Unbox Too Restricted and Too Expensive? 185
abb_road writes "Businessweek takes a first look at Amazon's new video service and walks away unimpressed. Between the high cost of downloads, the sometimes-poor video quality and the restrictions required by movie studios, they're not predicting a huge hit. From the article: 'Amazon finally launched its long-awaited online video service on Sept. 7. But it's no sure thing that it will catch on with the masses. The service, called Amazon Unbox, offers downloads of movies and television shows, as well as digital movie rentals. But like all its rivals, it's shackled by a raft of viewing limitations imposed by movie studios.'"
And...? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And...? (Score:4, Informative)
If they had an itunes-like client I already used which could download at bittorrent or even segmented multi-part speeds. I would be all over it.
Re:And...? (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. This sounds like iTunes all over again. For years there were sketchy mp3 downloading services charging outrageous prices for songs or free p2p programs battling with MPAA.
Then Apple came along and changed everything. They found a way to sell mp3s at a price people were willing to pay and with the power of the iPod became the 800-lbs gorilla of the whole internet music provider service.
I predict Apple will do the same thing again. It'd take very little effort for them to come out with a iTunes enabled DVD media player with hard drive for ~$199 that connects directly to your TV and has built-in wifi to connect to your existing broadband router that enables the downloading of full movies for a few bucks, or at least less than what Netflix and competitors charge (cheapest plan = $5.99/mo, 1 dvd at a time, limit of 2 a month). You can also transfer them to your iPod and watch them on the go.
Might even be DVR capable, or that could be the $299 model
This would be huge and carry Apple far beyond just a music provider, now they'd be in control of viewable media too, a new content provider, and with a direct broadband connection they could insert their own commericals at the beginning before playing movies, etc.
Apple would be unstoppable.
Re:And...? (Score:4, Insightful)
In effect, my concern about mine and others' online rights as completely stopped me from getting my music legally. And, by and large, movies as well (and that's only because a 1080p projector and 50.1 surround is a bit out of my price range, not to mention how it's not too compatible with a college dorm). My father used Rhapsody some time ago (I think, one of those WMA ones), and the DRM made his player useless. He's not stupid when it comes to computers - he eventually found out that burning and reripping his songs would strip off the restrictions. And it was a massive pain in the ass. Guess what - he buys NO music online anymore. Mind you, this was before PlaysForSure, but everyone knows that device lock-in is bullshit, and the moment that you start to notice DRM, it's not working properly. I love my iPod and use it all the time for music, and almost always use iTunes when I'm at the computer. But I watched a 30-minute video on my iPod last night, and I came away with a sore wrist like never before.
At least with audio, I just need to have speakers nearby, and have a standard 3.5mm jack. iPod-quality video really looks crappy on any decent-sized screen, and the notion of being forced to use iTunes or my iPod for iTVS(?) content is insane, especially with the absolutely horrible video playback capabilities of iTunes (the windows are completely counter-intuitive, not to mention slow to respond). While I'm sure that a video store would bring about iTunes v7, that doesn't mean it'll handle video playback any better. I HAVE to use QuickTime to watch movies in my iTunes library, just because the playback is so messed up within iTunes. Then, just the limited resolution and audio quality, not to mention a possible rentals-only method. Only the MPAA could be dumb enough to think that we'd pay just as much for a time-limited rental (and no late fees, it'll just dissapear) that you have to spend quite a while downloading, with only stereo audio and resolution that's probably half of what DVD has to offer. It's almost as if they're trying to prove to themselves that people aren't interested in digital distribution. My DVD-quality files are generally 2-2.5GB in size, which will take an insane amount of time to download over most home broadband connections.
What's the point of all of this? Apple could easily pull off an extremely successful iTunes Video Store. They know how to do it, and have a pretty damn good idea of what people want. But they're being bound to restrictions forced upon them by the MPAA (no contract, no content, after all, so it's their way or the highway), which they probably know are going to really piss people off. Sure, Apple might strike a deal with Youtube that'll work with the parent's concept box (which wouldn't surprise me - Youtube has all rights over their content unless the uploader pulls it, and they of all companies know that people don't want to put up with stupid restrictions and just want cheap cont
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Of course, they already make something that does all that [apple.com], though it's a bit pricier than $200 (and there's no built-in tuner, though you can get addon tuners for it pretty cheaply now, including a rather nice miniature ATSC/ClearQAM HD tuner for $250ish).
