Sony May Try To Stop PS3 Game Resales 423
Next Generation reports on Sony's hopes that it will be able to prevent the resale of PS3 games. The article argues that it is unlikely they'll succeed in this goal. From the article: "One expert in retail law told Next-Gen.Biz, 'Sony can theoretically sell a license to play the game, but the user would have to acknowledge acceptance of the license. You've seen this when you install software on a PC. I'm not sure that the license agreement is enforceable if the licensee doesn't agree to it. Also, even if the agreement is enforceable, it's hard to preclude subsequent sale of the disc. The consumer could theoretically agree that he doesn't own the right to transfer his license, but why couldn't he sell the medium that held the license (the disc)? Sony can't enforce the agreement against a third party, as it lacks privity with the third party.'"
I lost count (Score:5, Insightful)
Video games... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Video games... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I lost count (Score:5, Insightful)
1- installed a root kit on my In-laws machine through a Neil Diamond CD
2- increased the price dramatically
3- announced that they would like to uni-laterally revoke my right to resell items I purchase.
4- generally bone headed their way through every press conference they have had without apologizing directly for any of their bad behavior.
so I don't have an exact count of reasons, but I know the sum == enough.
Re:I lost count (Score:5, Informative)
They did? When?
(hint: never. This is an anonymously-sourced story, which Sony denied the first time it came up... two years ago)
Re:I lost count (Score:3, Interesting)
Even though New Zealand doesn't yet have these rights explicitly defined as fair use, it still came across as somewhat hypocritical from a company pushing their VCR players, mp3 players, minidisc players and computers in our national market.
So..
Re:I lost count (Score:5, Insightful)
They must expect to win big (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Most people don't know
2) Many who know will forget in less than a year
3) Some
Re:I lost count (Score:5, Funny)
The rootkit I can tolerate; we all have the occasional judgment lapse, right? But making your in-laws buy Neil Diamond... that, well, some things you just can't condone.
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, yeah, your in-laws. That's kind of like those old "My friend" stories...
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I lost count (Score:3, Insightful)
It's "My friend" class 2 - when you wouldn't even admit to being friends with someone with a Neil Diamond CD. Remember, you can choose your friends but not your relatives (or I guess you could technically choose your in-laws, but it's sort of a package deal).
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Funny)
Won't Be First In Line (Score:2)
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Funny)
The sad thing is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Long live great games (regardless of the console) and competition (because it benefits us).
Re:The sad thing is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if the PS3 turns out to greatly overpower the XBox 360 (which I doubt), the graphics of either system are limited by the time and artistic resources of the companies that develop the games. Most developers are going to make the most money be releasing a game on both systems. Given the already massive cost of developing 3D artwork, they will most likely design the game for the weaker one, and just up the poly and particle count o
Re:I lost count (Score:2)
This probably isn't going to stop anything...
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Interesting)
hahahhahahahahahahaaaaa yeah right, Sony went to the trouble of implementing DRM and restrictions just so they could NOT use them. seems like YOU need to grow up and get a grip on reality. it has been admitted that the only reason the token will not be used ON LAUNCH TITLES is to help with adoption. once market share has been gained they will go back on their word so fast even we-promise-prices-will-come-down-CD-manufacturers
Re:I lost count (Score:3, Informative)
No, the Movie industry AS A WHOLE developed this idea - which both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD support.
What has happened is that they guys actually building consumer products realised there are something like eighteen people on the entire planet who even HAVE HDMI ready stuff. So potential sales would have been in the tens rather than tens of millions if products actually supported it -
Re:I lost count (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, and Nintendo (or Microsoft) would neeever build a hype campaign...
Re:I lost count (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't that kind of like saying "I didn't kill the guy. It was the bullet's fault."
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I lost count (Score:5, Insightful)
Do not purchase second hand products (I prefer the artist, producers and manufacturers to be paid for my purchases)
Um, why? It isn't like secondhand goods are black market - Sony already got paid the first time, and trading used goods is a good way to save money. Why are you so intent in giving Sony your money?
Re:I lost count (Score:3, Insightful)
Most people do not consider reselling a used DVD as immoral.
DVDs are a product.
But on the other hand most people would consider reusing (with or without reselling) a movie theater ticket to get into a movie twice would be immoral.
Movie theatres are a service.
When purchasing a used product, you are, in most cases, receiving the benifit of the product without any compensation given to the people who worked hard to produce the product.
Why is that? They don't work any harder, and they don't actually
Re:I lost count (Score:4, Insightful)
Scenario 1: Person (a) buys a photograph from me for $100. Five years from now, he sells it to person (b) for $100, who also keeps it for five years.
Scenario 2: Person (c) buys a photograph from me for $100 and keeps it for ten years.
