Microsoft Says Not All Ad Clicks Are Created Equal 186
kyle6477 writes to share that Microsoft is hoping to change the way advertising is thought of, and ultimately valued, online. Their new Engagement ROI tool tries to track a user's ad clicking habits and distribute the credit over all of the ads that led to an eventual sale as opposed to the last ad clicked getting all the credit. "Say a consumer sees an ad for a product in a video ad one day, and then clicks on a text ad to visit the retailer's site the next day, and then eventually sees a banner ad that leads to a purchase. All of the monetary credit tends to go to the text link that was clicked on."
Equal ads (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Equal ads (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Equal ads ... differences of grays... (Score:2)
ms is an UNEQUAL, opportunistic extractor.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Equal ads (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Equal ads (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Companies pay for ads, word of mouth is free.
Re:Equal ads (Score:5, Interesting)
- I don't care that you use AdBlock. If it's an ask slashdot about how to block ads, by all means post in response to that.
- I also don't care about all of you that don't even have a tv but must comment on every tv story.
- Nor do I care that Go is deeper than chess unless we're already discussing both of them (not just one).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You thief! (Score:4, Funny)
I keed, I keed, you guys are great, don't cancel my account please.
Re: (Score:2)
Interesting concept..
How does this degrade? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm fine with ads on the internet if it means that I don't have to pay for the content and that the hosting fees are covered with the earnings. But if it's an obnoxious
Unfortunately for marketers, that means that I don't see most of the ads, because the site that "hosts" the
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft got this capability, BTW, from their recent Aquantive acquisition. Google probably got some similar capability from DoubleClick, b
My guess (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that perhaps click through addds are a means to an end, in that they don't sell any product themselves but create awareness.
Once again tho, who are the people that actually buy something from a click through add, exempting porn of course, which everyone buys.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of people who use the Internet for porn do not pay for it. It's not exactly hard to come by.
Re:My guess (Score:4, Funny)
That is all.
Re:My guess ... Maybe he forgot to use Add / (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps that was a typo, but if so it was a rather clever one on several levels.
Re: (Score:2)
Lots of people are distracted by shiney. Some are so bad they infect their machine with a crapload of spyware within a day. All of this comes from the damned webads. They click on the viagra ad, the you won a free vacation ad and the "your computer is at risk russian spies are putting child porn on your computer now! click here to save yourself!!!!!" ad's.
T
Re: (Score:2)
I've clicked on ads. No, I don't buy products sold by spam. I click on ads because - and this really is mind-numbingly obvious - sometimes I'm interested in what the advertisers have to offer. Most frequently the ads I click on are on search result pages; I guess they're most likely to be relevant to what I'm looking for.
If I'm looking for, say, a new phone and I see an advert for the phone I want why woul
Re:My guess (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with you to a point.
One thing I find really annoying about google ads is that sometimes, while I'm loading the search results, the top-ranked item is trying to set a cookie. Those all get summarily rejected by me. But this is on the search results page, not from having clicked.
I don't agree with actually being asked to set a cookie when I haven't even gone to the site, but the way google is doing its searches, the person paying for the sponsored link
Re:My guess (Score:5, Informative)
That's probably what's going on.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmmmm
But, you make a valid point that the pre-fetching could be Firefox and not google. Interesting.
Thanks for the tip.
Cheers
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And I don't think my ads are too obnoxious. I wouldn't mind getting opinions though, http:\\www.techemperor.com. And yes, I also wouldn't mind getting a bunch of hits from slashdot for no apparent reason.
I've been trying to find any documentation on what the average CTR is for google textads, but no info has been forthcoming. Anyone have any statistics?
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, always going to the location bar and typing in the web add
Just an exuse (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just an exuse (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Just because they say it's for advertising does not mean that is the entire story.
Re: (Score:2)
But, since ISPs are able to slow your traffic enough to brute force any encryption or sniff out any torrents you're using (don't be so smug as to think the ISP isn't throttling your traffic to ferret out your encryption keys...), what's so hard about mshaft and ot
Re:Just an exuse (Score:4, Interesting)
Some sort of spyware would be built into the OS/Sivlerlight/whatever - it would be a "selling point" to get vendors to require the end user to accept such a thing in order to use the website.
