US Govt Makes Times New Roman 14 Official Font 811
pollux03 writes "According to ABC news, 'In an internal memorandum distributed on Wednesday, the department declared "Courier New 12" - the font and size decreed for US diplomatic documents for years - to be obsolete and unacceptable after February 1.
"In response to many requests and with a view to making our written work easier to read, we are moving to a new standard font: 'Times New Roman 14'," said the memorandum. ' The report goes on to cite a few exceptions to the rule including official telegraphs."
Exceptions (Score:5, Funny)
As those will all be done in the MS Comic Font.
Re:Exceptions (Score:5, Funny)
'Encrypted "Super Secret" communications will be done with Wingdings 16'
Re:Exceptions (Score:5, Funny)
This message is in violation of the DMCA for circumventing encryption techniques.
Re:Exceptions (Score:3, Funny)
rot13, twice (for good measure) !
Re:Exceptions (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Exceptions (Score:5, Funny)
Regular - Green
Limited Distribution - Blue
Post-It Notes - Yellow
Secret - Orange
Top Secret - Red
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:4, Interesting)
In any case, there are more visually pleasing fonts, and I see no reason why official documents should not look good. Some organisations use their own custom font, I would have thought that the US government could afford to pay for a real expert to come up with a good one, which might also be more readable by the visually challenged.
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:5, Insightful)
And just think of the endless committees, sub-committees, working groups, focus groups, font lobbyists, R and D, marketing and strategising people that were involved. There were probably millions spent on deciding whether they should go for the relaxed 12 point, or the more dynamic and assertive 'hell we're a superpower' 14 point approach.
I hear they're working on rebranding the bald eagle for the 21st Century, apparently the existing bird just isn't - well - [makes feeble hand gestures] swooping enough for today's time-poor, internet-rich, xboxed, click-to-continue, frappacino generation.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:3, Informative)
If you'll RTFA, you'll find "The new font 'takes up almost exactly the same area on the page as Courier New 12, while offering a crisper, cleaner, more modern look'". In fact, it takes slightly less paper, and anyone with half a brain can tell you it's a lot more readable. Add to that that it comes standard with Windows, and there's really no argument against it.
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:5, Informative)
Open a new Word (or other word processor of choice) document and paste in multiple pages of text and format it all as Courier New 12 pt. Print it out.
Now convert it all to Times New Roman 14 pt and print it out. How many pages compared to Courier? The same or less, I'll bet you find.
Courier New is a monospaced font, you can fit a fixed number of characters per line, whether they are all i's or m's.
Times New Roman is properly kerned so that you can fit more characters per line as each character takes up only as much space as it needs.
It sounds like 14 pt would take up more space, and if you stay within one typestyle you would be correct, but Courier New is not space efficient so you actually do gain back more space and make it easier to read large blocks of text.
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:3)
Oh no, you are completely missing the point. Without this standar
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, I was hoping for a nice font; calson, newspaper gothic, or somesuch. Or my personal favorite: bembo.
I think fonts are some of the most important and pervasive branding statements you can make: think of apple and their use of garamond condensed.
Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... (Score:5, Interesting)
> why official documents should not look good.
Yes, there are more pleasing fonts, but don't let untalented people come any where close to them. Give them Times New Roman and delete all the other fonts from their computers.
At my company, Futura [adobe.com] is our corporate branded sans serif, with New Century Schoolbook [adobe.com] used for serif work. However, only about 10% of the corporate population can deal with this. We've got people who produce hundreds of pages of Futura text (where its sans serif nature makes the document an eyestrain to read). We've got people who can't tell the difference between Futura, MS Comic Sans, and Arial. We've got people who will mix Futura and Times New Roman in the same freaking sentence. I once saw a marketing person (who should have known better) try to use Zapf Chancery [adobe.com] (an abomination) in all caps all over a presentation for a trade show, before he was smacked upside the head.
I can't imagine our Federal government is any better. So, if settling on Times New Roman is the way to prevent font atrocities, then so be it.
Sheesh. The only way I can keep from exploding like this at work is to read Kibo's pages [kibo.com] on this.
Not Garamond? (Score:5, Funny)
Times New Roman instead Garamond? What were those aesthetically clueless dingbats thinking?
