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Privacy Technology

RSA Creating RFID Blocker Tag 328

burgburgburg writes "RSA is introducing a new RFID cloaking system to guard secret data. The RSA Blocker Tag technology uses a jamming system designed to confuse RFID readers and prevent those devices from tracking data on individuals or goods outside certain boundaries. At its security conference, RSA demonstrated the blocking technology in a pharmacy setting. The pharmacist provides your prescription in a special bag with the Blocker tags. When the drugs are in the bag, RFID readers are blocked. Take them out, they're readable. The tags work by emitting radio frequencies that fool RFID readers into thinking they're receiving unwanted data, causing them to shun data from that source. RSA promises that this new technology will not interfere with the normal operation of RFID systems or allow hackers to use security technology to bypass theft-control systems or launch denial-of-service attacks." Maybe it's just me, but this seems to not address any of the important RFID issues at all.
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RSA Creating RFID Blocker Tag

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  • by Captain Large Face ( 559804 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:12PM (#8375490) Homepage
    OK paranoid people, now you've got something to line the inside of your tinfoil beanies!
  • by LurkerXXX ( 667952 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:13PM (#8375493)
    I guess soon we will all want to start using lead paint again on our houses.
  • by SillySnake ( 727102 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:13PM (#8375494)
    Now I can stop wearing all this aluminum foil!
    • by Doesn't_Comment_Code ( 692510 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:28PM (#8375690)
      That reminds me of a news special I saw on TV about professional shoplifters. Apparently they had devised a way to smuggle clothing and other goods with RFID tags past those little scanner gates. You wanna know how they did it?

      Tin foil lined bags!

      According to the show, some of these shoplifting rings take millions of dollars worth of merchanise a year. So this method must be pretty effective. I love when people go through a ton of work and invest billions of dollars while ignoring something simple/stupid like tin foil.
      • by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:54PM (#8376031) Journal
        RFIDs arent meant to solely deter shoplifting. Hell, you can rip the security tags off.

        They're more about inventory and process control. Store managers want to be able to walk down the aisle with their RFID-scanning laptop and instantly know how many of each item are there. Or, misplaced items can shout "hey, I'm on the wrong shelf!"

        Or honest shoppers can take their stuff up to the self-checkout area, and the screen shows you whats in your bag and you sign off on it, rather than having to scan and rebag everything.

        And, of course, the paranoid will tell you its so the CIA can scan you from a plain white van and know what kind of deoderant you use.

        Shoplifters and thieves will always find a way around the system, so it doesn't matter.
      • by s4m7 ( 519684 )

        All we need now is for the courts to rule that tin foil is somehow a violation of the DMCA under the "circumvention" provision.

        When tin foil is outlawed, only the outlaws will have tin foil!

        In Soviet Russia, RFID Blocks you!

    • Aluminum foil doesn't work. You gotta use tin foil! Something to do with interaction with the anti-matter emitters (or was that dylithum?)
  • by Godeke ( 32895 ) * on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:13PM (#8375496)
    I see a new business opprotunity! Several states decided a while back to make a profit off of the backs of the citizens by selling government databases to spa^H^H^H marketers. One of those databases was the registration data from the DMV.

    Combine that with RFIDs scanned as they leave the store, returning to the car, and I think we will have an incredible insight into the nature of those people's purchases. I'm sure some clever individuals will be able to build a portable scanner and have some underpaid kids key in the corresponding plates... won't this be wonderful!
  • Arms race (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:13PM (#8375498)
    After this, of course, Wal-Mart comes up with the RFID-blocker-blocker. And then RSA develops the RFID-blocker-blocker-blocker. And so on.
    • Not necessary... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dimensio ( 311070 ) <darkstar@iYEATSglou.com minus poet> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:30PM (#8375713)
      ...I'm sure that they'll find some law, like the DMCA, to use against anyone who dares try to assert this bizarre "privacy right". If no law can currently be manipulated into supporting their agenda, they'll write a new one and pay Congress to enact it.
      • ...I'm sure that they'll find some law, like the DMCA, to use against anyone who dares try to assert this bizarre "privacy right".

