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Commodore 64 Confuses Austrian Police

Posted by kdawson on Tue Sep 05, 2006 06:59 PM
from the at-least-it-wasn't-a-trash-80 dept.
toomanyairmiles writes, "It seems that Wolfgang Priklopil, the communications technician who kidnapped Austrian pre-teen Natascha Kampusch, relied on a Commodore 64 as his primary machine. Interestingly this is presenting some problems to the Austrian computer forensics people. Major General Gerhard Lang of the Federal Criminal Investigations Bureau told reporters it would 'complicate investigators' efforts' and would be difficult to transfer the files to modern computers 'without loss.' Could this be the latest in the criminal world's security strategy? Can we expect to see Spectrums, Archimedes, and Atari STs turning up in police investigations soon?"
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  • The Charge? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:00PM (#16048770)
    Can we expect to see Spectrums, Archimedes, and Atari STs turning up in police investigations soon?
    What are they going to charge them with? Living in the stone age?
    • Re:The Charge? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:17PM (#16048872)
      This person was found to be connected to the terrorist Junis, a friend of Jon Katz. No doubt he is pirating movies and watching them on his computer.
      [ Parent ]
      • by Garabito (720521) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:35PM (#16048966)
        About Jon Katz, former Slashdot editor. Taken from here [wikipedia.org]:

        "There was a large controversy when Katz posted an article about an e-mail he believed to be from an Afghani teenager named "Junis", writing to him via the newly-restored Internet. Katz never disclosed the original e-mail, but it was an evident hoax and probably a parody designed to fool him. According to Katz, Junis wrote his e-mail from "his ancient Commodore computer", which he had 'dug up' and was now using to download movies, pornography, and MP3s thanks to the recent liberation of Afghanistan."
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:The Charge? by narrowhouse (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @07:41AM
    • Re:The Charge? by LordSnooty (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @09:48AM
    • Re:Amiga by wpope1 (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:01AM
      • Re:Amiga by drinkypoo (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @12:03PM
        • Re:Amiga by drinkypoo (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @05:52PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
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  • Question (Score:5, Interesting)

    by daveschroeder (516195) * <das@NoSPAm.doit.wisc.edu> on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:00PM (#16048771)
    (http://das.doit.wisc.edu/)
    Could this be the latest in the criminal world's security strategy? Can we expect to see Spectrums, Archimedes, and Atari STs turning up in police investigations soon?

    Um, no. This was an aberration; nothing more, even if its use for those reasons was deliberate on his part.

    But here's an actual question:

    I can absolutely understand and appreciate that people value some of the features and functionality of things like the Commodore 64 and Newton, and many other machines that were considered to be state-of-the-art in their time.

    But why would someone go out of their way to continue to use it? I can understand practical and pragmatic answers like "It's still functional for me" or "I just like it better and I haven't had any problems". But are there other reasons?

    I mean, you can literally get systems for free (or next to nothing) that are capable of running various modern operating systems, including various versions of Windows, Mac OS and Mac OS X, myriad Linux distributions to your heart's content, BSD distributions, and so on, that would be much more functional and capable, particularly in the context of the internet and associated applications.

    So what's the draw? Why keep running on something like a Commodore 64? Even considering legitimate reasons for continuing to use it, I don't see how sticking with something exceedingly obsolete can be functional when viewed alongside semi-modern systems. I understand people collect all manner of antiques for a variety of reasons, including other things that may be nearly impossible to service or repair easily; is the reason for using obsolete computing equipment the same?

    Status? Hobby? Entertainment? Eccentricity? Just to "do it"?

    And to reiterate, I can understand collecting pristine Commodore 64s or similar in working order, and even making TCP/IP stacks and such work, just for the sake of doing it. But using it as a primary system exclusively? Some people may own and spend a great deal of time on something like, say, a Model T, but they don't use it as their daily driver...

