All D&D Books To Be Available As PDFs 179
sckeener writes "DriveThruRPG has just announced that it will be selling all of WotC's 3.5 Edition D&D products in e-book format - over 90 books. Wizards has elected not to make the three core rulebooks for Dungeons & Dragons available as eBooks at this time, but almost every other current Dungeons & Dragons title will be available from DriveThruRPG. New titles are scheduled to release one each weekday on DriveThruRPG: Some of the titles to be released first include: Book of Vile Darkness, Heroes of Horror, Arms and Equipment Guide, d20 Apocalypse, Champions of Ruin, Complete Arcane, Unearthed Arcana, Masters of the Wild and Book of Challenges. The books are still full price and are DRM protected." I'd be happier about this if they were even slightly discounted, but it's a good step. Heroes of Horror is worth every penny.
D&D Books in PDF is awesome. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:D&D Books in PDF is awesome. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:D&D Books in PDF is awesome. (Score:2)
Re:Cool... but... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Cool... but... (Score:4, Informative)
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizardsOfTheCoas
Perfect for video games? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2, Funny)
(Oh, and Baldur's Gate 2 was based off of 2nd Edition rules, not AD&D)
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
Yes. It used the original D&D rules and was the first MMO.
What?
There's ANOTHER ONE? Fuck!
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:4, Interesting)
Couldn't stand the new system.
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:3, Insightful)
As an old-school (1977 blue-box) life-long RPGer, I disagree on several points. 3E rulset (or 3.5E, same thing, really ought to be 3.1 from a versioning standpoint) is substantially cleaner and more sensible than any previous DND. 1E/2E multiclass rules were annoying and arbitrary, and dualclass was just plain absurd.
Your post was the first I heard of mercurial sword in a DND context (I don't own any 3E books, just read the SRD. Also, I haven't played PNP in years, and if I did I'd use Fuzion, FATE, or so
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
Prestige classes and the new multi-classing encourage class whoring, where you pick the classes that give you the most advantages and least disadvantages.
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
If the sourcebook explicitly refers to it as common mercury, then at worst this is a point discontinuity. Replace the text with "quick-mithril" or some such fantasy element and you're good to go. Even better, just don't allow mercurials and get over it.
I think I've identified the problem: YOU ARE GAMING WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE. Min-maxing can be done in ANY ruleset, the correct answer is that your group makes the offender redo their cha
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
The 3 and 3.5 rules are far more elegant than the 2nd ed rules. Come on, THAC0? To Hit Armor Class Zero system? In D20, your AC just keeps going up, as it gets stronger... unlike THAC0 where it just drops. That was one of the worst rules ever. Read some of Monte Cook's work, about D&D. A LOT of thought went into it. They dropped profecienceies and brought in skills. They added feats to make your HERO stand out from the mundanes. I agree, the mini rules are grea
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
1. First, a defense, or at least a justification of thac0, it helps immensly if you understand where it comes from. The majority of the combat rules from 1st and 2nd Ed. AD&D come from Chainmail, which in turn, are derived from the naval wargamming simulations Gargax and Arneson were into before creating Chainmail. They didn't create the rules out of whole cloth. For those that say that it's stupid and akward applie
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
Basically, yes AD&D was cludgy. (Let's see, it had: 1. A stat system. 2. A class system. 3. A proficiency system. 4. A SKILL system, just for Thieves and Bards, and 5. A magic system completely unrelated to all the others) On the plus side however
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:2)
Re:Perfect for video games? (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason ToEE failed was because Atari should never have produced it and drove it into the ground like they do with just about everything they've touched lately.
In the meantime the fans have gone on to completely draw new maps for that engine and create all new content and are well on their way to releasing B2: The Keep on the Borderlands.
They also rel
Rules != Fun Game (Score:2)
Rules are a nice gimmick. They make it even more of a must buy for people who are already fans of the ruleset and
Wrong on both counts (Score:2)
Re:Cool... but... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... but... (Score:2)
3rd edition has the easiest math from any edition yet. Thaco was much harder to explain to a newcomer than the current BAB/AC rules. And there is no 11.474m ranges, everything is in 5ft increments. To my knowledge there are no rules for anything in the entire game that is in less than a 5ft increment.