        Probably the Patriot Act. That way they can just label the RFID blocker a Terrorist.
    • Re:Arms race (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Alan Cox ( 27532 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:37PM (#8375820) Homepage
      And I claim my RFID tag is for rights management and you go to jail. Easily solved. Come to think of it if you look suspicious I'm sure something like "going equipped to steal" would do for the carrier or nonsense like "accessory to a crime" to the manufacturer 8)

      Strange how DVD copying software is being ruled illegal as it might be used to commit a crime while high velocity rifle rounds that penetrate police armour and kill people are not.

      I guess Mickey Mouse is worth more than a pile of dead fbi men.

      • Re:Arms race (Score:5, Insightful)

        by the_mad_poster ( 640772 ) <shattoc@adelphia.com> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @03:13PM (#8376341) Homepage Journal

        Strange? No. The firearms industry has lots of money, the movie industry has lots of money, and politicians want lots of money. It makes perfect sense to me.

        In the meantime, I'll continue buying both as I damn well see fit (although to date I've not seen fit to buy either).

      • Re:Arms race (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) * on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @03:15PM (#8376384)
        The DVD copying software (DVD Xcopy i presume, as thats the one that was in the news recently) was ruled illegal because it circumvented copy protection measures, and under current statutes (DMCA) its an open-and-shut case, there isnt much else the Judge could have done. It didnt make 1:1 backup copies, because it did two things: transcoded the contents to make it fit, and allowed you to choose what you wanted copied. If it could make 1:1 copies, and that was all it did, then it would probably have passed ok, as it didnt surcumvent any acts. Dont blame me, dont blame the judge, blame the person who signed the law.
        • Re:Arms race (Score:3, Insightful)

          by GTRacer ( 234395 )
          If it could make 1:1 copies...

          IIRC, it *HAS* to be able to decrypt the DVD because standard burners can't write the CCA key. Kinda like how burning bit-perfect copies of PlayStation games is useless for an unmodded system.

          I wish these people would get over themselves. They should be THRILLED I want to make backups of their crappy movies. Actually, I don't want backups. I'm looking for DVD-to-MP3 ripping so I can listen to my favorites at work like Office Space, the Simpsons, South Park, Princess Brid

          • Re:Arms race (Score:3, Insightful)

            by brianosaurus ( 48471 )
            Radiohead called. You're watching those movies improperly, and you should stop doing so immediately.

            What I plan to do is backup all of my 300+DVDs (yes, the MPAA has made, and continues to make, a lot of money off me!) to a RAID, sans FBI warnings (which i've seen plenty of times already), trailers (which i've seen plenty of times already) and other stuff that doesn't work properly on my DVD player (ie. temporarily breaks the "next chapter" and "menu" buttons). Then I can watch any of the movies I have b
  • by davidpfarrell ( 562876 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:13PM (#8375499) Homepage
    So what keeps someone from sneaking DVD's out of a store in one of these magic bags?
    • by gfxguy ( 98788 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:18PM (#8375547)
      The same thing that keeps them from doing it now (hint: it's not RFID).
  • abuse (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stonebeat.org ( 562495 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:13PM (#8375501) Homepage
    RSA promises that this new technology will not interfere with the normal operation of RFID systems or allow hackers to use security technology to bypass theft-control systems.

    I think this kind of technology is asking to be abused. Just like the cell fone signal jammers.

  • goody bag (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mordac the Preventer ( 36096 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:14PM (#8375503) Homepage
    So once stores are using automated RFID-reading-Visa-charging tills instead of employing humans, you be able to get one of these bags, fill it with goodies, and walk out without paying?

    Sounds good to me.
  • Think Geek (Score:5, Funny)

    by WormholeFiend ( 674934 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:14PM (#8375506)
    I hope they start selling a t-shirt with a giant version of those tags printed on the front.
  • If I'd tried it... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by robslimo ( 587196 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:14PM (#8375507) Homepage Journal
    I probably would wind up getting sued. I guess you have to have a business plan to be able to jam signals without fear of prosecution (mostly kidding here).

    It does seem like a reasonable application but, as the story says, isn't intended to address the broad range of objections. Still, protecting privacy of medical information is a step in the right direction... and what's to prevent me from applying it elsewise?

    • by C10H14N2 ( 640033 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:37PM (#8375817)
      We have spent billions of dollars and centuries of research and development on a technology to prevent this kind of abuse. It can be embedded or layered onto another invention called "paper." Using a portable delivery device known as a "pen," pricing information can be recorded at the point of delivery. This technology can also be combined with device we call a "printer" to produce "bar-codes" that are machine readable. The resulting data-carrier, referred to as a "label," can be enclosed in another device known as a "bag" or "envelope," thus preventing any unwanted scanning by third-parties.