At the end of these ten years, in both scenarios there has been a net transaction value of $100. All $100 of this is in my pocket. Also in both scenarios, only one of my photographs has left my hands (I did not lose a second photograph when the first was sold, nor did a second come into being). In both scenarios my photograph has gotten ten years of use. The only difference is that in the first scenario this use was split between two people, whereas in the second it was a single person. So how is this anything like theft? The only way I lose out is if person (a) sells to person (b) for a (inflation-adjusted) profit. But this is generally unlikely during an artist's lifetime, and would basically never happen with mass-produced works such as CDs, DVDs, and games.
You may argue that person (a) selling to person (b) cost me a sale because person (b) did not buy directly from me. But maybe I raised my prices when person (b) decided to buy, and he didn't like my higher prices. Maybe person (a) actually sold it for a loss, and person (b) was unwilling to pay the full $100. There are a number of reasons why person (b) may never have been a potential sale. Further, person (a) may not have been willing to buy in the first place if there was no secondary market.
The only way you could argue it's theft is if the original purchaser has gotten "full use" out of a work. But it is impossible to get full use out of an item that has "unlimited usage", as you put it. Say I buy a DVD, for example. I watch it 100 times. I watch it so many times I don't think I could ever watch it again. Have I gotten full use out of it? No, of course not - I could change my mind and watch it 100 more times. Or I could sell it after those initial 100 screenings, and the purchaser could watch it 100 times. Either way, the DVD is getting watched 200 times. The copyright owners didn't lose out by having the secondary purchaser watch it 100 times any more than they lost out by me watching it 100 more times.
Really what this sounds like, though, is a thinly-veiled desire to do away with "unlimited usage" items entirely and, for example, make DVDs self-destruct after x number of viewings. Because, you know, me getting 400 hours of enjoyment out of a $15 DVD just HAS to be theft.
How to fail (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How to fail (Score:2)
Of course Atari made money off the hardware.
Re:How to fail (Score:3, Funny)
As they say "practice makes perfect". Sony really seems to have their own foot squarly in their sights.
Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
Do you really hate your customers *that* much?
Truth be told, I am really, really hoping that they try to do this. The consumer backlash and probably subsequent lawsuits over everything from eBay sales to EB Games/Gamestop sales will provide lots of ripe discussion material on
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
If true, such a move would be a massive boost for publishers and developers which do not profit from the lucrative and damaging retail trade in used games. In fact, many publishers are furious that they have to spend support money on consumers who have not actually contributed a dime to the company's coffers.
The secondary market adds value for the consumer. The average consumer will be more likely to buy a new re
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
Maybe they should go with the strategy that IBM figured out like 50 years ago, and stop tying software support to sales.
If the $60 price tag for a shrinkwrapped game includes customer support for a fixed period of X years, it doesn't matter whether that game is owned by one person or 100 people over the course of those X years--as long as only one owner seeks suppo
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
Assuming anyone even buys one!! Can you imagine much of a second hand market if there isnt even much of a first-hand one?
(duck and cover!!)
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
Copyright law should not be used to defend failed/failing business models.
Re:Wow, just wow. (Score:2)
I realize you're "just trying to explain what they're doing," but let's review that article once again. As your brother quotes from the article:
If true, such a move would be a massive boost for publishers and developers which do not profit from the lucrative and damaging retail trade in used games. In fact, many publishers are furious that they have to spend support money on consumers who have not actually contributed a dime to the company's coffers.
This might be a motivation to Sony. However, to thos
Sony's funny like that. (Score:5, Funny)
Sony thinks they're too good for us.
Another for the rumor bin... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Another for the rumor bin... (Score:2)
Re:Another for the rumor bin... (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares that it's "UK news sources, citing retail contacts" with no actual proof and an already previous denial by Sony? http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/159 [ps3focus.com]
Hating Microsoft is so last year. We hate Sony now and all references to them are now spelled "$ony". Didn't you get the memo?
Re:Another for the rumor bin... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd like to get ahead of the hate-curve now and say:
Wiiii Hate Nintendo. Curse you, $atoru Iwata!
This will probably come up quite a bit.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This will probably come up quite a bit.. (Score:2)
Re:This will probably come up quite a bit.. (Score:2)
If Sony really wants to kill the resale market what they need to do is to offer to buy back the games.
Re:Big difference (Score:2)
In practice, yes. But as far as the law goes, I'd be surprised if there were any distinction to be made.
Doctrine of First Sale basically says you may use a product you have bought until you don't want it anymore, at which case you may resell it. I can't see how it matters whether it takes you three months or three years to decide you don't
Re:This will probably come up quite a bit.. (Score:2)
Analogy (Score:3, Funny)
The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers ...
Re:Analogy (Score:2)
I felt a great disturbance in the store, as if millions of customers cried out and were suddenly silent.
