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BBC's iPlayer To Be Crossplatform
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:48 PM
from the coming-around dept.
from the coming-around dept.
craig1709 writes "10 Downing Street has responded to the petition to open up iPlayer access for those on other operating systems. While the wording is confusing, near as I can tell, they say they will make the iPlayer available to users of those operating systems. 'The BBC Trust made it a condition of approval for the BBC's on-demand services that the iPlayer is available to users of a range of operating systems, and has given a commitment that it will ensure that the BBC meets this demand as soon as possible. They will measure the BBC's progress on this every six months and publish the findings.'"
Related Stories
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Your Rights Online: BBC Threatened Over iPlayer Format 269 comments
greengrass sends us to coverage in The Register of the Open Source Consortium's threatened anti-trust challenge against the BBC over its use of Windows Media format in its on-demand service, iPlayer. From the article: "The OSC will raise a formal complaint with UK broadcast and telecoms watchdog Ofcom next week, and has vowed to take its accusations to the European Competition Commission if domestic regulators do not act. The OSC compared the situation to the European Commission's prosecution of Microsoft over its bundling of Windows Media Player with Windows."
[+]
BBC Chooses Microsoft DRM Platform 384 comments
bazorg writes "The BBC has chosen Microsoft's DRM technology to limit the viewing of content downloaded from their website. These downloads would allow viewers to catch up on shows that were broadcast on the previous 7 days; they would be compatible only with Windows Media Player and a new product called 'iPlayer'. This iPlayer is not yet available for platforms other than MS Windows, which caused the Open Source Consortium (OSC) to file a complaint to national and EU authorities. 'The BBC aims to make its content as widely available as possible and has always taken a platform agnostic approach to its internet services. It is not possible to put an exact timeframe on when BBC iPlayer will be available for Mac users. However, we are working to ensure this happens as soon as possible and the BBC Trust will be monitoring progress on a six monthly basis.'"
[+]
BBC Trust Will Hear iPlayer Openness Complaints 177 comments
AnotherDaveB writes with a Register story reporting that the BBC Trust has asked to meet with open source advocates to discuss their complaints over the corporation's Windows-only on-demand broadband TV service, iPlayer. The development came less than 48 hours after a meeting between the Open Source Consortium and regulators at Ofcom on Tuesday. Officials agreed to press the Trust, the BBC's governing body, to meet the OSC. The consortium received an invitation on Wednesday afternoon.
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BBC Trust to Meet With OSC Over iPlayer 125 comments
Virgil Tibbs writes "With the Launch of the BBC's iPlayer imminent, the BBC trust has agreed to hear the Open Source Consortium's concerns regarding the BBC iPlayer's tie in with Microsoft's software.
The move by the BBC to use Windows Media DRM & their apparent lack of commitment towards other platforms has caused outrage in many circles and prompted several online petitions."
[+]
Your Rights Online: BBC's iPlayer's Prospects Looking Bleak 369 comments
An anonymous reader writes "The future of iPlayer, the BBC's new online on-demand system for delivering content, is continuing to look bleaker. With ISPs threatening to throttle the content delivered through the iPlayer, consumers petitioning the UK government and the BBC to drop the DRM and Microsoft-only technology, and threatened legal action from the OSC, the last thing the BBC wanted to see today was street protests at their office and at the BBC Media Complex accompanied by a report issued by DefectiveByDesign about their association with Microsoft."
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Your Rights Online: BBC Quietly Announces Linux/Mac iPlayer 218 comments
Keir Thomas writes "When the BBC released its new iPlayer watch-on-demand service, there were many complaints about the fact it was Windows-only — the equivalent of current BBC broadcasts only being watchable on, say, a Sony television. The good news is that the BBC has announced a Flash-based player for Linux and Mac due by the end of the year. (The announcement is buried half way down the page.) The bad news is that it will probably only offer streaming, and not the ability to download programs, like the Windows client has. Quote: 'It comes down to cost per person and reach at the end of the day.'"
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Platforms (Score:5, Funny)
Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:3, Insightful)
Timelines for other platforms
There will be a Vista version of BBC iPlayer available this year. We are actively working on Mac and cross platform support.
It shows where the
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Give me one good reason why Vista *shouldnt* be their top priority.
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's wrong to use a propriatory format. If they used an open format for the system, producing a "iplayer" application for each OS wouldn't be important.
