Will Microsoft Subsidize WinXP For Lindows Buyers? 644
kinema writes "Ars Technica has an interesting little article about Microsoft's alleged "dumping" of Windows XP. It seems that Microsoft is selling XP through TigerDirect for only US$50 to customers who have purchased a Lindows computer." Note that Tiger says nothing like this on their site (No, you can't buy WinXP for $50 there); Lindows CEO Michael Robertson says (in the linked column) that "Microsoft's latest offers to TigerDirect are extremely lucrative and I wouldn't be surprised if they ultimately cave to Microsoft's pocketbook." PR ploy or reality, you decide.
Why (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)
In the UK, I've seen Windows XP Home (OEM) licenses for sale for about $99.
PS Not disputing your general view that people are buying Lindows on price rather that security/philosophy basis.
Re:Why (Score:4, Informative)
The correct price for XP Home is over GBP 160 (at dabs.com, GBP 163.32 excluding carriage)! For our European friends, that's EUR 231.13, and for any Americans among us it is a bargain at just USD 270.39.
It's not really surprising that people are lookin elsewhere when faced with these prices, product activation and loss of features (such as a watering down of the command line).
Re:Why (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:5, Informative)
A EULA is not a law. Legislatures make laws, not companies.
Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)
You appear to have only studied the theoretical workings of government. In "practical" application in modern times, businesses not only make laws, the install governments and control the judicial process.
Re:Why (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah. This is true. But with big companies lobbying (and owning) congress the way they do, this might not be true for long...
RIAA, MPAA ???
Re:Why (Score:5, Interesting)
Granted
> Legislatures make laws, not companies
But wha!? Where have you been living the past 10 years??
Look at all the laws bought by companys...
Copyright, DMCA, all drug laws, any law that involves the internet (generally having the word 'cyber' in it) that is obviously different from its real world counter-part law, any/all deregulation laws... The list goes on and on.
Then on top of it, there are three types of lawsuits all handled differently.
Person vs person. Company vs person. and Company vs company.
They are all handled Very differently in reality.
Person vs person = Generally this is the only way our legal system works as it was intended.
Company vs Company = whichever has the largest legal team wins.
Company vs person = company always wins.
You dont think this wasnt encouraged and backed by companys to keep this aragement?
Copyright has been changed by companys (one company, disney, mainly) so a company doesnt have to pay for copyright and can keep their works forever.
Drug laws were created purely for racist segragation (The white christian government didnt like the fact other countrys workers used a standard drug, wanted those workers gone to make more jobs for said white christian workers, and so made outlaws of the group by making the comon drug of the time illegal)
They are currently enforced because, for example, if weed was legal, the entire oil business would pretty much go away, as hemp oils burn over 50% cleaner and are way over 10 times cheaper to produce, plus will never go away as the case with oils refined from ore. (Just one example, there are many others)
All the laws that already have real world counterparts but because it now involves the internet its somehow different.
If I stole a CD from a store, i get a fine, and on my 2nd offence MAYBE a day or two of jail time. If i download the same data from the internet, its somehow changed into 5 years of prison time and $10,000 per song.
Deregulation laws. Yes, basically in english they all read identical:
"If you can make a better product than I do, cheaper, we will sue you for preventing us from making money" (See airlines, phone company, sony, etc)
Any law that only helps a small minority while at the same time hurting the entire majority is most likely made by a company and bought.
That pretty much describes all of the laws passed in the past few years...
Sad but true *shrug*
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
The terms of the EULA (at least as of about 3 years ago) indicate that the 'doze copy must be sold with a significant amount of hardware - and either a motherboard or hard drive suffice.
There's no requirement that they be *new*, or is there any restriction on *price*, or even that said motherboard or hard drive have any guarantee of functionality. We even called their piracy hotline, verified this, and even demanded a ticket number that we could reference later.
So, as the owner of a computer store, we kept a box of "questionable" hardware that we sold for $1 USD. Anytime we replace a Hard disk or Motherboard, we'd indicate on the replaced item with a permanent marker its status and put it in the $1 box.
And, when we sold an OEM copy of Windows, we included the $1 hard disk or motherboard!