    On another note, I do agree that his system being a Commodore 64 will "complicate investigators' efforts"; but to say that it would be difficult to transfer files "without loss" is disingenuous at best. Do they mean "transfer files" to include possibly-deleted files (in which case I agree there may be "loss")? Do they mean contextual loss, because modern applications may or may not be able to open files and represent context-sensitive features like position, text styles, and so on? Or are they talking about "loss" in that they won't be able to run their standard forensic tools that package everything up with a nice little bow? If they're talking about files representing images and text, I don't care what it is: if it's functional and intact, there's no reason for there to be "loss". I don't care if it takes resorting to eBay, digging up old company engineers, or weirdos on web forums...they should be able to recover anything they need to.
    • Followup (Score:5, Interesting)

      by daveschroeder (516195) * <das@NoSPAm.doit.wisc.edu> on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:05PM (#16048797)
      (http://das.doit.wisc.edu/)
      I would say this does raise another valid point, though: as systems and media age, it's actually quite an interesting question how all of this data that isn't transferred to modern day systems will be dealt with, both from a technological and machine- and media-aging point-of-view. And in the context of criminal investigations, what happens if evidence is "lost" (or simply unrecovered) from a 25-year-old computer in a murder investigation which has no statute of limitations? It's an equally difficult question for governments, corporations, and academic institutions that actually *want* to keep the data but are having trouble instituting standards, policies, and mechanisms for data retention.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Question by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:07PM
      • Re:Question by homer_ca (Score:3) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:19PM
        • Re:Question by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:35PM
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    • Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MyNameIsFred (543994) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:15PM (#16048861)
      ... but to say that it would be difficult to transfer files "without loss" is disingenuous at best...
      I assume that Austrian law requires some sort of chain of custody for evidence similar to that required under American law. Thus, the transfer is probably difficult because they do not have "certified tools" for the transfer. In the US, it is my understanding that simply copying the files with the copy command is not sufficient. That defense lawyers can question how the transfer was made, whether the copy is an accurate representation of the original, etc. I presume similar problems under Austrian law.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question by pizpot (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:44PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Question by hauntingthunder (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @08:06AM
      • Re:Question by MyNameIsFred (Score:3) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:36PM
        • Re:Question by houseofzeus (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @01:42AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Question by Grishnakh (Score:3) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:11PM
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    • Re:Question by capologist (Score:3) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:17PM
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      • Re:Question by dougmc (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:49PM
      • Re:Question (Score:4, Funny)

        by Scrameustache (459504) * on Wednesday September 06 2006, @01:11AM (#16050290)
        (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday September 09, @10:43PM)
        My guess is that he got the machine thirty years ago, it did what he needed, and he never felt a need to replace it.

        Exactly.
        Coincidentally, he did the same with a girl, 10 years ago.

        MY questions are: Why are people questioning the hardware choices of a psycho kidnapper? Are they actually looking for a coherent thought process they can relate too? Do they want to find one? Should they turn themselves in the nearest psychiatric ward if they do?
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question by dgatwood (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:33PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Question (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Ralph Spoilsport (673134) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:32PM (#16048945)
      (Last Journal: Monday July 12 2004, @09:38PM)
      I have an Amiga kicking around in the garage. Why? Because I put a Time Base Corrector (TBC) in it that strips out ALL macrovision and DRM - I get pure video signal. I might get $50 for the machine in a yard sale. But a TBC of the quality I installed in it? HA! We're talking at least $500. So, that obsolete cranky POS that sounds like a snoring pig at start up saves me Serious $$$. The floppy drive in it is marginal, the video card barely works, but the TBC keeps on ticking. So every Friday I rent a few videos, run them through the TBC to my OSX G5, and burn a DVD for future reference...

      And THAT'S how it's done.

      RS

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question by dfghjk (Score:3) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:11PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Question by XenonOfArcticus (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:31PM
        • Re:Question by Schraegstrichpunkt (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:09PM
        • Re:Question by thatguywhoiam (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:12PM
          • Re:Question by mdwh2 (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @09:19AM
      • Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)

        by radish (98371) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @11:39PM (#16050007)
        (http://slashdot.org/)
        Or you could just, you know, do what the rest of us do and dupe netflix discs with DVD Shrink. Considerably simpler, quicker, and produces much better results. Oh, and there's no DRM on a VHS tape - it would have to be called ARM.
        [ Parent ]
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      • Re:Question by syousef (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @11:49PM
        • Re:Question by 666999 (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @06:08AM
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        • Library fees by LunaticTippy (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @03:46PM
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      • Re:Question by LocalH (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @02:06PM
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    • Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Arakageeta (671142) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:38PM (#16048979)
      The guy kidnapped a little girl and kept her for 8 years. He's obviously a nut case. I don't think you can back his choice to use a Commodore 64 with reason.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question by dgatwood (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:36PM
        • Re:Question by Moodie-1 (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @11:59PM
          • Re:Question by Reservoir Penguin (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @08:51AM
          • Re:Question by Digz (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @03:14PM
        • Re:Question by Duhavid (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @08:56AM
      • Re:Question (Score:5, Funny)

        by soft_guy (534437) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:42PM (#16049803)
        The guy kidnapped a little girl and kept her for 8 years. He's obviously a nut case. I don't think you can back his choice to use a Commodore 64 with reason.