Re:Analogy (Score:2)
Oh Sony... I pity you... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ka-BLAM. - The sound of Sony falling to dust.
Really, truly, why would Sony do this?
I mean, I heard rumours of something similar a while back. They were going to try and make a disc you buy to only be able to play on a single system. No more copying, no more renting, no more lending.
Hell, what happens to me when my PS3 goes the same way as my PS2 and I need to get a new one? Better yet, what happens when they release a new slimmer version and suddenly I'm not able to play anymore?
Mind you, this may not be the case with this new system of theirs, but why kill the second hand market like this? I can't remember the last time I bought a game brand new. Game Boy Advance and Game Cube both, nearly all my games are second hand copies. Why? Because not only are they cheaper, but because it's sometimes harder to find games new after they're released. Especially the rare gems.
On top of the fact that used games would be near impossible, what will they do for rentals? I'm certainly not going to go fork out $80 (CDN) for a new game that I've never tried. I want to go out and rent it, and if it is worth it, sure I'll pick up copy. "Greatest Hits" games hardly count, because they are simply cheaper because they've been out longer, and a few people liked them.
If they do this, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot. There won't be a PS3 in my place (mind you, the PS2 belongs to the finacee), and I guarantee there won't be one in many of the living rooms I know of.
Re:Oh Sony... I pity you... (Score:2)
Yes, rumors which Sony denied, and they disappeared. The same exact rumors are back around, in time for your weekly dose of FUD, and this time, you fell for it. Seriously, how would they do this? Between First Sale and the inability of minors to enter legally binding contracts, they couldn't make a game un-r
Re:Oh Sony... I pity you... (Score:2)
Now, if this is true (and a very bit "if"), the actual cost of the game will be the retail price. They will buy less.
Also, rentals bite the dust. There will be no way to evaluate demos, so people will buy less. Blockbuster will not buy any more -- sales will go down once again.
Now, about the only way that Sony could not totally piss of
Unlikely? (Score:2, Insightful)
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/08/playstation-3-wo nt-play-used-games/ [joystiq.com]
could it be true? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the article also points out how technological enforcement would be difficult, and how such a move would completely piss off both retailers and consumers.
I can't see Sony actually doing this, I really don't think it makes a lot of business sense. But then, I never thought they would charge $600 for a PS3.
Killing off the game rental market as well? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Killing off the game rental market as well? (Score:2)
Re:Killing off the game rental market as well? (Score:2)
Is that pair of questions a self-cotained commentary on the state of the game rental market in itself?
Sony releases "for rental" version of the game (Score:2)
Sad. But possible.
I know, I know... then it opens the door for piracy, hacking, etc.
Re:Killing off the game rental market as well? (Score:2)
They could sell the "normal" version of the game that requires online activation or phone activation and which will only run on a single machine (containing a specific hardware lock key) and sell that for $80 or somesuch...
and they could sell a different "rental" version of the game that can run on any machine... and that special rental version would cost like $300 or somesuch.
-
EULA (Score:2, Insightful)
Conversation among Sony execs (Score:5, Funny)
Exec 2: Prepare...the foot cannon!
Why can't sony do this? (Score:2)
What exactly is preventing sony from adopting the same business model? As long as they're up front about the fact it's not a sale, I don't see where this is legally questionable. Better not try to charge $50 per 'rental' though. I'm pretty sure people wouldn't be so happy about that.
Re:Why can't sony do this? (Score:2)
Re:Why can't sony do this? (Score:2)
Re:Why can't sony do this? (Score:2)
Nothing prevents Sony from making you sign a contract before leaving the store with their product. However, anything short of that is a sale. Put another way, I don't care if I pick up a widget from the "Widget Rental" bin sitting under the "Rent Your Widgets Here!" sign at the "Rent-A-Widget Center". If I hand you cash and you hand me a receipt and a smile without me signing something, I just mad
Story based on nothing. (Score:5, Insightful)
But, hey, the new rules of gaming media are
Re:Story based on nothing. (Score:2)
But why let facts get in the way of some good entertainment? We have a good old-fashioned hate-fest going on here. Can't you just feel the waves of scorn?
Seriously, though. I doubt the article's accuracy too. But I can hope.
Easy workaround? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Easy workaround? (Score:2)
This idea is very old (Score:2)
the warnings were there. just like with this blu-ray downsampling BS.
Article Seems To Miss The Point (Score:2)
Re:Article Seems To Miss The Point (Score:2)
Mmmm (Score:2)
Offcourse Sony doesn't like the second hand trade. I own a PSP and recently bought two games for it. Both second hand from the dutch FreeRecordShop store. 12.50 was about all I was willing to spend for Midnight Club 3.