Now, as far as I can tell, we followed the EULA right to the letter, and for some reason, many of the people who bought these hard drives and motherboards left them behind!.
Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft may well believe that, but they are wrong [cornell.edu] . You do not need the permission of the copyright holder to simply run software you have legally obtained. (This is only in the US, but my understanding is that EULAs are basically unenforceable in most other countries).
Re:Why (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why (Score:5, Informative)
XP Home Full edition, $199
XP Pro Upgrade Edition, $199
XP Pro Full Edition, $299
The prices may fluctuate a lil up or down, depending on where its being sold, but thats about the going rates on XP for the various versions, the upgrade being identical to the full install, but it looks for a previous version, easily fooled by sticking in any old windows cd, or even dos bootdisk.
Full version XP for $93, Pro for $143- Legit. (Score:3, Interesting)
Both specify "must be purchased with hardware" which is apparently related to the deal they have with Microsoft. This is probably intended to be sold to people building their own computers, as that's the primary business of the referenced site, so Microsoft's 'with hardware' clause may have been intended to mean a processor and motherboard etc... but a $5 cable satisfies the formal requ
Re:Watering down of the command line..... (Score:3, Insightful)
And, for the record, the command line is not arcane. I know of no other easy way, for example, to go into a directory full of MP3s, Oggs, and WAVs, and move only the Oggs to another folder. In DOS, it would be something like this:
cd \music\downloads ..\ogg
move *.ogg
In Explorer, it would involve hunting through
Re:Watering down of the command line..... (Score:3, Informative)
A better way would be doing a search for *.ogg in that directory, clicking once in the resultant search window, hitting Ctrl+A, Ctrl+X, navigating to the destination and hitting Ctrl+V. Or sorting by type and selecting all the .ogg files from the nice contiguous group that should create.
Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:5, Interesting)
Or you read that with a Lindows box, you can get XP for $50 rather than $200. Assuming that Lindows costs less than $150, this is an extremely good deal! Looks like a good way to get Windows users to try out Linux ;-)
Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)
Assuming you are not trolling:
This is an frontal attack on the company and it's policies.
They hope to make it more profitable for the company to sell windows than linux, thereby killing off another competitor.
It's just the first stage of knocking out consumer decision making.
Re:Why (Score:4, Funny)
They hope to make it more profitable for the company to sell windows than linux, thereby killing off another competitor.
Looks like they've already suceeded: Lindow Man [bbc.co.uk] is "the only prehistoric person who survives in Britain"!
Re:Why (Score:3, Informative)
That arguement is so wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Your vision of what captialism is is whacked. The worst thing that can happen in a capitialist market is one company gaining complete control. Sorry but being a strong advocate of capitialism myself I see this as among the worst things any company could do to maintain a monopoly.
Re:That arguement is so wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
The difference between that and a monopoly has to with spending money from one area and using it to sell an item below cost in order to bring down competitor demand.
Ms certainly is guilty by destroying Netscapes value by doing just this. For some dumb reason the DOJ never really went after this during their investigation. Doh. Just wait untill drm and IE tied to versions of WIndows comes out. Want to view this website? Pluck down $300 for the next v
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
Not trolling, I'm dead serious. If one of my less technically inclined siblings bought a Lindows machine from Wal*Mart, you can be sure after a few days or weeks of using it for emailing stuff back and forth (excel, word, ppt, whatever) with the other family members, they be begging to get Windows on their computer (Why can I open this CoolStuff.ppt on my computer??.) Ok, in fairness, they wouldn't necessarily be begging for Windows, per se, but they'd be begging to be able to have a working solution. Just for the numerous kids educational titles out there they'd get it.
Please, don't start in with the run it on Wine shit either, unless your going to provide free on-site tech support to resolve library and native vs. Wine dll issues on each piece of software they have.
Yes, I do know I reference MS Office file types up there, which cost far more than the discounted $50 XP. I'm over-generalizing just to make a point. IMO Lindows is great, for someone who *knows* they want to get away from Microsoft, or want to get started in Linux without starting up a distro from a Floppy, network install or CD and figuring it all out. But not for any typical home user I know...