Step 2, 3? (Score:3, Funny)
So is this what YouTube would be like if they decided to play along with the MPAA and charge subscription fees?
Bears repeating... (Score:5, Insightful)
Netflix! (Score:3, Insightful)
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For all we know youtube could be making lots of money, not that likely admittedly but no one other than the u-tube people know.
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Not much different than it is. Outside of
If Apple comes up with a video iPod which shows a good picture on a 27" or larger screen, at least on par with present DVDs, they will have a hit. That requires either a lot of storage or a re
o rly? (Score:3, Insightful)
And the counter-argument:
More expensive than other legal methods (just buying the dvd used): well, it's not more expensive than buying on Amazon itself as it calculates the savings for you and displays them. Yes you could buy the DVD used but so what, the convenience is worth it for some - I don't plan evenings when I feel tired and want to watch some TV weeks in advance, it just happens. And when it does I want to watch some episodes of 24 right there and then, if I can. I'm willing to pay more than g
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just kidding, i used to make mixtapes to play in my car because it had a tape player in it, back in the old days when shifting formats was "fair use".
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Do you really want to watch a two hour movie holding an iPod like player with a postage stamp screen? Your hands will likely get rather tired holding any portable gadget for that long.
MPAA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:MPAA (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? They've already bought draconian anti-fair-use laws that make the fines for "copyright violation" high enough to bankrupt most upper middle-class families, along with punishments for breaking DRM comparable to murder. Even if they go whining to the government, what more do you fear they'll get?
They really can't get any more, with current technology. We have effectively "lost" as badly as we can, with only a few freedom fighters such as DVD Jon as the last holdouts. And the media cartels have only our growing hatred to show for it.
Re:MPAA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:MPAA (Score:5, Funny)
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Sure it does: the corporations make the law. Well, to be exact, they pay their employees in Senate to vote for it, but that's semantics. Anyway, there's plenty of human beings in the US, so the
Fair Use by Crossover office (Score:2)
What I wonder is whether this DRM is in the OS or in the player itself. If it is in the Player will Wine or Crossover office be able to play the movies on Linux and Mac without having a copy of the operating system?
One suspects that the long term trend, espeically with HDTV, is going to be DRM that flo
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Re:MPAA (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:MPAA (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider that most average users want a fair price and ease of use. DRM solutions eliminate the second want and the industry's greed eliminates the first want. Everyday that passes is a day where a potential customer will turn to bittorrent and filesharing for their movie needs. "The price is that much? Fine, I'll get it for free from Pirate Bay" or "I have to download another player, can't move it to my laptop, and need to buy it again when I reinstall Windows for the fifth time this year? Fine, I'll figure out how Azureus works and get it from there" could be typical reactions to these crappy online offerings. In the long-run, they are losing more money by turning away customers by not making this cheap and easy.
All their bought-and-paid-for legislation and new DRM technologies won't change anything. They will never be able to win this war on the technological or litigious battlefields. They will only win this when they make it so easy that your grandma could use it and it wouldn't bankrupt her in the process.
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Who would pay the same price (or near it) for less features?
Surprised? (Score:2)
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"Low Resolution" S-Video cable? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Hate to nitpick, but I think you meant "component," not "composite." A composite cable is even worse thant S-Video, at least that separates the luminance and chrominance signals.
And since we're talking about video cables, did you know that component video cables are not RGB on DVD players (and most video equipment)? They're actually Y/Pb/Pr, which is fun, crazy math time!
Okay, I'm off my soap box now.
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Correction - When you have an NTSC-quality TV, S-Video can provide as close to an optimal picture as you can get.
You can't, however, do progressive-scan over Y/C... Meaning that most newer DVDs will look considerably better over component (Y/Pb/Pr) or even digital interconects (when going to a display of sufficient quality, of course).
