High Tech Tour de France 221
jefu writes "As you may know, the 2006 Tour de France finished yesterday with an American, Floyd Landis, the overall winner. This years Tour had a very nice
live website, including frequent news postings and a flash interface that showed the gaps between the lead riders updated every couple of minutes. The site was taking up to 35,000 hits per minute. There is lots of technology involved in this race, including carbon fiber bikes, serious aerodynamic studies to improve the bikes, the helmets and even the riders. There are also bike transponders, GPS trackers , fancy radio systems to connect the riders to the team cars, online database access to race statistics, and probably lots more."
Oh.. nice.. (Score:3, Funny)
Team Discovery: (Score:2)
I'm glad that worked out so well for Team Discovery, especially without Amstrong.
What the fuck is this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Umm... Oops?
Re:What the fuck is this? (Score:5, Informative)
Hushovd did recover though; he won the final stage in Paris.
Re:What the fuck is this? (Score:2)
For one thing, look at the times. That is news created live in an extremely chaotic situation. That's how it goes, mistakes happen.
For another, he was bleeding profusely after being hit by a bit of merchandise held by a stupid spectator while cycling 60+ km/h, he was in a terrible state (needed lots of stitches), but he did not actually crash, he managed to stay on his bike. It's easy to see how that little confusion happened.
That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:4, Informative)
I love Le Tour, but the spectators are fucking retards. I remember watching a video (cannot find it now) where Lance was coming through the home stretch and the crowd was parting as he approached, not more than a meter in front of him. (Then getting in the way of other riders, causing them to have to slow or swerve.) Imagine biking as fast as you can through a dense crowd of dense people, just hoping that nobody trips or does something else stupid. And for those not in the know, brakes on road bikes are not what you expect. Almost exactly the opposite of mountain bike brakes, they are not intended to stop you, just trim your speed. If you face an obstacle your only real option is to go around it. Also, you never just stop flat-out in a pack unless you want to become a third wheel for the guys behind you.
Re:That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:2)
Re:That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:3, Informative)
It is true that the spectators have caused their share of crashes. The crowds on the slopes of the mountain stages are just ridiculous. In towns, they are usually kept behind barriers. Hushvod got cut jockeying for position in a mass sprint in a town.
But you are wrong about the brakes. At anything like reasonable speeds, say below 40mph I can lock up the tires just fine in my 2004 Raleigh Grand Prix road bike with a good, hard squeeze. I'd skid out of control and take about half the life out of my $30
Re:That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:3, Informative)
I'd guess that he's probably right.
If I'm right, your bike has rims branded as "Equation" that are made from alloy.
A good number of the competitors in the Tour are using carbon
Re:That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:2)
The first thing you notice upon clamping a set of carbon wheels on the bike is that the brake levers are generally useful for making an absolutely horrendous noise, and less so for actually slowing down. As I've gone through sponsors and bike shops and racing seasons, I've tried three brands of carbons and a bunch of
Re:That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:2)
There have always been massive, massive crowds showing up at the Tour. When the US Postal Office was trying to decide whether to sponsor a team, their research indicated more people go to a single day of the Tour than the total number of people who watch one or more NFL games (or AFL games, but not quite enough to say "more than watch football".) So it's pretty crowded. And for some reason, that whole filling-the-course behavior s
crazy, maybe, but not psycho (Score:3, Insightful)
The crowds on the mountains have always done that, since long before Lance knew how to ride a bicycle. As with most things in cycling, enthusiastic spectators are not a Lance creation. If you think that is crazy, you should see crowds do the exact same thing at rally races - that's with cars, not bicycles.
When the tv video is shot from behind a rider from a motorcycle, the foreshorte
Re:That is one thing that bugs me about Le Tour. (Score:2)
Wow, so a lot of replies and a whole lot of condescending with a dash of missing the point. Before I start, I apologize for being so acidic. First, I am not claiming that Lance somehow started or caused the crowd congestion at the race. I just stated I saw a video, with him, riding through a dense crowd to exemplify the situation. Second, at the risk of committing an argumentive fallacy [wikipedia.org], I will say that I race, I am sponsored, I ride a really expensive bike in a pack of expensive bikes on a daily basis.