Now, to my actual point:
Yes, I've used a Lindows machine a family member bought on a whim; it's no longer running Lindows. You better believe they didn't know it didn't have Windows. Lindows/Windows... it's all the same... right??? He didn't have a clue what he was getting. None. I'll be a good chunk of all the Lindows machine buying folks don't know either.
Ahhh... well, that's my big rant for the day, time for some coffee to calm me down.
Agree/disagree...? I wanna hear about it.
Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)
This is because too many people think computer *means* windows... That is, unless the computer looks like a gumdrop, in which case, it means *kooky macintosh*, but they wouldnt know what to do with that either.
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
The average user doesn't know the difference between Windows/Lindows, except the fact that there is no Word, Excel, Outlook (Express), etc yet. No one's heard of WordPerfect. Barely anyone I know uses Netscape. I would have to explain why Kazaa doesn't work...and they don't care about alternatives - its Kazaa or bust. Can't run MSN Messenger? Screw it. Even if Sim or Everybuddy or GAIM is better.
Most people who are buying a computer that cheap are buying it because it is that cheap. They don't care what's on it as long as it runs the games it needs without any extra work. I try to educate users about licensing, but explain to a 12 year old like I did this weekend the concept of copyright and licensing. It goes right over their heads. And since parents probably know less than their kids about computers, parents will ask "Is this what you want?", get an affirmative, and pull out the Visa.
Kids get to play their games, parents get rid of another headache.
Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)
you can be sure after a few days or weeks of using it for emailing stuff back and forth (excel, word, ppt, whatever) with the other family members, they be begging to get Windows on their computer
Not until very recently (with XP), not many home users have MS Office available, maybe MS Works or Corel but not the full blown Office package. If so, I was not aware Office was a common package on OEM computers.
I have NEVER sent or recieved a MS Office document from a family member (or anyone for
Disagree (Score:3, Interesting)
Why?
Because their Windows system has hosed itself or been wiped out by viruses and trojan horses four times in the last year or two. Every time they get it all working again, suddenly they have an infestation of pop-up penis enlargement ads, or everyone they know starts getting e-mailed virus file attachments. Even when Windows is not obviously hosed, it tends to crash and otherwise behave erratically, because they're not t
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
Then you haven't tried to put motion video into your talks. I do alot of talks, and they have alot of video's in them - 1 second repeating loops to be precise, for technical reasons. But the problem applies for any video. (I have actually though of reencoding some of this stuff as an animated gif, which would be a really ugly solution
Open office doesn't do video, or other fancy includes. It doesn't do the macros for excel right.
That doesn't make it bad, but it does make it less than 100% compatible.
I'm not here to troll on this one, but if open office could do my talks, I would be doing them all on a linux laptop now. But it doesn't, and any amount of people on
As soon as OO does this stuff reliably, I'm switching over. Until then, I _HAVE_ to use microsoft for this part of my work, and windows stays on my laptops, even with a room full of linux servers & workstations at home.
Michael
Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah, so pick a specific feature that you want, claim it as the general case, then say the average home user (who likely doesn't even use this feature) will hate it because it doesn't support your pet feature. That's nice and honest of you.
Re:Why (Score:3, Informative)
Of course you could use Wine, but this is a next-next-finish install and it runs VERY stable. They offer a trial version. I loved it and then bought it. It's only $55, and you prolly have an MS Office license anyway from the corp. where you're working.
Re:Why (Score:5, Informative)
Hmm, I just fired up a copy of OO, popped the MIB2 trailer onto a slide, and set it to loop no problem. I think your problem is that Linux doesn't really have a COM analogue (or rather it has several, which is the problem from the point of view of application support) so you can't just embed a copy of QuickTime player into your presentation (well, you couldn't anyway, since QT doesn't run on Linux). If you run OO on Windows, then you don't have this problem.
Re:Why (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, I don't know. A lot of people seem to think that Word *is* the computer. There's a guy here who tries to open EVERY file he gets from inside Word's File/Open dialog ("why can't I read this 'PDF' file? It comes up as a bunch of garbage."