        On Slashdot, we don't think he's crazy for hideous crimes. We think he is crazy for using an old computer.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Question by trash eighty (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @02:49AM
          • Re:Question by nutsy (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @08:08PM
        • Re:Question (Score:4, Funny)

          by identity0 (77976) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @04:35AM (#16050800)
          (Last Journal: Monday March 31 2003, @01:23AM)
          WTF is wrong with wrong with using an old computer?! I'm typing this on an old 386 right now, in fact.

          In the basement, I have an Altair that I kidnapped from the local uni 25 years ago, that I've been teaching to read Perl and play with Lego Mindstorms. I've named her "nappy", because she likes the nappies and ice cream. I feed it to her on punch cards. We are such a happy computer family together, I don't have to hit her much anymore. I love you, you love me, lalalalaOH SHIT THE COPS ARE HERE@!^&@!!

          +++ATH
          NO CARRIER
          [ Parent ]
        • Re:Question by tehcyder (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:38AM
      • Re:Question by SmittyTheBold (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @12:00AM
    • reason to use it in one word: (Score:4, Informative)

      by GeekyMike (575177) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:38PM (#16048981)
      Zaxxon
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Question by ehrichweiss (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:40PM
    • Re:Question by Pinback (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:42PM
    • Brilliant! by Spock the Baptist (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:47PM
    • Re:Question (Score:5, Funny)

      by smilindog2000 (907665) <bill@billrocks.org> on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:53PM (#16049057)
      (http://www.billrocks.org/)

      But why would someone go out of their way to continue to use it?

      Are you kidding? Obviously, because the hottest geek chick on the planet is into them! See:

      "Super-hot super-smart geek-chick" [wikipedia.org]

      [ Parent ]
    • That's assuming by AlgoRhythm (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:00PM
    • Commodore's run Linux by lullabud (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:00PM
    • Re:Question by Velk (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:03PM
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    • Re:Question by beadfulthings (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:29PM
      • Re:Question by number11 (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @12:53AM
        • Re:Question by beadfulthings (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @08:27AM
    • Dunno about complicating efforts. by jd (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:08PM
    • Re:Question by NotBorg (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:09PM
    • Re:Question by Chacham (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:13PM
    • Re:Answer :) by Skuld-Chan (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:40PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Question by John Hasler (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:02PM
    • battery life? by way2trivial (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:11PM
      • Re:battery life? (Score:5, Funny)

        try a trs-80 mdl 100
        I have one of those! Got it at Goodwill back in 2001 or so for $9.95.

        Of course, here's the funny story. I got the computer, and figured `ok, what do I do with it?' ... so I tried to remember BASIC, and put in this program as soon as I got it working at the office -- 10 I = I + 1
        20 PRINT "HELLO THERE # ", I ;
        30 GOTO 10
        (sorry if I got this wrong. This is the last time I did any BASIC, and it was years before that that I'd last done any.)

        In any event, it's still running today. It's up to (let me check) 509176235. It's doing roughly 4.2 iterations/second, with most of the cpu obviously going to scrolling the display. Of course, if I do the math, that only works out to about four years, so I'm not sure what the discrepancy is.

        In any event, it's lasted several office moves, and now it's in my garage, with a wal-wart transformer connected and some AA's in the battery slot. The batteries will run it for a remarkably long time, and I just replace them every year or so.

        I've been tempted to pull it out and play with it a bit, but I'm reluctant to lose all my uptime ...