I never have problems with the math in 3rd edition DnD. And neither have any of the players I have ever played with. 2nd e
Re:Cool... but... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... but... (Score:2)
Ok, just go with the fighter for simplicity, those who care to you can work out the rest.
ThAC0: each level the Fighter's ThAC0 goes down 1. (e.g. 19,
Sweet! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sweet! (Score:2)
*sigh*
yeah but... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:yeah but... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:yeah but... (Score:2)
Boo (Score:5, Interesting)
Besides... PDF DRM? I've been given tons of supa-dupa-drm-protected PDFs in the past and usually they gave up in under 10 seconds. As usual, determined attackers will get what they want, while people who are obviously loyal to the brand and good customers get shafted by having their book usage restricted.
(OK, I have an axe to grind... I never really forgave them for the switch to d20... or for buying RTS at all)
Re:Boo (Score:5, Interesting)
Absolutely false. The cost of production might be lower, but the value is determined by the consumer, not directly by the characteristics of the item.
To me, the PDF would actually be MORE valuable, since I commute a long distance and would be able to read them on my laptop without lugging around some heavy tomes. Easier to tag, cross-reference, etc. How about indexing the books and being able to instantly (well, near-instantly, these are pdfs after all) call up all references to a certain spell in all the books?
In short, value is ascribed by the perceived utility of the object, not by production and distribution costs.
Cost of production is lower (Score:2)
I don't care for D&D myself, but within five minutes of me reading this headline to a cow-orker, he found them on a bittorrent tracking site and was downloading them.
Re:Boo (Score:2)
Re:Boo (Score:2)
Re:Boo (Score:2)
Re:Boo (Score:2)
"In a sense, you could say that the less valuable product, in this case, has more utility to you."
Not at all. I could say that the pdf is less valuable to me. Or I could say that I value the hardbound copies less than most people. I think that you're confusing 'mar
Re:Boo (Score:2)
Not "some" - "nearly all".
I'm not sure what made you think that wasn't completely obvious.
Re:Boo (Score:2)
Your argument is sound, but your conclusion is hasty and based on a small sample. The grandparent isn't "absolutely" false- it's entirely possible that they're correct. Of course, you could be correct too. Who knows?
Re:Boo (Score:2)
Whether or not the market value, that is, the value assigned by the purchasers and sellers of the good, is higher for the books than for the pdfs, the pdf and the book have no intrinsic value.
Re:Boo (Score:2)
About the pricing and a few questions... (Score:2, Insightful)
If you ever go into a store, how many copies of the DnD books does the store carry?
Have you considered how much of the store's capital is tied up in those books as a percentage of their total inventory?
How about the square footage to display the books?
Now how do you expect the store's owner to feel if those books were available as eBooks for one fourth of the hardcopy retail price? (Game stores generally
Re:About the pricing and a few questions... (Score:2)
Re:About the pricing and a few questions... (Score:2)
Actually I wouldn't buy the hardcover books at those prices either. I might be tempted to buy the hardcovers at $15-$20. I'd never pay more than $5-$10 for the PDFs.
Re:Boo (Score:2, Interesting)
The entire idea of having to lug (not to mention BUY) a Laptop and charger around to just read a book just dosn't leave me with a good taste in my mouth. I love the idea of the PDF but making me buy it seperate and additional to the book seems a bit too much.
I just can't get over the loss of the paper in a "book".
Oh and anybody who says to "Just Print it out" will b
Love electronic distribution but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Good Idea (Score:4, Interesting)
The one benefit that is very clear though, is the ability to purchase books and have them immediately, and not be limited by what the bookstore happens to have in stock today.
Re:Good Idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Psst - You can break the rules!
Really!
If everyone in your gaming group agrees a particular rule sucks - ignore it. If you hate using spell memorization rather than per-level MP (my own biggest peeve), just use MP and to hell with memorization. If you think a fixed exp per kill leads to mindless killing sprees and dungeon crawling, make better use of roleplaying-based advancement.
Re:Good Idea (Score:2)
Here: I just hope they allow eventually you to roll your own rulebooks with the elements of individual PDFs. That would be especially handy.
Translation: I wish they'd allow me to cut and paste parts and pieces of the PDFs to create my own rules compilations. Trah would be especially handy.
You're welcome.
