Microsoft's Athens PC 666
OneLeg noted that the Seattle Times has a story on Microsoft deciding to partner up with HP and
work on new PCs with a simpler, more controlled architecture. Including things like integrated telephony into the PCs, and in general, being a bit more Maclike and locking Linux out of the desktop market.
What about Apple? (Score:4, Insightful)
more controlled architecture? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:more controlled architecture? (Score:5, Funny)
We get Linux!!
What? (Score:4, Funny)
It's you!
How are you Gentleman. All your kernel are belong to us.
Compile you say?
You have no chance to link, make your time.
Ha Ha Ha.
(Incidently, it's set up us, not set us up)
Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Point 1. Being more like a Mac.
Point 2. Microsoft will not allow Linux on this machine.
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Funny)
1. Microsoft controlled architecture
2. Thumbprint scanner
Does anyone else see through this simple ploy on Microsoft's part to collect all of our biometric information? I bet their next computer requires a blood sample for verification.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Reverse engineering it all will be illegal under the DMCA.
Microsoft being involved in desktop hardware should result in more anti-trust accusations.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
As an American, I don't buy this load of crap at all. Sure, you and I may be angry over laws like the DMCA, but let me assure you that the vast majority of Americans, include those who bother to vote, don't give a rat's ass. Every time I try to bring up the curre
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd like to see them try.
I'm no coder, but there are thousands of people out there that can crack whatever MS tries to do (search for 'xbox' on Source Forge [slashdot.org] for examples...).
They can do whatever they want. I personally don't care. If there's a machine that's controled in this fashion, I won't buy it. It's really that simple.
No Sales == No Production
No Production == Bad Idea
Bad Idea == Bag It.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
No Sales == No Production
No Production == Bad Idea
Bad Idea == Bag It.
Nope. I bet counsumers will eat this up if it meets the users wants and has a low price point.
You and I may not like it, but we don't control the end user market.
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
The parent's right: if nobody buys it, it'll tank. And you're right: if it meets consumers' needs, they'll buy it.
However, for the most part, there isn't a more powerful force in th
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The end user wants a toster. Something cheap and easy to use. They also want it to look nice in their living area.
The average
There is nothing keeping the two worlds apart except money. There is nothing wrong with what the end user wants either.
They are not idiots, they are just not interested in the workings of the machine. They just want it to work.
The best thing that the open source community can do for these users is try to make that perfect toaster work better for less.
If MS wants to make hardware, so be it. If they make great hardware, fine. If its good, someone will create a clone. Our job is to make it cost less and run better by writing better software for it.
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Interesting)
Are you so sure about that? I don't know about you, but whenever my family or friends go to buy a new computer, I know exactly who they are coming to for advice: me. While ultimately it is their decision, I will not hesitate to explain to them in full the evils of whatever crap Microsoft is throwing at them or plans to throw at them in the future.
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
2) I won't buy it. It's really that simple. Great. Too bad you aren't the center of the Universe. It's all the other people who WILL buy it and potentionally make it a success, which would then have vendors writing software specifically for it, that's the problem.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Cracking is one thing, having a well supported, integrated out of the box experience is something totally different. Anybody who installs Redhat with nVidia cards still get appalling speed because they are on the no-frills NV driver. You know the hoops you have to go through to run Linux on an XBox? It's strictly for hobbyists only.
Another poster in this thread pointed out that we don't control the desktop market - unfortunately the glut of WinModems and hardware with binary-only drivers hammers this fact home constantly. Until people start building Linux specific hardware and selling it in stores next to "standard" stuff, hardware support will continue to be a weak point in the armour of Linux.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Relegating Linux to running on Apple hardware would put a huge dent in its adoption on the desktop. Apple's products are outrageously expensive compared to x86 hardware, and they already run a UNIX-like OS so why would you spend thousands on hardware only to format the disk and install a free OS?
Anyhow, I don't see this as locking Linux out of the desktop market. There are too many people out there that will need beefy hardware that is customizable : gamers, engineers, programmers, and other DIY-ers. These all-in-one units might do well for general office use and light home use, but any power user worth their salt will want something more. The hardware we need to run Linux will stay around as long as there is a demand from people like us.
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Interesting)
But I found none of this from the article. Infact I am kind of confused by statements like "we will make hardware work better with windows..." since hardware has great Windows support. How can they work better with software manufactors? If you are a manufactor of course Windows is the number one OS to support above everyone else.
