Do Ergonomic Chairs Really Work? 143
cliffski wonders: "I've gone from a job as a commuting programmer working on his own code as a hobby, to a full time work-from-home one-man business. As I spend a good hour or two a day gaming as well as a full day's coding, I'm now sitting at the same desk for an awfully long time. Should I invest in one of those trendy ergonomic chairs that force you to sit with a straight back posture? Has anyone used one for a length of time, and does it really help prevent back pain? I've taken up archery, probably the best sport to encourage you to adopt good posture; are there any other tips Slashdot readers have for avoiding 'programmer slouch'?"
Exercise helps a lot, too. (Score:5, Insightful)
But if you're going to be sitting in a chair 12 hours a day, an Aeron is very comfortable, and you can set it to 'no-slouch' mode.
Re:Exercise helps a lot, too. (Score:5, Funny)
That's why you THROW the chair ... and its much more impressive when its an expensive "ergonomic" chair than your aunt's old bridge table folding chair. Now if only pro wrestlers would make the switch to *real* chairs when supposedly clubbing their opponents ... those folding chairs don't fool anyone. An Aeron, on the other hand, while shouting "I'll fucking [kill/bury/whatever] you ...
Re:Exercise helps a lot, too. (Score:2, Interesting)
Sit-ups or crunches (Score:4, Informative)
Specifically, strengthening your stomach muscles by doing sit-ups [wikipedia.org] or crunches [wikipedia.org] helps your back muscles relax. Often where you feel the pain is not the position of the actual problem.
They put a lot of stress on your knees. (Score:2, Informative)
Mod parent up! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:They put a lot of stress on your knees. (Score:1)
Re:They put a lot of stress on your knees. (Score:5, Informative)
That lasted about a year. The position you're put in with a kneeling chair shifts a lot of the weight your back would normally bear onto your hips. One day I found that my hips hurt when I walked; it was obviously getting much worse when I was kneeling in the chair so I stopped doing that. It was too late to reverse the damage by then. It's been 18 months since, and I still haven't completely recovered use of my hips.
If your posture is bad, and your back is bothering you, you can play with chairs all day; all you'll do is shift where you're putting the pressure at to some other part which will then buckle eventually. You need exercise that targets that specific weak area to correct this. Archery is better than nothing, I guess, but I wouldn't expect that just focusing on posture alone would give great results. You need to force your muscles to bear weight beyond their normal range to get them to grow, and my recollection of archery mechanics recalls it only really works the upper back muscles.
Since my case was bad by the time I had the resources to address it, the only thing I found that worked was combining ideas from my doctor, a physical therapist, and a personal trainer until I had a back workout routine that really made me feel where the back muscles that bear weight were at. Once you achive that, you can practice flexing them and train them properly to support more of your weight. I can now sit up perfectly straight just by tightening that part of my back and all sorts of problems have gone away. I find myself arching my back over the top of crappy chairs when I have to sit in them, not even using the back of the chair if it's not the right shape.
Check out the fun list of exercises at http://www.thetrainingstationinc.com/back-exercis
It's the lower-back section that mirrors what I ended up doing. My doctor recommended against Hyper-Extensions as being too stressful, and my hip issues made Deadlifts difficult. The Lower Back Machine exercise has worked wonders for me (in my gym as the Icarian "Low Back Extension" machine), and I'm hoping to introduce the Good Morning exercise in the near future.
Also, both my doctor and therapist gave me a little green cartoon booklet of back exercises to do at home with ones own body weight; will reply to myself in this thread when I find it again with details.
Re:They put a lot of stress on your knees. (Score:1)
Examine WHY your sitting still all day (Score:4, Insightful)
The biggest problem is sitting in the same place all day, it does your back, arms, eyes and neck no good.
I find my best work comes whilst I am away from my desk, having a smoke, laying on my bed, pacing around, playing with the kids or just watchin tv.
Get your eyes away from your screen and think about the code you are about to write.
Take a pad and pencil and make sparse notes, formulate solutions then do your code in short bursts when you return so you don't strain yourself.