That's it. I've completely lost faith in our government, and political processes in general. If they can't ascertain Garamond's clear superiority to TNR, well, they'll just have to impeached, that's all.
And sent for serious rehabilitation. And re-training, with those methods used for de-programming cult victims.
I mean, seriously, TNR over Garamond? I ask you...
Re:Not Garamond? (Score:5, Insightful)
William
Re:Not Garamond? (Score:4, Funny)
People have to *read* these documents! Subjecting them to the ugliness, the aesthetic horror, that is Times New Roman, is either depravity or at the very least, an incidence of putting pennies before dollars. What will the medical costs be of subjecting the world to Times New Roman simply to save a few cents in producing government documents?
This is an outrage, I tell you! Think of the children!
Re:Not Garamond? (Score:3, Funny)
I don't think people even bother to read LaTeX'd documents, they're so beautiful that you just look at it and drool.
(For a while I had the window titles and mozilla using CM, but it's HEAVILY optimized for print, so I stopped using it for that)
Re:Not Garamond? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why anyone uses anything besides LaTeX to prepare documents is beyond me. Complete control of glyph composition; astoundingly beautiful and readable styles; PostScript rendering; BibTeX: it's truly the most magnificent thing going.
Re:Not Garamond? (Score:3, Funny)
I blame the French. If only Bill had renamed Garamond to something less French sounding, "George" maybe, or "W", then you *know* it would be the standard font.
It's the simple tactic of putting putting petty international rivalries over self-interest, over simple aesthetic need, that we see time and time again from this government.
I'm sick it, sick of it I say.
Oh god, Times New Roman... I just... I can't...
ARRRRRGGGGHHHH!
(slurping sounds of a man being sucked inot an evil vortex...)
One thing that they forgot to mention... (Score:5, Funny)
i was ahead of my time, when i worked for DoD!! (Score:5, Interesting)
this is pretty amazing. back 13 years ago in 1991 i was working for the Army Materiel Command Headquarters and i repeatedly got a "talking to" from my bosses for using Times instead of Courier in official correspondence to other departments. i then went to the head of AMC HQ and suggested a change in policy to allow Times New Roman to also be acceptable, since we were now in the computer age, and not limited to typewriters and daisy-wheel printers, and since Times New Roman was demonstrably easier to read, and more attractive. He took my request to the Chief of Staff of the Army, who shot it down.
i was ahead of my time!
Re:i was ahead of my time, when i worked for DoD!! (Score:4, Funny)
Damn. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Damn. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Damn. (Score:5, Funny)
Dubya (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dubya (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Informative)
Dear God.
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Insightful)
And we sit around arguing over their arguments. Which is worse?
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Insightful)
The tech stuff is easy. They just want the program to do everything _and_ the kitchen sink.
But what really causes weeks or months of meetings is
- "should the logo in the corner be exactly 120 pixels or 121 pixels?... no, wait, 119 pixels is just right."
- Then the fonts which _must_ be 7 pixel Sevenet (or some other non-standard font which is guaranteed not to even be installed on someone's computer, when they point their browser at the site. Bonus points if it's a pain to read.)
- And it all _must_ comply with some nighmarish corporate scheme that wasn't designed for the net to start with. Actual examples from actual projects I've worked on, include cyan on blue, and light orange on orange-ish yellow. Literally. I'm not making it up.
- And all the text _must_ always be limited into a 491 pixel wide area, to look the same on everyone's screen as it does on the PHB's laptop, with whatever default non-maximized position his IE remained set as. (God forbid that someone who uses 1600x1200 be actually able to use all that area to read the text.)
And so on and so forth. It's the stuff managers' dreams are made of. I'm guessing that if you stopped them from spending weeks debating the exact font size and exact logo size and hue, you'd suck all the fun out of management.
So, well, given that the government's job _is_ to manage... now why am I not surprised?
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Funny)
You *work*? (Score:3, Funny)
10 posts on Monday, 4 so far today... You work? I want your job...
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Funny)
It's not Interesting. It was a freakin' joke!! Geez...
Sorry for replying to my own post...
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, imagine making sure everyone is using a standard font people can read so they can be assured that people will have it on their computer and can view the documents properly!
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait a second.. are you saying that the government is spending lots of time OCRing their own computer documents??