My guess is
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Look up the pc98 standard? MS and Intel drafted it. This is what brought us ps/2 and usb ports standard on all pc's. Before that was sound cards and cd-roms on multimedia-1 and multimedia-2 standard pc's by MS, Sony and I think Philips.
Microsoft can be nasty but this area is one of the few benefits of them. Sometimes they can encourage new standards.
All this is, is an alternative to Apple and Sun.
Apple laid the way towards multimedia years before the pc. MS and Sony got invovled because they did not want the Apple supperior.
MS wants to be involved in appliances and Apple has the advantage of setting standards with their hardware. They just do not want WIndows pc's left behind.
Believe me that this has nothing to do with Linux whatsoever. Linux is a competitor to WIndows2k3 server and not the desktop( yet ).
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
So, there are two different ways to boot Linux. On all PCI PowerPC PowerMacs (the NuBus 6100/7100/8100 don't count), there's this thing called OpenFirmware [openfirmware.org]. It's an IEEE standard. It allows you to boot whatever you want. Apple and Sun are the two big players using OpenFirmware. Yes, on Apple Hardware, by default, it boots MacOS. Just like on Sun Hardware, by default, it boots Solaris. What's your point? If you don't like what it boots, you simply escape to the openfirmware prompt, and tell it to default to a different hard drive, or a different image. Just like how you have to install LILO or GRUB on a PC. And, in fact, OpenFirmware is better than the situation on a PC, since one keystroke will get you back to the default setup, if you want it, rather than having to find a DOS boot floppy and run fdisk /mbr.
Now, on older Macs (first generation PowerPCs and 68k machines), there was no OpenFirmware. For the simple reason that there was nothing else you could run on a Mac besides MacOS, for quite some time. True, if you wanted to run Linux 68k or NetBSD, you had to boot MacOS first, and then launch Linux from an extension or a application (similar to "loadlin" for DOS). However, you also had to do this for MkLinux, which was developed by Apple. So it's not like Apple was trying to suppress non-Apple systems. There simply was no workaround. However, that's why they released MacOS 7.5.5 and below free to the public. It runs on all non-PCI PowerMacs. So there's no reason why Linux can't run on any Mac.
Huzzah! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Huzzah! (Score:5, Insightful)
How many elite Mac users can you think of who run eMacs or iMacs? Pretty, compact, and inflexible iMac, or relatively "hackable" (Relatively; this is still an Apple machine) Power Mac G4? This is exactly that same conundrum, played out on PC.
Re:Huzzah! (Score:5, Insightful)
But since the non-hackers represent the VAST majority of the market - however they go, so goes the market. And if the hardware can be made less expensive (like winmodems were less expensive) then seems to me that there's a good chance the market could be coaxed in that direction - making life a little more irritating for the rest of us.
I think it's a cleaver move - and one that ties in nicely with their xbox project (which is beginning to look more like marketing R&D to prep the way for MS-exclusive hardware.) I don't know if they can pull it off.
Re:Huzzah! (Score:3, Informative)
For example, from that article:
Microsoft Corp. said on Monday it has developed a next-generation personal computer with Hewlett-Packard Co. aimed at helping users who juggle phones calls, faxes, cell phones, e-mail, instant messaging (news - web sites) and video conferencing as part of thei
Re:Huzzah! (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, most of 'em prefer vi.
how does this lock linux out? (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux can obviously still run on other PC's, and other architectures in general.
What's stopping somebody from "partnering" with a manufacturer, producing a PC that won't boot DOS/Windows, but will boot Linux? Obviously on such a board, MS could always add support for it, but wouldn't.
Re:how does this lock linux out? (Score:5, Insightful)
Think drivers. Think booting only those operating systems of which the bios approves (in the name of security perhaps?).
Re:Think... (Score:4, Insightful)
sure they can (Score:4, Insightful)
They pass laws affecting hardware all the time, it's a constant with bribed "government". They could EASILY pass a law stating no such and such styled MOBOs can be produced or imported into the US unless they had these "security features" installed that would restrict you and identify you in various ways. They could also go so far as to restrict any non complint hardware from accessing the internet, enforce it at the ISP and telco level, making your older tech obsolete, forcing upgrades, or making you take a risk of a label of being a criminal, subject to..whatever. They are just getting rolling with busting the P2P swappers, think they are going to just stop now?
