U.S. Penalizes Ukraine for Abetting 'Piracy'
Posted by
michael
on Thu Jan 03, 2002 03:24 PM
from the communists-a-little-too-free-for-us dept.
from the communists-a-little-too-free-for-us dept.
The Politech mailing list has a note and follow-up on new trade restrictions levied against Ukraine, since they haven't complied with the U.S.'s demand for 'an
optical media licensing regime.' John Gilmore's response puts the issue in perspective. Update: 01/03 23:08 GMT by M : The RIAA has a press release about the trade penalties and response to Gilmore.
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U.S. Penalizes Ukraine for Abetting 'Piracy'
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Looks like the US... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Looks like the US... (Score:5, Insightful)
But if some foreign country's citizens cause a theoretical loss to a U.S. company, then that's an entirely different matter.
Re:Looks like the US... (Score:4, Insightful)
Movies aren't real life. Great Britain captured the U-boat and cracked the enigma code. Ever heard of a guy called Allan Turing?
Double Standard (Score:3, Insightful)
If don't want something here in America, why should we want it for countries abroad?
Re:I'm not sure I see the issue.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Obviously, you have to release the information anonymously, othervice they would kill you.
Unfortunately, all the paper in the world is marked. The manufacturer has inserted a unique watermark, and they have extensive records of who buys each sheet of paper. If the secret police get their hands on any of the documents you distribute, it will point right back at you. You'll be dead.
To figure out who the "pirates" are, this is what RIAA et al. wants, even if they don't dare state it up front. They want extensive records of all the CDs, so that when a "pirated" CD is found, it points right back at everyone involved, and they can be nailed for it.
I think this small label is not going to do much to achieve that goal, but it is really beside the point.
And so what? Paper is one thing, CDs is an entirely different matter?
OK, so you get a piece of footage. Compressed down to 650 MB (by Ogg Tarkin... :-) ), you can burn it on CDs and distribute it to have it aired worldwide.
Unfortunately, because RIAA needs protection from "pirates" you can't do that. You can't do that to free your country from oppression.
OK, this is a bit far-fetched perhaps, but you never know if this could happen.
Uhhh... wait a second... (Score:5, Insightful)
Next thing we'll have telephone answering machines recording what phone numbers people are calling from....video libraries recording who
borrowed each book and when.....Internet ads that track and record who saw them...hotel room doors that record every time each person goes in or out...cellphones that report every move we make to the authorities...tollbooths that record every car that goes through them... guards in every airport demanding to see 'our papers' before we are permitted to travel in our own country...
Hmmm... Caller ID machines, Doubleclick.net, and Electronic, DB controlled locks at hotels and Post 9-11 'random checks' at airports.
Gilmore's being sarcastic, isn't he?
Remember that the U.S. stoped being 'Of the people, for the people a long time ago'. It's been 'Of the corporate interest for the corporate intrest for quite a while... at least since the Vietnam War, (The Johnsons had a significant stake in Bell Helicopter, which profited outrageously from the war) and probably before, but I'm not a good enough history student to tell you how far back.
I know a 'Sherman Act' would sure as hell never make it out of committee in today's congress.
Well, when it gets too repressive, now I know where I can go. They speak Russian in the Ukraine, right?
United States Iron Fist? (Score:4, Insightful)
Or, is this a legitimate action? Why not protect people who work hard to make their intellectual products? Does information really want to be free, and, if it does, should it be? Who is to decide?
I often find myself torn between these two schools of thought, as I believe that the IP could be integral to the lives of those who do not have the resources to pay for it, but, then again, does that justify the essential theft of such IP? Chairity theft, perhaps?
It's all very complex. Any opinions? I'd hate it if the US hurt more innocent people, only because of something as seemingly insignificant as IP law.
Re:United States Iron Fist? (Score:5, Insightful)
...steps should be made to try and curb the rampant disregard for software licenses.
Isn't a bit of a leap to presume that the laws of the United States prevail for the rest of the planet! You are talking about sovereign nations!
Except that powerful corporate interests defended by the United States would have these countries bend to their will. Who's the 'pirate', 'thief', 'criminal'? Yeah, sure, let's put a little downward economic pressure on the economic might of the Ukraine. Evil, evil, evil, greedy bastards. That's all I can think of to say.