I would also recommend swimming over archery since archery seems more like a strength persuit rather than excersize.
As you imply... (Score:2)
Seriously. Even if you don't get up to puff, just moving your limbs around once in a while is enough to prevent most RSI injury. My chiropractor told me the same thing ten years ago, though he pointed out there are probably better ways to keep yourself from sitting immobile all day.
No, I didn't bother asking any oncologists about my chiropractor's advice. And I probably wouldn't bring it up in a cancer ward. But perhaps NORML could help
Re:Examine WHY your sitting still all day (Score:1)
Although I also think it's a great idea to hit the pool after being on the range for a while. =-)
Not much change, even for a high price (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe that's a *good* thing... (Score:4, Informative)
This is the theory behind those programs to remind you to take short breaks every hour. It's also a good excuse to ask your employer for a laptop computer so you can amble over to the couch, the coffeeshop, the park, or wherever you feel like working. Stay moving, stay alive.
It sounds plausible, and I've heard the same thing from at least two other chiropractors I've met. (I've never developed a cubicle injury, at least not yet--I was seeing a chiropractor for physical therapy, long story.)
Re:Maybe that's a *good* thing... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Maybe that's a *good* thing... (Score:2)
Stokke furniture [stokkeusa.com] is the modern trendy stuff.
Re:Not much change, even for a high price (Score:2)
Re:Not much change, even for a high price (Score:1)
I've had an Aeron-style knock off chair (I'm too cheap to shell out for the real thing) for almost two years.
I do agree with you that it comes down to the user's "willingness to commit to a proper [ergonomic] regimen," but I've found that with my "ergonomic" chair, it's much more comfortable to sit upright and position my arms correctly on the arm rests and my feet correctly on the floor. With my previous vanilla office chair, it was uncomfortable -- and some days painful -- to sit in an "ergonomically co
Re:Not much change, even for a high price (Score:2)
An Aeron Tale: It's worthwhile. (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, after a year or so of that, I got severe pain in my hands from the poor typing position that ensued from such a crummy chair. I went to a doctor and he prescribed a truly bizarre wrist splint and an ergonomic chair.
My panicked boss, fearing potential lawsuits in the air, bought me an Aeron and a wrist rest for my keyboard. I tried the wrist splint but it was so weird feeling to use that I didn't use it more than a day or so.
Haven't had any wrist problems since, so having an Aeron or a similarly adjustable chair definitely helps a lot. I had bought an Aeron for home use before getting the one at my work. I now work at home so I'm either using the Aeron or relaxing outdoors with lawn chairs. For some reason relaxing outdoors, even with non-optimal chairs, seems to work wonders for my attitude. Curious but true.
I don't know about the kneeling chair. I tried one once but found it so uncomfortable and strange it wasn't of interest.
Hope that helps.
D
Trendy? (Score:2)
Re:Trendy? (Score:2)
Kneeling chairs suck. And also they make you look gay because you look like you are about to give a blowjob.
Herman Millar Aeron chairs are very nice. Are they worth the "extra" money? Well, I don't know. They aren't really that much more than a decent office chair you'd get anywhere else. And they are very nice.
Re:Trendy? (Score:2)
He linked to a page of Balans knockoffs, so I assumed that's what he meant by "ergonomic".
1990? (Score:2)
Re:1990? (Score:1)
You Should (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be better for you to get up once an hour or so and take a stroll; smell the flowers.
Re:You Should (Score:2)
and ADD (Score:2)
Sure... (Score:3, Insightful)
My advice? Go to one of those office supply places and sit in every chair. Buy the one you feel is most comfortable, and learn how to make all the possible adjustments. Next, get off your ass every now and then--stretch your legs, go have a conversation (with yourself) at the water cooler (kitchen sink), etc....
Steelcase Leap (Score:4, Informative)
I found that with many ergonomic chairs, it didn't matter how perfect the back shape was--sitting in any kind of fixed position for long enough would give me back ache. With the Leap, the back is designed to flex.
