, he's recording all of this and hosting all of this with university equipment.
No, he isn't. He's hosting it on an indie music site. Also, even if it is university equipment he may have to pay for use, or he may have purchased his own equipment. He mentions a cost for the equipment, but not how that cost is incurred.
As for taking time and effort, I'm pretty sure a microphone and tape recorder is all it takes to record a lecture (that's how I did it in school in the "old" days). Then you plug the headphone jack into the line-in and record it to an mp3 or whatever format you want and you're done. Not much more work than ripping a CD.
If you read the article, and I can tell you didn't, you would also have found out that he does perform editing of the lecture. The extent of the editing is unknown. It could be as simple as taking out any extended pauses or it could include re-recording audio that isn't clear, or taking out ambient noise. Without purchasing one, (and attending the actual lecture), it isnt possible to know what editing is done.
I don't think he is doing anything wrong with this. Sure, he could do this out of the goodness of his own heart, but there would be students who would then blow off the lecture since they could listen to it later. Statistically, this will result in a lower grade for them, so an educator should try to minimize the number of students who skip class. A small fee seems to provide a good balance between convenience and assisting the students.
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Also, from ind-music.com:
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I've never heard students complain about a professor charging too much for a lecture. On the other hand, I have heard an expletive or two when a student saw their $400+ bill for their text books for a single semester.
I think that any professor that records his/her material shou
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But, I thought of this too; regardless of what that decision would be, having your own text as a required book for the course can easily be FAR worse than this. There are cases where it makes sense, like if there's a standard book on a topic and you're taking the class from the author. But
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Old News (Score:2)
- Greg
Re:Old News (Score:5, Funny)
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How is this Prof going to stop something
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http://ocw.mit.edu/ [mit.edu]
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/ [berkeley.edu]
Consider this: video recording of Introduction to algorithms class, notes, exams, assignments,
Free and apparentely available to everybody. Does somebody know other links to a projects that would be as good as this?
Even older news (about Rawls) (Score:3, Insightful)
Hm (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hm (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Hm--Even Older News (Score:2, Funny)
SCIENCE!!!
Why is this news? (Score:3, Interesting)
Lazy...Pure and Simple (Score:2)
Re:Lazy...Pure and Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
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Hmm... perhaps students could undercut the professor by selling their own notes. I have to tell my friend Cliff about this!
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The courses that tend to be like this are usually the smaller ones (not the 200 people in an auditorium ones). Way back when I was in school you could actually, y'know, talk to the prof if you missed a lecture or two due to illness. And they usually knew whether you were an attentive student or one who just showed up twice a week. And guess
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Re:Lazy...Pure and Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
I see someone's apparently never been to college.
What happens when a family member takes ill or dies? What happens if you get sick? Or break your leg? Or (as I did a couple months ago) suffer a spontaneous lung collapse?
If you're working, you call in sick, go on leave if necessary, go back to work when you can and no harm done.
In college, you miss a class and in some cases, you fail the course. It doesn't matter why you missed it; if you don't know the material, you have no hope of passing. You have now wasted potentially thousands of dollars, several months worth of your time and have a permanent black mark on your record, which will affect your later job prospects. All because you might have been walking down the street one day and slipped on the sidewalk.
I went to college; obviously, I know there are days when kids just don't feel like going to class. But you know what? There are days when 40-year-olds don't feel like going to work either. The difference is, most white-collar workers can call in sick, take a personal day or vacation day. (In fact, personal days and vacation days are *intended* to reward "laziness" as you put it - people need downtime.) College students officially get no unscheduled days off, for any reason. (Some professors are more relaxed than others, but my university had no such thing as "sick days". And anyway, if you miss important material, there's no hope of passing final exams.)
And just in case you're still sitting in judgment of college students' "laziness", consider the fact that many college students have classes six days a week, year round, from 8AM to 10PM, and on the off day they're doing homework. This was the way my student life was at NYU. My last 2 years, I got about 3 hours of sleep every single night, and some nights I got none. You're going to judge somebody even if they do just feel like taking a day off now and then?
These kids are ungrateful jerks for complaining over $2.50, though. I would have given my left nut for the chance to pay $2.50 for a missed lecture when I was in college. No such technology even existed back then to do so (unless the prof. wanted to spend all his off hours making analog cassette copies for his students).