Now that is a waste of time and money!
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, in the last 10-15 years it's become reasonable to use electronic means to move around large amounts of data between normal sites - that is, those not custom-built around mainframe systems like the original ARPAnet. The government seems to be making strides toward adapting to the new technology, but you have to understand that those giant traditional paper distribution networks can't just be replaced overnight. I'm sure that there are a lot of instances where, at this exact moment in time, it's actually cheaper and more efficient for office "A" to transmit information to office "B" using paper as a carrier medium.
Remember, "Rome" wasn't built in a day (Heh! An on-topic pun! Ain't I the clever one?). It'll take a while to remodel it to suit the current technology.
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Interesting)
The government seems to be making strides toward adapting to the new technology
I'm sure.
If they're like most corporations in the United States, they'll adopt some official records retention policy that prescribes periodic deletion of old emails and electronic documents.
The Netscape trial illustrated Microsoft's mistake in keeping old emails around.
Monica Lewinsky's old emails likewise proved to be an embarrassment for the administration.
And given Dick Cheney's penchant for secrecy, I'm sure that a lo
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Informative)
You can see an example of OCR-a it here [identifont.com].
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Funny)
It was abandoned when they figured out the special sized paper was more expensive. My dad still has a ream of the stuff.
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want to start bitching about where your tax money is going, do some research [whitehouse.gov] first.
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:5, Informative)
Sad, but true.
Also, most large corporations have a standard font for official correspondence.
Fonts Matter (Score:3, Interesting)
Times New Roman is not a Microsoft v. the world thing. The font was developed by The Times in 1932 [wikipedia.org]. It is a relatively compact font. It was used by papers as they were able to get a large number of words per page and was easy to read.
A standardized font improves quality. It makes do
Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. (Score:3, Insightful)
14 point? (Score:5, Interesting)
ed
Re:14 point? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:14 point? (Score:5, Funny)
Most likely aggressive lobbying by the pulp and paper industry.
10 Point Falisy (Score:5, Informative)
So to answer your question. No, 12 point is the accepted standard for most communication. Unfortunately since the majority of computers in the world render points incorrectly '10 point' has become a defacto, and typographically incorrect, standard.
Re:10 Point Falisy (Score:3, Interesting)
It is true they assumme the screen is 96 dpi so they multiply this by 96/72 to get the number of pixels. There is
Re:14 point? (Score:3, Funny)
I find it kind of ironic that the only people using times new roman 14 will be government employees and high school students trying to fill at least two pages with text.
Re:14 point? (Score:5, Informative)
The point size of a font refers to the height of the ancient lead type, where every letter is sitting on a rectangular piece of lead. Some fonts are designed to never reach the borders of that rectangle, i.e. a parenthesis "(" in a 12-point font can actually be a bit less than 12 pt high. Only if a "(" is more than the specified 12pt, then something is really wrong.
Furthermore, 12 points are NOT the same as 1/6 inch. There are actually 72.27 (American printer's) points in an inch, but someday, Adobe decided that for digital typesetting, a round number such as 72 points per inch was easier. (The number 72.27 pt/in is easy to remember, but that is pure coincidence. See point units [mcgill.ca].)
Slow news day? (Score:4, Insightful)
Times New Roman? Yuck. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Times New Roman? Yuck. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Times New Roman? Yuck. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:BAN SERIF FONTS ALTOGETHER (Score:3)
From what I can tell from other analysis here, the new rule applies to printed documents, where serif fonts really are easier to read for large chunks of text.
Linux Equivalent of Times New Roman? (Score:3, Interesting)
So, what does this edict from the government mean for Linux desktop adoption in the Government?
How appropriate (Score:5, Funny)
How appropriate since we are apparently the New Rome .
The real reason (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The real reason (Score:5, Funny)
Ever wondered why the Bushies did not use the name 'Operation Iraqi Liberation'?
Copyright? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Copyright? (Score:5, Informative)
There's a ``gentleman's agreement'' w/ Linotype Corporation which allows them to use / produce ``Times'' (For the backstory on this, look up an article published in the APHA's journal and Walter Tracy's wonderful book _Letters of Credit_).