It's all doable. That's what all these new super DMCA styled laws are all about, applying it to exact hardware specs is the next logical step for "them", them being the monopolists and the opposite side of the demon siamese twin 'government". And they got the buckets of coin and people with bad attidues with guns to make it happen, and you don't got the buckets of coin and personal armies to make it *not* happen, complain as you might, in most cases anyway. You might "get away with it" for some time as a scofflaw and flaunter, similar thinking has lead to over 2 million people in prison today,the vast majority of whom thought they were "leet" enough to "get away with" various drug possession and transfer. Stupid laws, yes. Enforceable? yes, to any level the government chooses to enforce them. If there's a buck in it for someone,and especially a cartel of someones with stealth monopoly on their minds, they will pass and 'enforce" whatever they want to, constitution be danged with those people. It's a joke to them, and every one knows it.
The goons have a way of making things happen in their favor, it seems to work for them. They use the carrot and the stick approach, and unless your carrots are much bigger and juicier and your stick much harder and faster, you will lose,and they will win in the long run.
Re:how does this lock linux out? (Score:2)
More Slashdot FUD...
Re:how does this lock linux out? (Score:2)
I'm still interested in the OP's question: How will they lock Linux out? The only thing that comes to mind is making them require "trusted" OSs (read: only Windows). Would Linux have a way around this?
Re:how does this lock linux out? (Score:5, Insightful)
The product could fill this niche nicely and I suspect that there will always be a market for those of us who want full control over the hardware... they may just get a little harder to find.
Port time estimates? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Port time estimates? (Score:2)
Re:Port time estimates? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Port time estimates? (Score:3, Insightful)
Several reasons: (think in terms of business and third party vendors writing software for a Linux port...)
- EULA on the hardware disallowing any other operating systems
- Voiding the warranty of the hardware.
- A monthly fee for a hardware "lease" or "rental" or "maintenance", with a hardware-required dial-in. (think tivo)
- Hardware lockouts ostensibly for DRM.
Who is going to write software for this? No one b
Re:Port time estimates? (Score:5, Insightful)
- will other products have the possibility to compete?
- will it be possible to interconnect other computers with this one, share information,
I think it is very clear on which track MS is here: it will try to wipe out competition on the OS market, and then it will try to get control of file formats and transfer protocols/interfaces. This has already been done in some areas; it is just trying to increase the pressure.
I think is is possible for them to technically lock out certain SW: I fear the only way to stop them is to further increase the legal pressure and force them to open the market to competition. Exactly the opposite than what is actually happening. Very sad
Outstanding! (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh wait, this is a bad thing... I think.
If this is anything like XP MCE (Score:3)
This is like Apple how...? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is like Apple how...? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll resist the "Elitist" urge to NOT make computers even easier to use than they are (SPAM exists because lemmings use computers) and side with the mass consumers here who want their machines even simpler to use. You know - the same crowd who's VCR still blinks 12:00 on the face. Perhaps MS and the hardware manufacturers are onto something here. I mean, how long did it take them to emulate MacOS? Why not emulate the iMac itself? And we all know how Customer Focused Microsoft is. Why there couldn't possibly be an ulterior motive here could there?
Like, say, set hardware standards that lock you into the OS/Hardware combination? Licensing fees that make you 'rent' your OS? "PC Phone home!" and make sure you have your credit card ready, otherwise your OS will shut down rendering your fancy new integrated PC a doorstop.
"I'll just load BSD on it!" Well, sure, if the BIOS will let you.
"I"ll just hack the BIOS so I can load Linux!" Well,sure, except for the teeny problem of those pesky Reverse Engineering and Circumvention clauses in the DMCA.
WILL this all turn out that way? Who knows. But given past performance, I don't see how this can be beneficial to the COnsumer without being a lot MORE beneficial to Microsoft.
Why is the PC market in a slump? Ask Microsoft. You know: the people who encourage you to upgrade to a 3GHz CPU with 2 Gig of RAM so your spreadsheets will run "So much faster!" (Ok, not fair maybe. That's just for the business desktops. We all know the power's there to play the latest and greatest video games)
Re:This is like Apple how...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Because the monopoly bell is fun to ring. Everybody here has a wild imagination about how MS plans to take over the world. I remember when the XBOX was getting close to launch, everybody was whining that MS was going to monopolize the game market, and then somehow use that to make Windows the dominant OS. Heh. Very imiaginitive BS.
