Cell Phone Tracking In the UK 141
jvlb writes "The BBC reports on cell phone tracking systems now available in Britain. The correspondent addresses the privacy and security issues that ensue." From the article: "With more and more children owning mobile phones, special attention needs to be given to who can track them. If you are not a genuine parent or guardian, the code requires location services to check that both the tracker and the person being tracked can prove they are consenting adults. Mr Macleod says: 'The person that is to be located has to demonstrate to the service provider they are at least 16 years old.'"
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
Beside that, I am pretty much sure tracking of any citizen can be done by authorities if needed. And this technology is there for a while and had not been made publicly available before. So, if you fear BB, it's just too late!
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
You barely need the phone for 5mn to setup the tracking, a guy has already used it to track his girlfriend.
He told his gf what he was going to do and got authorization, but basically everything that's required is to get sole access to the switched-on phone for 5 minutes: setup the tracking, receive SMS, delete SMS, you're done, the owner of the phone is tracked without his knowledge. With this kind of "requirements", you can setup a tracking for quite a large number of people...
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
BTW, could it be cancelled easily as it can be setup?
It should and it circumvent completely this kind of problem, since you can always cancel your authorization, anytime and in less than 5 minutes.
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
Cancellation would not solve this problem. You are kind of missing the point. The journalist that the GP is referrering to showed how easy it is to set up tracking on somebody elses phone. Once setup there is *no* indication that the service is active. Thus you wouldn't know to cancel it, or who with.
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
Most cells don't have password protection once they're turned off. And it's not "don't let someone else use it", it's "don't let anyone use it", not your friend, not your girlfriend, not your parents, no one.
If you dismiss the fact that you don't even know you're being tracked (and therefore wouldn't have the idea to cancel your tracking), then yes.
Re:Brilliant! (Score:1)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
The copy of 2600 [2600.org] sitting in front of me (22.4) has an article called "How to track any UK GSM phone (without the user's consent)".
In a nutshell, it involves using an online number spoofing service to OK the request for tracking. So much for the agreement bit....
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
> into an agreement to setup the system?
No you don't - you simply need both parties' PHONES. Big difference. Who doesn't have access to their wifes/girlfriends/child's phone for the purposes of sending the "ok to track me" text message?
A decent system should tell the tracked user that they are being tracked (and by whom) each time their position is requested by the tracking party.
www.theregister.co.uk (Score:2)
16 years old (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:16 years old (Score:2)
Re:16 years old (Score:2)
Easy, offer a 'free' music video download to their phone and see how quickly they trade their privacy.
Re:16 years old (Score:1)
Re:16 years old (Score:1)
Re:16 years old (Score:2)
Or, for an XX year old, "Sign here or you're fired!" Really sounds great.
Re:16 years old (Score:1)
But me, haha, I can completely identify with that. Your statement describes the last 8 years of my employment.
Re:16 years old (Score:2)
Re:Modded Interesting? (Score:2)
Once the technology is in place, what exactly prevents policy change? Policy is such a fragile thing...
Gotta Love The British... (Score:2)
Re:Gotta Love The British... (Score:2)
Re:Gotta Love The British... (Score:1)
Are you suggesting George Bush is related to King Cnut [mnsu.edu]? "Crowned in the turmoil of war and conquest, Cnut quickly established an era of peace and prosperity."
Should we do it just because we can? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think potential for abuse, in this case, outweighs whatever good may come from this. Please, kill this market by not using their service. Please.
Re:Should we do it just because we can? (Score:1)
Interestingly, this tracks the phone, not the owner. Subtle but key difference.
The only times I can see this coming in useful is when the mobile has been stolen - something all too common in urban and suburban UK. What with a mobile phone and an iPod, it isn't unusual for a 14 or 15 year old kid to be carrying £200-£300 worth of gear in their p
Re:Should we do it just because we can? (Score:2, Interesting)
The abuse will come from people who are connected to the people who care and maintain the infrastructure for this. In short, more than enabling the trouncing
Re:Should we do it just because we can? (Score:1)
I'm sure a lot of parents will opt for it. Those who don't trust their children to tell them where they are really going or think that there's a child killer on every corner. Even then, it's not a very perfect system. A kid will just leave the phone at their mates while they go off to try and get into a pub.