Wikipedia and fixing mistakes. (Score:3, Interesting)
Why is it that people think correcting mistakes is somehow a bad thing?
The technology didn't stop with the bikes. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The technology didn't stop with the bikes. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The technology didn't stop with the bikes. (Score:2)
The author went out of his way to not accuse Greg LeMond, Andy Hampsten, and Steve Bauer. That was his list of riders that he would not accuse of using.
LeMond went out of his way to not associate with doctors that provided performance enhancing chemicals. That cannot be said for Armstrong. I suspect a lot of the anti-Armstrong sentiment is
A few years? (Score:2)
The hypocracy is anoying though, and it is annoying when some of the pre-race favorites gets excluded because they are unlucky enough to get caught, but that risk is part of the game, like the risk of being involved in a bad crash before the start.
Americans in France! (Score:4, Funny)
I wonder how Americans always keep winning in France.. these last few years. To hell with all this fancy schmancy technology carbon fiber bikes, serious aerodynamic studies to improve the bikes, the helmets
As Alistair McLean figured out with Vyland and Royale... Fear is the Key. Americans are plain scared in France, methinks!
Sing along now! (Score:2)
We are stars now!
In the dope show!
We are stars now!
In the dope show!
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2)
Zank you very much for helping with that icky nazi affair, m'sieur.
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2)
When I was a teenager I was (and still is) a Greg LeMond Fan. He was extremely popular (Landis seems to have the same profile).
I even supported him when he won the tour against Fignon (French).
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond [wikipedia.org]
Armstrong was quite different. He looked extremely arrogant in the interviews. Rumors say that he is a completly different person in private.
My all time favorites are:
- Merckx (Belgian)
- LeMond (American)
- Hinault (French)
Re:Americans in France, but not in America (Score:2)
Ever heard of the Toronto Blue Jays? (Score:2)
Missed the World Series in 1992 [wikipedia.org] and 1993 [wikipedia.org], eh?
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2)
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2)
But it's worth noting cycling is also a team sport, and while Landis is an American, the sponsoring company is Swiss.
Otherwise I agree. Mathematically, it's foolish though to try to seek for a reason that "Americans" have one the tour all these recent years. It's really been one American: Lance Armstrong. Put somebody so dominant on a great team, and he'll win most of the time. Take Lance out of the picture, then Landis' victory, although a terrific achievement given that he is i
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2)
- Erwin
Re:Americans in France! (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, the general consensus at the end of stage 17 was that they simply couldn't keep up with him. That's part of why many pundits are making out this years stage 17 as one of the greatest achievements in modern cycling's history. Attributing it to a tactical mistake on the part of the other teams downplays what was accepted by many of th
It's good to be the coach (Score:3, Interesting)
In the beginning, you just had the riders out on their own wits to guide them, then they got radios and the coaches got to keep them updated, then the coaches got live TV feeds in their cars to keep themselves updated, and now apparently "it is now possible to track the position and speed of each rider in the Tour de France in real-time thanks to the EGNOS European satellite positioning system."
Being a coach sure got easier if they've got realtime tracking of all the other riders.
Re:It's good to be the coach (Score:2)
Before you had to decide of one strategy, and let your guys fulfill it. Now you potentialy have to reevaluate your strategy each time you get new information.
Also mechanical tech (Score:5, Interesting)
From the site: (http://www.powercranks.com/about/concept.htm)
So basically, they force riders to use all leg muscles and keep them from lifting one leg with the other, wasting energy. Simple, but very effective. It's a nice concept, and I'd love to get a pair even for my commute, but being a niche product they are rather expensive...
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
Why are there no recumb[ea]nt races eh?
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
I guess there are few (there are some) races because there are rather few riders as well.
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:4, Informative)
Recumbents are better aerodynamically, but worse mechanically. The torque from pedals to back wheel has to be transmitted over a longer distance and the frame has to be correspondingly heavier. The longer frame makes fighting gravity harder and adds to frame mass.
Also I can imagine (but not prove) that the horizontal riding position makes it harder to make a good pedalling stroke with even torque around the stroke. The nose down and forward position is better for situational awareness. The recumbent position is better for looking at clouds (as in a sailplane).
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:3, Interesting)
Huh? Have you ever ridden a recumbent? Situational awareness is far better - you're not staring at your front wheel all the time. I can't count the number of times I've almost been mowed down by some roadie in an aero crouch who can't see more than five feet ahead of his wheel.