      Seriously, why the hell does your medical information need to be transmitted by radio to a fscking cash register? We can't train people to fscking READ anymore? Christ.
      • by H3lldr0p ( 40304 )
        "Seriously, why the hell does your medical information need to be transmitted by radio to a fscking cash register? We can't train people to fscking READ anymore?"

        Well, think of it from a more profit-centric vein.

        Once they get all of that in place, then it would be trivial to have what you need as your medication also on an RFID, which would be hooked up to a despensing machine of some sort, and *poof*! No humans needed in the process at all. Suddenly all of those millions of dollars being wasted on employ

  • Low Tech Version (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lionchild ( 581331 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:14PM (#8375511) Journal
    Why not simply make the bag out of a material that simply dampens radio signals, opposed to sending out additional, confusing signals? It's a technique used to keep security sensors from detecting RFID security tags. And the substances that work are ..reasonably commonplace.
  • Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sunami ( 751539 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:14PM (#8375512)
    Why not just pull out the RFID?
    • Re:Simple Solution (Score:3, Informative)

      by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 )
      That might not be an option with all products. If it is sewn into the hem of a dress, or molded into the sole of a sneaker, removal might be a bit messy.
  • by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:15PM (#8375516) Homepage Journal
    RSA's next annoucment will be tags that will block the operation of the tags that block the operation of the tags on the things you buy. This will be offered as a security enhancement to stores to prevent the RFID system from being jammed.

    • by j-turkey ( 187775 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:23PM (#8375619) Homepage
      RSA's next annoucment will be tags that will block the operation of the tags that block the operation of the tags on the things you buy. This will be offered as a security enhancement to stores to prevent the RFID system from being jammed.

      Circumvention of circumvention technology.
      ERROR: DMCA buffer overflow

      • Why not? They make radar detector detectors... In those US States where they are illegal, the cops sometimes use them to nab people for using detectors.
        • Why not? They make radar detector detectors... In those US States where they are illegal, the cops sometimes use them to nab people for using detectors.

          Yeah, I was trying to make a joke. Just the same, I'll bite -- cause I happen to have some experience with this. Radar detectors are only illegal in VA and Washington DC (in the US, anyway). In these places they use VG2 (and other) detector detectors. However, it's illegal to scramble radar or (AFAIK) detector signals -- actually highly illegal. No

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:15PM (#8375518)
    About 6'2" tall, maybe... 2 feet wide... with a breathing hole if possible, and maybe some plastic towards the top to see out of.
  • Why Indeed (Score:5, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:15PM (#8375521) Homepage Journal
    Maybe it's just me, but this seems to not address any of the important RFID issues at all.

    Oh, I don't know about that. Seems this is just the thing to keep those guys wearing RayBans and black macks, lurking in an arcane sea-green Dodge Dart parked in the far corner of the drugstore parkinglot from discovering which medication you're on this week for your schizophrenia and irrational paranoia.

    • ...discovering which medication you're on this week for your schizophrenia and irrational paranoia.,

      Yah... thankfully I only suffer from rational paranoia... not like those poor unfortunates you mention...

      hey, how did you know the Dart is green anyways?? ... you-you're one of THEM, aren't you ... NNNOOoooo...

  • Great (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FictionPimp ( 712802 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:16PM (#8375535) Homepage
    Great, now I have to wear a body condom to block my RFID's... Actually, i'm glad to see companys looking at RFID in a responsible way. Hopefully between that and angry consumers, this can be a usefull technology without being a privacy hazard.
  • by theMerovingian ( 722983 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:17PM (#8375540) Journal
    The pharmacist provides your prescription in a special bag with the Blocker tags. When the drugs are in the bag, RFID readers are blocked.

    "Excuse me sir, could you please leave your stack of empty Walgreen sacks here at the counter"
    --Best Buy employee

    • "Excuse me sir, could you please leave your stack of empty Walgreen sacks here at the counter"
      --Best Buy employee

      "Is it just me, or does that guy look like he's wearing a coat stiched together from shopping bags?"