Wasted Effort (Score:5, Insightful)
To put it another way, if one ad is generating a lot more revenue than other ads, there's a reason for this. Whether it be placement, timing, appropriate context, better design, or whatever. If none of these things are the case, then I submit that the ads should all be generating equivalent revenue.
In short, Microsoft is developing a solution in search of a problem. Either that or it's just another attempt at tracking the consumer's every last act, hidden under a patina of equitable distribution of ad revenue.
Re:Wasted Effort (Score:5, Insightful)
This is in fact an issue we, as advertisers, have been dealing with for a long time. One ad does not sell a product or service, rather it takes multiple avenues to get a message across. If this tool helps up view thread within an ad campaign and at what points the campaign has different levels of impact, it would allow us to tune our ad-spend to a very granular level.
Things like Adwords is a large toilet that we used to flush money down. Anything that makes our $$$ go further we are all for.
Regards,
Re: (Score:2)
Things like Adwords is a large toilet that we used to flush money down.
You are the marketing department... it is your job to flush money down the toilet. The best ads are word-of-mouth from trusted friends, anyway. A billboard (either the stationary kind or the kind on the back of a truck), newspaper/magazine spread, TV/Radio commercial, or internet ad can ONLY hope not to annoy me enough to decide never to buy the product.
The problem with the whole advertising system though is that it comes from a completely biased source, and I would rather get an opinion from an unbia
They get you subconciously (Score:2)
I wish that were true. While there are some products/services whose ads drive me away from the product, I think what happens most of the time is that I forget I've seen the ad, but next time I see the product name, it seems familiar.
A couple years ago, I saw ads for SAP in the airport that communicated ZERO about what it is or does, but just claimed that great businesses use it. Recently I was told to find out ab
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember hearing about a study where people rated one of two identical breakfast cereals as tasting better, simply because it came in a more attractive box. We are not as objective as we like to think.
Yeah, I agree that packaging matters. So much so, in fact, that knockoff brands tend to use packing similar to the brand they are imitating. I would say a real renegade would buy his breakfast in the bag instead of the box that the overpriced General Mills or Post stuff comes in. That said, I like Cheerios and Honey Nut Cheerios because of its taste and it usually has a more reasonable price than most other stuff (about $0.25 per bowl of cereal). And everytime I buy knockoff brand Cheerios, I am disap
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You've posted the very incorrect raw material cost analogy. Raw material cost != actual cost to create: if I distill a CPU to just some bits of metal & silicon it's cost will be hardly anything. If I distill a skyscraper to just buying a quantity of raw concrete and metal, it's cost will be just a fraction of what it cost to put it up (we'll ignore the window drapes, elevator
Re: (Score:2)
If I walk into a friends house and see a big Sony TV, then see a big Sony TV in a movie product placement, walk by a nice, big Sony TV in Best Buy, and finally buy a big Sony TV from Amazon via a text-based ad, who deserves the money?
This Microsoft thing sounds interesting, but I think that it's overstating the value of online ads. Typically, online ads aren't for branding... they are attempts at guessing what you want based on context (search) or by tric
Re: (Score:2)
1) A lot of online advertising is for branding. Look at the automotive companies that advertise online, for example... they don't honestly expect people to click the ad and immediately buy a car.
2) The real point to all of this is this one little nugget: Online ads can
Re: (Score:2)
And you think that one of the companies receiving those $$$ is interested to make a change to earn less? Or is it rather a change to charge more as they can then "prove" that the more ads they deliver, the more sales will be generated? How long until they propose that they track your customers and then charge you extra because one of your customers looked at one of the ads 10 days a
This is why people block ads (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
The customer (the company advertising) will have better metrics. Let's say you've got two banner ads (A and B) and a video ad (C). It turns out that out of all the combinations, having the ads viewed in B-C-A order is most succesful. Now the advertiser can model future campaigns on this one. In the past, they may have thought the "A" ad was the best, but they didn't realize it was
Re: (Score:2)
Or perhaps the ads that create an impression that results in a purchase are measurably distinct from the ads people click on. In that case, advertisers would like to data mine to see which ad impressions correlate with purchases and such.