Re:Steelcase Leap (Score:2)
While I don't think you need to pay big money for a chair, you do need a decent chair. Those $50 Staples chairs are murder for me.
And yes, exercise helps a lot. Build up your abs with crunches and you will help support your spine.
Re:Steelcase Leap (Score:2)
Re:Steelcase Leap (Score:2)
The Aeron is nice because it's made out of mesh, but it's a fairly cheap plastic chair in other respects, IMO. I feel like if I'm really rough on it, it'll break. Not like a $30 piece-of-crap from Staples perhaps, but it doesn't feel like the sort of thing that's going to last a few decades either.
Contrast that to the Steelcase chair I have in my home off
A nice change, but not a full-time chair (Score:2, Informative)
+1 for therapy ball (Score:1)
Short form: No. (Score:3, Informative)
Long form: I've used about five or six different brands/models of that type of posture chair and ALL of them hurt my knees and shins and fuck up my back, although they seem to be good for my shoulders. I'm not willing to trade my knees, shins, and back for my shoulders, which are the only part of my body that hurts after sitting in normal chairs.
On a more personal, TMI-kind of note, I end up crushing the boys when trying to sit in them while wearing pants. Maybe my balls just hang low (swing to and fro, tie them in a knot etc) but I don't consider a chair that I can only sit in while pantsless to be very useful.
Re:Short form: No. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Short form: No. (Score:2)
Apparently, you've never seen that scene in Apocalypse Now where the new guy in the helicopter asks "Why do all you guys sit on your helmets?" and the nail-spitting old-timer responds "So we don't get our balls shot off". Too much information? Or damn good advice?
Kneeling chairs work (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Kneeling chairs work (Score:1)
It's a lot cheaper.
Re:Kneeling chairs work (Score:2)
Re:Kneeling chairs work (Score:2)
At home I have the original Balans Variable; found at a swap meet for $25. I love it.
Of course they work (Score:3, Insightful)
I get mine at the university surplus for $5 or $10 each, instead of the $1000 the original buyer paid. I think our office was equipped for about $100 all told.
That said, I find if you don't get up and stretch about once every hour or so, you'll probably end up with back problems. And if you'd just take the stairs instead of sit all day, you'd have far fewer problems in the first place, since humans are designed to walk about 30 to 45 minutes a day.
Re:Of course they work (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course they work (Score:2)
Re:Of course they work (Score:1)
Most medical genetics seems to indicate 30-45 minutes of moderate exercise (walking/gardening) a day, five out of seven days, is what you need. You can do more, but the health benefits drop off after that.
We're definitely not designed to sit in chairs and type on keyboards.
Re:Of course they work (Score:2)
I don't want to call bullshit, but this kind of statement always sets off some bells in my mind. You wouldn't happen to have a cite, would you?
Not for me. (Score:3, Informative)
Might work better for skinny people; I wouldn't know.
Move around (Score:3, Insightful)
Others have said it, I'll say it again...
It's much easier and cheaper to just get up and move around than it is to get a really expensive chair. I assume you have a laptop, so move around with it. Sit at the desk for a while, sit on the couch, sit on a bed, go outside and sit on the front steps (if it's not raining), etc.... Your day will be less monotonous if you're not staring at the same desk and wall the whole time, too.
Ahhh... one of these questions (Score:1)
I have no idea if good chairs help generate good posture (I've never gotten an employer to buy me one)... but I do know that a bad chair certainly aids poor posture.
If you can get someone to buy one for you, do it and let us know how it goes. If nothing else, you'll have lots of levers and knobs to adjust on the chair.
Short Answer: No (Score:2)
Yes, they help, but... (Score:1)
Does it really work? (Score:1, Redundant)
ask a specialist (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ask a specialist (Score:2)
What's your problem? (Score:2)
But what is your problem? Maybe you have a tough spine but you're hunching forward and rolling your shoulders forward? This is also bad posture and can lead to other problems.