They just can't face facts that MS is a very diverse company and not EVERY division of it is trying to
Re:This is like Apple how...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hate to break it to you, but if MS doesn't want to port their games to any other platforms, that's not a monopoly action. I mean, if you want to cry monopoly over that, then you also have to cry monopoly at Nintendo for not expanding their franchises to work outside of Nintendo built
Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:4, Insightful)
Micahel Robertson said it best [slashdot.org]:
Microsoft wants to move to a world where THEY decide what software a computer runs because that will allow them to extract the most money from consumers. They'll position this product with a comforting sounding name like "trustworthy" computing and tout the benefits, but it's really about shifting power over an individual's PC from the buyer to Microsoft. Microsoft will put up a permission gate before any software can be installed which will have a fee associated with it. It will ultimately give Microsoft control over a user's computer.
This is the first step in something like this becoming a reality. Control the hardware before you control the software.
Remember that story where microsoft wants to implement "classes" of pcs? Like "This game will only run on Class A or better machines"? This is a start, if only halfway.
This scares the hell out of me, and think long and hard about what the implications of such an act can cause if this becomes "mainstream".
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you can take off your aluminum foil hat for now, the Boogeyman of Redmond isn't really hiding under your bed... (but that always seems to make a good /. story)
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:5, Insightful)
While a more controled environment will reduce problems from the least knowledgable of workers, it will also reduce the capabilities of the smartest/most creative employees.
What's the first question you ask yourself when you see a user that is doing something that could have been prevented with lockdown? For me it is:
"Who hired this one?"
This gets to the truth. Many people in companies aren't able to handle their responsabilities. They either need to be trained, disciplined, let go, or "locked down".
When an organization chooses to lock down systems, however, they kill creativity. I'd recommend one of the other options.
In order to optomize human organizations, you must look at how HUMANS work (not machines, that's what scientific management does).
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead, it is usually to enforce valuable policies. For example, it may be too expensive to back up each individual computer's hard drive continually. So, a corporate IT dept may lock down a machine to discourage users saving essential data to their local, un-backed-up drive.
Similarly, legal reasons may require a company to delete email after a certain amount of time. There are a million different real business needs for taking control away from users. It's not just because we enjoy stifling our coworkers.
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:4, Insightful)
i can do that with linux for 100% free right now..
or.. if you have any skill with IS or IT (read that as non-MCSE) you can do it with NT4.0 and W2K right now without spending another dollar on software by simply setting up the proper policies on the machines.
so what is the advantage again? as I still see this like XP as adding zero value for the money spent.
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:4, Funny)
You mean the ones shouting "Developers! Developers! Developers!"... I wish those damn gorillas would leave me alone.
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Reducing hardware support simply requires standards. If hardware makers can develop an open standard for whatever hardware they're selling and implement it, there should be no problem for Windows, Linux or whoever to support it. My mouse, keyboard, game controller and external hard drives follow the USB standard and work just fine across OSes. My printer follows the PostScript language standard and should work find everywhere (though, admittedly, I haven't tried it with Windows), my CDROM and hard drives follow various bits of the IDE standard and have no trouble working.
One doesn't have to be locked down to a console-like PC platform to solve hard compatibility problems if hardware venders would simply make and adhere to open standards for communication. That's what we really need.
Re:Ah, another MS lockdown (Score:3, Informative)
And, you know what? It could happen. MS could develop the MS-2000 CPU that only runs their own code. Just like Apple.
Hmmm? Apple originally ran on the M68000, one of the most prolific chips in history, probably second only to the ia32 architecture. Everything: Lisa, MacOS, NeXT, SunOS, HPUX, Irix (I think) Amiga, AtariST, many real time OSes ran on it. It started running out of gas after the 68040 (though a few 68060s were sold). So they came up with the
Great, more of this... (Score:4, Insightful)
Awesome, and 6 months later and a few installs of various packages, your phone rings and you see this:
A system error has occurred:
ODBC-OLE error 864: Can't connect to object. Please contact your vendor
Call rejected.
Re:Great, more of this... (Score:5, Funny)
Just what I've always wanted, a $2000 Caller ID box.
Re:Great, more of this... (Score:3, Funny)
"The Athens PC has a built-in telephone linked to Microsoft"..
I instantly imagined a call from a MS representative the instant your attempt to do MS does n't approve of.. imagine:
"Hello?"