Of course, there is the whole privacy / tracking issue...
Like sports, person who passes ball gets an assist (Score:5, Interesting)
Like in sports, the person who passes the ball/puck/etc does not do the scoring but they do get credit for the assist. Doing so in advertising does make logical sense, and it also seems to be a more fair system. Be careful that you are not against a good idea merely because it was from Microsoft, if Google had suggested this would you have had the same reactions?
Either that or it's just another attempt at tracking the consumer's every last act, hidden under a patina of equitable distribution of ad revenue.
To continue in the theme of the above question, does it bother you that google is actually doing so? Mining email, etc?
Re: (Score:2)
In sports, we know what's going on. We know why the pass was made, we know who made it, we can generally tell how helpful a particular "assist" was. For that matter, we know that this pass directly resulted in a score being made.
Here, it's all statistics, and we don't really have a clue. And, you don't seem to be addressing the points the GP made -- this doesn't necessarily make it "more fair" at all.
Re:Wasted Effort (Score:4, Funny)
That's what marketers do. Sell the sizzle, not the steak. Some ads can even make a product's suckyness a selling point. Consider these automobile ads:
At Pontiac, we build excitement! (Brakes are bad and teh handling sucks)
Chevy, like a rock (damned thing won't start)
At Ford, Quality is Job one! (they have their work cut out for them)
-mcgrew
(speaking of ads, here's one: new journal today. It's about the eclipse last Wednesday. There are no hookers or sex in it, but it does feature a violent lunatic)
People Who Buy Products Because They Saw A Banner. (Score:2)
I don't know anyone who's ever been surfing a website, saw an ad for a gadget, or a shirt, or anything, and said "Wow, I just found out I need to buy that!"
Re:People Who Buy Products Because They Saw A Bann (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know anyone who's ever been surfing a website, saw an ad for a gadget, or a shirt, or anything, and said "Wow, I just found out I need to buy that!"
Advertising doesn't really work like that. Much of advertising is just an attempt to create familiarity. So when you DO suddenly decide you "need to buy that!" you'll at least have a passing familiarity with the product that was advertised to you.
Re: (Score:2)
Then again, I'm probably not the target audience. If I want to buy something, I don't click banner ads... I research the different products that are out there, go directly to the site that has them, and buy the best
Re: (Score:2)
You aren't alone... there are LOTS of people who would prefer a world without advertising. Sirius and XM Satellite Radio made an entire business around the idea that you would pay more to listen to music without advertising. They've got 14 or 15 Million customers paying $13 a month. And that's only a small percentage of the number of people who find value in an adless world.
Tivo and other Digital Recording devices adopt a similar concept for TV (except for during the Super Bowl, when ads ARE the main a
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If a banner ad is indeed bogging down "an entire website" I propose to you that it is your browser/computer that is being bogged down, and needs to be replaced. go ahead and click on that Dell ad.
Honestly, one add is killing the website?
One ad.. perhaps not, but half a dozen ads being delivered from a server that can barely keep up? most definitely yes. I've seen it countless times. The text I want loads, the web site graphics load, but the ads are still chugging along and will eventually stop. The worst ones are the ones that don't allow the rest of the page to load until they have finished. It must be even worse for those who have a dial up connection.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That said, these were at least somewhat relevant/contextual, and I absolutely do block the more obnoxious ones. Anything with an animation is GONE, Flash doubly so.
Yes (Score:2)
Ooo! Was that the first Orwell reference for this article? Do I win an iPod?
Flawed Logic? (Score:2)
Track across browsers? Cookie cleaning? (Score:2)
This seems to me like yet another boondoggle...
Re: (Score:2)
First of all, not that many people clear cookies. Second, the person is going to sign in eventually to buy the item--otherwise, this is all a moot point and further discussion is irrelevant.