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:5, Insightful)
I do think it's important... how would using an open format prevent everyday people from using the material? Seems to me it would enable _more_ everyday people to use the material by allowing them to use whatever player they are already familiar with rather than having to learn a propriatory one.
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Most open formats have players already available for all the major platforms (and quite a few minor ones), so it seems your fear is unfounded.
Maybe you me
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OK, I see we're talking at cross-purposes, and in any case this is an interesting subject so I'm going to expand a lot of my earlier comments here.
When I say I have no problem with open formats, I mean I have no problem in principle with using documented
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have yet to see any reasonable explanation as to why content delivered over IP needs to be DRM'd whilst the same content delivered over PAL, DVB-T, DVB-C and DVB-S can be delivered unencrypted (and the BBC have actively pushed for this).
it dramatically reduces the market for BBC shows abroad.
This is completely bogus - the BBC can filter by IP address to restrict the downloads to UK residents which would lead to a similar state of affairs as their free to air broadcasts.
Firstly, you already pay the licence fee for the existing facilities. It's not going up significantly to support the new offerings, so you're not losing out.
The money doesn't magically appear from somewhere - this is being funded by licence fee money and that means either the licence will need to be increased or the funds are being diverted away from existing facilities.
I should also point out that the licence fee _has_ increased significantly over the past decade, in part to pay for new services such as the digital channels, increased web content, etc.
Secondly, even if you do, it's not intentional. The BBC distributes vast amounts of content in many media, and almost no-one benefits from all of it. Where do you draw the line on how far they must go to be making a reasonable attempt to allow access to those entitled to it?
No, you're right, I don't access all the BBC's content. However, I *could* if I wanted, without being required to buy specific software to do so. The BBC does not artificially prevent certain groups of people from accessing their other content.
it's not your licence fee that is paying for the content. Licence fees represent a surprisingly small part of the BBC's income.
In that case the BBC won't mind if we abolish the licence fee.
(Note: I'm actually pro-licence fee, but if you're going to claim my licence fee doesn't pay for anything then there seems to be no reason for me to pay it)
If you significantly undermine that revenue stream, we won't need to have this conversation in five years
Noone is suggesting the BBC undermine their revenue stream. All I am suggesting is that they provide the content _to the british public_ in an open format over IP. This really is no different to what they are already doing, which is providing the content in an open format over PAL, DVB, DAB, FM and AM.
copyright exists for a reason
Noone is discussing copyright here. The discussion is regarding DRM. If you have DRM you don't need copyright and if you have copyright you don't need DRM.
some other proportionate incentive to support the system instead of screwing it.
How about the content producers not trying to screw over the consumers all the time. At the moment, illegally copied material is _higher quality_ than the legitimately paid for material, because you don't have to deal with DRM, region controls, unskippable content accusing you of being a criminal, etc. Is it any wonder people infringe the copyright?
But the main problem with copyright infringement on-line isn't the hardcore geeks who can circumvent DRM in their sleep, it's the casual copiers.
I think that assertion is just plain wrong. The geeks crack the DRM and post the un-DRM'd versions on bittorrent trackers. You don't need to be a geek to use a torrent client. If you make the average user jump through hoops, you won't do anything to stop the geeks posting the content in unDRM'd format, but you will push the masses to getting the illegal un-DRM'd version instead of the official one.
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want to troll, don't be so obvious about it. Don't write something that everyone can instantly see is an Aunt Sally. Make it at least seem as if you're making a reasonable point.
Using an open format wouldn't stop 'everyday people' from watching or listening to the material. It would make it easier for them. They could use either the BBC's own player, or a range of other players from other providers. They could watch the material not just on their Windows computer running the BBC's software, but also on their phone, their MP3 player, their television via a set-top box.
This isn't just a win for strange nerdy people who want to roll their own media player, or Un-American[1] traitors who choose not to run Windows. It's a win for 'everyday people'.
1: Yes, of course I'm un-American. I'm Scots.
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:5, Informative)
I think it's wrong to use a format that is integrated into the "most popular operating system" and can't easily (and possibly not legally) be used on anything else.
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:4, Insightful)
And here I was thinking that Vista was a whole new operating system. I'm sure that's what the nice people at Redmond have been saying.