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You need DVI with HDCP on both the computer and the monitor or HDMI to do digital transfer of the video. Most people with mediacenter PCs still don't have that kind of "secure" video setup.
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Perhaps on SDTV, but on an HD set, component cables make a fairly big difference on quality, and allow for HD modes. There is also that nice auto-widescreen detection, so no hunting for the TV remote when the extra content is in 4:3...
Putting the whole quote in context:
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Perhaps you haven't heard of DRM?
Once a signal is DRM'd you can't output it over a digital signal unless all devices along that path support the encryption (in this case HDCP). HDCP graphics cards are as rare as hens teeth (manufacturers have been caught more than once claiming their cards are HDCP compliant when they weren't anything of the sort.. I'll believe there's an HDCP compliant card when I see proof that it's recognised as such by vista.. which bt
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Unbox needs to reboxed and sent back... (Score:5, Interesting)
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I once wanted to buy a copy of a Lost episode I missed and would have been quite happy to shell out 1.99 for the lowres version on iTunes, but they wouldn't let me. (at least not without creating a Fake identity with a US address and US issued credit card)
Apple (Score:2)
Of course. It'll feature brushed metal and light-gray to white gradients.
This is a surprise how? (Score:2, Informative)
Why do the movie studios think I actually want this? Why don't they realize that if they don't allow their customers to use their product as they wish (without redistributin
So I can buy a movie... (Score:5, Insightful)
I get to watch it on my monitor, which is fairly small.
In my office, where there's room for one, maybe two people.
On an uncomfortable chair instead of my couch.
And I get to pay more than an excellent condition DVD off of ebay, often as much or more than the DVD from Amazon, and probably more than the WalMart B&M down the road.
In return I get to avoid waiting the 2 days for shipping (which I get "free" from Amazon Prime), or driving the 4 miles to a local store.
I'm sorry, was there something I was supposed to enjoy about this transaction?
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Re:So I can buy a movie... (Score:5, Funny)
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In other words, you allow people to get used DVD's from you instead of making each watcher buy one directly from the maker, therefore lessening the demand for DVD's and causing the artist to starve. Shame on you !
Seriously, getting rid of second-hand market is one of the main reasons for DRM. It's a
No Subtitles? (Score:5, Informative)
I'll stick with my Tivo and Giganews subscription, thank you very much.
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Isn't that a violation of section 305 of the 1996 Telecommunications Act [fcc.gov]?
Or is video-on-demand somehow immune to that act now?
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I don't like to have my private parts managed (Score:2, Interesting)
...so I'll pass on this one. Just like I'll pass on Blu-ray and HD-DVD (unless pirated). Dignity > watching the latest movie.
If they offered files for purchase, I'd happily buy them. But I don't like streaming crap, digital restrictions management crap, propietary codecs and formats crap, etc. If I buy something, I must be getting a simple [b]octet-stream[/b]. No magic, no "final format", no "copy protections", no crap. That's the only format I accept.
Why does Amazon copy failure instead of success? (Score:5, Insightful)
DIVX disks played on ordinary DVD players, were time-limited, and cost less than straight DVDs. And failed.
FlexPlay disks played on ordinary DVD players, were time-limited, cost less than straight DVDs, and failed.
Amazon Unbox WON'T play on ordinary DVD player, won't play on my almost-spiffy almost-new Mac Mini, won't play on my wife's PC (Windows 98), wouldn't have played on the Hewlett-Packard PC my daughter's family uses (WIndows 2000 Home Edition) before it crapped out a few months ago, won't play on the spiffy new Mac Mini she replaced it with, apparently won't play on any portable video device...
And up to now I thought Jeff Bezos was a smart guy.
Re:Why does Amazon copy failure instead of success (Score:2)
But DVDs which were protected from being "backed up" *rolls eyes* didn't fail. So, I don't see the causation you're trying to imply from correlation.
Many people already watch TV or movies on a computer, Mac is still an insignificant part of the market (sorry, that's what the figures say ...), and who wants to watch a movie on a de
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But I doubt it's anywhere near enough people to market a whole service to them.