  • by MattT ( 130844 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:17PM (#8375546) Homepage
    What I want is to be able to disable the damm tags on anything I've already purchased and taken home!
  • Couldn't you keep them in a aluminum foil lined pouch or envelope to prevent them from responding?

    Although you really should have to do something like that, I would think that it would block the signal.

  • by Bob Cat - NYMPHS ( 313647 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:18PM (#8375556) Homepage
    That's what shoplifters use right now to defeat the currently used radio tags. 60 minutes did a segment on professional shoplifters [cbsnews.com] last Sunday. It's a $10 billion a year industry.

    Who told the criminals about Faraday cages? Did they learn it on the Internet? We need to remove this dangerous physics information from places kids and robbers can get it!

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Who told the criminals about Faraday cages?

      What is a Faraday Cage?

      A Faraday Cage is the phenomenon that occurs when you surround an object with a conductor (read: metal), basically stopping all charge from entering/exiting conductor.

      Here is a simple decution of why:
      Gauss's Law [gsu.edu] states when a conductor is charged the charge resides on the surface of the object--with a solid metal sphere, all the charge would be sitting on the outside surface.
      Now imagine a hallow sphere: The charge can only be on the surfa

  • by thesolo ( 131008 ) * <slap@fighttheriaa.org> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:19PM (#8375568) Homepage
    Essentially, the blocker tag system works by tricking readers that all the possible RFID tags are present at a given time. Because RFID readers can communicate with only one tag at a time, when multiple tags reply to a single query, the reader detects a collision.

    When that happens, the reader tries to communicate with each tag individually, asking each for its next bit, which identifies the portion of a binary tree the tag resides on. However, when queried in the presence of a blocker tag, the blocker tag also responds, but with a "0" and a "1" bit, confusing the reader and preventing it from getting valid responses.


    So couldn't you just always have a blocker tag with you at all times? Say you build one of these into your watch, for instance. Wouldn't that make a store's entire RFID system useless for the items you're carrying?

    Also, blocker tags in bags don't do anything to protect your privacy once you take the item out of the bag; so if the RFID tag is on clothing, it would still be active while you're wearing it, but not while you're walking out of the store with it. Something about that definitely doesn't seem right.
  • "this new technology will not interfere with the normal operation of RFID systems or allow hackers to use security technology to bypass theft-control systems" Is this not what the system is? The bag is made to bypass the reader. Take a bag into the store, Put stolen goods in bag. Walk out. How long until you can buy these bags or the material on Ebay.
  • Forget the tinfoil hat, I'd rather put this big over my head.
  • by Stone Rhino ( 532581 ) <mparke&gmail,com> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:20PM (#8375582) Homepage Journal
    You don't need a special chip to stop RFID tags from functioning. Look at the EZPass/FastPass/etc. systems in use on highway systems across the country. They come with a metallized plastic bag, similar to the antistatic ones that your hard drive came in, that blocks the signal from the EZPass so that you won't register when you don't want it to. All you need is your standard Anti-static bag. Drop your RFID tags in there and watch the readers try to find them. Signals won't penetrate: no chip necessary.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:22PM (#8375611)
    As described, what they've built is pretty much the embodiment of "harmful interference". It'll require an amedment to the FCC's Part 15 rules to be legal. Which seems fairly unlikely...
  • by NumLk ( 709027 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:23PM (#8375624)
    Seriously, they are very low power transmitters. Wouldn't a foil-lined bag (similar to those McDonald's uses to wrap burgers) produce the same results, at a much lower price, for the use described in the article? I'm really not trying to be a troll, it just seems like a very (comparatively) expensive solution to a problem with a cheap answer.

    Or perhaps...

    <conspiracy> It sounds to me like RSA actually has some other use in mind for these tags. </conspiracy>

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:25PM (#8375647)
    blocks from 10 MHz to 20 GHz mobilecloak [startsimple.com]
  • RFID on drugs? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:25PM (#8375649)
    The pharmacist provides your prescription in a special bag with the Blocker tags. When the drugs are in the bag, RFID readers are blocked.

    Uh...why would you need to put RFID tags on drugs or on drug containers in the first place?