However, I suppose this guy might have some legitimate need to have short looping video in his powerpoint presentations, and Openoffice will not do that.
Re:Why (Score:3, Informative)
ars has good discussion on this already (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why (Score:4, Funny)
Or you've decided to take advantage of billg's generosity, and get XP for $149 total, including a copy of Lindows. Dual boot on a beer budget!
Everybody buy this, I say. (And help get another money suck going, much like XBox.)
You should have subscribed. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:look (Score:5, Interesting)
Heh, same here...I've have 2 articles rejected. Although the editors may have reasons for rejecting articles, Slashdot really needs a better way to handle rejection. You find a great story, research it for authenticity or dupes, then find alternate links, and finally write up a paragraph with good HTML and perfect grammer. After all this, you recieve this notice:
"..don't gripe, you'll get you modded down..."
Another example of Slashdot editor's lack of professionalism. They need to tell us why was it rejected. Not catchy enough? Someone already submitted it? Not
Slashdot should have a section titled "rejected stories". It'd contain all the rejected stories submitted to the editors that day. I'd love to see those! Sure, some will suck and some will be dupes, but there's all those rare gems of stories we'll never get to see.
Re:look (Score:5, Interesting)
The silly thing is that if they do this, then the quality of submissions will eventually go up because people will start to understand what makes a good submission. I'm sure that 20% of the Slashdot crowd submit 80% of the articles anyway.
Slashdot should have a section titled "rejected stories". It'd contain all the rejected stories submitted to the editors that day. I'd love to see those! Sure, some will suck and some will be dupes, but there's all those rare gems of stories we'll never get to see.
Agreed! This means that you get a different view on the stuff being posted - not just what the Slashdot editors like and dislike. Also, if it had the reason why it was rejected - you can understand what makes a good submission and so the quality of submissions will go up.
Finally, something I put in sourceforge idea tracker was that they should only show the "Submit" button when you've previewed at least once. This will force people to preview, close any open tags and generally think a little more about their comment. It also serves to piss off slightly more the "First Post!" trolls.
Re:look (Score:4, Informative)
Look at that for an explanation on why stories are sometimes picked, sometimes not. Its not perfect, but thats the way they do it.
Re:WinXP subscription / Lindows Purchase (Score:4, Informative)
YRI. (You recollect incorrectly.) When you purchase a full copy of WinXP ($199 MSRP for the Home edition) you *own* it. MS will support it with free patches and updates 'til Dec 2006. (Corporate customers will get free security patches 'til 2008.)
After that, you are on your own. If you wish to continue to use it, you're welcome.
Note the free updates+patches thing. That entitles you to free downloads (patches, software) from Windows Update. If you purchased XP Home for $199 ($99 if you upgraded) in December 2001 when it was released, you would get patches and updates 'til Dec 2006. Compares pretty well with Red Hat's $60/yr RHN sub (= $300 for updates). But hell, with Red Hat, you have to upgrade the OS every year or so because Red Hat doesn't support non-AS releases for more than 1 (or is it 2?) years.
MS' Lifecycle policy webpage [microsoft.com] is here.
True or not, does it really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, do we *really* want Lindows to be the thing the masses at large associate with linux, or alternative OSes in general?
Re:True or not, does it really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? Choices make the world a better place. Lindows isn't Debian. Lindows isn't Red Hat. Lindows is Lindows. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not a good product for some people.
If somebody forks over some cash for a Microsoft-free product, it still sends a message to Microsoft. If somebody's happy with Lindows, great! If somebody's unhappy with Lindows after trying it, they can decide to go back to Microsoft or they can try something else, but they know they have a choice.
Re:True or not, does it really matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Today Windows and Linux Users are two completletly diffrent folks with different desires. You and me are a linux users with linuxish desires thats fine. Now for us lindows is something not attractive to use ourselfs okay. Now there are these windows users, they like maybe lindows which is windows like,
Hooked on Crack (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hooked on Crack (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hooked on Crack (Score:3, Funny)
Then you gotta consider all of the crashing and how much productivity is lost by using said products!