"I'm sorry Dave I can't let you do that"
Re:Great, more of this... (Score:3, Insightful)
That contact info thing in the so-called Microsoft productivity application has been a standard part of HP's telephone support package for some time. You can buy fingerprint readers now, off th
a dangerous precident.... (Score:4, Interesting)
That was set years and years ago. (Score:3, Interesting)
It is just me... (Score:2)
and I Quote... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is on a similar track??? A similar track? They built the f*cking track 10 years ago and Microsoft and the other PC vendors are on a hand-cart like laurrel and hardy trying to catch up. Similar track my arse! Apple are so far down the track it's not funny, MS will be coming up with a new online music distribution service next.
Oh come on.. (Score:5, Funny)
1990s MS: "We are not a monopoly."
2000s MS: "We can't compete fairly, lock out the competition."
2010s MS: "Would you like Fries with that?"
Re:Oh come on.. (Score:3, Insightful)
In an industry that has been in the doldrums the last few years, Microsoft consistently has made dumptrucks full of money. Despite their shady dealings and lawsuits, they still register as a respectable company with most Americans. What they can't accomplish through marketing, they will through lobbying.
Microsoft is not going away. Their power will increase until they control every facet of your digital world.
Thumb Prints and DRM (Score:2)
Re:Thumb Prints and DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
yawn.
Microsoft encourages new standards all the time and its no big deal. Previous deals with them produced both USB and cd-roms and every computer. It has benefited us. They do this because Sun and Apple have the benefit of controlling their own machines and setting standards. MS wants more security and an answer to bluetooth which is standard on all new macs.
In 1998 slashdotters critized Microsoft for supporting USB as a way to kill Linux. Today its greatly supported and any usb keyboard or mouse will be reconignzed by it.
If you are right and this shit happens then you can buy a mac.
However customers will not put up with that crap from WMA if apple ports itunes to Windows with more liberal licensing. Competition is strong.
I am sick of all this anti ms fud(even though I hate them) here. I found none of it in the actual story.
New tech support for M$ (Score:5, Interesting)
When the hardware receives an incoming call, the software automatically pulls up the caller's contact information and photo if the data are stored on the system.
Well, time to get to work today...
No, too fat... Hm, no picture? No support... Yikes! Fugly, no help for you... Whoa, hold on a minute! Yes, Tech Support is ready to hump- er help you!
MS doing illegal stuff again. (Score:2, Informative)
This is going to be interesting. If i recall correctly, the dutch personal privacy laws don't allow the automatic retrieval of caller information. (although is it allowed when you manually copy the number from one program to another, don't ask me why) Again, microsoft is doing something illegal. I wonder if they would disable the feature on the
I thought linux (Score:2, Insightful)
by that I mean a tightly integrated and easy to use dekstop. call me a troll if you like, but either this is not an area in which "we" want to expand, or we just aren't doing it.
I don't care personally, because I won't buy one whatever OS it runs, because I am a programmer, and this product is not for me.
Talking out of both sides of their mouth (Score:2)
Microsoft created the stagnant PC industry. And now they are trying to save it. Kudos to them! LOL
I know who they're targeting with this PC.... (Score:5, Funny)
Uh-huh...
Hmmm (Score:3, Insightful)
This means the following
if IBM doesn't buy Sun [slashdot.org]before HP (who's also mentioned), then the PC market will be dead because Microsft will reverse IBM's PC specs opening which led us to the OEM world.
Meanwhile, it would be a good idea to buy Apple stocks, because they'll be the only ones who will sell anyway.
Linux can't get locked out (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure no matter what MS puts in this "new" hardware, the hackers will find a way to make Linux run on it no problem. They'll probably do some crap with signing the software, like on the XBox. The big questions are, will hacking it void your warrantee, will hacking it violate the DMCA, etc. Obviously no legitimate business is going to violate the law in order to get Linux to run on an MS computing appliance.
Anyway I doubt if it's really going to be THAT different from current PC hardware. In fact the core architecture probably won't be ANY different. What we're seeing here is probably a group of bundled proprietary officially supported USB devices or something with extra special attention paid to the drivers courtesy of MS. Basicly it's just an appliance computer, which like the iOpeners aren't really any different hardware-wise from real computers.
So in that case there's not much stopping any other industry group from getting together and setting other open standards for this type of operation. Sorry MS, but using caller ID to pull up a person's picture when they call is NOT revolutionary. The important thing here is that it's an integrated appliance system. It's not a tough system to implement, and I'm sure we could see decent OSS solutions pretty quickly.