Mostly awesome! (Score:2)
Re:Mostly awesome! (Score:2)
I've tried GMing with PDF versions of the 2e manuals (legally bought), but I just found that it's not as convenient as having the book in front of you. I'm back to the good old paper manuals now.
Re:Mostly awesome! (Score:2)
PDF, eh? (Score:4, Interesting)
On a more seriously note - I think RPG rulebooks work better in physical form. Granted, you can't drag an entire shelf of books around with you, but the players guide, DMs guide, and whatever setting-specific guide applies to your campaign, doesn't really take that much effort - The Dew and snacks for the evening probably weigh more than the books you need.
And as for looking up a particular rule... C'mon, admit it folks - you have the rulebooks all but memorized, and just need to check whether half-ogre gets a 15% or 20% racial modifier to damage with a double-handed flail...
Sigh... And after writing the above, guess what captcha I get? "losers". Not so subtle hint, oh Gods of Slashdot?
Re:PDF, eh? (Score:2)
And there is no reason why the PDF versions should be full price.
Re:PDF, eh? (Score:2)
Re:PDF, eh? (Score:2)
They've been online for some time now. alt.binaries.e-book.rpg. 'Nuff said.
Re:PDF, eh? (Score:2)
Why did you get a captcha? I never get that when logged in.
Re:PDF, eh? (Score:2)
I usually don't log in until ready to post... So, for my first post of the current browsing session, I get a captcha.
btw (Score:2)
Re:PDF, eh? (Score:2)
If we didn't have rule books to look up things, what would be the point in arguing over the rules?
Full price? No chance. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Full price? No chance. (Score:2)
Here's how new gaming sessions will go... (Score:5, Funny)
Fighter - I punch the the screen with my fist.
Rogue - I sneak around back and attempt to unplug it.
Wizard - I cast "Bigby's Typing Hands" to press Ctrl-Alt-Del
Cleric - I cast "curse" on Bill Gates
Sorceress - I summon Tech Support
Must be a definition of ALL I'm not familiar with. (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps the title should be reworded to say, all but the best selling ones.
-Jason
Close. (Score:2)
Re:Must be a definition of ALL I'm not familiar wi (Score:2, Informative)
IMarv
Re:Must be a definition of ALL I'm not familiar wi (Score:2)
Good side (Score:2)
D&D was the one thing I never pirated materials for but ever since this 3.5 bullshit I've wanted to do nothing but download their books.
Its such a shame the Gygax's got so screwed from what D&D has become.
Pay a premium for digital goods? (Score:3, Informative)
Ideally, I'd want some kind of subscription service. Let me sign up with DTRPG, authorize my credit card, and whenever a new book came out $5-$10 came off my card and I got the PDF right away. If they're worried about people pirating the PDF, a lower price would help that to... for $5 bucks I'd just give books away if I wanted to share the rules.
Big Deal (Score:2)
https://secure.slickwebsitedevelopment.com/bunkerh illgames.com/description.php?II=1082&UID=200606160 823464.21.222.125 [slickwebsi...opment.com]FRP Made Easy: A Real Fantasy
A complete game system in 1 volume at 10$, what more could you ask for?
Saving Costs... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Saving Costs... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Saving Costs... (Score:2)
Re:Saving Costs... (Score:2, Insightful)
As to my unfamiliarty with the gaming market...I've been actively writing in it for six years. I'm well aware the b&m market is dying, but it's not dead yet, and anything which can be done to revive it...or just keep it on life support for as long as possib
Re:Saving Costs... (Score:2)
Here's the deal. (Score:3, Insightful)
If they remove the crippleware and sell them as straight PDFs, I'll pay 1/2 of the price of a hardbound copy.
If they sell crippleware versions at the same price of the hardbound copy, then I'll wait until someone cracks the DRM and posts them on the internet, and I'll get them for free.
That's how it works. It would be refreshing if some publishers realized that, but it's no big deal from my end.
Another media company fails to get it (Score:3, Insightful)
What they don't get is that I download copies to supplement the physical copies I own, so I can look up something on the road from a book I don't have as I prepare the next session for my group. They are seeing it as a replacement, as it costs as much as a book.
I'm not planning to pay as much as a book costs to get something that isn't as good as one. Back to limewire for me. But their quick acceptance of digital distribution, unlike that of most media companies, leaves me hope that they will get it before 4.0...
nobody
Roll your own (Score:3, Interesting)
I recently looked into rolling my own PDF copies of my gaming books. Here is the thread on Enworld [enworld.org].