Why spend yet another 50bux? (Score:3, Insightful)
From what I've seen the concept is to eliminate the M$ tax and make the machine as cheap as possible...this kinda defeats the purpose for the user.
Re:Why spend yet another 50bux? (Score:3, Insightful)
On the software side, Lindows can't run a lot of Windows software, and many programs that it can run (via Wine) don't always work correctly. OpenOffice DOES NOT work as a 100% replacement for Office. Just because you can move simple to moderately complex documents back and forth between Office and OO doesn't mean that OO can seamlessly replace Office. It's not just "weird Office features that
Re:Why spend yet another 50bux? (Score:4, Funny)
On the software side, Windows XP can't run a lot of Linux software, and many programs that it can run (via porting) don't always work correctly. MS Office DOES NOT work as a 100% replacement for OpenOffice. Just because you can move simple to moderately complex documents back and forth between OO and Office doesn't mean that Office can seamlessly replace OO. It's not just "weird OO features that no one ever uses" that Office can't do, it's a lot of stuff. It'll work pretty well, but it's not a complete replacement for OO by any means. Also, do you really think that you could just buy Linux software off the shelf, pop it into your Windows machine, and have it autorun, install, and work properly? Keep dreaming.
On the hardware side, unless you go and buy hardware that works in a fairly generic method (hard drives, mice, etc.) you're not going to have a lot of luck. Buy a piece of hardware that needs special drivers (webcams, video input cards, etc.) and you're going to see your chance of successfully getting Windows working with the hardware drop to zero.
So in light of all this, free seems like a deal. No money to get software and hardware to "just work" without jumping through hoops. Not a bad deal.
Not a troll, just trying to give you a reality check...
Re:Why spend yet another 50bux? (Score:3, Insightful)
You say Linux can't handle hardware outside of generic stuff like hard drives and mice. I've never had a piece of hardware
sigh (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft seems to have been taking heat for something or another for as long as I can remember.
On the otherhand, all compitition play dirty. Dont they?
Re:sigh (Score:3, Informative)
Places to start:
"Dos isn't done 'til Lotus won't run."
Strange error messages for DR DOS users starting windows 3.1.
Claim for Windows NT Sever that there will never be "evil" per client licensing for the file server. (my favorite one, of course they just ment for version 3.51 )
IBM essentially dumping OS/2 in order to be able to preload Windows 95 (Microsoft waited until the last minute to give them permissi
Re:sigh (Score:3, Informative)
Your post makes this sound current, but they had to cut this out a while back. I know recently some allegations have said that this is still the case but it isn't (you think places like Dell would tolerate it?)
Corel bonered Linux themselves, along with most products they've ever done with the exception of Draw. They also screwed the pooch over a Java WordPerfect without Mic
dumping? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:dumping? (Score:3, Informative)
Selling at below cost to break your competitors is illegal in at least some places, im sure.
Re:dumping? (Score:5, Insightful)
You have the development costs of creating WindowsXP (Cost A)
You have the support cost of maintaining WindowsXP (Cost B)
You have the manufacturing cost of producing a single copy of WindowsXP (Cost C, and let's assume that all fixed maufacturing costs such as the buildings and machines are included in the fixed development cost)
If MS sells n copies of XP, their costs are A + B + ( n * C ).
So if they sell 100 copies, it's A + B + 100*C
If they sell 10000 copies, it's A + B + 10000*C
A and B are already factored in. They know they have to pay for those no matter how many copies they can sell and they must price WindowsXP with some margin over C, and not worry about A or B.
If they can sell many copies of WindowsXP for a large margin over C, then they'll recover A and B very quickly. If the margin is small, it will take longer to recover those costs.
Microsoft estimates how many copies they can sell at various prices and chooses the price that allows them to recover A and B the fastest.
With a relatively small variable cost, it's almost impossible for Microsoft to "dump" their prices in the traditional definition of the word, which is temporarily selling below your variable cost to eliminate competition.
In the Lindows case, they're just reacting to market pressure.
That's what pays their developers' salaries.
Re:dumping? (Score:5, Informative)
Phillip.