While the world's exemplar of freedom becomes a police state, and a world police state at that; former police states embrace freedom. Interesting times, indeed.
Are color laser printers really tagging? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Reader, in case you didn't know, every color Xerox machine and color laser printer prints the serial number of the machine on every page they produce, covertly hidden in the output, under a long-standing private "arrangement" with the US Treasury Department. I have been unable to confirm whether this is also true of black-and-white xerox machines."
I'm as paranoid as the next PGP-using, hard-drive encrypting, tin-foil-hat-wearing guy. BUT... I have a really hard time buying this, and I cold not locate any creditble documentation on Google.
Anyone have any good links?
Re:Are color laser printers really tagging? (Score:5, Interesting)
[2] http://www.jj-johnson.com/copiers.htm
[3] http://www.c-prompt-dev.com/bulletin.0119.htm
[4] http://www.naqp.org/staging1/press/copier_fraud.h
[5] http://www.parascope.com/articles/0197/xerox.htm
Back in late 1998, a fella by the name of Michael Castle, I think he was a republican from the north east, said that his committee was considering tagging laser printers the same way that color copiers are already tagged. Search yahoo or google looking for color copier references instead of laser printers, might help a bit in your results.
Right back into the swing of things (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it fascinating that people like the Bush family can't figure out why America is globally hated.
"Sorry, you are not allowed to have strong encryption, supercomputers, nuclear weapons, shoes, food, oil, etc. Why? Because we are the USA, and we said so........"
(...a few years later...)
"Boo-hoo....I don't understand why these people are so mad at us...I don't understand why they would blow up our landmarks..."
Re:Right back into the swing of things (Score:5, Funny)
Here's a theory: The European elite have successfully shifted the blame for most of the messes of the developing world from their own colonial excesses and hasty post WWII withdrawls onto this vague notion of US hegemonic isolationist imperialism. Consequently the US gets blamed for getting involved and not getting involved simultaneously.
Whups... (Score:5, Insightful)
Whups, that already happened... Very sad, and not excusable. If a kid insults enough jocks at school, he's gonna get beat up. Sad, unexcusable, but there definately are preventative measures that could be taken.
I hope you learn the correct lessons. Being the toughest kid on the block shouldn't mean it's ok to thoughtlessly offend anyone you care to. Americans do this far more than they understand. It's time to re-learn the age old skill of diplomacy, understanding, and consideration of others.
Re:Right back into the swing of things (Score:4, Insightful)
You might want to take a US History class - truth is most of these regimes we end up dealing with - like Afghanistan were in fact "made in America" - the Taliban and Bin Laden - trained to fight the "evil empire". Iran? Well they were pissed that we helped prop up the sha of iran because the person who was going to replace was a bit too leftist (IE a commie!). I think they still want his assets back. 1969 - Cuba - Fidel Castro and his team overthrow Bastist - why? Because he was a ruthless dictator - why would the cubans vote him in? They didn't - the US put him there. Same with the dictators in South America, Mexico, Indonesia, the Phillipeans - just about every place there is unrest and strife we had our hands in.
History repeats itself (Score:5, Insightful)
The only thing that this will cause is Ukraine products being shipped somewhere else. This doesn't sound too good, since the former Soviet Union prevented OPEC from cutting production on oil, thereby giving us low gas prices ($.99 where i live)just one month ago!
Hope this doesn't mean that my gas prices will go up to subsidise software companies' "right to innovate"
The RIAA says... (Score:4, Funny)
Human Rights vs. IP (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess it shows what the U.S. is about, eh?
Re:Human Rights vs. IP (Score:5, Interesting)
Frightening (Score:5, Insightful)
I know some people might say I'm overreacting, but this honestly scares me. Over the course of this week, we've given full trade access to China, despite the fact that it is a communist nation of the worst kind that openly hunts, tortures, and kills people for belonging to a religion that isn't sanctioned by the government or coming anywhere near defying the government's will, and we've punished Ukraine for abetting piracy.