For those that don't want to click on that link, I basically talked to 3 IP lawyers about how to do it. It all comes down to the receipt. You have to have the receipt to prove purchase. A scanned receipt is fine as long as it shows your name and the product. Basically you are making your own watermarked pdfs. One IP lawyer with 20 years in the software IP field told me a horror story about how you could have the original software CD, license #, have the software registered with the vendor, and you would still need to produce the receipt to prove ownership. Without the receipt it could be stolen.....
Re:Roll your own (Score:2)
Its your stuff.
Unless you're caught distributing it, I don't think it would ever even remotely come into question.
Re:Roll your own (Score:2)
Re:Roll your own (Score:2)
I've never run into a single person who cared if what I had was in PDF form or paper form as long as they contained the same information.
And someone getting picky at a gaming table isn't the same as getting busted for copyri
Re:Roll your own (Score:2)
Re:Roll your own (Score:2)
This just shows how slow WoTC has been (Score:3, Informative)
This may be a big deal for D&D fans, but for people who play RPGs in general it's nothing new.
Re:This just shows how slow WoTC has been (Score:2)
Books with free ebooks (Score:2)
this whole idea seems alright to me, but personally i'd prefer a paper book to an ebook anyday. stacks of books on the table covered with snackfoods is part of the magic.
What about classic 1st edition stuff? (Score:2)
Reason for DRM, same price, etc. (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree though, it's not worth it. The solution is to not buy it.
I am sure that people have been demanding a PDF release for quite a while. This is pretty much the only way to do it. Release it as restricted PDF to cut down on "sharing" of the files is obvious but why make it the same price as the paper material? Simply to not piss off the small game vendors.
Yes the local RPG outlets are usually Mom & Pop style stores owned and operated by fans. They have a few rooms in back where you can get together with other players and play a game; if you need more players or are looking for a group, they offer a bulletin board. This is where new players learn how to play.
They have been slowly going the way of the video game arcade. The difference is that video games could easily move right into the home. RPGs, a social experience, aren't so lucky. Role-playing cannot survive in an online only world. I've tried dozens of times including currently with WoW but it isn't the same. It's like online poker; the mechanics are there but the social aspect is gone.
Now I personally hate D&D, as well as the whole D20 system, but it does bring new blood into the hobby. (So does LARPing but that's another story) RPG based video games also do but afterwards players need a place to meet up with others. These game stores are exactly that.
If people purchase their books and resources online exclusively, the struggling game stores lose even more money and close. Once they close, the gamers either play in their homes or leave the hobby entirely. Either way, there is no new blood infused into the hobby. No people to buy the RPG books be it printed or PDF and the game industry suffers.
So if you like the hobby, go support your local game store. Buy your overpriced splat books there instead of online. Have a chat with the owner, he's probably there. I don't think that his story will differ much from what you've just read here.
D20 SRD (Score:2)
http://www.d20srd.org/ [d20srd.org]
Almost every RPG book there ever was and will be gets scanned in and put on usenet/irc (see also comics). Can't be much fun playing without a big pile of books though.
Bout time (Score:2)
Electronic format is great... (Score:2)
Sell book + PDF together (Score:2, Insightful)
Set up WotCbooks.com. Sell books on their at cover price. When you buy the book, you're given an instant PDF download, and the normal off-the-shelf version is shipped out to you.
I defy anyone to find a flaw in that plan which doesn't exist in the current system. No, the fact that you can't double dip customers isn't a flaw.
Re:Been using PDFs for a while (Score:2)
Re:Been using PDFs for a while (Score:4, Funny)
Yech. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to be flipping through a book that my GM's been reading on the crapper. I know, the book is probably perfectly clean, but given what my current GM looks like, the visual is disturbing.
Besides, now I'm going to be thinking of unique items like Ragnar's +2 Plunger of Clog Slaying, or Charmin's +5 Vorpal Toilet Paper.
Re:Been using PDFs for a while (Score:2)
Re:Been using PDFs for a while (Score:2)
Re:No way (Score:2)
Re:No way (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Nothing new here... (Score:2)
Re:Nothing new here... (Score:2)