Re:dumping? (Score:3, Flamebait)
You're right, the actual name for this is predatory marketing, and it too is illegal.
Not that we should expect the Bush administration to care.
dumping? (Score:2, Interesting)
Which flavour of FUD would you like with your news (Score:5, Insightful)
Could be, certainly within the GatesBorgs resources and methodology. Equally however, this could be a cleverly designed ploy to increase the profile of Lindows.
I'll wait on some hard evidence.
Note: I'm not saying I like M$, but I'm certainly not about to go off on some raving Linux-fanboi rant without seeing some evidence first.
Re:Which flavour of FUD would you like with your n (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. Tell the customer: "buy Lindows for $50, then buy XP for $50, throw your Lindows into the trash, and notice how you've only paid $100 for your XP rather than $200"! And most users would be curious enough to keep Lindows around (rather than throwing it away), and might have a look at it one boring Sunday afternoon. In conclusion, this looks like an excellent deal for the customer, for Lindows, and for Linux in general!
Trustworthy reporting? (Score:5, Informative)
What happened to the Law? (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting that in all of their supreme intelligence the DOJ and judge thought that their measures would tame the beast.
AND IF and again it is a BIG IF. It it is true. MS should be split right then and there into multiple companies... Sometimes the buck has to stop!
Re:What happened to the Law? (Score:4, Informative)
http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/john/baim503/du
Dumping is the act of charging a price to the export market that is less than the normal (fair) value. The dumping margin is the percentage difference between normal value and the export price.
In other words you are not charging a fair price. Well in terms of MS charging only 50US for an OS in contrast to the regular 299 USD is definitely price dumping.
Price dumping applies to everybody and not just monopolists.
Re:What happened to the Law? (Score:3, Funny)
Competition is starting to bring down the price of operating systems and all you can complain about is "price dumping".
Do you people actually stop complaining?
If it's dumping, Linux distros are more guilty (Score:5, Insightful)
You'd lose the case, because about $50 is what MS charges companies like Dell per copy when they buy in bulk. Their lawyers would say that this is the fair value, and the rest is markup for the retail distribution system. Pretty high markup, but hardly unprecedented.
In any case, if Microsoft can be accused of dumping for charging $50 for their software, couldn't a case be made against Red Hat for providing free ISO downloads? Isn't that dumping? It costs more than $0 to provide that service, so they are clearly dumping it.
Well, now. (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe we should pool our resources so we can offer a cheap version of Linux to people who buy systems with Windows XP!
Lindows Windows Marketplace confusion (Score:3, Interesting)
This sounds as if a lot of users bought Lindows thinking it was Windows (the average walmart user isnt going to realize there is a huge difference) and then wondered why [insert game name here] didn't work,
the average user is only influenced by price, they dont care if its closed or open source just wether it works and runs all the latest games etc,
this confusion can only get worse, but then what did Lindows expect ? they purposley named their product as close as they could to their biggest competitor (by 1 letter no less)
you get what you pay for
Hey, cool deal! (Score:5, Insightful)
This would make it cheap to make a dual-boot computer! I wouldn't mind having a Lindows computer for some daily work and piddling around. I would setup the dual-booting for games that only run on Windows. I could see paying $50 for it, but not $200...
I'm not a big Microsoft fan, but I am a game fan.
dochood
Are Microsoft really that bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
When Microsoft overcharged $200 for WinXP, everyone was criticizing them. Now that they are releasing it for a more reasonable price, they are still getting criticized. We should decide on the price we want. Do you want WinXP at $200 or $50. I would rather have $50.
Besides, is competition not one of the good things GNU/Linux has done to Microsoft? When they had no competition they kept high prices. Now they are reducing prices to compete. Is that not what we want?
Re:Are Microsoft really that bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
Giving discounts only to Lindows users is a sign that they're sights are on Lindows and killing it is the number 1 priority and their only intention.
There's still the question of whether discounting for one distributor breaks anti-trust. I can
Re:Are Microsoft really that bad? (Score:3, Informative)
Secondly, this isn't so much an anti-MS story as a "Hey look, MS is hurting" story.