I can understand them wanting to support XP first, certainly. Describing Vista as "popular" however would seem to be a bit of a stretch. You might just about get away with "probably going to become widely deployed OS, someday". Not exactly a reason to prioritise support however.
Especially seeing as - as has been pointed out elsewhere, if they'd used an open format the problem would not have arisen. It's a bit like cutting off a fellow's leg, and then telling him there are people ahead of him in the queue for prosthetic limbs.
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Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Makes me wonder, why aren't they simply using Silverlight. Supports WMV, WVM's DRM, and is multiplatform (Silverlight on Wind
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It is a shame real
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The problem is that Kontiki (the platform forced upon the BBC as the only off-the-shelf system available that handled all the drm and p2p side of things) only runs on Windows (and evidently the version the beeb uses only works on XP). The BBC are beholden
Re:Sadly more truth than joke. (Score:5, Insightful)
As some other posters have pointed out, this entire debate is framed incorrectly - they're asking the wrong questions.
NEWSFLASH to the BBC from the world
The BBC shouldn't be trying to make the Internet into broadcast television, but turning from broadcast television and using the Internet to distribute, via the channels already available - (XBox, unbox, iTMS, YouTube etc). The future for the BBC is not in broadcasting, but in content production. Unfortunately the BBC Trust has no fucking idea about the internet, and the BBC is not enlightening them. Why not? The BBC doesn't even depend on advertising, this should be a perfect situation for them to lead the way. Instead they're leading everyone in precisely the wrong direction, egged on by the Trust.
People would gladly pay for these shows in the right format. If you don't have the licensing rights to sell online, get them; you seem to manage to for DVDs.
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Every six months? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Every six months? (Score:4, Insightful)
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These kids at
On the first 6 month reporting time I would ask for extra two weeks to prepare my report!
Re:Every six months? (Score:5, Funny)
Month 1
Week 1: Debate which OS/Distro to develop on.
Week 2: Submit recommendations/analysis to superiors.
Week 3: Wait
Week 4: Submission was going to be revised. Resubmit. Hope that it is okay this time.
Month 2
Week 1: Accepted. Determine the priority of the modules to port.
Week 2: Make new test scenarios with regards to the target environment.
Week 3: Buy development pc/server, install the target OS/distro. set it up.
Week 4: Manager decides to do team building at the beach.
Month 3
Week 1: Start to port the code to the new environment.
Week 2: same as Week 1
Week 3: Employees all got common cold.
Week 4: Coding Finished.
Month 4
Week 1: Run Tests and modify code as necessary.
Week 2: Continue testing and make initial builds.
Week 3: Install initail build on test server and demo it.
Week 4: Continue the iterations until an acceptable build was made.
Month 5
Week 1: Had the QA run the build on their tests.
Week 2: QA tests the build and determines if the video would no longer play after a few weeks.
Week 3: QA waiting for the two week expiration of video. CEO resigns.
Week 4: QA test completed, bugs logged, dev goes into cramming.
Month 6
Week 1: QA runs tests as necessary.
Week 2: Management determines product is good even with active bugs.
Week 3: Marketing announces the launch date of the product.
Week 4: Dev copies the exe from his bin...
Month 7
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The UK government certainly are absolutely awful where IT projects are concerned, but in this case it's not really fair to blame them since the BBC is autonomous in this respect
Only measuring, not enforcement (Score:5, Insightful)
[John Cleese mode=on]
6 months: "Not done yet? Carry on."
12 months: "Still not cross platform? Jolly good."
18 months: "What, no Linux so far? You chaps are putting on a fine show."
And so on
Re:Only measuring, not enforcement (Score:5, Funny)
BULLSHIT (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:BULLSHIT.... even more disturbing! (Score:4, Interesting)
The BBC Trust made it a condition of approval for the BBC's on-demand services that the iPlayer is available to users of a range of operating systems, and has given a commitment that it will ensure that the BBC meets this demand as soon as possible. They will measure the BBC's progress on this every six months and publish the findings....
So, if the BBC Trust's conditions have not been met by the BBC, why is this service being allowed to operate at all? There is no need to measure 'progress' on a commitment; it is just a YES or a NO.
What if only a few distros that accept DRM in the form of proprietary drivers from some select video cards.. are able to participate in this new thingy? Will that be measured as 'available on Linux'?