For Americans, we are now living under a government that cares far more about the profits of groups like the RIAA and MPAA than it does about human lives and our country's base freedoms. This week, it has rewarded one country for cruelty, torture, murder, and oppression, while punishing another for having a potential small effect on industry groups that make large contributions to political campaigns. The DMCA is a stupid and dangerous peace of legislation, and the SSSCA might fully qualify as evil... but these trade decisions belong to a whole new level of sick that nothing else on Slashdot has ever brought up.
The most powerful government in the world openly caring more about profits than about human lives... welcome to the world of several of the dystopian future sci-fi novels you've read.
Re:Frightening (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? Which part?
- Totalitarian government in China
- Human rights abuses in China
- China recently given MFN trading status
- Ukraine recently penalized for copying content
I don't really care how or why any entity behaves the way they do. All that matters are actions. You believe that it is not the intent of any in the US govt to be evil. I believe that too. IT IS IRRELEVANT. Look only at the actions...from actions you can discern true intent rather than marketing messages. The intent of the US govt is exactly as the previous poster stated.
The core issue (Score:4, Interesting)
I find an interesting correlation here between "lassaie faire" business practices and the anti-corporation/IP movement. The movement wants corporations to recieve no help from the government for their business practices (IP, relief from economic hardship, etc), which are essentially leftist ideals. However, the fairly right ideal of lassaise faire essentially espouses the same thing, no? By all means correct me if I'm off base here.
(btw: sorry for the poli-labeling, but it helps to illustrate the constrasts in my point.)
Putting it all in some perspective....... (Score:3, Insightful)
optical media licensing regime that would preclude the piracy of such
products," the U.S. government has levied 100 percent tariffs on
Ukraine exports such as fuel oil, sneakers, paper, and diamonds. --Declan]"
Do we actually BUY that much stuff from them? It seems most of these exports can find ready markets elsewhere. It seems the loss in trade is greater than any piracy could be. Any comments?
Both Ways (Score:4, Insightful)
It becomes a matter of disrespect for national self rule. Also it is a matter of foreign policy being dictated by greed of business interests, morte than anything else.
I somehow like the old system where there always was a place on the planet that was outside the reach of the grasping hand of your local government. This is starting to go away now. Not yet, but soon.
From John Gilmore's Response (Score:5, Insightful)
> the patent licenses issued by Philips). It requires that each CD
> burner record on the CD the serial number of the recorder, so that
> every burned CD-R can be traced back to which individual CD-burner
> recorded it.
Now _this_ was news to me. I'd like to see this proven or debunked. Is this software driven, or done by drives' firmware when a burn is started? Is there any way to disable this?
I don't mind my drive containing an electronic copy of its serial number for the purposes of identifying an individual unit with the manufacturer if I happen to need service.
I sure as hell mind if my drive is disclosing that information without my knowledge or consent!
As an example: John Doe works in a government agency, and notices some truly heinous and illegal activities going on with regards of that agency towards citizens of that government. John wants to blow the whistle, but he isn't stupid either. He anonymizes the information as best he can, cites several sources within the agency for the information in question, and writes it to a series of 5 CD-R's that he then sends to major newspaper editors in the hopes that they'll print it. CD-R's are the write-once/read-many diskette of the day, after all, and you don't have to worry about accidental magnetic erasure, so John thought he was being smart.
The story gets printed, there's a huge public outcry, the agency gets investigated, and this goes all the way to charges being laid and a lot of very powerful people being made _very_ uncomfortable, and quietly swearing to find the mole and give unto him a share of the misery that they are going through.
Fine, it's fictional, it probably has holes in it, and I've probably not drafted the perfect hypothetical scenario, but the basic gist of it is there.
There's a lot of cases where accidental disclosure of any information that would allow the source to be accurately identified is a _bad_ thing. Admittedly in some cases it can be a good thing, but I'm leery of making it _too_ easy.
Is there any way to prevent this little function from working correctly?
1. Change the electronic serial number of the drive?
2. Disable the routine that spits out a serial number?
3. Disable the routine that writes the serial number to the drive?
Rom microcode disassembly anyone?