Why is Microsoft so bad? (Score:5, Funny)
Now that, my friends, is price dumping.
I'm not trolling - honest (Score:3, Insightful)
Neither, just some
I swear, there should make a "creative writing" section (and even icon with it)!
Redmond is scared (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Redmond is scared (Score:3, Interesting)
So far, the attemps to squeeze more money (licensing changes, move to subscriptions) has failed miserably. Plus more and more customers are balking and becoming ex-customers. Not good.
The attempts to mov
TigerDirect are SCUM (Score:5, Informative)
Not only that, but they sell (er, "Rent") their spam list to other spammers. I know this because I have my own domain, so I can track who does what with my addresses - for example, amazon thinks my address is amazon@mydomain.com and tigerdirect things I am tigerdirect@mydomain.com - so when I start getting non-tigerdirect email sent to tigerdirect@mydomain.com I know they gave away my address. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill has bought a list of TigerDirect's lindows customers to use for targetted FUD. Hell, if he has their email addresses, they may end up being the recipient of the world's first linux email trojan...
I've long since put any mail addressed to tigerdirect@mydomain.com into a direct-to-devnull kill filter, but according to my logs they still keep sending me crap. Don't trust them for a minute.
Re:TigerDirect are SCUM (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2121.html [resellerratings.com]
Why is this a big deal? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Lower licensing fees ($0).
2. Freedom from proprietary encumberment
3. Better security
4. More rapid bug fixes
5. Community support
It just sounds like Microsoft has chosen to compete on the first point. It's really only monopolistic behavior *if* they try to force deals by taking unfair advantage of their monopoly position. Competing on price is not that.
TigerDirect Microsoft Survey (Score:5, Informative)
RMS, ESR and tigerdirect (Score:4, Funny)
I really hope that RMS and ESR bought a bare bones, no-OS system from tigerdirect recently too. I'd like to see the look on the face of the lackey who got to tabulate those survey results.
(imagine voice of pimply faced kid from the Simpsons)
"uhh, what do we do if somone attached a 500 page essay to their survey?"
Microsoft admits that Windows is overpriced (Score:4, Insightful)
Upgrades (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has done this before, as well. When Windows 2000 was released, it cost $250, but it was available as an "upgrade" for $120. There was no requirement that the upgrade be from an earlier version of Windows; in fact, it was explicitly stated that this was an upgrade "from any operating system".
I hope it's real (Score:3, Insightful)
So why do I want MS subsidizing XP on those boxes? Because every unit they move is a little money into Lindow's pocket. Maybe not as much as somebody buying click-and-run, but it's better than the nothing they'd get if the end-user just returns the damn thing because none of there peripherals and software works. Because as it stands now, Lindows by itself isn't going to make it.
What I really like to see from Lindows is them selling a complete package. Computer, monitor, printer, scanner, cammera w/smartmedia reader and software to make it all work. Brand the whole shebang, maybe take a loss on some components so you can make your money elsewhere, and above all abandon the silly notion that they're going to make money competing with microsoft right off the bat. That comes later
Price Discrimination (Score:4, Informative)
Secondly, Microsoft is doing exactly what every company does when presented with competition: they are lowering their prices. They see Lindows as a competing product to their own, so they are lowering the price. Now, their ability to offer that discount only to buyers of Lindows machines is a result of a tool called "price discrimination." Under perfect price discrimination, each consumer of a product would be charged exactly the maximum that he is willing to pay for the product. There is nothing inherently bad about this, it simply creates several prices for a single product, similar to what Amazon was accused of doing in an earlier article here.
Microsoft has simply lowered the price of XP to customers of Lindows only, because they know that other consumers will continue to pay the higher price. This is textbook price discrimination and nothing more.
$50!? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:$50!? (Score:3, Informative)
Isn't this really discriminatory pricing ... (Score:4, Insightful)
WinXP OEM price is not $200 (Score:5, Informative)
no conspiracy here. Just the simple fact that OEMs pay less for Windows than Joe Schmoe would at retail.