LBS - Location Based Services (Score:1, Interesting)
In Norway they are using assisted GPS (GPS on mobiles with data / maps coming over GPRS or 3G) and can provide directions to your nearest doctor or supermarket or whatever right down to 10 metre a
Consenting Adults? (Score:1)
"Hello, operator? My buddy Jim is late, and I'm a bit worried about him, can you track him down for me?"
"Certainly sir, just a moment."
Calls Jim's phone
"Hello, Jim? This is the operator, someone wants to track you. We need your concent and proof you're over 16 years of age."
"AHHHHHHH! AAHHHHHH! I'm trapped under my car! It flipped on the highway, and now I'm jammed! Help me! AHHHH!"
Re:Consenting Adults? (Score:2, Funny)
Jim is in a burning car, with a working mobile, yet he never bothered to phone the 999 and get some help? Dumb noobs like him are the kind that troll on slashdot, let him burn!
Does it work in rural areas? This could be awesome for stuff like people lost in mountains etc
As for agreeing, have a clause where you agree that person X can override this right. Hell if i fell down a hole and couldn't speak, i wouldn't care if my mum agreed on my behalf to have me found via my mobile.
Re:Consenting Adults? (Score:2)
Re:Consenting Adults? (Score:1)
Re:Consenting Adults? (Score:1)
Should this become more of a problem than it already is, I hope the people are charged for the rescue so that the parks can spend more of their meager budgets on keeping the parks in good shape and not saving the guy who didn't take water, food and a map with him.
Re:Consenting Adults? (Score:2)
Works well (Score:1)
Re:Works well (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up (Score:1)
You just admitted failure as a parent. (Score:2)
One thing; when I was at U, I was attacked by a psychopath with a knife while on college premises. Location services are about making money, and they therefore seek to induce the paranoia that causes peopl
Old news... (Score:4, Informative)
This is such old news, it was initially worked over by The Guardian [guardian.co.uk] at the start of the month, and it even got picked up by Slashdot [slashdot.org]. But it was old news even then, you've been able to do this sort of thing for years. I've talked about it a lot [babilim.co.uk] in my blog...
Al.Re:Old news... (Score:2)
As for abuse... well, lets say that during testing, my location was repeatedly looked up whilst I travelled between the customer and my office, by my colleagues, so it is very easy. in fact, they had to add a audit trail to the lookups so that callcentre staff would stop looking up their boyfriend's (or whoever)
Re:Old news... (Score:1)
SIM card swap (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:SIM card swap (Score:1)
thats only on one phone service. other phone services are ok in the area.
even in large buildings there are mini masts located in shop signs that handle gsm calls.
parents would be worried that children would be i
Re:SIM card swap (Score:1)
Re:SIM card swap (Score:3, Informative)
We can still track them at IMEI (phone serial number) level.
Re:SIM card swap (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:SIM card swap (Score:2)
Re:SIM card swap (Score:2)
Re:SIM card swap (Score:2)
Old news (Score:1)
Re:Old news (Score:1)
The serveillence society (Score:3, Insightful)
Now consider this: in Texas, there is a plan afoot -- already approved by the legislature -- to turn over 6000 miles of preexisting roads to a foreign Spanish company so that the company can charge tolls on those roads. Drivers will be required to have an RFID tag in their car with will allow their movements to be tracked and cataloged that company (and the state will have access to that information, see http://www.austintollparty.com/ [austintollparty.com]). This is not just confined to Texas, there are similar plans in many other states.
The question has to be asked: why is there is this massive push for the governement to know where we are all of the time and have the ability to listen to us. This may just be the insipiant footprint of a police state.
Re:The serveillence society (Score:2)
Re:The serveillence society (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The serveillence society (Score:1)
Re:The serveillence society (Score:2)
Learn to spell, learn how to form a coherent argument, *then* share your wisdom with the world.
Re:The serveillence society (Score:1)
qz
Re:Who sold you those guns? (Score:2)
Sorry to contradict, but the right to bear arms has as much to do with the defense of the citizenry from our own government as defending the country from any external aggressor. It was to p
Re:The serveillence society (Score:2)
Re:Stop whining... (Score:2)
The battle between functionality and privacy. (Score:3, Interesting)
On the flip side, as we all know, are the privacy issues that stem from this. And, in this day and age I'm certain that there is a lot of room for abuse. The author of the BBC article certainly proved this to be the case. Is is really ever possible to achieve this hypothetical solution where only those who consent to being tracked are tracked?
The BBC author brings up another interesting point that I didn't think of before --the issue of tracking children or minors. For some reason I always assumed that the greatest benefit from this technology would be to track your children and perhaps even keep tabs on whether or not they are visiting "forbidden" areas. Obviously this is not the case as children cannot legally consent to being tracked! So what about that GPS tracking collar thing? How do the children consent there?
The battle between functionality and privacy continues in full force. I'm sure that we'd all like the CONVENIENCE of RFID, biometric scanners, wireless credit cards, wireless passports, etc... but at what price and at what risk to our privacy? Certainly large governments will be the major players behind such schemes. Who knows... for a while privacy rights may be protected... but what about the future? Since the technologies are there then the room for abuse is also there....
Some food for thought.
Matt Wong
http://www.themindofmatthew.com [themindofmatthew.com]
Re:The battle between functionality and privacy. (Score:1)
You're on to something (Score:2)
What if your location information went out only to people on your IM buddy list, as part of your presence information? How useful would it be to scroll through a list and see that Kathleen is Not Busy, @ laundromat next to Caligula Pizza, Current Mood Hungry?
Consenting Adults. (Score:2)
Oh, how nice of them to keep their toys to themselves. I doubt that people wanting cell service are asked for their consent when the phone company or government agent tracks them. Tracking is creepy and not something customers are demanding. Code should require the phone companies to provide phones that can not be routinely tracked. Instead, the price of modern convenien
Re:Consenting Adults. (Score:2)
Re:Consenting Adults. (Score:2)
Yes to a few yards. The only way to make a cell phone that is untrackable is to turn it off.
I'm told that does not work. If you really don't want to be tracked you have leave it behind.
Re:Consenting Adults at 16? (Score:1)
Re:Consenting Adults at 16? (Score:1)
Covered and hacked in "2600" mag this quarter (Score:2)
Deeply dodgy, and were I to be of a paranoid nature, I would definitely be carrying my cellphone switched off.
Old stuff (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Old stuff (Score:1)
Re:Old stuff (Score:1)
Guardian Story (Score:1)
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,16
But still, scary stuff.
Mobile security: none (Score:2)
It is not well-known that the same holds for reverse billing text messages ("premium SMS"); anyone can sign up to send these unsolicitedly.
For example, you can write a short (less than 50 lines) bash script send-50p.sh that takes a mobile phone number and reverse-charges the receipient 50 pence (or, in fact anything up to 5 pounds per message) by sending them e.g. an empty (" ") text message - an
Years old, but still cool. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's scary. I think a lot of people would abuse it given half a chance.
You can sign up for developer accounts with most phone networks in the UK - but the queries are expensive. 10p each with a minimum of 5000 per month - that sort of thing.
Oh dear...pedophiles will have a field day with it (Score:2)
Right... (Score:1)
There can be only one (Score:1)
Let's break this down, once and for all (Score:4, Insightful)
GPS or other tracking is BAD. I won't buy a new cell phone made after 2004 because they have government mandated GPS trackers built in, whether you want it or not. Software controlled shutoffs are garbage; the phone company can switch it back on if they so desire, probably without letting you know, at the request of any figure of authority.
Give me at least a phone where the GPS is a physical module that I can depower or remove. Anything else is a little government/corporate/anybody-who-cares-to spying machine.
As for kidnappers and, oh god, here we go, pedophiles: um, they'd throw the phone in a metal box or down a sewer or onto a freight train bound for Toronto.