It's sad to see the BBC disobeying the BBC Trust, and getting away with this nonsense. While we get to read such nice articles on... yes, the same BBC!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6325353.stm [bbc.co.uk]
The freedoms built in to the net are under attack like never before, argues regular columnist Bill Thompson.
While Bill Thompson was talking about Windows Vista, he might have as well been referring to his own employer, the BBC. Sad state of affairs, really.
Not news. Certainly not good news (Score:2, Funny)
I have searched the BBC Trust Website for any evidence of a change of heart, and found none.
This is exactly the same response they gave in the original approval for the iPlayer service.
Full text of the decision from April this year can be found here [bbc.co.uk].
They should use a cross-platform application... (Score:2)
Besides the more well-known wxWi
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It's really amusing... (Score:3, Interesting)
If I were to look, would I be likely to discover the involvement of a certain company known for pushing closed, incompatible data formats centered on it's closed operating system?
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Sure it's up to them - they negotiate the distribution rights when they negotiate the contracts with the content producers. They already negotiate for un-DRM
Open source (Score:4, Insightful)
done and done. (Score:3, Funny)
I hate to say it, but that demand has already been meet. Via Bittorrent. Everyone who knows the phrase "Vote Saxon" will agree with me.
In response to multiple threads... (Score:4, Interesting)
A: You only pay the TV license if you own TV reception equipment - whether or not that makes it a "tax" is up for debate, but it is more-or-less ring fenced for broadcasting, and doesn't (e.g.) just disappear into the Inland Revenue coffers with your income tax. (There's a side-issue with convincing the TV license stormtroopers that you don't have TV reception equipment, but that's incompetence, not the law). Actually, I'd predict that as soon as media convergence "matures" this system will collapse - I don't think extending the definition of TV reception equipment to PCs and Internet would be tolerated - big media and comms. companies are already hostile towards this system and would roll out the astroturf like mad. In a sense, by pursuing online TV in any form, the BBC turkeys are voting for Christmas.
B: The BBC is not "run" by the government - lots of effort has been made to ensure that the management from the BBC is apolitical. Of course, this is totally immune from political appointments and back-room arm twisting - not!!! - but the thought is there. Like all journalists, the BBC news service is in the business of telling ripping yarns that get the viewers in, with accuracy and objectivity distinctly optional (e.g. the recent documentary on how nasty WiFi radiation fries kids brains, in which a tinfoil-hat salesman was given an uncritical platform) and this occasionally gets mistaken for political bias.
C: As far as I am aware, the BBC has no Royal Exemption from copyright and contract law and they have to deal with rights holders - much of their content is outsourced, bought in, involves card-carrying actors or is sold overseas (with various guarantees of exclusivity).
OTOH, this is all a bit nuts, since if you bung a DVB-T (terrestrial broadcast digital TV) card in your PC you can grab Dr Who, Torchwood and Heroes in ad-free wide-screen unencrypted MPEG2 goodness anyway (and 'Who is on continual re-run on BBC3 so you can't miss it!).
Re:Are petitions fun? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:VLC CANNOT PLAY IT (Score:2)
If that's true, then why petition only to obtain a different type of lock?
That's like complaining about being locked in a room full of posionous scorpians, and petition
Re:VLC CANNOT PLAY IT (Score:5, Insightful)
As a UK citizen I acknowledge that the BBC is restricted as to what it CAN provide by those who in turn supply it.
What I do not accept is the "Use Microsoft watch BBC" "Use linux/mac and you are shit out of luck".
Essentially HANDING microsoft a FREE selling point - "You can't watch the BBC on anything else", AND PAYING THEM OUT OF OUR LICENSEE FEE.
Convicted Felon (Microsoft) : 1
License Payers : 0
Re:Convicted Felon vs License Payers (Score:4, Informative)
Everyone in the UK pays TV tax. Said tax goes to the BBC.
See the problem? The BBC has to provide people with the content.
This isnt your standard DRM case.
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Linux based DRM is impossible (Score:2)
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The iPlayer is an opportunity to get it MADE LEGAL - all that is needed is the cross platform support, and then you won't need to break the law to download your tv.
Now if we only had
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The BBC unlike most other broadcasters if funded by UK residents paying an annual license fee.
What I object to is the misuse of OUR funding by paying a convicted felon for what is essentially a MONOPOLY lock into
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