Wintergreen Connection (Score:4, Informative)
A little history
I got this from the lindows mailing list (Score:5, Informative)
After my expose [lindows.com] piece on Microsoft last week, I promised one reader that I wouldn't write about Microsoft again for awhile. Unfortunately, I think I have to break my promise and here's why: As I've written about previously, the real key to desktop Linux gaining momentum is to get retailers to sell computers with Linux preinstalled. Sure, some people are smart enough to download software from our web servers then burn a CD and install it, but the majority of people want to buy a computer, plug it in and have it ready to go. Getting Linux computers onto store shelves sounds easy -- what store wouldn't want to stock computers for $200-300? (I just bought a computer for $249 and upgraded the RAM from 128MBs to 256MBs for 30 bucks and it is a solid little performer!) Consumers really want affordable computers and any retailer who stocks them sells large quantities of them. It seems like it would be an easy decision, right?
There's one additional dynamic that comes into the equation - Microsoft's money to discourage retailers who start selling large numbers of LindowsOS computers. Microsoft routinely offers financial inducements to computer companies to not carry LindowsOS computers. With $40 billion in the bank, it's an easy decision for them to use a few million dollars to block Lindows.com from major retailers. Every month that Microsoft keeps their monopoly position, it is another billion or so in profit. You've probably heard rumors of such behavior in the past and maybe you're skeptical because the tales are, not surprisingly, light on facts. So allow me to give you the facts from one such retailer to convince you.
LindowsOS computers have been available from TigerDirect [lindows.com], a popular mail order technology business, run by a savvy CEO, Gilbert Fiorentino. After selling thousands of LindowsOS computers in the last few months, TigerDirect describes their experience with LindowsOS in their most recent catalog, saying they have found it to be "faster, leaner, and more stable than Microsoft Windows," mentioning how "...LindowsOS never crashed, even in extreme testing situations," and then go on to say that they are "more enthusiastic about the LindowsOS than ever."
We've met with TigerDirect in the past and they've remarked what great sellers the LindowsOS computers have been for them and how they were surprised at the demand for Microsoft alternatives. However, at these same meetings, they talked to us about e-mails and phone calls from Microsoft attempting to bribe them to stop selling LindowsOS computers.
While TigerDirect has resisted Microsoft's pressures in the past, recently Microsoft has stepped up orders to their staffers to increase the financial incentives to impede LindowsOS sales at TigerDirect. At some point, Microsoft's monetary inducements become so large that it makes economic sense for just about any retailer to abandon LindowsOS - no matter how many computers they might be selling. TigerDirect is in the business to make a profit and if Microsoft will guarantee them a profit, nobody can begrudge them for taking it.
Microsoft's latest offers to TigerDirect are extremely lucrative and I wouldn't be surprised if they ultimately cave to Microsoft's pocketbook. Microsoft is giving TigerDirect unheard of discounts on Microsoft software, allowing them to sell Microsoft Windows XP for just $50 to all of their customers who have purchased LindowsOS computers. TigerDirect is paying less for some copies of Microsoft Windows XP than even the largest Microsoft customers like Dell. Besides radically discounting their software, Microsoft is agreeing to spend a lot of marketing dollars to advertise their products through TigerDirect and more specifically to past LindowsOS computer buyers. Additionally, Microsoft is paying TigerDirect to collect market research on Li
Discounts inevitable for XP (Score:5, Interesting)
In ancient times, the OEMs were bullied into doing whatever Redmond said, lest they be cast aside from the DOS/Windows herd. The ultimate effect of this little exercise is to show the OEMs how much power they have. Just start talking about Linux, and wait for the discounts. Wait another 6 months and you might see M$ paying the OEMs to pre-install the product.
XP Wont run on most Lindows PC's (Score:3, Interesting)
Low price gets MS in the OSS habit (Score:4, Funny)
Better subject heading... (Score:4, Funny)
"Is Lindows Trying To Save A Buck On Advertising By Posting This Story On
Oops, the cats out of the bag. Mybad.
I bet you 10 bucks... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is price dumping to prevent a competitive marketplace, raising the barrier to entry for competitors, pure and simple. If Microsoft keeps this up, the Justice Department is going to actually have to do some real work and actually punish them.
Or not.