Everyone seems to be missing a vital point. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Not only that, but folks tend to miss that it's not prof's ``job'' to make these things available online---profs don't get -paid- to do that. It's also not something he creates during class time (I can't imagine him creating digital class notes -during- the class).
Charging for such things doens't sound right though... I wouldn't do it.
Not really. (Score:2)
Here's the "vital point" you seem to be missing: lots of other profs give away lecture notes etc. for free. Sure, in most cases it isn't an audio recording, but depending on how visually-oriented the material is, powerpoint or whatever is probably better anyway. And sometimes, if you get lucky, the professor posts nearly verbatim transcripts [gatech.edu] of all his lectures!
And the problem is? (Score:3, Insightful)
But yes, if he is offering very clear, and clean mp3 versions of his lecture, this could be a non trivial task to make sure the audio is audible, which is what your money would be paying for. This is on top of the lecture. He is isn't required to do this.
Most other professors have written notes instead... which probably would be more useful than this.
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what next, charging me for the ink he used to print out his lecture?
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Yeah, until... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Holy crap, I just watched the Borat trailer http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/borat/ [apple.com] and I'm already talking like him!
I meant to say, "if they can't keep up, they can always watch the video."
Re:Yeah, until... (Score:5, Insightful)
A coworker is currently taking a math class. Anything drawn on the board is sent in an email to them immediately after class for no fee. He doesn't take notes either.
While this trend frees you from fantically scribbling, making mistakes, etc., it has its negatives too. Actually writing notes has been proven to help remember information better than just reading the same information. Personally, my attention drifted away from the course material more when I did not have to take notes.
So how long before they show up for free? (Score:5, Insightful)
Information does want to be free after all.
Too bad this hasn't permeated the Stats Dept (Score:2)
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They already charge for homework... (Score:2)
great idea, no really (Score:2)
1. it will probably keep some kids who don't feel like being in class out -- this will help those who do want to participate
2. it is good for studying for finals, or finding some obscure point you missed in class
3. it is good for when you just can't make it to class for whatever reason -- WAY better than copying notes off some other person in class, who probably has even worse handwriting than you do
4. ???
5. Profit!
The Old Tape Recorder (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The Old Tape Recorder (Score:5, Interesting)
You'd better stop your students from, uh, using your "intellectual property" in real life, then. That's valuable money you're losing by teaching students your knowledge.
Are your students not allowed to talk to people about what you say, as well?
You should make them license this special "intellectual property" when they go to work and use what you've taught them. I mean, it's not like there are other people teaching the same things out of the same reference material or anything.
For fuck's sake, are teachers really starting to call their lessons "intellectual property"?
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Are your students not allowed to talk to people about what you say, as well?
You should make them license this special "intellectual property" when they go to work and use what you've taught them. I mean, it's not like there are other people teaching the same things out of the same reference material or anything.
For fuck's sake, are teachers
Re:The Old Tape Recorder (Score:5, Insightful)
Only those who live in their ivory tower / have delusions of grandeur, like the GP seems to have.
Somewhere along the lines, he seems to have forgot that his salary is his compensation for dispensing his knowledge.
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I have taught.
. .
However, I always had the impression that that's what I got paid for. My students are clients.
KFG
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You'd better stop your students from, uh, using your "intellectual property" in real life, then. That's valuable money you're losing by teaching students your knowledge.
The professor's lectures, slides, etc. are just like a textbook. The knowledge taught by them is free to anyone to disseminate. The presentation of the material is copyright of the professor and cannot be used without at least acknowledgment of the source, preferably with permission. (Fair use meets basic politeness.)
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I'd be pretty upset if someone was taking my work, even work I've been paid for, and presenting it
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"Direct correlation" means that those with lower attendance *tend to* have lower grades. There are a lot of variables here, including teacher's ability, course content, and student's learning abilities. I've noticed that in my classes there is a direct correlation between whether or not you are caucasian and whether you make it to university, but you don't see us ban
Copyright is Not an Absolute Right (Score:5, Informative)
With all due respect, I disagree strongly with your comment.
You said...
and what I say in class is my intellectual property
Repeat after me: copyright is not an absolute right.
Go ahead, repeat it: copyright is not an absolute right.