As other people have noted, y
Be very carefull (Score:2)
1. Good posture seat is a misnomer. When a guy tells you, this 500$ chair is made to cure back pain
you must try them out (Score:1)
i must say that if it were not for my ergonimic chair, i would be a debilitated programmer. probably making my living building brick walls, as the lifting & carrying of bricks and mortar are far more ergonimic activities in my experience.
BUT - the chair MUST FIT YOUR OWN BACK, not some average ideal back. you must try them all out before you buy one. if you get one that doesn't do it for your unique body, then it's not really an ergonomic chair.
also find out what's important for you. for me, i mus
Try an inflatable fitness ball as a chair (Score:2, Interesting)
I did a quick search on the net for info to
Exercise helps; major cause is stress (Score:4, Insightful)
Pilates (Score:4, Informative)
It helped my back pain when nothing else did, post a car accident.
Pilates Studios are also usually 10-1 female, and they're often young attractive dancer types, so it's fun for that reason as well.
Re:Pilates (Score:2)
Re:Pilates (Score:2)
(Hell, I'm 50, fat, and have a bad baclk. Unless I meet one with a serious Daddy thing, I'm not going to date them.)
Re:Pilates (Score:3, Funny)
I had a bad baclk once. Doctor had to freeze the damn thing off.
Re:Pilates (Score:2)
(They're wrong: typing is the first to go.)
Ergonomic chair == good. Cheap USA crap == bad. (Score:2)
Yet the best ergonomic chair I know of is a german stool which I actually would get for myself. In my experience the Swopper [swopper.com]
Go Stokke! (Score:2)
I've had a Stokke Variable Balans since 2001 and I'll never go back to an ordinary office chair. With the Stokke it's nigh impossible to sit in a wrong (i.e. hunched) way.
The Variable Balans (like most Stokkes) has the same principle as the crappy kneeling chairs, but the base is 'rocking'. It lets your body find its own balance, instead of a one-size-fits-all preset. This also goes with Stokke's philosophy that the human body is built for moving around, rather than for sitting completely still with 90
Do your research (Score:2)
Try what I did... (Score:5, Interesting)
Visit a car scrapyard and buy the best car seat you can find. Right now typing this from a luxury model BMW driver's seat. Cost: $17. If this one dies (not likely!), I'm gonna get another. Never more overpaying for computer desk chairs in furniture shops!
Minus: Not rotating. Plus/minus - heavy, not really movable (but can be easily adjusted forward/back, sliding on rails). And requires some (little) work to make a good basis/attachment.
most excellent... (Score:1)
The other thing I was thinking of is an old barber chair! Those things are really comfy, too, and are really adjustable.
Re:Try what I did... (Score:2)
Re:Try what I did... (Score:1)
One problem though (IMO) is that car seats tend toward being warm (hot!); though I didn't really want leather car seats, that's what I ended up finding as part of the best-overall deal when I bought my current car (a 1998 Subaru), and the leather really is nicer on the body than the fabric-covered seats I'd always previously
Re:Try what I did... (Score:3, Informative)
Data Point (Score:4, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Those chairs rock (Score:2)
Drinking a bit more water certainly won't hurt you, but chronic dehydration isn't a problem in the western world, and wouldn't lead to back problems at any rate.
Do they work? (Score:1)
Try for an extended period (Score:3, Interesting)
I picked up a Herman Miller Aeron... (Score:4, Interesting)
Mesh gravity chairs are comfy (Score:2, Interesting)
However, a few days ago I picked up from the local Dick's Sporting Goods a similarly reclining chair (mesh, not leather) which folds, weighs probably about 15 pounds, and only cost $60. Since I've had it only a f
Aeron = 14 hour workdays (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to say that the Aeron made it possible to work long hours -- even with 14 hour days, I felt fine. That wasn't the case with other office chairs, before or since. While it was popular to scoff at the Aeron chairs during the dot-com-crash days, I actually think those chairs were actually sensible spending by the companies.
