Leaks Prove MediaDefender's Deception 230
Who will defend the defenders? writes "Ars Technica has posted the first installment in their analysis of the leaked MediaDefender emails and found some very interesting things. Apparently, the New York Attorney General's office is working on a big anti-piracy sting and they were working on finding viable targets. It also discusses how some of the emails show MediaDefender trying to spy on their competitors, sanitize their own Wikipedia entry, deal with the hackers targeting their systems, and to quash the MiiVi story even while they were rebuilding it as Viide. Oh yes, they definitely read "techie, geek web sites where everybody already hates us" like Slashdot, too."
Mixed feelings... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I hope people keep this incident in mind if they are considering going to work for a disreputable company, a company whose primary missions is screwing people, especially when those people that are being screwed have a Robin Hood-like reputation and are a lot smarter than you. The sad fact is that there will undoubtedly be a lot of collateral damage due to this episode. As pointed out in the Ars Technica article, a secretary who happened to be working for MediaDefender whose worst crime was answering phones and getting coffee for his or her bosses now has the social security number, home address and phone number, and salary information out there for everyone to download and look at.
I think that an even worse fallout of all this is that companies are going to be even more anal about stuff like e-mail policies and such. At my company now, they content-block us from accessing Gmail. I'll be that companies will start doing crap like blocking employees from even sending e-mail to Gmail now, the attack vector that allowed these e-mails to get leaked.
But still, even after having said all that, I love it when an evil company doing evil things gets their due like this. It's entirely possible that MediaDefender might go out of business because of this. If you're one of their customers whose detailed contract information got leaked, how likely are you to do business with them again? Although it occurred in a totally scummy way that I just can't endorse, I can't deny the end result of big media companies being a little more skittish to hiring these outfits to do their dirty work is a Good Thing.
Oh, you moralists (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mixed feelings... (Score:5, Informative)
One MD scumbag then forwards this email to his lackeys and he adds: "If you want a good laugh" to the forwarded mail.
These scumbag know that what they are doing is worthless, it doesn't stop piracy, but they both piss off users and rip off their own clients.
They also received one confidential study from a think-tank in Washington DC, the nice presentation had some extremely disgusting stats: only about 17% of the piracy comes from illegal downloads, the vast majority comes from people borrowing CDs
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What a second... you mean that those damaged CDs that don't work when you put them into a computer may actually help to curb piracy in some appreciable way? I am shocked and awed.
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What MediaDefender does is making the download of real files difficult by seeding false files and gathering data on downloaders for statistics and maybe also for prosecution.
A client wants to know if the lawsuit stopped people from downloading so they provide statistics to see by how much, how is-it 'ripping off their client'?
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At the very least it's rather unprofessional behaviour. I won't go into how unprofessional it is to have your company's emails leaked onto the internet...
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Why is a measure to curb piracy always "worthless"? Just because piracy won't stop tomorrow doesn't mean the approach is bad, or that it isn't making a difference. We still haven't eliminated crime, yet we still pour government funding into police. We can't cure a plethora of diseases, yet we still try to treat them. Why is it always so black and white?
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When that's really all it's about, it's not worthless. But these guys aren't working on the problem of curbing piracy. The only way to curb piracy is to make ethical arguments (to the pirates) about the consequences of taking without paying -- the effects of denying patronage to artists (e.g. causing people to simply give up, causing some to "sell out" and seek dubious/compromising sources of funding, etc). These guys just put up minor roadblocks but d
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We still try to treat diseases, yes, but that doesn't meant that anything someone does in the name of fighting disease is automatically admirable.
When Med
Thank God for Data Protection (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thank God for Data Protection (Score:5, Interesting)
This doesn't stop the need for laws which are much more clear and restrictive on the use and control of personally identifying information, and which have more bite when they are enforced.
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As MediaDefender is not a Health Care provider HIPAA does not apply.
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I just got a list of SSNs from a client, cleartext, over email. They had no idea the numbers were there. The IT guys swore up and down that the system didn't contain SSNs, but there they were. No malice, just stupidity.
It strikes me as vastly more useful to have an identity system that is more resistant to attack than putting a lot of faith in the good sense and good intentions of IT admins, DBAs, clerks and interns. The whole "one secret, many points of
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Re:Mixed feelings... (Score:5, Informative)
Roofers on the Death Star (Score:2)
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when i lived in seattle, i worked for a startup company in the same building as 180 solutions. our offices were right across the hall from theirs. at the time i had no idea what they did, and i would run into their people in the hall from time to time, usually it was their receptionist. she was really cute and very outgoing, far too nice to be working for such a despicable company. when i learned what they did and saw the coll
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To be blunt, my first thought was "work for them, hang with them". But where does that lead?
Yes, it would be pretty neat to bleed those companies dry by by "discouraging" people from working for
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Following orders to gas somebody is one thing. Following orders to make coffee and answer phones is another. One involves the murder of ten million jews. The other involves a fresh pot of joe.
If you have any sense of perspective whatsoever you'd see that there's a pretty important difference.
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Interesting. Why did your company never view this 'vector' as a problem for sites such as Hotmail or Yahoo! Mail, which both launched as far back as 1996? The tools that GMail offers are not that much different, I'm sure the mass forwarding of mails to a web mailbox was possible
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AC's right. They block all of the major web e-mail providers.
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If you dish it out... (Score:2, Interesting)
Again I agree with the post above I feel sorry for some of the employees caught in the middle, but have little sympathy for the company.
When you actively seek to disrupt somebody else's activities (legal or not), especially with questionable tactics it won't make you popular and there is going to be backlash.
Law enforcement activities should be left to law enforcement officers that have been empowered by democratically elected
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Oh, I understand why the stuff was in a spreadsheet at all instead of an appropriate place like a secured database -- that's just because people are stupid about that sort of thing in the first place, and it's just too easy to throw the
Re:Mixed feelings... (Score:5, Insightful)
and at the bottom line you'll only find the bottom feeders.
Re:Mixed feelings... (Score:4, Insightful)
Spot on. Granted, businesses are there to make money, but unless they employ only robots, there is a human factor there as well. Oversimplifying this to the point that "money trumps everything else" is exactly how these companies get into such shitloads of trouble.
Re:Mixed feelings... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, and more: Businesses are not there just to make money, I'm getting tired of this old trope. It's like saying Humans are there to make more Humans.
Enterprise means getting things done, making stuff, acheiving goals. Businesses are there to do things and compensate their investors and staff for their efforts or risk-taking. People start a business (or should) because they want to provide, create, or change something. Let them be judged by what they do and how they do it, not how much they've managed to skim off the top.
Let's not reduce capitalism to The Trough, it's nihilistic and will lead people further into market fundamentalism.
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Second, sometimes mailing policies in some companies are so off whack that you need GMail or similar services to get anything done. I do have a mail account strictly for business purposes on GMail, that I used to receive and send (encrypted) messages while working for a company that d
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Maybe they have a bad security guy. Maybe they have users who think they're smarter than the security guys or the server guys or thought "well obviou
A lesson from this episode (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft's recent downplaying of the unexplained Windows Updates is another case in point. Where is Mark Russinovich's article that does a 'diff' of the replaced files, and explaining the 'new behaviour' in detail - like he did in the Sony rootkit case?
It is a bit sad that many of these incidents do not figure in the mainstream media - which seems to be in the powerful grips of these Corporate thugs.
Re:A lesson from this episode (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A lesson from this episode (Score:5, Insightful)
I did address this issue in my original post. I speculated that this happens becasue Mainstream Media is simply reluctant to publish these issues, which have a vital bearing on true competition in the IT industry. The BBC has an article on the EU anti-trust ruling; but none at all on the Media Defender clowns circus. If it did, there would be much larger pressure on them, than discussions at Slashdot, Digg, Flexbeta ArsTechnica and so on.
In fact an email at MD discusses precisely this apathy in the mainstream media; and why they should relaunch the whole thing under a different name. Microsoft has simply relaunched the same core Office applications and the Windows operating systems in different names at different points in time. The intention is clear: To subvert proper competitive development, impede progress, ruthlessly maintain lock-in; etc. The media must resist such intereferences... otherwise such secondary media sites will make take away their business in tech reporting at least.
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Between the DRM Rootkit, DRM, extra copy protection on Sony Pictures DVD's, and now a rootkit on a Thumb Drive, the movement to Don't buy SONY is growing. It shows in their financials.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cf?s=SNE&annual [yahoo.com]
Note Net income 2005 ending March 31 was 1,523,693 in 2006- 1,050,736, and in 2007- 1,073,788. This is a downturn of almost a full third in one year.
For the most part they are moving away from being a manufacture to an investment firm much like the Sears Roebuck c
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Ha! I see what you did there... (Russinovich sold to MS a year ago) but seriously, I'd like to see Steve Gibson's[grc.com] take on the Stealth WUA thing. He's got just enough of a tinfoil hat to uncover the juicy details...
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Totally Unprofessional (Score:5, Insightful)
Now don't get me wrong. I'm neither squeamish, nor easily offended. But in professional, corporate email communications such a tone has about as much justification as surfing porn at work.
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Re:Totally Unprofessional (Score:4, Informative)
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Re:Totally Unprofessional (Score:5, Interesting)
And to that point - it is their JOB to surf porn at work, to seek out child porn and notify the DoJ and the New York Attorney General's office of the material so that the AG could pursue the offender as part of their own investigation.
Yet, I do agree that the use of profanity does show a lack of professionalism. Much like the theory that you can tell a lot about a man by the way he treats his waitress. These emails reveal that they have an air of arrogant superiority about themselves, that they operate above the law, and that they are immune from "teh bad d00dz". They are convinced of their moral authority and moral superiority.
To wit:
I have a fair level of certainty that they got themselves infected with spyware, adware, trojans. They surf sites in the dark corners of the 'intertoob' seeking out nefarious content, evil trackers and child predators. In going there, they are in the stomping grounds of the best of the worst when it comes to infecting computers using the most current 0day exploits.
(Side note -- Stick with me here)
I personally do not run anti-virus. I deal with malicious content all the time. I know what is running on my machine at all times. If I were to run an AntiVirus, it would delete half the files on my hard drive that was gathered as evidence in investigations, or malicious tool kits used to exploit systems that I use in teaching classes.
Whenever I venture to evil sites, I start up a virtual machine, I have two - they are called "Hindenburg" and "Titanic" that are not current on their patches and run no anti-virus. I purposely seek out infections and malware on these machines so I can analyze the machines postmortem. I have a tremendous amount of respect and even admiration for my opponents. They are VERY good at their game. As such, I am careful not to let my guard down.
(My point)
I'll bet that what they've done is get a real machine infected, one that was not sandboxed, connected to the internal domain, and the user was running with not just local admin privileges, but with full domain admin privileges. OOPS! This infected machine reported back to the hackers, who then connected back in to their hacked box and set up user accounts on the network and also rooted the boxes.
At this point, no amount of changing passwords or firewalls or IDS will get the intruders out. They need to rebuild every box on their network, from scratch. They need to stop thinking of themselves as an "academic institution" that needs full access to the internet (no outbound restrictions on the firewall) and where proper security practices "don't apply to them".
Proper security and safety protocols were not followed. The arrogant attitude of "we're security folks, policies don't apply to us" is what let this happen.
Further your affiant sayeth not,
Joel Helgeson
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Actually (Score:2)
It's true that simple mistakes lead to major errors, you only have to look at the Half-Life 2 source code leak where a member of staff was e-mailed a key logger trojan giving the attacker all the info they needed to get the code out of there.