        [ Parent ]
    • Re:Question by syousef (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:53PM
    • Re:Question by iamhassi (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:57PM
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    • If it ain't broke, by houghi (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @07:04AM
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    • I'm not sure about the C64, but... by SanityInAnarchy (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:43AM
    • Answer: by nurb432 (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:57AM
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    • Yeah and why do people use analog synthesizers? by Kodack (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @03:37PM
    • Old is not Bad by arantius (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:47PM
    • Re:Question by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:30PM
      • Re:Question (Score:5, Funny)

        by bar-agent (698856) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:54PM (#16049062)
        It may be that he was just a generally all-round weird guy.
        The whole "girl-in-a-dungeon" thing is certainly indicative.
        [ Parent ]
        • Video Game Violence by Kamiza Ikioi (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @12:04AM
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        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Right... by Toba82 (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @12:13AM
      • Re:Right... by Magada (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @04:00AM
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  • Why go that far? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Locke2005 (849178) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:02PM (#16048776)
    (http://whitehouse.com/)
    Any box that doesn't run Windows confuses most investigators. Yep, all their tools are Windows-specific.
    • Re:Why go that far? by Marxist Hacker 42 (Score:3) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:06PM
    • Re:Why go that far? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by iluvcapra (782887) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:11PM (#16048837)
      (http://www.soundepartment.com/)

      Quickly becoming a meme:

      Only a terrorist wouldn't use Windows.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Why go that far? by grumpyman (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:42PM
    • Specifically by Sycraft-fu (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:54PM
    • Re:Why go that far? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Danga (307709) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:56PM (#16049072)
      Any box that doesn't run Windows confuses most investigators.

      You are far from correct. A lot of forensic investigators I have talked to actually use linux at times to do things such as image drives which is safer to do on linux than Windows and they are not straight Windows users.

      Yep, all their tools are Windows-specific.

      The reason they do use Windows tools most of the time is because the tried and true forensic applications are developed for Windows such as Forensic Toolkit Pro http://www.accessdata.com/products/ftk/ [accessdata.com] and EnCase http://www.guidancesoftware.com/products/ef_index. asp [guidancesoftware.com] and since they work and have been well tested on Windows it makes little sense to increase the likelyhood of problems by porting these applications to other OS's. The other big reason most tools are Windows centric is obviously because Windows is the most widely used OS and people like to use what they already have and know.

      Windows may not be the greatest OS, and I know people love to bash it, but that does not mean the Windows tools developed for forensic investigations are of low quality. I work as a software developer in this field so I have a decent view on what the situation is and your comment was way far off.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Why go that far? by SeaFox (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @08:12PM
    • Re:Why go that far? by the_ridd1er (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @03:11AM
    • Re:Why go that far? by Clovert Agent (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @03:26AM
    • Re:Why go that far? by tehcyder (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:46AM
  • Have they forgotten RS232? by Marxist Hacker 42 (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:02PM
  • FINALLY (Score:3, Funny)

    by drfrog (145882) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:02PM (#16048785)
    (http://www.wintermarket.net/)
    My Basic skills will rule them all
    • Re:FINALLY by ralf1 (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:39PM
    • Re:FINALLY by NoMaster (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:33PM
    • Re:FINALLY by pklinken (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @05:53AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • let me at it!! (Score:4, Funny)

    I'll have that bugger fixed in no time!!! ...as long as it involves writing elementary BASIC loops, LOAD "$",8,1 or beating Space Taxi or Questron.
    • Space Taxi! by porkchop_d_clown (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:39PM
      • Re:Space Taxi! by rikkitikki (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:57PM
    • Re:let me at it!! by dgmartin98 (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2006, @10:49PM
    • Re:let me at it!! by Idarubicin (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2006, @08:31AM
    • Re:let me at it!! by markmier (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @12:24PM
  • Even Better (Score:5, Funny)

    by coop247 (974899) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:05PM (#16048801)
    I also hear they are having trouble getting information from his IBM typewriter. Apparently he used White Out to clear the data.
    • Re:Even Better by triso (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:16PM
    • 1945 ENIAC by Tablizer (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2006, @09:27PM
  • C64 Data Cassettes (Score:3, Funny)

    by Aokubidaikon (942336) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:05PM (#16048802)
    (http://himeringo.com/)
    In my mind I see the secretaries at the Austrian police station behind their typewriters, listening hard and trying to make sense of what exactly is being said on those strange tapes...
  • This is retarded (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cobralisk (666114) on Tuesday September 05 2006, @07:06PM (#16048804)
    Seriously, I have a Commodore 64 sitting right next to me hooked up to a dos box as a hard drive. Data is data. You just need a x1541 cable. There are lots of free software tools to facilitate this, and the d64 and t64 formats are well supported. You can even use audio tapes and a soundcard to transfer files. Once you have the data on the PC, there are multitudes of C64 emulators to run the software directly. I've been doing this since the late '90s. Google is your friend.