Probably the same people who keep buying TV shows from iTunes, which seems to be doing very well. I don't understand the appeal either, but it seems like they're out there.
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I do. I am one of those crazy people who do that, and here is a few reasons why.
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The increase in both video and, most especially, audio quality was astounding.
From a fuzzy, often degraded video source with, at best stereo, to a crisp, reliable video source with 5.1 encoding that was crystal clear.
The light amount of copy protect on the DVD wasn't enough to prevent the market moving across to it, because of the benefits.
Currently (and it has been for quite some time now) it is possible for even
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Right, but so does internet based video-on-demand. Choose from a large catalogue and have it there very quickly (if you stream it). It's more convenient than messing around with easily scratched disks. It's the same argument as online music store vs CDs. Whether Amazon actually give you all the advantages I don't know. But the potential is there.
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No, people would just have been using copies of keys that had been extracted from 'official' DVD players. That's been done, and I think it actually predates DeCSS. We use libdvdcss instead because it's probably legal in most of the world (except the US and its vassals, like AU).
(The media hoarders claim that the decryption keys are copyrighted, and prosecuted some people who used copies of keys in commercial products - the sanit
Re:Why does Amazon copy failure instead of success (Score:2)
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The difference between Windows and Windows+Mac is a couple percentage points of marketshare. Mac users who will buy DRMed content are likely to use iTMS in any case. Having WMV files not play on Mac is a loss of virtually no customers.
The problem is copyright law (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is copyright law, not individual idiocy (although that contributes greatly to the current media problem). Modern copyright laws are like a shackles binding slaves in a sinking galley. They keep trying to row their oars harder and harder -- because that's all they know how to do -- but the ship keeps sinking because it's the wrong solution to an existing problem.
It's obvious that intellectual property laws are severely hampering innovation an
Re:Why does Amazon copy failure instead of success (Score:2)
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More likely WinMe (Millenium edition). It was the home version of Windows released in 2000. Therefore it was Win 2000 Home. Completely wrong of course, WinMe was actually the last Window built on the 9x/Dos platform (rather than the NT/2000/XP platform), but it's still what people say.
Microsoft added to the confusion in that what they wanted to release in 2000 was what later became WinXP. They weren't able to finish
Re:Why does Amazon copy failure instead of success (Score:2)
If only there was evidence of this.
Amazon is only evidence of his connections with people who have money.
Anyone else notice? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't go in for what most of the whiney slashbot crowd does, but this one brings some glee to my cold little heart that a fairly popular magazine is helping to relabel DRM appropriately. I don't care what movie studios do to their products, but it offends me as a consumer when they try to lock my purchases up and tell me what to do with them after I own them.
I don't support the dirty theives that are too cheap to pay for music and movies, but it's also not my problem and if you're going to make me suffer because they're scumballs, I'm not going to buy your stuff either. Not only will the jobless wonders keep stealing from you, I'll just stop buying on top of it.
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question is.... (Score:2)
Once cracked, THEN you could burn DVD's, and move the media to use as you see fit...
Then it would be a worthwhile way to purchase media IMHO. Which of course the media producing companies will have no part it.
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I disagree. I still think it would be pretty worthless.
If I can pay the same price for the DVD, getting 5.1 sound and extras in the process, I'm not going to pay for the download even if I have the option of losing video quality and wasting time by re-encoding it to MPEG2 and burning it to DVD.
Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
But are there really a significant number of people with the computer-large screen integration to make this program useful? The article brings that point in at the end, but I wonder how much overlap there is between the Media Center crowd and the non-P2P'ing-everything-anyway crowd.
What were they thinking? (Score:2)
If it's not just me, and everyone's first reaction is "oh my god, how much does this idea suck?" you really have to wonder about their motivation, and you start putting more weight into the theories that this is so the studios and MPAA can say "see, people just don't want to pay for movie downloads.
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I was thinking it was more for early adopters who already have a computer hooked up to their TV and sound system, acting as a DVR or HTPC (like me.)