As to your other points - true about the recumbent being worse mechanically. Long frames and long chainlines decrease efficiency slightly. However, there are a fe
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
Well, it's hard to see why recumbants haven't taken off...
Seriously, how do you see around parked cars at a junction, or cars coming up behind either side of you on one of those things?
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
How do you see around them when you're driving a car? I'm sitting at the same height on my recumbent as I am in my Honda. You just have to be a little more alert and cautious in those circumstances.
Re:recumbent good for looking at clouds. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:recumbent good for looking at clouds. (Score:2)
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
I've seen this claim about recumbant a few times. Can you explain why, after riding for years and in numerous supported and unsupported group rides where there are many serious recumbant cyclers, I've never seen one recumbant biker climb a hill at a speed comparable to what a road biker can climb the hill? Not one time. Seriously. I've been passed by the recumbants on the flats (though truthfully, it is much rarer than one would think), but I have never ever been passed by a bent on a climb and in every
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
Get thee to IHPVA [ihpva.org].
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
I'll be getting a set for _training_ but a differnet concept - rotor cranks [rotorcranksusa.com] - for racing (maybe). Nobody races with powercranks on.
If you want the benefit on the cheap, just snap out of your pedal and do one-leggeds. They are VERY HARD a
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
-dB
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
You sir, have won my Karma for the day. This is EXACTLY the kind of tool needed to train riders in how to properly "pull up" on their pedaling strokes. I'm always finding myself explaining why the "piston" (down, down, down, down) acti
Re:Also mechanical tech (Score:2)
I love drug scandals (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I love drug scandals (Score:2)
When you add drugs into the equation then suddenly everyone needs them even to be competitive. Then, athletics becomes a race to see who's willing to shorten their life the most and shrink their testicles the most. That's not athleticism, it's a mass suicide.
Re:I Wish (Score:2)
Performance enhancing drugs have a long history in all kinds of sport. Cycling's history of abuse is at least as old as the sport.
As much as sport organizations may not legitimately want the drugs in their sport, they start by making sure no one kills themselves with abuse first.
Some years ago 20yr old semi-pro cyclists were dying of heart attacks because of too much EPO and probably a few other things... The UCI's solution was to set a red blood cell count limit. Now
Improving the riders (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sorry Max, but we're going to take your arm off to reduce turbulence...
Re:Improving the riders (Score:2)
Did you see that high school wrestler that had lost his legs? He could wrestle in a much lower weight class. His upper body strength was huge compared to his scrawny opponents, but he had trouble with leverage in some cases. Useless legs...
Re:Improving the riders (Score:2)
Impressive. But still one point to solve ... (Score:4, Informative)
Example of 2005 configuration :
* 300 peoples : journalist, cameramen, sound, directors, arangers, production teams, etc.
* 2 Wescam helicopters : Images from the sky (landscape, monuments and peloton from the top / cool for sprints). The wescam ball is a robotized camera controled from the helicopter used since the 90s in the Tour.
* 5 image motorbike : Inside the race, following the various groups, or team directors. They provide most of the race images.
* 10 ground cameras : For TV show and Finish zooms.
* 2 motos son : sound motorbike, 2 journalist are pushing live interviews of directors or live repports of race events (very usedfull in montains where lots of things can happen at the same time)
* 2 relay planes + 2 relay helicopters : This is the hidden part of iceberg, since the 90, all the camera (wescam equiped helicopter and image motorbikes) are sending their image streams to those relays. The relays will then ensure all the streams will be received by the technical centre on the Finish city. This was the 90s revolution.
Next year, after RollandGarros in 1080p FranceTelevision (the TV group having the license on the tour) has said they will go for HD Tour
(This will put lot of pressure on the relay IMHO)
But even with the onflight stream complex solution, sill problems about camera discontinous stream happen (for instance in tunnels or behind bridges)
My best congratulation to Floyd Landis, he was very very impresive and has the "panache" that the road spectators are looking for : bring surprise, passion and never give up !
