Matchbox Sized Color Projectors? 193
Justin Nolan sent in a very brief link about
ultra small projectors which says
"Upstream Engineering is willing to provide miniature color video projectors for use with portable video player, travel TV, laptops and handhelds next year. Upstream's patented technology, called Photon Vacuum, maximizes the amount of photons sent to the target from the light source in a minimum space and allows the creation of devices free of a variety of components currently used in projectors that unnecessarily waste energy. Photon Vacuum enables the smallest projector designs in the world, ultimately to a size of matchbox. The company says is going to push the power consumption of the whole device ultimately to below 4 watts while still gaining a travel-TV sized color projection" You can also read Upstream's website for almost as little information.
Cost (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Cost (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cost (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Cost (Score:5, Interesting)
Other portables are around 1000-2000.
Wall/ceiling mounts are 3000-4000 lumens.
You get what you pay for, even if it is Swedish.
Re:Cost (Score:2, Interesting)
Anything that saves me from spending $350 on a friggin light bulb ($700 if you carry a spare) is a welcome trend.
Even Thomas Edison could make a bulb that lasted beyond 70 hours with proper cooling...
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cost (Score:3, Interesting)
What light output is right for you really depends on several factors. Room lighting, the screen you project on, how large that screen is, these are all factors. Also, the display technology plays a part: if you get a DLP projector, you will need to have a bulb almost twice as bright as one in an LCD projector, if you want to ha
Re:Cost (Score:3, Informative)
Well, at 640x480 I'm not so sure. Seems way too lo-rez, especially for vaporware, no matter the price... (And reading the articles in their archive, I'm Swedish -- too, Mr. nickname-from-nastiest-'food'-in-Swedish-cuisine ;) -- they claimed "600x800" in October 2002 [kistaapplications.se], article in Swedish.)
Furthermore, their current data/spec. on rez and price are (still) their own "target values".
From what I gather, they do have some new kind of cooling system (patents pending), which they claim is good enough to make next-
Cheap! (Score:1, Interesting)
The holy grail!
Chris
Re:Cheap! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure you can (Score:2, Insightful)
Pick 2. you can't have all three.
You can have just about anything you want for any price you want--you just have to be willing to wait until somebody comes up with it.
Re:Cheap! (Score:2, Insightful)
You think computers were destined to be the size of houses?
Re:Cheap! (Score:2)
Why?
Re:Cheap! (Score:2)
Yes, but you will have to replace the colour filters every three months, otherwise the screen will go blurry, your Powerpoint presentations will jam and your warranty will be invalidated.
Already gone... (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyone got a mirror?
Re:Already gone... (Score:2)
I tried the mirror, but all I see is the unshaven face of an unemployeed IT worker.
Now if only.... (Score:3, Funny)
making a big screen (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:making a big screen (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if this tech could be scaled up to make larger brighter projectors that are still small and low on power consumption, th
Re:making a big screen (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember a time, not long ago that 32'' was considered big screen.....
Now you need a room with an empty wall the size of Texas for a big screen TV. What's next, wrap around TV for 2 or more walls?
wbs.
Re:making a big screen (Score:2)
Re:making a big screen (Score:3, Insightful)
>>> I remember a time, not long ago that 32'' was considered big screen...
No kidding.
I have a very different interpretation: On their website (if you go through all the links) you see them repeatedly mention "size of current mobile screens". Think of the mobile DVD players and current "mobile LCD" screens.
That's right. 8-15 inches.
Interesting little company, 5 people - 1 "manager" and 4 engineers.
Re:making a big screen (Score:2)
When they said "portable TV," I was thinking of the 13" travel-trailer models that are so popular. Still, if something that fits in my pocket could combine a Stowaway keyboard [thinkoutside.com] and contain all the functionality of a stripped-down laptop (think current high-end handheld with maybe 5 GB of storage) and include the full-size keyboard that the Stowaway provides, as well as a projected 13" screen (rollup?), I'd be tickled.
Sorry for the hellish run-on sentance. You know how it goes when an idea (d
Think bigger (Score:2)
Re:making a big screen (Score:5, Funny)
Surely you meant:
Now, if lots of these min-projectors could be put together in a beowulf cluster ...
Re:making a big screen (Score:2, Informative)
Re:So what you're saying is.. (Score:2)
You must be new here! :->
Funny:
Troll:
The distinctions are subtle, but if you waste enough time he
Power Consumption (Score:5, Interesting)
Although I dont know what im going to do whith such a tiny proyector, maybe i'll put it in my back pockent and sit on it afterwards and break it. Or have it stuck in a child's ear.
Re:Power Consumption (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know - my matchbox-sized fridge isn't selling too well...
Jens
Re:Power Consumption (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know - my matchbox-sized fridge isn't selling too well...
Finally, a fridge that Ken can keep his beer cold with.
Who needs a demanding, anorexic bitch like Barbie when you have cold beer.
This explains their break-up.
Re:Power Consumption (Score:2)
But who's going to get the beer for Ken?
Dream on! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Dream on! (Score:5, Insightful)
So... at 100% conversion, how much power does, say, your average 17" monitor put out in terms of light? (not counting heat, etc)
You might be surprised just how bright 4 watts of pure light is.
a 100W tungsten incandescent light bulb is about 2.6% efficent.... or 17.5 lumens/watt so 1750 lumens.
Good tungsten halogen bulbs, 3.6% (3.6W) or 2500 lumens for a 100W source.
So.. a matchbox projector with 4W of output with a 100% luminous efficiency would give us, say, 650lm/W * 4W = 2600 lumens...
If you google around for projectors, you'll find that for $2000 you can get around a 2200 lumen projector.
That's a 200W lamp.
Re:Dream on! (Score:2)
Also at 4 watts its producing a "travel-TV sized" projection. What's a travel TV? Like 13"? 5"?
I don't think this is going after the powerpoint or home theater markets.
Re:Dream on! (Score:5, Informative)
Assume: 2 watts of that are dedicated to the generation of light for that projection.
Possibilities:
1) Use a white light source, which means (for that size and power level) white LEDs. Those are commercially available at 25 lumens/watt. This gives us 50 lumens, which will not make for a wall-sized image viewable except perhaps in pitch-black darkness. However, for a smaller image... say, 16"x12"?
By 2005, 60 lumens/watt white LEDs will be out of the lab and into the market. This allows for our hypothetical projector to realize 120 lumens, or roughly 1/10 the output power of an 1100 lumen projector. You could make a 32" x 24" (40" diagonal) image at the same brightness as that 1100 lumen projector makes an 8' x 6' image.
2) use multiple colored light sources, again LEDs. Most of the 'brightness' comes from the green, less from the red, least from the blue. You can assume 50 lumens / watt off the shelf right now, which probably means a 32" - 40" diagonal image from those 2 watts, at the same brightness as an 1100 lumen projector making an 8' x 6' image.
Conclusion: *current* technology allows for TV-sized images to be produced, at brightnesses similar to those of larger images from brighter projectors, from only 2 watts of input power to the optical source.
Sources: Don's LED Page [misty.com].
Disclaimer: comment author has been an A/V professional since 1987, holds masters in EE.
Why? Check your math (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't forget that while the projector won't be 100% efficient, neither is a light bulb.
Re:Dream on! (Score:3, Funny)
You could do it twice... once per eye.
Re:Dream on! (Score:4, Funny)
You could do it twice... once per eye.
You know, I think he might have a hard time aiming the laser for the second try with a hole through his head. Just a thought.
-Adam
4W is possible. (Score:2)
It is possible to push the power consumption of the whole device ultimately to below 4 watts while still gaining a travel-TV sized color projection.
Well, a 15-inch LCD panel consumes about 30W, all in. I don't know how big a travel-TV is, but less say it's 7.5inches. Assuming power is proportional to area, then an LCD 7.5-inch travel TV would consume 7.5W. I assume some of that power is absorbed in the colour filters, and some more is lost in the polarizer, and some is used by the TF
Danger Flag! (Score:2)
I hope they are able to do what they claim, but I'm always wary of companies that claim to have overcome the laws of physics.
Maybe I'm just bitter after getting burned on that anti-gravity skateboard deal.
Re:Power Consumption (Score:2)
That's already a major design criterium for many IC-designers. Mostly thanks to the popularity of portable gadgets like MP3 players and the lack of a powerfull portable energy source that's small and light enough.
(While you could power a MP3 player with a 7.5Ah lead accu, it wouldn't be very popular because of it's weight and size)
I've got 2 NiMH rechargeable batteries (AA; 1.2V; 1800mAh), these last for about 1.5h in my M
Vaporware! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Vaporware! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Vaporware! (Score:2)
The reason those projectors get so hot is that a lot of the light is in the Infrared band. Effectively just more photons, but at a useless waveleng
Re:Vaporware! (Score:4, Funny)
Vapor can not exist in Vacuum.
Ubiquitous Projection (Score:5, Interesting)
I see only services offered... (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure something useful will come, eventually, but don't hold your breath waiting for anything cool to buy any time soon.
Photon vacuum or product vacuum (Score:3, Funny)
I call BS (Score:5, Interesting)
It doesn't follow that it's impossible - on the contrary, I think this is a technology we'll be seeing very soon - I just doubt that it will be from this company.
So why do I think we'll be seeing it soon ? Simple, grasshopper. Lasers. It's easy enough to build a poor quality monochrome vector display out of a laser diode and a couple of mirrors on motors. That's expensive and clunky.
A laser diode and a couple of piezo-transducer-mounted mirrors would be a slightly more elegant mechanism, and if you can build a vector display with this, you ought just as easily to be able to build a raster display.
So all we're missing is the cheap green laser diode and the cheap blue laser diode to complement the existing cheap red laser diode.
Now, you CAN buy a green laser pointer that's only moderately painfully expensive - and now that there's an imminent demand for blue laser diodes for high density DVD players I'm hoping their cost will plummet.
I don't have the skills to build this, but I'm hoping someone will get onto it soon.
D.
Re:I call BS (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't actually expect laser projection displays to go anywhere. The advantage of a laser for projection is its high brightness (intensity in a small area). That's great for vector display where you want to "draw" bright lines. When you use a scanning laser for a raster display you lose this advantage, though. You need the same amount (intensity) of light with a laser as you would with ordinary projection. Unless the laser is more energy efficient than the ordinary projector, you're better off with the latter.
There are also safety/legal issues with laser projection. Any laser bright enough for a large projection display is dangerous if it stops scanning. The projectors of course have interlocks that shut off the laser if the raster scan jams or stops, but such a system could fail or be defeated by someone with malicious intent.
Re:I call BS (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this going to be the new thing to stop the potential advancement of any new technology? Really this should be a non issue - the equivalent would be your local hardware store worrying about selling boards, nails, and hammers - all at once! And god forbid to the same person (what if someone with malicious intent combines the three to obtain a board with a nail at the end?).
Re:I call BS (Score:3, Informative)
Funny, the same thing could be said of cathode ray tubes. You know, that technology that is only now starting to be supplanted by LCDs? CRTs were great for line-drawing applications like oscilloscop
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
A laser with this properties WILL burn holes in skin, wood, paper, cloth or eyes if he stop for more than a few doutzend ms on one spot.
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
What about if you fire the laser through some sort of 'light fuse' that will cut it off if the laser stops scanning? Might be complicated to build but would eliminate the problem...
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
With a projector, there is free space between the laser and the projection surface.
How do you stop people from accidentially put their hand before the lens? Or looking into the projector to see if its on?
I agree that completely stopping would be a rare case, but at those laser intensities EVERYTHING is awfully dangerous.
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
For true energy efficiency, you'll need to go with single-wavelength light sources, whether they be LED, laser LED, or something equivalent. With the current projector technology, we will never break 33% efficiency - we filter white light through a variety of technologies (LCDs, color wheels, multiple bu
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
It is vapor.. (Score:2)
Throw this in with the 1 terabyte removable drive promised a year ago
Re:It is vapor.. (Score:2)
If we were never concerened with what "could be," nothing would ever "be".... er... are.
Re:I call BS (Score:2)
light sources (not lasers) that are bright enough, cheap enough and monochromatic enough. They currently use white light and coloured filters - but those lamps are EXPENSIVE and they break fairly frequently.
Those devices are down to maybe six inches on a side and an inch or
I could have some fun (Score:1, Redundant)
Fake... (Score:5, Insightful)
Mirror from creators website (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.upstream.fi/index.html
The Technology
http://www.upstream.fi/technology.htm
Upstream's unique and revolutionary technology, called Photon Vacuum, practically maximizes the amount of photons sent to the target from the light source in a minimum space. This is not an easy trick since the etendue law of light in physics requires more space for better efficiency. Our special technology enables us to get rid of a variety of components currently used in projectors that unnecessarily waste energy. The current table projectors extract typically only a few watts of light power out of 200W of input power.
Photon Vacuum enables the smallest projector designs in the world, ultimately to a size of matchbox. It is possible to push the power consumption of the whole device ultimately to below 4 watts while still gaining a travel-TV sized color projection. There are a myriad of possible applications for this technology.
First in the world, Upstream Engineering introduces a revolutionary optical technology that will enable video projection from matchbox-sized device running on batteries.
Our expertise covers all the necessary areas from micro-optics to low-power digital electronics. We design custom projectors based on our unique technology.
Re:Mirror from creators website (Score:3, Informative)
We are constantly looking for talent in optical and electrical design.
The requirements for Optical Engineers:
- university degree in physics with good grades
- experience with Matlab and optical design software
- proven ability to learn fast
- minimum 3 years of work experience
The requirements for Electrical Engineers:
- university degree in Electrical Eng. with good grades
- experience in electronics design and preferably embedded software
-
website down (Score:5, Funny)
Re:website down (Score:2, Funny)
Pretty Nice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Pretty Nice (Score:4, Insightful)
If it can really be that small, it could eventually be integrated with the laptop.
Won't be long. (Score:4, Funny)
Pretty soon, when you fly on an airplane, every time someone leans back their seat you'll hear the person behind them whine "hey! you're keystoning my screen, man!"
This + Cameraphone (Score:4, Funny)
Vaporware? (Score:5, Insightful)
What technology? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What technology? (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps they are trolling for VC cash, in which case it should be called wallet vaccuum.
this is needed (Score:2)
This product (if it's not vapor) looks like it could be a great advance in this technology. I use a "regular" size projector daily and it's a pain in the butt to move the whole setup when we go on the road.
The other issue is price; a decent LCD project costs $2K. If they could get the price down to under $500, that would be big. As it is, we have to move projectors quite often due to the c
projectors are meant to be moved... (Score:2)
at 500$- no one would buy large screen tv's ever again...
Advertise with them! (Score:2, Interesting)
yes, this will be a great tool for on-the-go presenters, but damn, i can hear the smiles on the marketing dept's collective face.
I predict Vaporware (Score:3, Interesting)
I need to finish reading what papers I can find regarding this concept, but so far it looks like something still in the arena of pure science. One article also refers to carbon nano tubes, so if this isn't vapor ware it will be expensive.
practical applications... (Score:3, Funny)
take it on a plane that still uses 'large screen at the front' and show your own movies
following a bus at night- project it on the rear of the bus, drive safely and watch a movie/tv (dear, your are getting to close to the screen)
put one on the rear of your motorcycle- pointed at your jacket, for various phrases to roll through-- should realy confuse someone somewhere..
inverted peeping tom- sneak around vidding porn into peoples houses-think what happened when laser pointers first came out- then multiply X the number of porn movies ever made
I thought science... (Score:2, Interesting)
Why can't science be for the good of all not just for the ruling class? I hate it when people come up with good ideas then think they have to patent them.
What would we be allowed to know about physics if Einstein patented his ideas? We'd have to pay to use E=mc^2.
Science is about profit not discovering great things and sharing them with the world.
Re:I thought science... (Score:3, Informative)
The alternative is trade secrets: inventors keep their inventions secret to protect their financial gain, but lose everything when someone else figures out what they did.
Nowadays the meaning of patents has been distorted badly, but they are a good thing in their original formulation
Technical Detals? (Score:2)
argh! (Score:2)
Re:argh! (Score:2)
Why not make it so that if someone IS that determined, it actually breaks said device so it cannot be used...?
Always thought that would be cool. I've had people break into my car to steal cheap stereos before, and always thought it would be neat do set the stereo up so that it was effectively "dead" if the person tried to use it.
On the other hand, they'd probably just try to sell it to a pawn shop anyways.
Yeah! (Score:2)
Pocket projectors from other projects (Score:5, Informative)
this summer about a pair of other pocket projector projects. These includes using an array of lasers to limit scanning or a single higher powered light-source. If 'pocket' is the only thing that matters you might also look into a development of normal bar-code scanners. [symbol.com]
Look at a calendar (Score:5, Funny)
Someone jumped the gun here.
power per square inch? (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anyone have a figure for the amount of light needed per square foot for good visibility on a screen with normal meeting room lighting? Assume solid state light source efficiency levels.
There are two interesting parts to their claims. One is reduction in size, the other is reduction in power requirements. The statement above from their website leads me to believe they're really just reducing the size of the device - the 4W figure is spread over just a few square inches. When they need to cover several square feet the power consumption will increase proportionally, and so will the size of the device to allow for adequate cooling.
Willing to provide??? (Score:2, Funny)
Willing to provide???
Infinium is willing to provide Hard OCP a lawsuit. Television networks are willing to provide good entertainment. The government is willing to provide conclusive evidence of foreign WMD programs.
A lot of people are willing to provide things -doesnt mean that it will happen.
I think someone should be willing to provide Upstream an alternative to Babelfish.
Willing to? Great! (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, most companies would keep this kind of tech to themselves, to impress their friends!
You Think Laptop Heat Dispersion is Bad? (Score:2)
Re:You Think Laptop Heat Dispersion is Bad? (Score:2)
A laptop dissipates upwards of 60w directly into your lap...your cell phone battery that warms up while talking, is probably about 4w of heat -- if even that. The battery is 3.3-some V, which means its pushing just over 1.2A of current.
Willing... (Score:2)
Now thats either really poorly translated from Japanese or something, or that's a really ego-centric business.. Willing? WILLING? I'm paying you money, you better be willing.
Best I can figure... (Score:4, Informative)
This would provide several advantages. First, it would be fairly efficient since 4W of LED power is still fairly efficient (though still 'hot' and not close at all to the ideal 100%). The cheap LCD display due to the lower heat. Small size, especially if high index refrective lenses are used.
Disadvantages are many. Traditional projectors use a bulb which, for all intents and purposes can be modelled as a point light source. Optics are easy, comparatively. For a LED array the optics would be...non trivial. I suppose they could be using single LEDs but even then the leds are seperated, which still makes the job difficult. Another is that the smaller the package, the smaller the optics. The smaller the optics the worse the image. There's a reason you'll never get 4 meter telescope pictures out of a 10cm telescope. The resolving power of the lenses is limited by their size. The LED element will be huge compared to the lens size, and the picture is simply going to be poor.
It'll happen, through this speculative idea or through another, but real multimedia projectors for a given size projection have to be at least as large as the lens has to be for the quality you want. The only thing they might be able to make gains on without ruining the quality are lamp efficiency, lower heat output (these are coupled), and the design of the lens systems currently needed to throw a decent image across a room.
-Adam
Mini Projectors in Film (Score:2, Interesting)
Pictures of the prototype (Score:2, Informative)
Kaleva's story [kaleva.fi]
Bigger picture [kaleva.fi]
The caption of the picture says: Prototype and a matchbox. World's smallest videoprojector consists of a lightning machine, which captures light more efficiently. There is also text about the future screen resolutions and the cost of the thing, 700? at first and later 250?.
Re:Aw man... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Remote control (Score:2)
Brings up an interesting question. If the projector is smaller than an AC power cord and a VGA cable, how do you plug anything into it? And since the cables will weigh more than the hardware, how to you keep it in one place? Won't it slide around every time you touch a wire near it?