Right (like me). This is why Unbox just doesn't make any sense to me.
Moo (Score:4, Insightful)
It's simple. People want to download movies. Paying for it is not the issue, as many people will say. It's just plain old availibility.
The companies would love it if noone could watch a movie outside of a theatre, and would only sell long dead movies. The people think theatre's are a nice experience, but that is added on top of viewing the movie itself. And, if you don't like the theatre, or going to a theatre is cumbersome or not feasable, or even watching the entire movie in one shot is not desirable, the movie needs to be availible elsewhere. Also, people are willing to pay a premium to watch it the first time, but not the second, third, or more. Being many people who download movies have already seen it in the theatre, charging a premium at home would alienate that subset of potential buyers.
That's where this service comes in. They set up a mini-theatre in your house with some control (although, they own the process and restrict its use). This is what people don't like. But, it also means its happening. For Amazon to get this far, means that the industry recognizes the need. It's a large step, though perhaps not large enough for the consumers. The point is, it will happen. Eventually. And the more the industry holds back, the more piracy will pound them on the side.
So be happy. The child has taken his first step.
This needs accompanying hardware! (Score:3, Insightful)
The overall business model works a lot better for music downloads, because A) They're smaller and take a lot less time to download, B) Every single user of a portable digital music player has to learn to sync it with a PC in order to load it up with music, so a PC is a logical "starting point" for receiving that type of content, and C) Many more people are comfortable burning a standards-compliant audio CD from a PC for use in their home or car stereo than are comfortable burning DVD movie content that plays properly on their stand-alone players.
If it was really commonplace for people to use their computer as a media center attached to a TV and surround sound stereo receiver, then this might go over a little bit better. But it's not! Half the people buying new computers with "Windows Media Center edition" preloaded on them don't even use the TV playback and recording capabilities of it. They just went with it because the whole bundle was on sale....
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How can anyone say it is too expensive (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How can anyone say it is too expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
What's the Newspeak for 'Amazon'? (Score:2)
Doubleplus ungood.
Fastinating.... (Score:2)
Audio is 48khz 6 channel.
Studio behavior... (Score:2)
I have a friend who has been doing various VoD offerings for the last 7 years or so in Taiwan. The Chinese/Taiwanese distribution companies have an implicit understanding that when they release product, it will be pirated, and there is not much they can do about that. They go on to focus on boring stuff like maximizing revenue from their product.
When my friend pitches the idea of offering movies to Chinese stuidos using VoD over the Int
Let them know what you think: (Score:2)
I won't buy (Score:2)
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It's a trap! [itsatrap.net]
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"So now, Mr. Congressman, you have no reason not to pass our new "Digital Media Consumers' Rights Act". Yes, I know that it requires the death penalty without due process for suspected infringers, and yes yes, the new Corporate Copyright Storm Trooper section of the bill may raise a few eyebrows but we need this to protect the artists so just sign it if you want your check."
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This has been proclaimed dead by a site independent of Slashdot, so it must be true. Netcraft confirms it: Amazon Unbox is dying.
Re:Unbox Link (Score:5, Funny)
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Here's a non-referral link for people who couldn't type in www.amazon.com/unbox [amazon.com].
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Even the short link [amazon.com] you posted again takes to http://www.amazon.com/b/?&node=16261631 [amazon.com] only.
Wonder why Amazon doesnt want to publicize a direct link.
Re:Have you guys even checked it out? (Score:5, Informative)
It won't work on my computer (Mac Mini), my wife's computer (Windows 98), my son's computer (Windows XP... over dialup), my daughter's old computer (WIndows 2000 Home Edition), or my daughter's new computer (Mac Mini).
Will Amazon also give me a free trial of a brand-new PC (with 2.4 gigahertz processor, and a gig of RAM, and a "DirectX 9.0 complaint Video" [sic]?
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More like 75%. It requires Windows XP, nothing earlier, not even 2000. The latest stats I can find put WinXP at only about 75% penetration [w3schools.com] as of August.
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Maybe you should check the disclaimer on the page to which you linked [w3schools.com]: