Keeping the OS/2 Flame Alive 316
nanday writes "Ever wondered what happened to OS/2? With IBM officially abandoning the operating system last year, users are relying on a third party version of OS/2 -- and, increasingly, using free and open source software to keep
it alive." From the article: "According to Haverblad, the main reason that users stay with OS/2 is for 'features that Windows and Linux don't have yet.' He singles out the REstructured eXtended eXecutor (REXX), an interpreted programming language known for its ease of use, a 'rock solid kernel,' 'excellent multitasking,' and low system requirements. Haverblad also claims a lack of viruses and spyware and, referencing a report on OS/2 Warp Server by Secunia, fewer security vulnerabilities." Newsforge is also an OSTG site.
REXX was also available for Amiga...and others... (Score:5, Informative)
REXX was also available for Amiga...and others...
See: http://rexxla.org/Links/ [rexxla.org]
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:2)
REXX is a poor replacement for Perl.
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:2)
But an elegant replacement for BASIC!
Regardless, the golden years of REXX, and for that matter OS/2, have passed. The world has moved on, barring some pockets of legacy code here and there.
Mod parent too insightful... (Score:3, Funny)
*sniff* You speak of things I know all too well... It's a good thing you didn't talk about hacking your parent's cserve password to get into the Adults Only forum. Then I'd cry.
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:3, Informative)
...including Windows and Linux. (Score:3, Informative)
Pretty sure there's also a standalone REXX for Windows. I'll let somebody else do the Googling and leech the +1, Informative.
Re:...including Windows and Linux. (Score:2)
True, and you can even code ASP pages in Rexx if you're feeling bold and daring...
Re:...including Windows and Linux. (Score:2)
There is. My company builds a piece of software for OS/2 and Windows XPE. We use the same REXX script (written many moons ago) to compile it on both platforms.
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:5, Informative)
Another thing i liked a lot about OS/2 is the WPS, that maybe by now there are better desktops, but back then was wonderful, still waiting some of their features in modern desktops like KDE.
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, exactly what I was going to say [freshmeat.net].
Yes, and AppleScript is very tightly integrated with MacOS, giving it extra value (this coming from someone who doesn't like Macs, mind you). While GNU/Linux may "suffer" from not having a scripting language tied to everything in it, it benefits from the flexibility of having all languages be on
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:4, Informative)
Also, even non-OSA languages can use the "osascript" utility to execute an OSA script. I find AppleScript profoundly annoying, but it's not that difficult to write, say, a Ruby or an Expect script which does all of the heavy lifting in its native tongue and passes just what it has to via AppleScript.
Re:REXX was also available for Amiga...and others. (Score:2)
The problem is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The problem is... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The problem is... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The problem is... (Score:2)
I don't know how you could be. The reason I bit the bullet and gave up OS/2 Warp for Windown 95 ten-plus years ago was that the new releases of Netscape 2.x that web developers were starting to target didn't have native OS/2 versions, and the Windows 3.x binaries constantly crashed OS/2's Win16 subsystem.
Re:The problem is... (Score:5, Informative)
I still have a copy of Warp in the closet of old-school stuff. eBay baby.
Re:The problem is... (Score:2)
Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.9a1) Gecko/20060210 SeaMonkey/1.5a.
Re:The problem is... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The problem is... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The problem is... (Score:2)
Re:The problem is... (Score:3, Informative)
Pretty well all video cards are supported by scitech (only 2d though). Sound by a port of alsa, usb by IBM drivers and better HD support then most other systems
Only thing really missing is good wireless support
REXX support (Score:2)
Re:REXX support (Score:2, Informative)
Re:REXX support (Score:2)
As a scripting language, its great, as you dont have to bother about having special libs developed for it, you get all the OS interface you need from the shell.
When the vista environment comes out, I wont have to learn a new scripting language, just learn the few vista shell commands I need to get what i need done.
Its not so good for full application development, but its the ideal universal scripting language.
"REXX" with hooks on modern OS (Score:2)
On OS X AppleScript works much like REXX and lots of apps have hooks for it.
OS/2 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OS/2 (Score:2, Insightful)
You're joking right? OS/2 failed during a time when it was MORE likely that people using computers would understand them. Now, with OSs that nearly force you to NOT know about computers (by hiding everything behind purty graphics) people know even less about how their computers interact with the OS.
Just because more people can *use* computers doesn't mean that th
Re:OS/2 (Score:2)
Yeah, 'cause cars were so much better when everyone driving them needed to know how all about them rather than hiding everything behind purty dashboards. A computer is a tool and the simplest to use tool that completely accomplishes the job is the best one to use. I do not feel like going back to punch cards or flipping registers o
Let it go man! (Score:5, Funny)
I suppose there are people using the abacus too.
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Re:Let it go man! (Score:3, Interesting)
In fact, up till highschool you are not allowed to use any form of calculator; it's considered cheating. All calculation regarding trigonometry and logrithmics are to look up from tables. I am not kidding. I came out that education system and am very proud when I can do the calcuations witho
Security Problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus a complete OS that is secure?
If OS/2 was released OpenSource tomorrow and got popular you'd have it with the MOST security venerabilities by years end I guarantee it.
The ONLY reason OS/2
Re:Security Problems... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Security Problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, those Diebold machines that run Windows, on the other hand...I've seen screenshots of those things after a bluescreen, with the browser up, and the media player going. I'd bet there was a way to get them to spit out their complete internal cash supply. That's a good 250k, if it's full. Can you insert a buffer overflow on the back of an ATM card?
Re:Security Problems... (Score:4, Informative)
No way. I used to work for a bank, and the busiest machines carried $30k when full, and most of our machines carried less. The machines just aren't set up to hold 12,500 bills (about 25 pounds worth of currency), which is $250k in $20 bills. Plus, that amount of cash would be way too tempting for the sorts of idiots who might consider hooking up a tow truck or backhoe and just driving off with the thing.
Re:Security Problems... (Score:2, Funny)
Are you only considering the keypad and the card reader?
What about physical access to the phone line? (Lots of ATM's use a POTS line, and a previous workplace
Re:Security Problems... (Score:2)
Remember, most of the OS/2 codebase was developed by IBM, whose minicomputer and mainframe OSes have frequently been used in the most complex and secure computing systems, ever since computers went electric.
On the other hand, the rest of the codebase was developed by Microsoft in the late 1980s, so you're probably right.
Insightful? This is just fallacy after fallacy. (Score:3, Insightful)
Complexity and security are not oppposites. All modern operating systems are complex but they tend to have varying levels of security. Cryptography and fine-grained access control significantly increase complexity but also harden a system. In otherwords, complexity can make security weaker or stronger.
Given multiple produc
Re:Insightful? This is just fallacy after fallacy. (Score:2, Insightful)
All I really see from this statement is that you have no understanding of logic. That's not too much of a problem here on Slashdot - handwaving and misdirection seem to win most arguments I read on this site.
Note: I am not speaking to the assertions regarding vulnerabilities in any way. I am merely pointing out that the quoted statement has no value as the rebuttal it was intended to be.
Re:Insightful? This is just fallacy after fallacy. (Score:3, Insightful)
If an argument supports that a claim is true in general, the argument is shown to be invalid if an example to the contrary is found. Mind clarifying the mistake for my benefit?
viruses (Score:5, Informative)
um, having a lack of USERS tends to do that.
Re:viruses (Score:2)
Rock Solid Multitasking? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Rock Solid Multitasking? (Score:5, Informative)
It was fixed in 1996 with the release of version 4. Microsoft owns the copyright on PM, not IBM.
Enjoy,
Re:Rock Solid Multitasking? (Score:2)
Agreed, but it was MS that imposed that design decision, not IBM.
Re:Rock Solid Multitasking? (Score:3, Interesting)
REXX for Linux is available (Score:2, Informative)
REXX (Score:5, Insightful)
It was pretty handy for scripting, useful as "glue" between different things and all that.
By 1989 standards, mind you.
I think modern things (like AppleScript/Automator) can probably do everything REXX could ever do, and more, while being more readable to us humans.
Re:REXX (Score:2)
Obligatory Bill Gates Quote (Score:5, Informative)
-- Bill Gates, from "OS/2 Programmer's Guide" (forward by Bill Gates)
Re:Obligatory Bill Gates Quote (Score:2, Funny)
--Bill Gates, on or near the introduction of Windows 3.0.
Re:Obligatory Bill Gates Quote (Score:3, Informative)
Not really, nothing was borrowed or brought over from the OS/2-IBM project.
MS did create a lot of what the geeks see OS/2 2.0 as (the first 32 bit version) but the falling out between IBM and MS was that IBM would not support a 386 only version of OS/2, it had to run on the 286 platform.
However after Microsoft said, ok and took their toys and went home, IBM scrambled to assemble what MS had left, used what code share access they had with Micrsoft and came out wit
REXX is NOT unique to OS2 (Score:3, Insightful)
We have apps running in Object REXX on Windows.
Re:REXX is NOT unique to OS2 (Score:2, Insightful)
Look in the corner of that bank's machine room (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Look in the corner of that bank's machine room (Score:2)
Re:Look in the corner of that bank's machine room (Score:2)
OS/2 died on August 17, 1995 (Score:5, Informative)
Fond memories (Score:2)
Does anybody here have an ISO of the last version? I would love to spend some quality time poking around for old time's sake. (just send an email about it if you don't want to advertise having a copy to the world)
Floppies and Original Box - Sorry No ISOs or Docs (Score:2)
14 OS2/ Warp V3 Install floppies
4 OS2/ Warp V3 Display Driver floppies
3 OS2/ Warp V3 Printer Driver floppies
16 OS2/ Warp Bonus Pack floppies
1 OS2/ Warp Demonstration floppy
NOTE: Floppies are 3.5" 1.44MB.
Re:Fond memories (Score:3, Informative)
OS/2's unique advantages aren't, any more. (Score:2)
Good. But not unique. And a $259 price tag makes it considerably more expensive than Windows, Mac OS X or Linux.
So... for the people who don't want to run Windows, but want to use a PC, maybe a nice OS/2 emulation layer for Linux? Maybe IBM could donate the documentation and money necessary to sponsor a FOSS developer for a year or something.
While some OS/2 Peeps are browsing... (Score:2, Interesting)
My question is - does anyone know how I can make a perfect hard disc image that I can restore from if the Rickety 2Gb Segate in the box fails? Any advice greatly appreciated.
Jonny.
Re:While some OS/2 Peeps are browsing... (Score:2)
Take the drive and slave it on a Linux box. dd if=/dev/hda2 of=what-ever-image-you-want-to-call-it. If you have hpfs support in your kernel, you could mount it and copy the files that way (mount
Enjoy.
In an alternate timeline... (Score:3, Funny)
A terse reply (Score:5, Funny)
No.
eComstation and ObjectRexx (Score:2)
ObjectRexx [ibm.com] is also available for many platforms as noted above.
Re:eComstation and ObjectRexx (Score:2)
Claiming lack of virii due to quality of OS (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, honestly, no OS/2 virii? Is there any reason to target the 10 people out there still running OS/2 Warp with a virus?
While I will agree that good OS design will prevent the kind of zombie take over of a machine that allow viruses to propogate and activate without user intervention, I don't believe for a second that ANY OS is virus proof.
Virii are weapons of mass desctruction, that is, they want to have the greatest number of targets. An OS/2 virus, even if it had a 100% infection rate, would not make the news rounds, and might get a quick blurb on Slashdot. Virus writers are not going to waste time exploiting OS/2.
We have seen a virus launched against OSX recently, probably due to the higher profile Apple has been getting recently with their new Macintel machines. Before this, people assumed OSX was virus proof, but its just that it wouldn't make an impact to write an OSX virus unless the writer can claim some fame by having it affect the greatest number of people and be talked about in the news.
Also, when it comes to OS/2 having lower system requirements, it WAS written for computers designed about 15 years ago. I doubt OS/2 Warp server would be able to run or peform well with the typical client load that most servers today have to contend with. Email spam filtering alone can bring a modern server to its knees, I doubt OS/2 Warp Server would be able to function properly with 256mb of RAM, 10 gb hard drive space running on a Pentium class CPU even handling the email load a typical small business puts on today's servers.
Anyways, I don't believe that OS/2 has any better ability to fight off virii then any other OS, just that its been forgotten about except by those too cheap to upgrade to a new computer and OS.
Oh, OS/2 could get viruses all right... (Score:2)
I miss OS/2. Workplace Shell is a thing of beauty. I hope Voyager works out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Claiming lack of virii due to quality of OS (Score:2)
Second, I understand your point, but there is a very real reason why OS/2 could be a prime target. It runs over half of all the ATMS in North America. ATM's = money storage and bank access = Criminal interest.
"Also, when it comes to OS/2 having lower system requirements, it WAS written for computers designed about 15 years ago. I doubt OS/2 Warp server would be able to ru
Keeping the OS/2 Flame Alive (Score:5, Funny)
How's that for keeping a flame alive?
Joking... just joking...
ATM machines & OS/2 (Score:5, Informative)
Rexx programmer! (Score:3, Insightful)
OS/2 Lives! (Score:2, Interesting)
OS/2 is still alive and well... (Score:3, Informative)
(I know, the article is about IBM OS/2, not Microsoft's. Microsoft and IBM parted ways after version 1.3, with IBM working on version 2, while Microsoft focused on building a more ambitious version 3, which eventually became Windows NT version 3. The rest is history. But yes, Windows NT in its embryonic stages was originally supposed to be Microsoft OS/2 version 3. Windows NT could still use HPFS file systems and run OS/2 binaries until, I believe, Windows 2000. Not that there were a lot of killer apps out that used the OS/2 v1.x API, but you could actually still run them on NT 3 and NT 4)..
Re:OS/2 is still alive and well... (Score:3, Interesting)
So, as Mac OS X suceeded Mac OS 9, so did Microsoft Windows NT 3.0 succeed Microsoft OS/2 1.3. But at its incepti
Open Source OS/2 clone (Score:3, Informative)
Argh OS/2 Story... Must... Post... (Score:5, Interesting)
I ended up working for IBM doing OS/2 technical support after a couple of years. IBM really did have a highly rated support line despite the fact that out of all the people training with me, I was the only one who'd ever used the system. After about a year on the phones, they promoted me to electronic forum support, where I answered questions from users posting on CompuServe. Remember CompuServe? We had quite a presence there. I specialized in REXX and networking, although I would frequently hit the other forums as well.
I was also an advocate for the OS because it really did suck less than Windows. In fact, it sucked less than Windows right up until the Windows XP/ME timeframe. In many ways, the OS/2 interface is still superior to Windows. I attended a couple of COMDEXes with Team OS/2 and attended several local Team OS/2 events at ham fests and things like that.
At its peak, OS/2 had an estimated install base of 10,000,000 users despite the PCCO's refusal to pre-install the OS on systems for customers. We're all familiar with why they didn't -- Microsoft would revoke the volume discounts for any manufacturer preinstalling a competing OS on systems being sold. That was one of the nails in the OS/2 coffin. Others included the attitude in IBM that PCs weren't real machines and if you wanted a real OS you should be running AIX, the refusal of engineering to fix several really annoying little bugs, and several other factors as well. The two most annoying bugs were the tendency for the Workplace Shell to become corrupt (Binary registry files and all that...) and the single system input queue which would allow one application to hang the entire shell. Half-assed hacks were made to work around both problems, but they were half-assed and sucked.
Around 95, I saw the writing on the wall for OS/2 and downloaded a copy of slakware 1.0 off the Internet. I've been using Linux ever since then.
As for its advantages, REXX was an advantage over the DOS batch file language, but honestly what isn't? Perl, ruby and python all provide similar features and you're far more likely to find someone who knows how to write in one of those than in REXX. REXX was also quite limited, possibly even intentionally crippled, in what it was capable of doing. Interacting with the WPS and GUI components was always a pain in the ass, if not completely impossible. Network communications was impossible with the version of it that I used.
The OS/2 kernel WAS rock solid outside its third party drivers, and as far as I know no one ever managed to write a virus for it. The WPS was always the biggest draw but IMHO IBM ruined it after OS/2 2.0 or 2.1. It was hideous in Warp 3 and later. Gnome kind of looks like the WPS -- very similar object desktop concepts, and the WPS used an early version an object system similar to CORBA to provide access to desktop objects. I never really liked icons on my desktop to begin with, so I don't really miss it all that much.
Inside IBM most of the OS/2 people I knew switched to Linux after IBM killed the system. There might still be a few hold-outs lurking in the bowels of the company, but most of the stuff you need for t
Re:Argh OS/2 Story... Must... Post... (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the problems, as I said, was the IBM attitude of the time. PCs were still considered toys and no one in the company seemed to see the writing on the wall that in a matter of a few years those PCs would surpass a lot of the bigger iron that the c
nostalgia (Score:2)
Object Rexx has been opened sourced (Score:3, Informative)
cmon now.... (Score:2)
"Bury the dead, they stink up the place"
IBM support was SOOO uneven (Score:3, Insightful)
We could never understand why IBM could NEVER fix the single threaded IO queue no matter how many times we complained about it.
We could never understand why they never made an effort to improve or at least fix the fixpack process which could often as not leave you with a non operating system.
We could never understand why the desktop utilities were so incomplete that freeware or sharware like FM/2 were necessary.
We could never understand why we could get a bunch of APPC/APPM com tech support engineers on the phone but NO ONE inside the company was allowed to acknowledge the existence of Ethernet.
They did fix it on the unreleased PPC port.. (Score:2)
Which OS? (Score:2)
Are you sure this isn't a description of the Amiga OS?
I liked OS/2 (Score:4, Funny)
What OS/2 and AmigaOS taught me (Score:4, Insightful)
Been there, done that. Never again. I now use software that I am 100% certain will last forever. Linux may not be as fast as Amiga OS and KDE may not be as "nifty" as WPS (although it's actually getting pretty decent), but at least I don't have to worry about the future. Even the Microsofties aren't this safe.
LOW system requirements??? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:NT kernel (Score:2, Informative)
Re:NT kernel (Score:5, Interesting)
BTW, what's "unsolid" about the NT kernel itself?
Re:A worthy attempt but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A worthy attempt but... (Score:2)
Re:A worthy attempt but... (Score:2)
And then someone would probably have to adapt it to X (or
The rest of the O/S was great for what it was, but what it was, was designed in 1992.
Re:A worthy attempt but... (Score:2, Flamebait)
OS/2 Petition (Score:5, Informative)
There are apparently some legal issues -- the most frequently cited one is that IBM might not hold copyright to all the code, since the project was originally done in collaboration with Microsoft and Corel -- but the request is that IBM open up all of the code that it has available and can legally release, and note what parts it can't, so that they could be re-implemented.
I'm not sure it's ever going to happen, but it sure would be nice if it did.
SCO ? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Where can I get it? Virtual PC? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I thought OS/2 was history ... (Score:2)
Another OS is the last thing we need at this hour.
Many people said the same thing when something called "Linux" was first being released! "Who needs another OS?" "Geez.. how many Unix clones do we need?"
Yet, somehow, a small group of people perservered, and we have Linux today as an increasingly popular operating system.
It's all a matter of choice. They love their OS. They want to keep it going. Fine, more power to them! The more OSs, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned. I resent being