See ya next year Floyd
(PS : spectators have never like "uber-champions" that win everything, simply because there is no surprise
your last point is, sadly, wrong. (Score:2)
Domestic to the States, OLN viewership was down 52%. In Germany, after Ullrich got das boot (har har), ratings were down 43%. Even in France there were 23% fewer people watching on TV. (Source: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=421 4 [pezcyclingnews.com])
Personally, I'm psyched that it was wi
AMB not free software friendly (Score:2, Informative)
Re:AMB not free software friendly (Score:2)
Hello yourself number 990860. I sure hope slashcode doesn't have a seven digit bug.
The Slashdot Challenge? (Score:2)
With all these gadgets he may just finish!
Google Earth (Score:2, Interesting)
Link to high tech version (Score:2)
Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technology (Score:5, Interesting)
http://blog.wired.com/tourtechnology/ [wired.com]
Any bicycle which is too light, or which has excessively good aerodynamics is outright banned. There is very little exciting aerodynamics research going on for Tour-de-France. Recumbents were banned by the Union Cycliste International way back in the 30s because they were way too fast. Every bicycle speed record currently held was taken with a recumbent.
UCI basically felt that racing should be a test of the rider rather that of the technology, and so made the diamond frame the "standard". Since everyone else saw people winning races on diamond frame bikes, these bicycles were much more popular than many other technologically superior bikes, which is pretty much why recumbents are hard to find and overly expensive today.
Even this nearly traditional looking Softride pivotless suspension bike (http://www.bronesbikeshop.com/Softride.jpg) was banned because it "could have an aerodynamic advantage".
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:2)
ian
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:4, Informative)
1. Safety reasons... it just recently became possible to build a _safe_ bike under UCI weight limits. Prior to that people were using bikes of questionable structural integrity and even drilling holes in important components to shave weight (e.g. stems, cranks, etc.) Very, very nasty wrecks ensue when your bike fails on you.
2. To level the playing field a bit. There are mega teams like Discovery, T-Mobile, etc. that can afford to throw money at a problem. There are smaller teams that can't. By imposing some limits on the technology it allows these smaller teams to compete.
3. In Europe, cycling is very much a blue collar sport of the people and UCI felt it was important to get the teams riding bikes people can actually buy. Over the past decade most of the teams have gone from custom bikes to off the shelf bikes with the really hi-tech bits reserved for time trials and mountain stages. You can go buy the Trek that most of the Discovery riders use at your local Trek dealer.
Drugs aside, I can throw on my old school Postal kit, jump on my Trek OCLV and pretend for a moment that I'm chasing down Floyd and that is part of the allure of the sport for most fans. You just don't get that with Football, NASCAR, etc. (Although I think it does translate well to baseball and soccer, which probably explains the popularity of the sports).
Finally, for the post underneath this complaining about the quality of the coverage... stadiums are built with TV coverage in mind, they have broadcast booths and hardpoints for the cameras with all the wiring already run. Cycling coverage is done over a 150+ course, at 25+ mph and they can't prep the city because they move to different citites each day. The technology behind it is pretty cool and covering stadium sports is childs play compared to what they're doing.
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:2, Informative)
You forgot to mention that the speed records that you mention are limited to mostly flat land, or in the words of the IHPVA, "one of the straightest, flattest, and smoothest surfaces in the world."
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:2)
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:2)
Except ride in a pack and draft other racers.
Re:Tour-de-France is actually pretty anti-technolo (Score:2)
Leader Helmet Cam (Score:2)
the site has barely changed since '99 or so (Score:2)
Re: the tour commentators (Score:2)
That said, Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin are definitely great commentators and I wouldn't want anyone else commenting during the sages.
Re: the tour commentators (Score:2)
But Sam Posey will make me turn the channel (or rather fast forward on the tivo).
Go Floyd! (Score:2)
Floyd was training for the Tour with Lance's team, but not really pulling his weight. He was unmotivated, or not taking it seriously -- something like that (like I said, my memory is sketchy). Anyway, Lance pulled him aside and basically said "WTF?
dynometers of human power (Score:2)
Re:dynometers of human power (Score:2)
source: http://lancearmstrong.com/ [lancearmstrong.com]
Technology they still have trouble with (Score:2)
Re:Overheard At The Starting Line.. (Score:2)
Re:Overheard At The Starting Line.. (Score:2)
That's just weird.