Don't like it? Complain! (Score:5, Informative)
Kira Alvarez, Office of Services, Investment and Intellectual Property, Office of the United States Trade Representative (202) 395-6864
David Birdsey, Office of European Affairs, Office of the United States Trade Representative, (202) 395-3320
William Busis, Office of the General Counsel, Office of the United States Trade Representative, (202) 395-3150
(Me, I'd like to see some unbiased reports on this thing before making a decision, as neither Politech nor the RIAA seem like the best sources of information for something like this. But there's none of that being posted here, just loads of "me too!" posts. If you're certain its wrong, get off your "trying to be geeky cool" ass and do something...)
ARRGH, I hate it when people say that! (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop posting lameass "boy this sucks" complaints on Slashdot, and, if you don't like this, complain.
This attitude is half the problem, it implies that any tenable solution comes via working thru the system - what a crock! The only way people are going to get real results is thru outright civil disobedience of intellectual property law.
When you just talk, that's all you're going to get back - bullshit. I am so sick and tired of self-proclaimed self-rightous clowns wanting me and others to direct our efforts to something so useless and so beholden to those who want to controll us. They would have Martin Luther King go on letter writing campaigns to klan funded congreeemen instead of gatherings and sit outs. No thank you.
Anybody who wants some real results will get far better milage by defying copyright laws, putting freenet servers on their systems, and doing the things you like doing for and with "free" (as in freedom) software as much as possible.
What can be done? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, really. We Canadians are taxed around 55% of our total income. Our own government (my province anyways) allows companies the right to a monopoly in areas like Home/Auto Insurance, Transportation, local Telco etc... and even worse, grants those companies the right to levy citizens, even if those citizens don't use the service provided by the company (eg. Bus tax on Auto-Insurance).
I've always said that our governemt could not get away with, or even propose, the things they do here in any other country. The people wouldn't stand for it.
What I want to know, is what Americans do when their government does something that obviously by the replies to this post, the people don't agree with. Do you guys just sit by and bitch about it like us Canadians?
I've come to accept that nothing I do or say will change the vast scheme of the big-business take over in the world. I'm not rich enough to have a voice. I've written letters, petitioned my local office, even protested, nothing changes.
So I ask in this case of the world's self-proclaimed big-brother pushing around yet another perfectly content country. What are American Citizens going to do about it?
American Citizenship Responsable? (Score:3, Insightful)
Disclaimer stated, are the citizens of a country considered responsable for the country's actions?
Specifically should these sanctions be considered the fault of the average american who chooses not to prevent their own government from taking such actions?
I see lots of people complaining about America no longer being for the people, instead for corporations. Does anyone else out there wonder if these same people have done even so much as to write a letter to their representatives making these decisions?
Just some questions. Any one else have any thoughts?
Re:American Citizenship Responsable? (Score:4, Insightful)
One could demonstrate, but given history as well as recent trends, mass movements take a long time to develop and a lot of effort to sustain. Demonstrations reported on TV the past 10 years or so have been portrayed in a very negative light no matter what the cause. Not surprising seeing who controls the media.
Things in the US and other mature democracies will not change in a significant way short of violent unrest with a clear leader and organized agenda. Even then it is doubtful change would last.
Baby steps to get the US government responsive to its citizens are:
1. campaign finance reform to remove the so-called two party system and increase third party viability
2. a belief that government is actually responsive to the needs and desires of its citizens. The corollary of course being citizens be active in the political process.
3. a belief that "market forces" are not always the best solution to a problem. You'd think that the events of 9-11 would pound this home, but the response of the government says otherwise.
None of this wil occur in my lifetime, but it will occur. History is cyclical and repeats itself despite humanity's resistance.
Re:American Citizenship Responsable? (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps the question should be, "Will the citizens of a country be held accountable, to some outside standard, for their government's actions?" And to that, I think the answer is a resounding YES!
Sooner or later, if someone is pissed off by what you do, or what they perceive you as doing, they will seek to do you harm. You have a choice: refrain from the action that offends, or prepare to defend against the attack that will come. The choice depends, of course, on one's perception of risk and fair play.
The notion of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" certainly seams to be a good start at identifying "fair play" even as it can be interpreted differently by the parties involved. I am not a religeous person, but that mantra does seam to pervade many of the world's prevelent faiths and generally comes off as a "good idea".