However, URW did a clone of Times (Nimbus Serif, I believe it's provided as), which they've since made freely available (see the link to this at www.tug.org) and which can be easily used in free systems such as TeX, and is readily installable w/ XFree86 so that one may use it w/ Linux, Gnome, KDE &c.
For those who're curious on the specifics of typeface copyright &c., www.typeright.org is a good starting point.
William
Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, the change from fixed to proportional strikes me as the significant thing.
It means that government employees who have to use a word processor are now going to have to learn how to do tab stops. And (Horrors!) maybe even tables. Many of these astute public servants-- secretaries to heads of departments and so forth-- have been abusing the spacebar for 10+ years.
This is going to disrupt the work of a lot of staff. They'll be spending their time learning about left justified tabs, right justified tabs, and the strange behaviors of the mysterious decimal point tab. And some will be forced to learn how to insert rows and columns in tables, and even perhaps how to merge adjacent cells in a table. This is going to be very stressfull in some areas, and will cause some early retirements and probably some medical retirements. I ain't kidding. I've worked with a goodly cross section of these astute public servants, and I know about the limitations that are behind the bright smiles.
The March Monthly Report On The SW Antarctic Penguin Census And Pollen Count will have to be rewritten from scratch rather than simply copying last month's file and changing the numbers. All businesses that rely on such reports from the US State Department should be advised that these may be late, due to unexpected technical problems with the computers.
Noted in passing: IIRC, both Courier New and Times New Roman were introduced at the same time, as two of the three core fonts of TrueType, about 1991, as part of Widows 3.1 (maybe another geezer can confirm this). Both are native Windows fonts. (The third core font was Arial.)
There is nothing particularly newer or more modern about TNR vs CN. Both are computer implementations of fonts that were developed to meet limitations of earlier technologies. Courier is a very open font that does not gum up quickly on the electric typewriters of the 1960s. Times is a complex font designed to retain readability at small sizes with newsprint stock and linotype machines, where smearing, dropouts, and voids frequently damaged the letterforms.
It is always good to see that the US government is improving itself, and moving ahead with the Times.
</rant>
Sign of the Beast (Score:3, Funny)
No wonder the 5 evil acolytes selected him.
Telegrams? (Score:5, Funny)
Telegrams?! They still use telegrams? If so, where can I still send one from? I'm sure a telegram to a Senator might get more attention than a letter and certainly more than an email. Plus sending telegrams sounds cool.
--Stephen
Re:Telegrams? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Telegrams? (Score:5, Insightful)
Convenient that it lets you send both!
Re:Telegrams? (Score:5, Funny)
Dear Senator. STOP.
Please consider the following things that should be changed. STOP.
-The RIAA. STOP.
-Microsoft. STOP.
-The war in Iraq. STOP.
-The Patriot Act. STOP. No, stop. STOP. I mean seriously, stop it now. STOP.
Re:Telegrams? (Score:3, Insightful)
A diplomat may be at the mercy of the local communication system, and I know of countries where modems are outlawed. (They mess up the cheap bugs the local law enforcement has on all the phones. Not that the phones work...) If you need something to go faster than a letter, a telegram may be your only choice.
This just in. (Score:5, Funny)
Language? (Score:3, Insightful)
More Modern (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sure glad they put "more modern" in quotes, as Times New Roman was introduced in 1932 [comfsm.fm]!
-Peter
Re:More Modern (Score:3, Informative)
Also, from the same page, Courier was first designed as an IBM typewriter face. IBM started as Computing-Tabulating-Recording-Company in 1911 and its name was changed to IBM in 1924. So it is possible that Courier predates Times New Roman. However, Adrian Frutiger [artandculture.com] redrew that font for IBM selectric typewriters, [ibm.com] thus creating Courier New in 1961.
Its a shame.. (Score:5, Insightful)
They didn't choose a font! (Score:5, Insightful)
A typeface could technically be a font if you only have one version of that typeface = the one font in it.
And in Related News... (Score:5, Funny)
Should clear up their communiques a bit.
Government Forcasts 30% Increase in Paper Use (Score:3, Insightful)
"I want to make it perfectly clear to every one in the world that just because I'm shortsighted does not mean that I can afford not to be misudnerstood."
You do know what this means? (Score:4, Funny)
Other important news: (Score:3, Funny)
1) All federal employees must tie their shoelaces using a right-over-left Ian knot [fieggen.com].