Tracking people on cellphones should be done only with the permission of the user. Anything else is just police state horse manure.
I am beginning to realize that my generation, which grew up with an expectation of privacy and dignity, is not explaining the problem to newer generations which grew up in schools with dogs searching their lockers, with strip searches, metal detectors, ID badges, probably anal cavity searches done at will on their persons for no damned reason at all. I've only recently paid attention to how differently most of you view civil liberties, given that you never experienced them. Your gestalt acquiesance to the police state that you poor sods schooled under and then work for is genuinely shocking to me.
I'm saying that you have no problems with being prisoners under a warden 'cause you were brought up that way, "for your safety". It is the fault of decades of parents becoming WAAAAAAYY too overprotective and fearful of bogeymen.
You don't need to be tracked, unless you want to be. You shouldn't be required to be tracked to work for a living. The magic word is "no". Remember the magic word. Teach it to your children in turn.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November.
1984 is in the past (Score:2)
I guess I was wrong.
I remember the police chief in Houston just a couple days ago putting monitoring cameras up all over and saying "If you don't have anything to hide, then you don't have anything to worry about." Quote from 1984, but simply used in the opposite direction.
Of course, Britain already *has* cameras all over, so I guess tracking is just the next logical extension. They'r
Ah, but good news about a movie about freedom! V. (Score:2)
What a weird coincidence. Remember my closing line?
"Remember, remember, the 5th of November"
to finish:
"The gunpowder treason and plot;
I know of no reason,
why the gunpowder treason,
should ever be forgot."
It's the English ditty commemorating the attempted bombing of Parliment by Guy Fawkes. I quoted it because it is the tag line of "V for Vendetta", a pop movie coming out in the middle of this month.
If
When it comes down to it.. (Score:1)
Of course, technology and the whole security thing isn't going to sort this mess out, so we'll have to take action into our own hands.
This means changing your sim for example, of course - once this exploit gets down to a nifty little illegal pc app to allow you to track any number you want, many people will have access to it and privacy will just go down the drain.
I for one, will change my sim if they don't secure this, c
What if you don't care? (Score:1)
I'd even write an interface to the system, that allowed my website to update automatically, and when someone visited, it would say "where am I?" and show a map of where I was at the time, perhaps even overlayed on google maps.
All people are going to see is that I am at home, or at work, the addresses of both they could find without too much issue, or I'm on the road travelling somewhere.
I don't see what the big deal is, if someone wants to
George Orwell fell short (Score:1)
On the propaganda side, not only there's a "telescreen", but it isn't needed to force people to watch it: They're stupid enough to watch it even if they're not forced to do so. Not only that, but for the greatest part of the society, life is completelly centered around TV. When people return from work, most of the times worktime and conmuting adding up more than half their time awake, and pay being of course pathetic, they do so in the cars TV shown them
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:2)
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:2)
And what does being 16 years old have to do with it? I know one fully grown woman (30s) who had an abusive B-friend who would have jumped at the chance to be able to track her whereabouts 24/7.
Thankfully she's now broken up with him, but I figure that he would have had no problem with the idea of tracking her down at work and making a public scene ... just for the fun
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:2)
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:2)
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:1)
If employers are taking employees, then perhaps it should be brought home 1-2 times a week. Then your boss will be really really impressed when he finds you spent 110 hours last week in the office.... (Or he might be pissed as to why you didn't accomplish 3x as much as a regular 40hr/week person).
Turning it off is sufficient. (Score:2)
It doesn't communicate with base stations at all since to do so
would waste the battery which would defeat the whole point of
it being off!
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:1)
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:2)
Re:No big deal, and in the end it will save lives. (Score:1)
Re:If the phone is off (Score:1)
Re:If the phone is off (Score:2)
I've tried a tracking service and it got my location down to about 200 yards. Was quite impressed.
Re:i forght for these rights! (Score:1)
Re:i forght for these rights! (Score:1)
Dude:You should not be here. This is slashdot. Please go here. [microsoft.com]
Re:abusing 'for protection of children' motive (Score:2)