I just wonder how proprietary the hardware and software components of this system are really going to be... I guess that remains to be seen.
Decline and fall of the general purpose computer (Score:5, Insightful)
It's starting to happen. PDAs are finally starting to get good. Smartphones are starting to do relatively well in the States. The iPod. The Tablet PC. The Xbox, as gaming consoles have proved the viability of this type of model for over a decade. This is just the next step.
Stagnant industry? (Score:3, Interesting)
Uhh... Last time I checked, the "stagnant" industry was getting a nice kick in the ass from the beautiful hardware coming from Apple.
Re:Stagnant industry? (Score:3, Funny)
Apple Computer 1 year chart. [yahoo.com]
Pie in the Sky (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok, the first thing that comes to mind is those network PC's I haven't heard bugger about since the big dotcom dive in corporate spending. If they were a good idea (well, maybe this isn't a well thought out argument, feel free to disagree) they'd be on a lot of desktops by now. Think how much it would save the PHB in tech support.
The comparison to Apple is a natural. But, IMHO, Apple survives because they have a loyal following and many of their innovations are just that, innovations, not copied like *cough* *cough* Microsoft does (Embrace and extend ... this always reminds me of the phrase 'share and enjoy'...)
Apple, as far as I can say doesn't try to lock users into their hardware/environment, mostly just happens, but similar software exists on MS Windows and Linus so users are free to leave if they choose. Athens appears a clear ploy to further lock owners not only into
Microsoft Brand Windows Operating System, but Microsoft software products as well, i.e. This product only available for Brand A computer, 'cause all the patents belong to us. Buy these things and you limit your options. Ideal for the manager who
wants to have absolute control, but like IBM's PS/2 systems, a real mess if you want to upgrade or change anything.
While the current PC is a pretty sordid mess, an open standard would be infinitely preferable, for system makers as well as customers.
Deep in Redmond headquarters... (Score:3, Funny)
MS Marketing Guy : Our new plan is to create a proprietry hardware platform and lock the Linux rebels out of the desktop! This "Athens" PC will be the ultimate power in the universe!
Darth Gates : Do not be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to monopolize a desktop is insignificant, next to the power of the Source. (breathes heavily)
HP supports linux (Score:4, Informative)
This is not new, and it is good. (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been to every WinHEC for the last few years and every year Microsoft is urging the hardware vendors to drop the legacy stuff. ISA slots suck and make Plug-and-Play a miserable experience, but we're only now seeing their complete and total death in new products. Microsoft and Intel pushed the standards to get rid of them.
Most PCs are built from standard components with standard dimensions and standard interfaces. Everything is interchangable. That decoupling has made the PC industry great and driven prices way down, but the Apple counterexample shows what tight integration and some design sense can buy you in both hardware and software. Both Microsoft and Intel would like to see a bit more innovation going on, and WinHEC is one place that they try to make their case.
Thank you. (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft has taken a few good turns recently.
Microsoft working closer with hardware vendors to get faster implemented USB 2.1 support or even a radical simplification of the PC specification is a great thing. Combine this with the previously announced reduction in the number of API calls from 79k to 8k, and the drastically needed updating of the file system, and you have the makings of a Monopoly realizing that what it sells is ga
Good to see some progress here! (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, the usual Slashdot-spin tagline. Gotta love 'em.
PCs have become messes, and it's a worthy goal to try to deal with that. Kudos to Apple for taking some steps in the right direction, such as eliminating floppy drives and switching to LCD monitors for home models. That's just the beginning. PCs are still based around what's essentially become pointless upgrading, something that is now completely ignored by everyone except a certain set of gamers and hardware fanboys. (If you aren't shooting for bleeding edge games, any video card made since 2000 and any sound card made since 1995--including motherboard sound--is just grand.)
Linux, for me, is only worthwhile if it improves the overall computing experience. It does that well, for some things, but for others it has become a retro object d'art. Perhaps the most damning thing about Linux is the hugely conservative community surrounding it. Cries of "If you want change then _you_ do it" and endless arguments about sticking with Emacs and the X11 standard are all so inbred and meaningless. I will make fun of Microsoft along with everyone else as long as Bill Gates & company are stagnant and producing poor products. But as much as I hate to say it, they're moving forward with some interesting ideas. Sure, those ideas aren't original (what is?) but the key is that they have a direction and purpose.