Most people
Counter-productive (Score:4, Insightful)
1) I am already interested in that product
2) I would like to kick back a little money to the site I'm currently surfing. (I frequently have no other way of supporting them)
(OK, I also occasionally click on ads by accident -- especially those annoying ones that hover over the text and have really tiny "close" boxes)
If I'm no longer supporting the site I'm on by clicking an ad, then I lose all motivation to click on them. At that point, I start remembering how annoying ads are, and start considering an ad blocker.
Furthermore, it defeats the efforts of conscientious site hosters like Penny Arcade and Something*Positive (both webcomics, oddly) who are careful to only pick ads for products/sites they can support, and tailor the ads to be useful to their readers. As a result, I strongly suspect that their ads lead to more clicks and more purchases. A scheme like Microsoft's would add a whole lot of free-loaders to their hard work and make it no longer worth while (financially, anyway -- they still have their reputations, of course)
Re: (Score:2)
Heads up - you're actually hurting the smaller sites you frequent, if you do that.
Just clicking on the ad makes their clickthrough to buy ratio go down, and they'll get penalized if it gets too low...
Just send the site money directly - it's much better for everyone that way.
Re: (Score:2)
This would make me far less likely to click on ads ... If I'm no longer supporting the site I'm on by clicking an ad, then I lose all motivation to click on them.
Well...that's what the advertisers want. They don't want you to click just to support your favorite site, they want you to click to find out more information and buy some product. It may be bad for the website, but that's largely irrelevant--if the site isn't getting visitors who generate sales, their ad revenue plummets anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
If MR were not getting the kickback,
Counting clicks (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's occurred to me that this business about measuring an ad's value by counting clicks is BS.
The same marketers that think an ad is worthless because not enough people visited their page don't think that television or newspaper ads are worthless because not enough people snapped off the TV and called the company.
They get no feedback from TV or newspaper ads - other than a rough estimate of how many people viewed them. Yet from an Internet ad, they expect potential customers to drop what they're doing and rush to the company's website.
For instance, the ad at the top of this slashdot page right now says "A golden opportunity to make Java apps richer... click here". It includes a meaningless picture of some golden eggs. No mention of the company name, product name, or anything that might stick in our minds for later. From their perspective, either we click now or the ad was useless.
They'd never run that ad on TV or in the paper ("blah blah blah, call now."), then cancel their TV ad because nobody called. They'd include some company and product info, and hope we remember them.
So why do they expect so much more from Internet ads?
Re: (Score:2)
So why do they expect so much more from Internet ads?
Because generally speaking, people have a hard time taking concepts from one domain and applying them in another.
Of course, in this case, it's not unreasonable to at least try something new. Never before have we had an advertising medium where direct, immediate feedback in the same context was even possible. You can't talk to your TV or write on your newspaper and have anyone receive your words. You have to switch contexts--pick up your phone--in order to respond to the advertiser.
I think that what we'r
You're doin it wrong (Score:2)
This is the wrong message to take from this story. The way I read it, this is a shot across the bow for web advertising. Someone do a patent search to see if there has been anything filed for methods of distinguishing different kinds of ad clicks.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, it depends on if it's CPM or CPC. With CPM, the advertiser wants to maximize clicks (high CTR). With CPC, the advertiser only wants relevant clicks (low CTR) to minimize their CPA.
CPC = cost per click
CPM = cost per (thousand) impression
CTR = click through rate
CPA = cost per action (signup, sale, etc.)
If you don't click on ads, then what? (Score:3, Insightful)
RS
Why oh why? (Score:2)
Microsoft's strongest markets are the corporate desktop market and games markets.
Sure, there's money in advertising. But why spend to much effort in these markets while your desktop OS is in crisis?
The Microsoft ad model (Score:2, Insightful)
It sounds so Microsoft. They control the OS and the browser, so they could keep detailed history information about what you've been looking at. But they don't seem to actually be doing that. The Atlas Media Console [atlassolutions.com], which is what this is all about, is just a tool for managing multiple types of ads and reducing the data that comes back as they're viewed.