    If you're talking about prescription filling errors, that would be solved overnight by two things:

    a)making doctors fill out prescriptions similarly to how most government forms are- one box per letter,capital letters(and when a prescription is rejected- the pharmacy makes it clear to the patient, AND the hospital, WHY. Doctors who can't be bothered to write clearly for the safety of their patient find themselves on the street).

    b)training pharmacists better, holding them and their employers accountable for mistakes, and FDA(or state) conducted spot checks(we check health codes at restaurants to make sure Jenny the short order cook doesn't store that pot in the wrong place, but we can't be bothered to have someone fill a prescription a few times a month and check the results at a lab?)

    If we're talking about theft(gillette's supposed reason for doing RFID), the major source of theft is armed(or claiming to be armed) robbers stealing powerful painkillers that have value on the black market.

    RSA is grasping at straws here, finding a solution to the problems with a solution that was invented out of thin air(for a real problem). Say that 5 times fast.

    • Re:RFID on drugs? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by CrazyTalk ( 662055 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:53PM (#8376021)
      RFID and/or barcodes on drugs can prevent errors in hospitals which cause many deaths per year in the US (dont have actual stats handy). In fact, it will soon be a requiremen that all drugs be barcoded in hospitals. If a drug is scanned before it is administered, and that scan is compared with a scan of the patients hospital wristband, incorrect drug and dosages can easily be caught. Prescription orders can be entered into the computer and verified by electronic signature, also eliminating mistakes due to sloppy handwriting.
  • Stupid example (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tomhudson ( 43916 ) <{moc.nosduh-arab ... {nosduh.arabrab}> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:27PM (#8375683) Journal
    Stupid example. Since when do pharmacists put rdif tags in your pill bottle? Sheesh.

    Not to mention a whole host of other problems. Seems RSA is looking for a new business model, seeing as their compression patent expired.

    • 1994: Since when do people want to visit other computers on a giant network?

      1984: Since when do people want an entire television channel devoted to videos of musicians singing and dancing?

      1974: Since when are terrorists going to attack airplanes?

      Just because it isn't happening now, doesn't mean it's not right around the corner. C'mon dude, get your head out of the sand.

      Just the thought of these tags gives every Walmart exec a permanent erection, from the distribution department to the ad department, and
  • Maybe it's just me, but this seems to not address any of the important RFID issues at all. Yes, but it sure solves the issue of it being difficult to steal items from stores that use RFID for inventory control! (I recall seeing on TV that the the professional "boosters" are already using foil-lined bags.)
  • Hang on a sec... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by metrazol ( 142037 )
    ...so I get RFID tags on my bottles of pills. Great. Then I put them in this bag and the tags are jammed. Ok.

    SO WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF THE TAGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!

    If I have to take the bottle out of the bag to show it to the pharmacist or cashier or whoever when I want to get a refill or pay, why not just put a goddamn BAR CODE on the stupid bottle!?! There! Done! I show you the bottle, you do something with it. Bam! Just like what we have today! No extra cost! No upgrades! No new hard
  • I think this proves that tin foil hats do not go far enough, rather we need tin foil suits to protect us from 'them'
  • RFID nuking (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BritGeek ( 736361 ) <biz@@@madzoga...com> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:32PM (#8375748)
    One of the main complaints about RFID - that RSA's announcement doesn't address - is that consumers should have the right to have the tags "nuked" at point of sale. That implies that:
    1. The tags themselves have to be designed with fusible links (so that they can be overloaded & die), and
    2. The POS devices have the option of tag nuking, or maybe some area at the POS where tagged goods can be placed that will nuke them. (Many stores already have those pads that wipe out inventory control tags to prevent theft - same kind of notion.)
    So, the question at a practical level is - is the industry actually responding to this, or is RSA's announcement just bandwagon hopping?
  • by Eric Smith ( 4379 ) * on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:33PM (#8375757) Homepage Journal
    FCC regulations prohibit deliberately interfering with radio communication. 47 CFR 15.5(b)
    • FCC regulations prohibit deliberately interfering with radio communication. 47 CFR 15.5(b)

      You're right, as far as actively transmitting goes. But something passive (like stuffing an RFID tag into an ESD bag or maybe even tinfoil) would not contravene this regulation.

      Here's the text...

      Title 47, CFR Section 15.5 General conditions of operation.