There is something called Fair Use [copyright.gov]. I should know, as I rely upon it when creating my podcast, [shameless plug] Life of a Law Student [lifeofalawstudent.com]. In LoaLS I build upon my notes from the lectures I took part in at law school to create audio episodes explaining the cases and the law. I then make these episodes available, for free, to anyone who wants to listen and/or download. They are licensed as CC-Attribution and GNU FDL to enable others to build upon them freely.
Out of respect, I informed my profs and the administration what I was planning on doing before I started. Most thought it was a great idea or at least would not stand in my way. Unfortunately, I had one of my professors tell me that he only gave permission for his students to take notes for their own personal use, and so he wouldn't allow me to do LoaLS off of his class. I politely told him I wasn't seeking his permission because my Use was a Fair one and thanked him for his time.
Fair Use has four articulated prongs (although there are potentially more factors to balance).
Let's consider a student setting up a tape recorder and simply recording your lectures. (We'll set aside any Honor Code violations that explicitly give you the right to ban taping; we'll only deal with your "intellectual property" right.)
In summary, a student would likely have a legal right to record your lectures under Fair Use because three of the four prongs (and both of the important ones) would cut in their favor. If you would like make your lectures available for sale or distribution that might change the analysis. But the key thing is to disabuse yourself of this notion that your "intellectual property" is an absolute. Fair Use is explicitly codified in the Copyright Act because it is recognized that oftentimes the incu
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I have found a direct correlation between teachers who don't do everything they can to help their students learn information and bad teachers. The old excuse that they should be in class and paying attention doesn't apply to everyone for various reasons. Your job is to teach, not to hold your students' hands or teach them some sort of life lesson in paying attention to you
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What a shitty attitude for someone who claims to be a teacher to have! I'm sure as Hell glad I don't have dumbasses like you teaching me!
So, what do you teach, anyway? How to be good little digital serfs, I bet! Asshole. It's people like you that cause so many of the problems we have today...
Re:The Old Tape Recorder (Score:4, Interesting)
I understand what you're saying -- I'm a university lecturer too -- but it is a two-edged axe. On the one hand, I agree that it feels awful when someone pinches your work and doesn't even attribute it to you. On the other hand, when I write an article, I want people to read it. I don't want it to be reserved for just a privileged few who have the good fortune to be at rich universities with well-endowed libraries. I don't see a lecture as something qualitatively different.
If you'd care to try it, I find that slapping a CC licence on my lecture notes does wonders for my peace of mind. The same things go on, but suddenly it's no longer "theft": suddenly it's ethical and above board. ... and down goes the blood pressure.
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And if you are attending a university where classes can be passed without attending lectures, then you are wasting your money, your parent's money, or some sort of scholarship money.
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And if you are attending a university where classes can be passed without attending lectures, then you are wasting your money, your parent's money, or some sort of scholarship money.
A comment like that makes me doubt that you've ever been AT a university, let alone teach at one.
Newsflash: some professors are bad. Frighteningly bad. I won't argue that they're not extremely intelligent, or good at their research, or downr
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Because HR departments don't care about learning, they care about degrees. Colleges are where you go to get degrees.
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This is outrages (Score:2)
When I went to school, I could get a copy of any lectures notes just by asking the professor.
It also presents a conflict of interest. It is not in their interest to present the lecture in a clear manner.
Trouble understanding English speaking professor (Score:5, Insightful)
Great idea! A better idea would be if the non-English-speaking professors would do the same thing, so that English-speaking students have a way of understanding their lectures.
Seriously: I had to drop a class once because I couldn't understand a word the Vietnamese professor spoke.
Re:Trouble understanding English speaking professo (Score:2, Funny)
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Does the professor own his lectures? (Score:2)
My friend tried to start a business reproducing old tests for study guides. He had the ok from the professors who wrote the tests, but the school demanded such a large cut of the revenue that it wasn't worth his time.
Basically it's like a musician selling his songs on the side and not through his record label.
MIT's OpenCourseWare (Score:2, Informative)
BitTorrent link for the five downloaded lectures (Score:2)
From TFA:
If you are in his class I'm sure you already have put in your share of the $12.50 that was used to get one master copy of each of the first five lectures.
CHEAPER!! (Score:5, Interesting)
it's definitely cheaper (Score:2)
Because the $40 / hr you paid the first time... (Score:3, Insightful)
Jumps in logic? (Score:2)
Maybe things have changed since I was in college ten years ago, but it used to be that *some* of my professors gave away lecture notes, or put them online, and some did not. Some only put up problem set solutions, and some had every paper given in class away online. Some refused to put anything online, except the syllabus.