Re:Actually (Score:5, Interesting)
Heh, they all but went out of their way to provide access to the hackers. The top brass had his emails being forwarded to his Gmail account, bypassing any and all security they had set up on the corporate network.
Then the hackers got the usernames and passwords and gained internal access to the network, establishing admin access on the domain. They apparently set up packet captures, or if MediaDefender were the ones capturing packets, they found them and this is where they captured the VoIP calls.
"Keyloggers, we don't need no stinking keyloggers!"
The worst infections to get rid of are those who have admin access to the network and who maintain their access using normal everyday network admin utilities (From my experience, the French are especially good at this). I have worked with sites that have been hacked where the intruders have obtained an administrator level password, then gone in and set up RPC over HTTPS on the domain servers, then the hackers have set up their own 2003 server, added it to the domain, promoted it to domain controller and had the hacked company's Domain Controller perform an outbound sync (using the RPC over HTTPS) to the hackers 2003 server. Any password changes the users make on the home network will be replicated to their off site "guest host" malicious server.
The hackers later added Distributed File Shares or DFS, and used it to replicate file shares (i.e. user folders) information to their hacked domain controller. The hackers basically set themselves up as a run-of-the-mill remote office that synchronizes over a low-speed wan link.
This company was totally Pwn3d... I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happened here with the amount of information they collected.
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So yes, sometimes surfing for granny porn at work has its place. But take my advice, do it before lunch. First, you will definitly save a lot of your lunch money, and it keeps you from making your work space a messy place.
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there are more leaks! (Score:5, Informative)
MediaDefender Phone Call and Gnutella Tracking Database Leaked [torrentfreak.com]
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Beautiful. Just Beautiful (Score:2)
For those that don't want to read through it, it's classic PHB scumbag B.S. They're running exchange on one side, so there's going to be trouble finding a compromise unless the disks are taken out of production.
The buzzword B.S. level is so high I think I threw-up in my mouth a little.
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The real news: People use Gnutella.
That is why you should always check "versiontracker.com", "download.com" top 10 for real life figures. They show the general population.
Limewire is a Gnutella client and always shows up.
I don't buy those "I hate MS Office" messages too, it always shows up on Amazon top selling software even Mac version.
The weakest link (Score:4, Interesting)
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My favorite quote from the article/emails:
(while discussing communications between the Miivi site and its "customers")
"Make sure MediaDefender can not be seen in any of the hidden email data crap that smart people can look in."
Journamalism 101 (Score:5, Interesting)
I know it's pointless to ask things like this of the /. "editors", but the summary of this story is almost completely useless to anyone who is coming to the story cold (like me).
Would it have killed someone to have rewritten the submission so that it explained:
?
I can go Google all that stuff and find out for myself, but why would I bother, if it's not clear to me why the story is important in the first place?
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Re:Journamalism 101 (Score:5, Informative)
A group called "MediaDefender-Defender" got someone's password and spilled thousands of emails from within MediaDefender. Apparently some idiot forwarded all his corporate mail to Gmail, and used an easy password.
"MiiVi" was an attempt by MediaDefender to create a fake file-sharing site to entrap people. About two people fell for it, then they were exposed by Torrentfreak.
You should care because this company lied about its involvement with an attempt to "entrap" (legally, it's not entrapment, but it's still pretty morally grey). You might also care because it's another attempt by the RIAA and MPAA to screw over file-sharers. Or maybe you don't care about it. There's no assurance that you'll find everything on Slashdot interesting.
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In that little section you would have found two links to articles that are - surprise - related to this story.
Following those links would have taken you to the whole backstory story and you could have read that right here on Slashdot without having to do any Google searches.
Isn't technology fantastic
?
Related stories 101 (Score:4, Informative)
I know it's pointless to ask things like this of the /. "editors", but the summary of this story is almost completely useless to anyone who is coming to the story cold (like me).