Re:Good to see some progress here! (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't about being a visionary or producing fabulously 'neat' products. It is about control. If I can make a system that locks you into my products, you have no choice but to purchase what I'm offering.
This is the same as the incestuous relationship that Ma Bell had with Western Electric. You couldn't get a telephone of your own and hook it up to the network. You could RENT their telephone. You couldn't use a modem without their permission. You couldn't put an autodialer on your phone system, despite the fact that the circuitry was easily obtained in hobby magazines and the parts were available in Radio Shack's bins.
No, the approach Microsoft and HP are taking isn't about providing you with better products. Theirs is the same mindset as the rapist: its not about sex, its about control.
Be careful, or you might just get fucked by Microsoft and HP.
Re:Good to see some progress here! (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on now. You've been give at least 4 quality free Windowing toolkits (GTK, QT, TK, and wxWindows) all well documented with full source code. You've been given every possible language to program in and nearly every library has a binding to every goofy language imaginable. You've been given at least 3 IDE's for C/C++ that are comparable with Visual C++, a whole slew of editors to program the scripting flavor of the month, boatloads of documentation including free commercial quality books on programming. You've got at least a dozen apps to mimic each and every commonly used windows app (FTP clients, WinZip clones, Media Players, Office Suites, Image Editors, etc etc) And to top it all off 1/3 of this stuff has been ported to Windows so you don't have to even deal with GNU/Linux itself.
If it's conservative given all of this to expect the endless stream of people with ideas to get off their asses and write something to show how perfect their idea is, then yes, the Free software community is quite conservative.
You should take a look at the forums on HappyPenguin. [happypenguin.org] At least once a week someone shows up with an "idea" for a game that they want someone else to write for them, for free. Get a grip, ideas are a dime a dozen. I want to see it working before I contribute my free time to helping impliment someone else's ideas.
some uncle (Score:5, Funny)
yeah, more like a rich uncle who has some goons beat the shit out of the grocery delivery man, then straps you to a table and feeds you cold oatmeal with cat urine and roaches in it.
While calling your mother and telling her that you've gone on a health-food kick.
Journalism? (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean: "Like a rich uncle sending a check when the cupboards are bare, Microsoft today is unveiling an ambitious plan to help computer makers develop a new generation of PCs and reinvigorate the stagnant industry." Anyone would think MS is the new Santa Claus, driven not by desire for profit and market domination, but pure hearted generosity and compassion for all the poor, poor computer manufacturers.
Can't We Just Have.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Do I really want my monitor shell to pulse when I get an email? Are you out of your mind? How is that supposed to make me more productive?
Do I really want Athens throwing a Borg arm out to the rest of my deskspace?
How do I fix this thing if it breaks?
How hard is it to enter a user name and password over a fingerprint?
Just let a device be a device. Let it alone already.
T.
My favourite quote (Score:4, Insightful)
It may also help the company fend off competition from Apple and freely shared software.
Poor little Microsoft, trying to eke out a living on the fringes of the computer industry, threatened by the monopoly held by Apple and their free software buddies!
Seriously, though, there is something to be made of all this. Long-term, Microsoft is legitimately threatened by free software. This is why they are getting more and more into hardware, like XBox and services, like HotMail. They are moving their software away from a purchase model to a rental model.
Things could get very interesting when a critical mass of Microsoft's customer start realizing that something like MySQL is actually superior to SQL Server, and look Ma, no price tag! If we think Microsoft acts loutish now, wait until they are legitimately threatened!
Too much (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the biggest reason why the industry is slumping is that most of the people who want a computer at home have one. It does what they need it to and they do not have a compelling reason to blow $1,000 every year or two to keep up with technology. Year before the year before lasts computer is fast enough and reliable enough for what they need. I don't think HP cloning Apple with M$ software embedded in it is going to make them change their mind.
For the geeks, however, the extra horsepower is used probably as much as it is desired. These same people, however, are the least likely to want to be bundled to M$. I think M$ would be better served to make what they have work without the requisite ripping out of hair every few days.
Another $.02 into poverty...
Strategy NOT Open-Source (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing was called "Open Source" on the webpage for Linux. It's all called "freely shared", as in illegal music files.
It might be my paranoid side talking, but that was the scariest part of the article, not trying to lock out Linux, but making it sound like "freely shared" is a BAD thing (It's illegal to "freely share" MS Office, or Windows, or MP3's).