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You completely lose me on either one of those jumps.
Have you looked at the cost of tuition at most four-year universities in the U.S., lately? A professor is a paid employee of those universities. He shouldn't be creating a little side business while he's doing his job.
From the article blurb: Quote Dr. Schrag "Your tuition buys you access to the lectures in the classroom. If you want to
Sweet deal (Score:2)
it should be free to students (Score:2, Informative)
Pay for it? (Score:2, Informative)
course runs online, and half is lectures. So he offers his lectures online through the same service
that we get the online tasks through. For free. I'd never pay for something I had paid for before,
or something the government paid for me(this applies in my case). Putting it online is not a hassle
worth $1 per download. Our University allows him to do it on his personal(but university) webspace,
with unlimit
Bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm surprised he's actually allowed to do this with lectures he gives at the college. Sure, he gives the lecture, but who pays for the lecture hall, the seats, and his payroll? One could make the valid argument that he's being paid to give these lectures and no one is forcing him to record them (so it wouldn't cost him anything if he wasn't allowed to sell the tapes), so they must be free.
There are a lot of professors that record their lectures and make them freely available to help their students, this guy just seems to be trying to make a quick buck.
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The beautiful thing about capitalism is that one person can benefit from the self interested greed of another. That's why it works so well.
If he is only interested in making a quick buck then preventing him from charging will just mean that he won't do it at all.
The only reasonable alternative is to have the university pay him the $2.50
Sucks to be there (Score:2)
$2.50 is $2.50 too much, and as for the poor, pu
Who gets the fee? (Score:5, Interesting)
Therefore, the lecture is already being provided to the students as part of the contract for taking and paying for the course. The ability to download said lecture is the same content, just in a different format.
I am assuming that it is the professor who is collecting the fee, but then that raises the question of whether he is producing said downloadable lecture using university equipment (recorder, internet, web server, etc.) and on university time or not. If he is deriving income from the download, then wouldn't that be using university resources for personal use?
Also, the question of $2.50 a lecture seems steep. Maybe not for one, but a 13 week class at 3 classes a week comes out to be 39 lectures or $97.50. It doesn't take too many students before the professor makes a nice little income on the side. If the professor teaches three classes with three sections each, well, that's a nice supplement to his income each semester.
Maybe not only the university should look into the use of school property for personal gain, but maybe the IRS should look into reportable income.
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It's a contractual matter, and as such it'll probably depend on the particular copyright arrangements in place. They will likely differ for affiliate professors (who are academic freelancers and just contracted for particular classes) and tenured ones, who are basically full-time & permanent staff.
There's nothing wrong with it unless you are already being paid to provide service. If the professor were charging to students
Bastard (Score:2, Troll)
Conflict of interest (Score:3, Informative)
Well, first of all, this is a state school, and the professor is a Government employee. So state conflict of interest laws apply.
First, North Carolina State University permits faculty to own copyright in instructional materials: "NC State does not, however, claim ownership of faculty-created instructional materials or courseware merely because it requires faculty members to teach courses as part of their regular responsibilities."
However, the department has the option of taking title to such "Directed Works": "Directed works also include works created by faculty or staff in an institute, center, department, or other unit that, with approval of the Provost, has adopted rules providing that copyright in materials prepared by such faculty or staff in the course of their work with that unit vests in NC State and not in its creator. NC State holds copyright to Directed Works."
However, see Conflicts of Interest and Committment Affecting Faculty and Non-Faculty EPA Employees [northcarolina.edu]. "Activities requiring disclosure for administrative review ...
An EPA employee requiring students to purchase the
textbook or related instructional materials of the employee or
members of his or her immediate family, which produces
compensation for the employee or family member."
Provided that the professor made the proper disclosures and those disclosures are in his personnel file, he's probably OK. The university has the option of taking over this business from the individual faculty.
Policies vary with the school. The University of Michigan permits commercial note-taking services but prohibits faculty from selling notes. [umich.edu] (This resulted in a note-taking startup, Versity.com, which was acquired by CollegeClub.com, which dumped the note-taking business to focus on entertainment content.) Yale is at the other extreme; they let faculty control their content. That's what you'd expect; state schools have to be much more careful about conflict of interest issues.