      (b) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference
  • ESD bags? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Laurion ( 23025 ) <laurion.lebor@net> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:36PM (#8375796) Homepage
    Odd. When I want to block an RFID tag, I put it an ESD bag. (Electrostatic bag, the kind that come with many computer components). When I ordered an RFID based automated toll-booth system, it came with an ESD bag, and in their FAQ they explicitly state that if you don't want your tag read and your account charged, just put the device in the bag, easy as that. Presumeably, an ESD bag (which has enough metal in it to accomodate a random static discharge) would create a Faraday cage around the tag, and keep the radio signals from getting in or out of the bag. Now all I have to do is make a shopping bag out of ESD bags.... or just line a backpack, and _bam_. Shoplifter's dream. just remember to close the bag first....
  • Why would it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheCabal ( 215908 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:37PM (#8375811) Journal
    Maybe it's just me, but this seems to not address any of the important RFID issues at all.

    Why would this address any of the important issues. The important issues are based in policy, not technology. Technology enforces policy.
  • SCO has issued a 'cease and desist' letter to the RSA, claiming that their use of RFID blocking technology violates SCO's IP wherein they use 'patented processes' to block RFID tag scanning. Patent searches reveal that SCO has recently hired several convicted shoplifters and their associated technologies now belong to SCO.
  • Maybe it's just me, but this seems to not address any of the important RFID issues at all.

    First, enlighten us and tell us what the "important RFID issues" are.

    Then, tell us why this device was supposed to resolve them, and didnt.
  • damn, damn, damn, damn

    If I had only waited a few years to steal.
  • by akmolloy ( 686919 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:49PM (#8375965)
    We've tested it here at the UCONN Library. We use RFID tags on our books, and if you know where the tag is and hold a pack of cigarettes in front of it when you leave, it will block the tag from being read. In this case, tinfoil really WILL protect you!
  • RFID Jammer (Score:3, Funny)

    by Linus Sixpack ( 709619 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:51PM (#8375985) Journal
    Should market a powerred belt buckle with enough strength of signal to jam everything in a reasonable area. I imagine a suitably rebelious buckle with a little battery.

    I know people who would buy one just to be difficult, others because they are smart.

    ls
  • by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @02:56PM (#8376053) Homepage
    The problem with all of this stuff is that I have no way to check any of it for myself. How do I know that the "blocker bag" they gave me works? How do I know that someone won't start a business of supplying cheap substitutes, for businesses that want to pacify their customers, that look like real blocker bags but don't do anything? What do I look for? The genuine RSA seal? What if the pharmacist hands me a bag that has some other company's seal on it? Do I trust it?

    Will there be a TRUSTe seal on the bag to tell me that I can trust the company that made the bag... just like the TRUSTe seal that certified that eToys would never sell their customer list?

    Suppose I have a genuine RSA-branded blocker bags with an authentic non-counterfeitable TRUSTe hologram on it. How do I know it's working properly? Will the pharmacy supply a "blocker bag scanner," like the price-checking guns in Walmart, that let me verify that the blocker bag is actually working? Will the blocker bag scanner have a Commonwealth of Massachusetts weights-and-measures sticker on it to assure me that it's working properly?

    If the answer is that I should just trust the pharmacist to be telling the truth when he says it's a blocker bag... well, why shouldn't I just trust the pharmacy not to do anything bad with the data they are capturing from all the RFID tags I'm wearing?

    Just because CVS/Pharmacy gave a marketing firm a list of diabetic customers to sell to companies marketing products for diabetics doesn't mean they'd ever do such a thing again. Heck, that was way way back in dark ages... 1998.

    These companies are all like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. Trust us, trust us, trust us... even though we've betrayed your trust over and over again in the past, we'll never do it again.
  • by Syberghost ( 10557 ) <`moc.tsohgrebys' `ta' `tsohgrebys'> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @03:17PM (#8376406)
    What do you mean? This addresses the very most important problem with RFID, namely:

    The fact that RSA can't make any money off it!
  • by peter303 ( 12292 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @03:17PM (#8376409)
    I wish I could have a gizmo that would disale cell-phones withing ten or so feet. It would be very useful in movie theaters, on the bus, in restaurants, etc.
  • by jackalope ( 99754 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @03:26PM (#8376526)
    After working for several months with the new EPC compliant tags (what WalMart has mandated) I can, with a great level of assurance, say that one does not need a chip to prevent reading of the chips, that is way overkill, and probably not really reliable.