But, against that standard, I think we can agree that the U.S.A. has flexed its muscles in ways that it would not like to have flexed against it, and thus has violated that golden rule. Does it come as a surprise then that this pisses some people off? And that some of those who are pissed off might managage to express that by killing a few thousand people in a rather public and spectacular fashion?
Right or wrong doesn't come into it: piss people off and you run an increased risk of dying. This does not mean that one should roll over for every tin-pot dictator, but it does mean that one should examine one's government's actions and decide if they truly serve one's best interests and security.
Economic imperialism (Score:3, Insightful)
However, the US government has been using this kind of economic imperialism tactics in almost every domain and industry to bully other countries, big and small (not that everything always works the way the US government want to, though). Unfortunately, a lot of those are not interesting to the typical
Well, get out of the US, talk to the honest people who are trying to do business with the US (which shout out loud on every roof that they are pro-free-trade, human right protector and freedom figther), and you will get really nasty horror stories.
Maybe next time, you will think twice before electing (or letting the court appoint) a president. Or maybe you will get involved more too. And maybe, some days, the world might be better too.
Re:Economic imperialism (Score:4, Insightful)
[cough]
NEXT time?
think TWICE?
You're still operating under the delusion that people care enough to vote? That slashdot readers
vote? That any statistically significant portion of ANY educated group bothers to vote?
That's just *vote* mind you.
Never mind that they don't inundate their representatives with hard, well-written correspondence. Let alone joining the party
or truly participating in the process of representative government.
Sovereignty - Schmovereignty! (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder how our USian friends would react to a demand that they create/alter some legislation to suit the needs of some non-US multinational? I guess things like national sovereignty only apply to superpowers, and the industries they represent.
And why is it that when the it is decided that some sort of multi-lateral standard is required, why is the US standard is the one that almost certainly adopted?
U S Measurements... (Score:4, Funny)
Can you imagine if US standards of measurement would be applied to Science?
Instead of:
Meters you have Yards
Milimeters you have Inches
Centimeters you have eigths (and half the country can't do fractions..)
Where the hell did a foot come from?
Instead of Nanotechnology, you'd have pinkie toe technology.
Would anyone have a clue as to wafer size?
Sometimes when you see the U.S. coming, it IS best to just run for the hills, and it's NOT because of military might..
About time. (Score:3, Insightful)
While I am against market control to the extent that industry is trying with DVD's (region encoding controlling which discs you can play and from where you can purchase them), I do believe that protection of intellectual property is required to provide a more stable environment in which to do business. What is going on in Ukraine, and other countries such as Russia, China and the rest of Asia, is directly damaging to America's interests. We are providing the capital for the software development, and yet others are reaping the rewards, in effect stealing our labor and capital. This is wrong. If we were a rogue state that did not respect international intellectual property conventions/laws I would feel differently. However, we are one of the most strict enforcers of copyright/patent laws, and feel we deserve the same in return. (yeah, I know, our patent office is a joke, but this has nothing to do with enforcement of law). Difficult thing is, countries which do not respect international intellectual property laws tend to have little or no intellectual property themselves, thus it is to their immediate economic benefit to steal, and we can't do anything in return except impose tarrifs on their products.
I do think Ukraine is being unfairly singled out, and that the main thieves of intellectual property, Russia and China, should have been targeted first. I can only think that this is due to the fact that Ukraine is one of the main recipients of U.S. foreign aid.
Just to end on a personal note, I do find myself conflicted when it comes to punishing people for pirating Microsoft IP. It is a struggle between my love of country, and hatred of Microsoft's business practices, but in the end, love of country wins out.
This really pisses me off (Score:4, Informative)
China, after all, is a country that murdered enough people in the 20th Century to make Hitler look like an amateur. It's a country that forces women to have abortions, that jails religious leaders and condems them to death, that wants to hide it's citizens from the Internet...
Not only that, but just last year, China forced down a US plane over international waters, KIDNAPPED airmen, and tried to ransom them.
China is FAR more deserving of 100% tariffs than is Ukraine. But then, Ukraine isn't home to American megacorp sweatshops, and doesn't willingly supply slave labor to man them.