For that money it is a nice game. For full price (wich it still retails for) it is a piece of crap. The other Fired Up is a piece of crap at 12.50 but if I bought it at full price I would have been really upset. Now I can deal with it.
But offcourse
FUD against Sony (Score:3, Informative)
I don't feel like an anonymous guy repeating stuff heard from a UK retailer is something like a trusted source. Sounds more like Microsoft try to kill the PS3 beast before it's awaken...
Ding! (Score:2)
Absolutely correct. With First Sale Doctrine, inability of minors to sign contracts, the highly lucrative accessories market owned by Gamestop and others who sell used games, etc., there's no way this is true.
Irrelevant (Score:2)
Sue a kid over a non-enforcable contract? Right. What is sony going to do, make a parent press "yes" to play the game so it is enforcable? While it might be a nice move to discourage GTA lawsuits
Re:Irrelevant (Score:2)
Re:Irrelevant (Score:3, Insightful)
The story is about technological tieing of the software to the hardware. So, if this was true at all, the person likely to sue would be the person to who
This just in.. (Score:3, Funny)
Along with a clause disallowing secondhand sale of the game, the EULA will debut the new "no-landfill" clause.
Would prevent rentals, too (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah, just how stupid can Sony be? I'm reminded of that old Einstein quote about how only two things were infinite--the universe, and human stupidity--and he wasn't sure about the first one of those.
wow... (Score:2)
Remember, in relation to a $600 console a $60 game is "still pretty cheap".
Have some sympathy here, they're just trying to eek out a modest living with what technology they can scrap together... right?
I would try to give an analogy here, but every one that easily comes to mind involves things that I think would get me banned or that only happen to people in prison related stories on Fark.
More FUD from the anti-Sony cabal (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear Sony: (Score:5, Funny)
You need to stop pulling the trigger on that gun pointed at your foot. You've burned through the entire magazine, and it's time to reload.
Economics will kill this idea (Score:2)
If they budget $150, that can be 2 x 75$ new games, or 5 x $30 games, etc.
If the can sell games, they can buy 2 x $75 new, sell both for 2 x $30, and buy another new game for $60. All adds up to $150.
Not allowing resales will reduce the number of new games sold, and definitely kill any future PS3 to PS4 upgrades as no one will buy old consoles without games. Sony will have to cut prices if it wants to sell more games. It will also erode the PS
I'm REALLY looking forward . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
With all the bloody restrictions they should be paying me to take the damn thing.
Seriously; wasn't that the "promise" of all these locked down DRM systems? Hardware free, software as a service, copy protection means that companies can easily recoup their investment.
I couldn't imagine _ever_ buying one of these. It would _really_ have to blow me away.
Online games... (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably a dupe and possible rumor spreading again (Score:2, Informative)
Dated November 2005 - Rumor: PlayStation 3s won't play borrowed, used, or rented games [gamespot.com] - SCEE PR manger Jennie Kong blasted the rumor as " false speculation." "PlayStation 3 software will not be copy protected
Wow, they're asking for it (Score:2)
I'm beginning to think they're relying too much on their reputation now. When the 360 came out, I thought I'd just wait for the PS3 since I loved the PS2/PSOne so much
but now.... I think I'm gonna jump on the Wii bandwagon or possibly the 360.
The original article (Score:3, Informative)
Sony to make it illegal to sell second hand PS3 games [itvibe.com]
Here's a quote from the end of the article:
Go for it. (Score:2)
Used games are about the only majorly profitable area for places like EB/Gamestop. So this move will only help push away customers and retailers. This is a sinking ship, and FTR about a year ago at this time when I jumped ship from working with Sony and claimed that they were going downhill quick and ev
How to Make Your Company The Most Hated (Score:5, Insightful)
Rental Market (Score:3, Interesting)
If Sony wants to cut out the rental market, the try before you buy approach wouldn't work. More people would tend to wait for magazine reviews instead of buying the game on impulse. If you can't try it yourself, and you can't resell it if you get bored with it, who's gonna pay $60 for video games unless they're truly AAA titles with exremely high ratings?
GamesRadar again... (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/articl
I know it's probably totally unreasonable to ask Slashdot to "consider the source" but GamesRadar has a reputation of inaccuray and sensationalism.
Game specialty stores still account for over 25% of US sales of video games, systems and accessories. They are also successful in large part because of used games. This move would essentially hamstring them and either lead to them dropping Sony product from their stores or just going out of business.
CmdrTaco (Score:5, Funny)
Does every new site need a FUD officer these days?
This is a lie (Score:4, Insightful)
The story is a lie. Clearly Slashdot editors hate Sony enough that any slander they come across is promoted immediately to a top level article.
Re:I don't buy it, but... (Score:2)
Re:Shhh! (Score:2)