Re:American technology is best (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm Italian, and I don't recall Americans saying that the Italy soccer team was doped through the roof when they won the World Cup.
Re:American technology is best (Score:2)
Re:American technology is best (Score:2)
Italians don't take drugs, they just bribe the ref.
Re:American technology is best (Score:2)
Besides, the guys that got kicked this year didn't get it due to a positive test (bad masking), but rather an investigation [wikipedia.org] into the doctors they were seeing...
Re:Can you do without? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not talking purely hypothetically either, it's the choice I made, although perhaps a bit easier choice for an American in the 70s. We didn't exactly have a lot of "cred" back then and things over there were not to most American's taste. For my part I'm not talking about the European culture. I loved Europe. I'm talking strictly about the bike racing culture. Those were still pretty much Prisoners of the Road days. Cycle racing was a blue collar sport, a way out of the factory job, but you were pretty much a serf to the team. Simply an employee of the sponsor.
That upstart kid Greg something or other went over there though. He managed to at least partially rewrite the rules. Go figure; and good for him. They needed a bit of rewriting. He made his team an independent business entity from the sponsor, in the American model. That changed things.
But then he didn't want to wear the jacket his mom made for him either. He wanted to wear the yellow jersey.
KFG
Re:Can you do without? (Score:2)
Maybe it is scratchy or confining, too hot, or not warm enough. What if it sucks enough
to make you think you'll lose the next stage because of it?
Now I understand. (Score:2)
> Until recently they were made of wool.
Ow! I get it now. This is the punishment jacket. You have to wear it if you go too fast. It keeps the race close, because nobody can stand to wear wool.
Re:Can you do without? (Score:2)
Re:Can you do without? (Score:2)
I wonder sometimes if women's racing in Europe was helped or harmed by Jeannie Longo's unbelievable string of victories. Sometimes it seemed like there wasn't any point to even holding the races, when you could just send the trophies directly to her and save all the hard work.
Re:Can you do without? (Score:2)
The Greg in question was Greg Lemond:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lemond [wikipedia.org]
He's best known for:
- 2 World Championships
- 3 Tour De France Titles
- Being the first millionare in the sport
- Aerodynamic innovations including a
Re:Drugs (Score:2, Insightful)
Have you ever seen anyone undergoing chemotherapy? It isn't exactly performance enhancing. Neither is arthritis so bad you're going to need a new joint, no matter what sort of drugs they give you.
KFG
Re:Drugs (Score:2)
That said, anyone who thinks he was using EPO to cheat while he was undergoing chemotherapy is crazy. Prescribing EPO to patients undergoing chemotherapy isn't unusual.
Re:specialist (Score:3, Insightful)
Armstrong was a truly great cyclist. But I'll agree that him being a one trick pony when it came to races places him under people like Miguel Indurain. I've talked with people who have admired his multi-win streak and when I've said "Yeah,
Eddy Merckx (Score:2)
Eddy won the Tour 5 time, the Giro 5 times, and the Vuelta A Espana once, not to mention having more than 20 career wins in the classics...
Re:no "ligfietsen"? (Score:2)
They are forbidden, the driving train of all bikes has to be between the axles and there is a max distance between the axles, effectively making a reclining position impossible.
Same goes for rowingbikes (http://www.rowingbike.com [rowingbike.com]).
For a better overview of recliners, visit the dutch website for human powered vehicles, www.ligfiets.net [ligfiets.net].
Re:no "ligfietsen"? (Score:2)
Re:no "ligfietsen"? (Score:2)
Re:no "ligfietsen"? (Score:2)
For you and I, perhaps. Considering the razor-thin margins that the Tour regularly hinges around, "not much" penalty can be pretty extreme. A few seconds here, a few there, pretty soon you'
Re:best cycling site (Score:2)
Re:Comparison... (Score:2)
Superbowl uses a few fancy camera tricks, in one stadium.
World Cup has a few stadia, and no tricks.
TDF Goes to places you would not want to drive a car, let alone 50+ production television trucks, covers several hundred kilometers of cycle racing, then moves for the next day, for a MONTH! It gives you telemetric data off 12+ riders each day, it manages 200+ riders positions in real time, and it runs through any weather conditions.
Trust me, I am in the middle of flying back from doing
Re:Comparison... (Score:2)