Cheap sub-$100 chairs are crap. If you're going to buy ONE chair for yourself, you're better off going to a good retail dealer and have them educate you on the product, and choose/adjust the seat that fit you. And, if they're a true high-quality retailer, they should be willing to take the seat back even after you've taken it home for a couple weeks. If you're going to spend money on making yourself productive, be generous to yourself.
Re:Aeron = 14 hour workdays (Score:2)
I got a neeler like the submitter linked to immediately, and it was very good - I just couldn't sit in a normal chair for several years. You have to be dilligent sitting in a neeler, sometimes I catch myself slouching and leaning on my desk.
Also they tend to make your shins/knees sore after sitting in them for a long period
I can sit in an Aeron when my back hurts (Score:2, Interesting)
Good posture is cheaper (Score:2, Informative)
That said, zafu and zabuton (cushions traditionally used in meditation and for sitting in general) are very good for helping to develop good posture; the loft and angle of the cushions forces the spine into alignment, which
Re:Good posture is cheaper (Score:2)
Incorrect.
Developing good posture may alleviate YOUR need for an ergonomic chair like this. Please don't presume to know what my back problems are caused by, and how they can be fixed.
aeron and a ball. (Score:3, Informative)
I promise you this. You can't go to a chair store and try each one out. You don't know if you like a chair until you've spent a week sitting on it all day long.
Get specialist help (Score:1, Informative)
To answer the question: "Do Ergonomic Chairs Really Work?" - hmmmm, yes, but only as one component of a broader approach to your ergonomic situation. They are not a fix-all.
I have recently become more aware of 'gradual onset' RSI in my right forearm, regardless of the fact that I've been using ergonomic keyboards for over a decade (which of course points to a bad mouse - 5 mins of normal mousing = sharp pains, 3m ergonomic mouse = 8 hours straight no problems.) Now that I am taking regular breaks, getti
Needed: "The USEFULLY Ergonomic Office Chair" (Score:2)
why not get something that encourages the body to DO SOMETHING positive, even while
working, eg, at a computer terminal...
A chair that lets one place the feet on some bicycle pedals (or the like),
coupled to an auto alternator... enabling the user to generate electricity
while the mind & hands are doing other work.
Such chairs may exist [eg, one costing over Au $10,000, last time we checked]
has the peddles... apparently combin
Short answer... (Score:1)
Accumulated wisdom (Score:2)
Out of bo
Do chairs work at all? (Score:1)
So in summary... (Score:2)
1) Every person is different. Therefore every solution will be different. This cannot be emphasised strongly enough! What works for some people won't work for others. A perfect chair that doesn't fit you won't help; a perfect chair tha
manuals (Score:2)
mark
20 Keyboard Years & a Drafting Table (Score:2)
It allows sit on the chair mode, one leg on the floor or two, or stand up, and thus gives a lot of different positions to use during a day.
As others have noted, I found I needed to specifically keep my excersize up and chose both moderate speed walking and rowing to keep everything else greased up. Just don't overdo the rowing effort, as you can easily put too much load on your back, without realiz
It's a combination of factors (Score:2)
Aeron (Score:2)
Think about it, you spend hours every day sitting in a chair, might as well make it a pimped out one. It's comfy and it breaths, and because it's a mesh instead of cloth, it doesn't "remember your farts" or stain like cloth chairs.
My thoughts (Score:2)
2. I suspect that desk height is the major problem, and an adjustable chair may not help. If you desk is the wrong height, you may be able to adjust your chair so your arms are in the right position, but your legs won't be.
3. Along with desk height, desk thickness is a pr
Sit on a ball (Score:2)
The main benefits are that you are continually moving and flexing your abdominal muscles which helps maintain the lower back alignment. The other benefit for those who change locations regularly like myself (a contractor) is that it simply deflates and goes into your backpack at the end of one job and can be quickly
YES! Aeron chairs truly work (Score:2)
I have an Aeron chair and can safely say I never feel uncomfortable. As others have said, I also exercise and maintain a decent weight (ok, so I could lose 20lbs.).
In comparison, when I visit the home office and sit in "generic" chairs in conference rooms, I get uncomforta
Go for the exercise ball (Score:2)