[+] Your Rights Online: MediaDefender Denies Entrapment Accusations 104 comments
Ortega-Starfire writes "We've previously discussed the subject of MediaDefender setting up a site to catch movie pirates. Ars Technica covers the response from MediaDefender, which basically states the entire thing was a mistake and was only an internal site they forgot to password protect, and that they were not using this with the MPAA. The article asks: 'If this is true, why did MediaDefender immediately remove all contact information from the whois registry for the domain? Saaf said that after everything hit the fan, the company decided to take everything on the site down because it was afraid of a hacker attack or "people sending us spam." Yes, spam. The MPAA's Elizabeth Kaltman also chimed in to say that they had no involvement with MiiVi: "The MediaDefender story is false. We have no relationship with that company at all," she told Ars.'"
[-] IT: Internal Emails of An RIAA Attack Dog Leaked 412 comments
qubezz writes "The company MediaDefender works with the RIAA and MPAA against piracy, setting up fake torrents and trackers and disrupting p2p traffic. Previously, the TorrentFreak site accused them of setting up a fake internet video download site designed to catch and bust users. MediaDefender denied the entrapment charges. Now 700MB of MediaDefender's internal emails from the last 6 months have been leaked onto BitTorrent trackers. The emails detail their entire plan, including how they intended to distance themselves from the fake company they set up and future strategies. Other pieces of company information were included in the emails such as logins and passwords, wage negotiations, and numerous other aspect of their internal business."
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I know it's pointless to ask things like this of the /. "editors", but the summary of this story is almost completely useless to anyone who is coming to the story cold (like me).
Would it have killed someone to have rewritten the submission so that it explained:
?
I can go Google all that stuff and find out for myself, but why would I bother, if it's not clear to me why the story is important in the first place?
Slashdot is linking stories and inviting discussion on those stories.
You could click these showing up right under the "scoop":
Your Rights Online: MediaDefender Denies Entrapment Accusations 104 comments
[+] IT: Internal Emails of An RIAA Attack Dog Leaked 413 comments
So;
Who MediaDefender is
^^RIAA Attack Dog
What the "leaked MediaDefender emails" are
^^Internal Emails of them
What the "MiiVi story" is
^^^ Your Rights Online: MediaDefender Denies Entrapment Accusation
Why I should care
^^^Besides obvious ethical re
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You mean MediaDefender comes along and flags me as a suspect for downloading Linux? Fuck. Or do you mean downloading something illegal?
If you install IP filters to your Torrent client and enable them, let your client logon to DHT while just sharing GNU/Linux, you will notice some very shadowy companies/IP Blocks trying to sneak your shares. Media Defender is just ONE of those companies.
I am downloading/sharing only legal and paid content and you should see the IP Filter circus I am looking at.
nice one. (Score:2)
its always cute when you see a big firm like that caught with its breeches down, but when its the sneaky bugger who where behind MiiVii on the receiving end its extra juicy.
tell you one thing, I wish we could get a current tap on their email to see what they are saying about this one!
on a more serious note, this came out because one single employee forward all his email to a gmail ac
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One of the few occasions when I'd really advocate spyware on a few selected computers...
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Good Time . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
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Re:Good Time . . . (Score:5, Informative)
Morally, these scumbags gave up any claim to anything a long time ago. Morally, they all deserve to be soundly beaten and left for dead on some island somewhere so they can learn to play nice with each other or starve. Because that's sadly illegal, pointing and laughing at their misfortune is a close second.
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I never said anything about that doctrine, of which I am familiar. That involves illegal government action that yields criminal evidence. This involves non-government action that is itself criminal. This is the same comparison we have with apples and oranges: none. The person reporting the information is the criminal actor, in my assertion.
"Morally..."
Morally, we all deserve to be soundly beaten. I did not raise the moral character of the email account holder,
When.... (Score:3, Interesting)
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I suspect I agree with everything the AC parent writes (other than the irritating tendency to care only about Americans, as distinct from the people who live in the US, or people generally for that matter). I certainly agree that the actions of Big Media appear remarkably similar to anti-competitive behaviour prohibited by law. But the answer to this is to enforce the law, not to start freeloading and promote vigilante justice.