I've Done the Opposite (Score:4, Insightful)
I have had one or two students in the past that, despite my warnings in the very first class, chose to avoid the seminars and just download the notes. Invariably, they fail the course miserably, since they literally miss half the material - the experiential half - despite the fact that the text that is performed is the text that is downloaded.
A good prof will create a sufficiently engaging and useful experience in the classroom so that the students will do whatever they can to not miss the class.
(As an aside, relative to the "it's my intellectual property" thread, I make all of my materials on applied media theory freely available on request to any professor anywhere in the world who wants to use them under an appropriate CC license. Yes, it's material that I have evolved and developed over years. Yes, it represents a considerable amount of work and scholarship. And yes, it enables me to influence and touch so many more students than I could ever hope to reach directly. In return, I achieve recognition and reputation that are among the important currencies of the academy. Doing so also results in invitations for paying gigs in various cool places around the world.)
I wish I'd had this option (Score:3, Interesting)
You think this is expensive? (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's say he records the lecture digitally (say, with his ipod he already owned) so that he has to do minimal post processing of the lecture, and the initial investment in equipment is near-zero. Now, if he were to screen the content and make minor edits to clean up the file, you might expect him to spend 30 minutes on a 1.5 hour lecture. I'm assuming he's pretty efficient here, as the last time I recorded a book to CD for my daugter, it took about 20 minutes to combine and clean a book that finished at 7 minutes of audio (I Wish That I Had Duck Feet, if you must know). So 30 minutes to quick-review and prep, another 5 to upload. If he gets 80% of the cost of the product after processing fees and such, that's $2/purchase. Now, if you had to hire a professor at rack rates, you'd be looking at about $150-$350/hr, depending on the purpose (research vs expert witness) and the efficiency of the school's financial system (many have well over 200% overhead).
So for a typical lecture, this guy would would need to sell $200/hr x 35 min / $2 = 58 copies to break even on a "fee for service" basis. Maybe he's got some big lecture classes, but most classes above the freshman or sophomore level rarely have that many students total. I'd say, aside from the ehtical issues, $2.50 is a bargain.
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Let's see how the state legisla
Well depends on what he's selling (Score:2)
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The worst professors I had were the few who DID produce lectures without notes as a fixed reference point. Why? Because the material on their tests generally came from a book and had little relevance to the lectures.
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The professor isn't providing lecture notes for a fee. He's providing recordings of the lectures.
The U.K. educational system is apparently quite different from the system in the U.S. At the two universities I've studied at, only a few professors provide lecture outlines, and none that I know of provide full lecture notes. If you miss a lecture, it's your responsibility to get notes from another student. In the U.S., providing lecture notes is not part of a professor's job description.
Taking notes is
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If there is not enough time to simultaneously take notes and understand the course, the professor is going too fast. This is how you get classes (especially on the graduate level) where a bunch of intelligent students spend so much time furiously scribbling that when the professor finally decides to stop and ask a question, half of the class is too preoccupied with catching up in their note-taking to answer and the other half has no clue what's going on because they haven't actually analyzed a word they've
Not everyone sees it that way... (Score:2)
Quote Dr. Schrag "Your tuition buys you access to the lectures in the classroom. If you want to hear one again, you can buy it."
From the parent post...
So, if this lecturer is claiming it is extra effort to produce lecture notes, then he is not doing his job, frankly.
One of my disappointments in college was to find that every professor has their own theory of what they are "obligated" to offer as professor at a university. Some professors see classes as an obligatory tax paid in return fo
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Students paying tuition are paying for fair access to course materials. Providing these materials selectively and at extra cost to privileged students is unfair and exploitative. It skews the bell curve towards wealthier students and thus obviates the level playing ground provided by a lecture-centric educational system.
If this good professor wishes to charge for his knowledge, he should abandon tenure and leave the university. Once the university is no longer pushing students into his cou
Re:^ Mod parent up (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank god didn't apply to me-- I bought my way thorugh college while working 55 hours a week. The lucky poor guys on grants had 55 hours a week to study that I didn't.
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yeah, 2.50 is going to fund his retirement.
it seems like he is acknowledging the infrequent need for a recording, while also acknowledging that such recording is not a fundamental right. i'll go along with that.
my guess is that every recording will end up being shared, free, by his students on whatever the hip p2p network of the week is.
Re:Free at MIT--and Harvard too (Score:2)
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Educational tapestry (Score:2)