    There are a couple ways to easily defeat the chips:
    1) put the product inside of a foil lined bag. Doesn't even have to be heavy foil, any slightly metalic foil will block the RF signal to the point that the tag cannot be read.
    2) Hold the product close to your body. The water in your body absorbs the RF signal, silencing the backscatter RF signal.
    3) Put two standard RFID chips close together and the antennas will 'shadow' each other, blocking the signal from both.

    From my experience it is harder to read the tags than it is to not read the tags. (the fact that you can read a tag is almost a miracle in itself) To build an entire chip to defeat an RFID chip is just stupid.

    RSA is just looking for something else to patent, like they did the RSA algorithm.

    Nothing here...move along
  • Tagging Meds? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by severoon ( 536737 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @04:22PM (#8377267) Journal

    Excuse me, but why would they put RFID tags on items like medicines and then design bags to block them from the view of the RFID system? Why not, uh...just not tag them in the first place?

    The more I read about this RFID thing, the more I'm thinking the idea just hasn't come along to the point where it has to be. Obviously, if these issues are getting discussed at a high level, we need to put something in place that's a bit more targetted to the problem: we want to be able to read items for a specific purpose, and no other purpose. Walk out of a store with items, get automatically charged to the credit card = good. Someone sitting in the parking lot with an RFID reader able to tell you just walked out with Preparation H, herpes medication, and a coffee enema kit = bad.

    I'm betting that the propeller-heads among us have the capability to solve this problem, technologically I'm talking. Also, do we have to start out tagging everything? Why not just tag the non-controversial items? Let's not start with the Complete Homeopathic Colon Invasion Toolkit (TM), or people themselves. Let's start with something a bit more pedestrian and refine things from there...

    sev

  • by ggwood ( 70369 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @04:26PM (#8377307) Homepage Journal
    Just let all information formats on RFID tags be public. Let anyone buy a reader. Obviously, going in to a store with a RFID tag re-writer would be a problem, but the checkout-register could doublecheck randomly.

    Make storing customer personal information on such a tag a felony, even if the customer signs any forms indicating otherwise. Business can still use RFID for quick checkout, inventory management, etc.

    Since we all have readers, we can doublecheck that the tags are, in fact, erased. I would suggest having readers all over the store, even on the way out. If they are not properly, totally erased, bring them back to the counter. Even 10% of customers doing it would provide major incentive to get the tags erased correctly, the first time.

    In fact, why don't we walk around the store with RFID readers? That way we can check the real price of each item - no confusion or misleading shelf placement. If there is a rebate, that information should be on the tag.

    Lastly, to achieve nirvana, all we have to do is require the wages of people who made the item on the RFID tags. That way the (now well informed) consumer can choose between shoes, clothing or other goods made in various countries - and actually be confronted with how little people earn in some places. Sure not everyone will care, but enough will.
  • by Teahouse ( 267087 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @04:38PM (#8377452)
    It's bad enough that every corporate conglomo is going to be allowed to invade your privacy for their own records, but now there is going to be a second conglomo who is going to SELL you products to protect you from the first! Jesus H. Christo! We need to elect another political party because both current groups somehow think this is a good idea. They have both been sucking on the corporate teat too long.

  • by El ( 94934 ) on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @05:12PM (#8377782)
    When the drugs are in the bag, RFID readers are blocked. Take them out, they're readable... RSA promises that this new technology will not interfere with the normal operation of RFID systems or allow hackers to use security technology to bypass theft-control systems..." What kind of double speak is this? Look, either the technology blocks reading of RFID tags, or it doesn't. If it does block reading, it enables people to bypass theft control systems. If it does not, it does not protect privacy. It's as simple as that! RSA is trying to convince us their technology is smart enough to tell the difference between an honest drug consumer and a shoplifter?!? WTF?!?
  • Anti-XRay Specs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@gee k a zon.com> on Tuesday February 24, 2004 @07:18PM (#8379478) Homepage
    Seems to me we are about to be dragged into a consumer privacy Cold War that will make SPAM and computer viruses look like idle fun. How do you want to live?

    a) Get used to having your every move recorded in a giant marketing/antiterrorism/conformity database. Ignore little annoyances like being IRS audited every year because you checked the wrong books out of the library.

    b) Buy and continuously upgrade your array of privacy-protection technology.

    c) Live in a shack in the hills and deal only through barter.

    d) Armed revolt.

    I don't personally find any of these attractive.

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