When will it end? How do we fight a war against the corporate IP cartel? How far will our government let it go?
The way I see it, all the way to the world of "Demolition Man" or "Rollerball", so long as our sheepizens keep voting for the same old parties.
Bending over for corporations is a bi-partisan effort. Both parties do it almost equally.
Re:This really pisses me off (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only that, but just last year, China forced down a US plane over international waters, KIDNAPPED airmen, and tried to ransom them.
Well, there is debate as to whether it was intentional or not. Me, I don't know either way. That being said though, the plane did land on Chinese soil and were taken away. Sure, they had little other choice, but if they're in China, they're in China.
Contrast that to the US, who has, several times, executed foreign nationals without even letting them speak with a consular representative, and whose population and many poilitical figures have mostly decided that the Al-Quaeda members that were attacking the US's values do not deserve those values, which clearly sends the message that 'American freedoms are for Americans only'. If the US really believed in equality for all before the law, there wouldn't even be a debate. I'm surprised they're even considering a trial, it'll be a kangaroo court anyway.
--Dan
Visited Kiev recently (Score:3, Informative)
1) Yes, the piracy level is really insane there in Ukirane. The price of "a software" is $2 per CD. No matter what it is - Windows, Oracle, any games, etc. Just $2, and you can buy it in kiosks at any shopping mall, near almost every bus stop, etc. The situation with music and video is similar. Most of the music now is in MP3 format, so 1-2 disc set covers all the albums of an artist. The discs also contain an MP3 player (Winamp usually) plus album lyrics, pictures, etc. The same $2 per disc.
2) I talked to some people selling the pirated stuff. From what they told me, almost all the software CDs are made in China. The video and audio discs usually come from Russia, China and Bulgaria. Not Ukraine.
3) Average monthly salary there is about $50-100; individuals could not buy the licensed software anyway. It's not an excuse, of course; JFYI.
4) Ukrainian companies is different story. They do buy licensed software. I'd say, the piracy level in corporations there is on about the same level as here in the US.
Serial numbers on copy machine ouput not true (Score:4, Informative)
I once spent 6 years of my life fixing photocopiers (Thank god I write code now). I can say that the comment above is absolutly not true. The technology used in all black and white photocopiers, and in all color copiers that use toner rather than a photographic process, does not have a high enough resolution to accuratly embed a serial number into the "pixels" of a copy.
It's hard enough just to get the black areas dark enough and the white areas bright enough much less having to worry about modifying individual pixels.
Moreover, most photocopiers work by shining a bright light on the original and using the reflected light off the page to effect the static charge on a selenium covered drum. The original is not scanned, modified, and re-broadcast onto the drum.
The new digital copiers do scan the original one time and then use a laser to "print" the page on the drum from memory, but then you have to ask yourself:
It's unfortunate that Gilmore makes these outrageous claims in an otherwise well thought out article. It seems to push him from the "well-informed protector of our rights" to "crackpot". I wish he would write about what he understands instead of resulting to conspiracy theories. There is enough evil in the RIAA without having to make up conspiracies.
Contact Information (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.ustr.gov/about-ustr/contactustr.shtm
By Telephone:
USTR Individual Offices [ustr.gov]
USTR Public Information Line (TOLL-FREE)
1-888-473-USTR (8787)
By Mail:
United States Trade Representative
600 17th Street, N.W.
Washington, DC 20508
United States of America
By E-Mail:
questions regarding information on our site can be directed to contactustr@ustr.gov. (Your e-mail will be directed to the appropriate office.)
Re:A note to the anarchists... (Score:3, Insightful)
This extends to the soveriegn rights of nations.
Also, it's at least understandable when the Robber Barons themselves advocate these sorts of police state measures. They are looking out for their own interests. However, it is quite pathetic when a mere peasant such as yourself rises in their defense.
Quite simply, the Titans don't need you.
Piracy has always been rampant. Yet despite this, media conglomerates and software publishers continue to thrive. So obviously your first stated article of faith is simply dead wrong.
Infact, much of Microsoft's current success is due to the tolerance of piracy. They just want to have their cake and eat it too now.