2) Handwritten ampersands must be of the official '&' variety and not the 'sloppy plus' variety.
3) Toilet paper must be folded, not crumpled [monzy.com].
As a person with poor eyesight.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I have had problems reading small font text for at least 10 years now, and the problem is, of course, getting worse. But I have learned a lot, about the needs of visually impaired people. One of these things is that Verdana is probably the ideal font for us. This fact was discussed in depth on the nystagmus newsgroup, and the good thing is, we all reached a consensus about Verdana.
I am surprised so few companies use it. Actually, none as far as I know. I am surprised mostly because I believe that a nice, readable font is pleasant even for the healthy eye, it's more ergonomic.
Re:As a person with poor eyesight.. (Score:3, Informative)
For lots of text-on-paper reading, serifed faces are easier on the eyes, so I can see the arguement for Times. Times, though, was intended for newspaper use (hence the name), not long reports that run in wide columns...AS I've said elsewh
blind gov't (Score:3, Funny)
Readability? (Score:3, Informative)
Ask anyone in the publishing industry, and chances are they will tell you that the most readable font available is Courier (in any standard variety) 12pt Regular.
I.e., precisely the font they are moving away from, on the grounds of readability.
I wonder if the person who made this choice is someone who has to read a lot of documents, or just somebody who thinks a proportional font looks nicer?
Re:Readability? (Score:3, Insightful)
Proportional fonts look nicer, which is why they are used in areas where visual presentation is important, such as consumer goods.
Re:Readability? (Score:3, Informative)
scripsit julesh:
I honestly can't say what they're smoking over at the university press if they prefer Courier... but I can quite categorically say that when I have a stack of three hundred pages of student papers to
Fresh off Google (Score:3, Informative)
Alex
Could the linked article have a worse headline? (Score:3, Insightful)
What the heck?
1: The memo only applies to standardizing internal documentation for one department.
2: Courier is "time-honored" only in that it was the ubiquitous typeface for single-font devices like typewriters and ascii printers, as well as degrading nicely to dot matrix. Monospace is a pain to read in extended printed documents.
3: The article calls the new rules draconian, in spite of the fact that previously, Courier New 12 was mandated for all official documents!
It's a CONSPIRACY, Itell you, a CONSPIRACY... (Score:3, Funny)
"New Times" == "Changing Times" == "New World Order"
And what kind of "Order"? Roman law, the law of Empire, the end of the Republic, the... the...
Well, at least they didn't choose Comic Sans. I'd hate to think what kind of world that font would be ushering in.
Bigger font = bigger report (Score:3, Interesting)
What high school, college or university student hasn't heard of this trick before?
fucking aweful title... US doesn't "Ban" anything (Score:4, Interesting)
US State Department (Score:5, Informative)
I guess RTFA is too much to ask on a slow news day.
Re:US State Department (Score:3, Funny)
wait no, scratch that;
You read the headline.
God bless slashdot.
Actually, I don't read the headline, NOR the actual article. I just come to post some smarmy tripe.
Relax, guys (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of big organizations make decisions like this. The State Dep't wants documents coming from it to have a similar look and feel. Just consider it a social CSS.
I subcontracted for State for a while, and this is actually a step in the right direction. They have 2 print shops, one for GS and one for FS, and people have lately been printing some really stupid looking reports and circulars. It's kind of a shame that they chose 14 pt TNR, since that pretty much keeps you from being able to make a small, glos
Re:Telegrams? (Score:4, Funny)
Or even obsolete!
Re:Resistance is futile. (Score:4, Funny)
What happen!!
Someone set us up the Times!!
What!!
We get bigger!!
New Font Turn on!!
It's Huge!!
How are you gentlemen!!
All your document are belong to us!!
You have no chance to survive, make your change!!
Re:Standard points or Microsoft points? (Score:3, Informative)
That was set by John Warnock (you may know him better as the founder of Adobe Systems) when he wrote a little program called PostScript. He chose to do this for efficiency's sake since he knew all fonts would have to be re-created for use in his system.
Prior to that there were two different types of points, English points (72.27 to an inch) and Cicero / Didot points (some funny number to a meter).
So, when one specs points in publishing, one sh