Microsoft has a point, though. "Advertising doesn't jerk, it pulls" - John Wanamaker. The ad that was clicked on may not have been the primary influenc
All the more reason... (Score:2)
And don't surf without it.
Isn't video ad already paid for? (Score:2)
Three Year Old News (Score:3, Interesting)
What an awful way to track ads. (Score:3, Insightful)
People click on ad's displayed on a site mainly because of how the ad is displayed; mainly though good ad placement, or relevent content. Just because it was displayed on a half dozen other sites the person may have visited dosen't mean they should receive some of the payment. The fact that a user DIDN'T click on the ad on the other sites should infact punish the publishers as their ad's are aparently not specific to their customers visitiing the sites.
Almost on-topic (Score:2)
Operating systems (Score:2)
I can't disagree, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Okay, I agree. It is a proven fact that the most effective advertising is based on 'reminders', and true that it is only the last 'sale tripper' ad that gets al
So.. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Make a secure operating system that works!! Think of the money you'd make!!
Microsoft (looking at Linux): "Er, uh, HUH??? How?"
Re:New Marketing Strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:New Marketing Strategy (Score:4, Funny)
Re:New Marketing Strategy (Score:5, Funny)
Dear Sir/Madam (Score:5, Funny)
The Society finds your comments repulsive. Associating Vista with snails gives said snails a very bad name.
Contrary to your misinformed opinion, some snails are capable of very high speeds, up to 12 inches per minute (15 with a good tailwind). I think we can all agree that this is far faster than Vista.
We therefore request that you withdraw your hurtful comments.
Yours in slime,
S. Cargo
Re:New Marketing Strategy (Score:4, Insightful)
Almost every computer sold comes with Windows. The deals OEMs make with Microsoft vary--Dell probably pays about $50 per copy. At millions of machines sold per month (239 million sales in 2006, estimated 264 million in 2007), it's going to add up. Then you start talking about the volume licensing that Microsoft does, and the copies that they sell off of the shelf (at much, much higher prices, but to an ever growing market of Mac users who want to virtualize) and I don't think that it's fair to call it just "leverage."
Re:New Marketing Strategy... Unfair Leverage? (Score:2)
You know? I agree with you. Just add an "r" and a space to leverage...
Lever RAGE.
Now, imagine being on a see-saw. You're the light end, and that 800-lb mugato-rilla on the other side is ms. When it jumps down onto the see-saw, you either fly off, or get slammed into any overhead objects. So, it's leverage becomes your.. lever RAGE... but, you're STILL leveraged. Just not in a way you like.
Re: (Score:2)
Then I read down the rest of the post, and I burst out laughing. Thank you! I wish I had mod points to give you.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As an example, I'd be interested to see a chart comparing revenue from sales of Windows versus sales of Microsoft Office. I'd be rather surprised if they didn't tie, or even have Office out in front.
In what, gross dollars? I'd be surprised if Office didn't surpass the OS, but I wouldn't expect it to be by a huge margin. In units sold? They sell far more copies of Windows. In retail units sold? Hard to say, but I'd gues
Re: (Score:2)
Your opinion seems just as rediculous as Microsoft's spyware-ish opinion, just in the opposite direction.
Re:New Marketing Strategy (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm just getting sick of how ubiquitous they are now, thanks to the increase in advertising I pretty much stopped watching TV and going to sporting events, since the actual events have pretty much turned into a mere advertisement for the advertisements. The event is only a way to get you to see ads, and thus has as much content as the ads themselves, none.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Preach it brother. I haven't watched TV in years. I did manage to catch a bit at my gf's parents house the other day, and it was shocking to see how much were actually ads. I completely agree with lack of content. I often wonder how many others think like me, and I have concluded, that not many, because otherwise the high cost of pitching these ad's would bankrupt the parent companies.
My friends have countered with the argument, that even though I'm avoiding these products, others are not, ergo the
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Bush administration's sign reads "YOUR PAPERSS, PLEASS!!"