They are correct in this future assessment (Score:3, Interesting)
Most people don't want a big confusing monster on their desk, they want it as simple as a toaster and as disposable as a Bic lighter.
Not that *I* like this future for my home, but we are heading towards it, step by step.. We are already there in some businesses ( aka: terminal server/winterms ), but home world will take some time to catch up ( or is that : to come 'full circle' back to the days where computing was done in the backroom, and you just had your little display window to view it.. the way it should be really in a business environment ).
It only makes business sense for them to push in this direction. Nothing sinister implied in their actions, just market control and maximizing profits. its what a business does.. ( or if it don't, its not a business much longer )
Microsoft: Good Luck! (Score:3, Informative)
While Apple's boxes aren't particularly special or different from PCs in basic parts (RAM, power supply, hard drives), the three core differences: processor, motherboard, and bootware, define what that box is and how it interacts.
Now, a PC bought today can still, in all likelihood, run MS-DOS 6.2, 3.3, Windows 3.1, or Windows 95. That is because the PC architecture hasn't really changed to the extent that operating systems and hardware are markedly different, speed improvements and interface additions notwithstanding. A PC has always been extensible, but such a new box may find it hard to get third-parties to make their hardware work.
If Microsoft were to build a Mac-like PC, they would need to make or use a smarter boot firmware. Bye-bye to the typical BIOS we know and love. That action alone would require various Linux distros to rewrite themselves for the new firmware. OK--not a biggie. Linux users did that for the Mac version of Linux. Next, the motherboard would need changes to make it smarter and work with the firmware. That's a lot of OS changes I presume, although IANAP.
Plug and play devices are still a laugh, and it would be the one thing I hope a plan would fix. Microsoft tried to dictate hardware changes during Windows 95's intro, and most of it was for the best. But even today, Windows takes several minutes to determine what the hell you have in your box. A Mac never goes through this process--at least not in a way that you are aware of. Plug and play on a Mac just works.
I don't know. I get it, but it seems that they are fighting a larger animal--the inertia of the marketplace and a desire to stay and do what they are doing. New stuff is shunned unless it looks like a gold mine. And this isn't golden, IMO.
Can anyone say.. (Score:3, Interesting)
This reminds of a tale long ago, not so far away (Score:3, Interesting)
The parallel here is so close that its amazing, particularly since Microsoft has now become the huge monolithic company instead of the plucky upstart that wants an open standard.
I doubt they can do it successfully (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux made its way into the Xbox, and can easily make it into any system that is based on x86. Should Microsoft move to a non-x86 architecture it will be the best thing that ever happened to Linux, Apple and Sun. Microsoft will never shift from x86, and Linux can always be made to boot in face of any mod chips and drm technologies..
If nothing else, a win32 version of loadlin could be made that will replace everything in the memory with a linux kernel and boot it. All the while people would stick to their clone PCs trying out Linux once in a while. I think Microsoft execs have been smoking some Redmond grass and need to see the only leverage they have in the market is the huge pile of x86 code that wont execute anywhere else. Theres really no other reason for people not to move to Linux.
Lock Linux out? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Could they fly? (Score:2)
What makes you think that Athens won't require digitally signed software (TCPA/Palladium/whatever MS calls it this week)? Yes, people got Linux running on the Xbox, but only with a mod chip or by exploiting a bug in a specific game. I rather doubt that someone who buys an HP Athens computer is going to want to run Linux on it if that requires a hardware mod or running some lame game every time you want to boot.
Re:Could they fly? (Score:2)
Re:So much for M$'s one redeeming contribution... (Score:3, Insightful)
The PC would have gotten exactly nowhere without an OS (crappy as Win3x was) to take along for the ride. A few 'killer apps' like Lotus 1-2-3, Word, Excel, PageMaker and Corel DRAW! helped as well.
That's the biggest irony in open source 'advocacy'. According to people like ESR, Microsoft set the computing world back at least a decade
Re:So much for M$'s one redeeming contribution... (Score:3, Interesting)
This 'relentless march' has to be driven by something. Mainly sales (i.e., money and the incentive to make it). That driving force was Windows 3x, whether you like it or not.
Otherwise the PC would have been confined to businesses and used either like a typewriter or a small mainframe. Certainly the consumer market for PCs wouldn't have existed. What we'd had ended up with is more expensive and proprietary Ma