For what it's worth, I do think there is a point where civil disobedience becom
Online mailbox access.. (Score:5, Informative)
In case someone wants to have a look, Here is a on-line mailbox with all the leaked emails [hopto.org]
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Sanitized wikipedia entries (Score:3, Interesting)
So the guys in PR are the only ones in the company posting over the long term. Anyone else doesn't work for the company, or won't be working there long (yerfired!).
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MiiVi would be such a cool name... (Score:3, Funny)
Moral of story = good to be old fogy! (Score:2)
viide.com (Score:5, Funny)
It's like with the mousetraps (Score:3, Interesting)
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So how long did it take you to null-route the 2 DNS addresses? It took me less than 5 minutes.
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Don't blame them just because you don't like one of their customers. Do you think every DNS registrar reviews every registration (in their case, an online registration) to make sure it passes some kind of Slashdot cleanliness test?
BTW, DirectNIC is an excellent registrar with good customer support. Sure they cost a bit more than GoDaddy, but I've found they're worth the $15/year I pay.
Mediadefender Slashdot trolls. (Score:4, Insightful)
Duh, most of us that are here too much can pick out those shills. They are very obvious to anyone paying attention. I believe there is a website out there that tracks them and even links accounts on different sites to specific people at Idiot-defender.
What they do is ineffective except for catching the 13 year old girls that dont know anything. they dont even put a mild dent in the real sharing groups. One of the guys at work was running around with a new DL DVD he got in the mail from a group member full of zero day songs and even stuff that has not been released yet all at incredibly high bitrate. He also had a copy of the Simpsons movie in 1080i which was mind blowing, it had to be a digital conversion from a not released yet BluRay master or someone broke the digital cinema format to convert it in a theater projection booth with a laptop.
No attempt to get comments from the AG's office? (Score:5, Interesting)
A quick search this am for "new york attorney general mediadefender" turned up no mainstream press reports about this story.
According the ars piece, by the way, the AG's office appeared to be interested in porn downloads, not, as the editors here put it, "working on a big anti-piracy sting and they were working on finding viable targets." From TFA, "Although the full scope of the project cannot be extrapolated from the e-mails, the information available indicates that MediaDefender intends to provide the Attorney General's office with information about users accessing pornographic content. Other kinds of information could be involved as well." (That last sentence is so vague and general that it could refer to almost any information of any kind anywhere on the planet.)
Don't the editors at least read the stories themselves before they post them to Slashdot?
None of these comments is a defense of either MediaDefender or the NYAG. I'm more concerned about the shoddy reporting that passes for journalism on geek news sites like this one and arstechnica. Particularly the latter, since the articles I've read there in the past gave off the semblance of decent journalism.
Re:No attempt to get comments from the AG's office (Score:5, Informative)
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Slashdot is not claiming to be a media site, it is a portal, it links to sites. If IT media is sold out, Slashdot can't setup IT sites just to link.
Check
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I'm not asking that Slashdot become a "media site." All I'm asking is that they check to see that the summaries they post are, in fact, consistent with the article that is cited. In this case, we were told the AG's involvement had to do with piracy while the article said it had to do with pornography. A day on Slashdot contains perhaps one or two dozen articl
Obligatory... (Score:2)
You must be new here.
ViiDi? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:so (Score:5, Informative)
Even if we all want to cheer MD-D, it remains that what they did was very likely a violation of a number of user policy agreements (Gmail, their ISP, etc.) and possibly illegal. Let's not start adorning them with medals yet.
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The provenance of them is not verifiable, so their value as evidence is questionable, but if it came to a court case the originals could be subpoenaed in discovery. Whether they'd be available depends on their email retention plan, existence of backups, etc. but some of it would be, from them or gmail.
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Re:Sanitizing Wikipedia is bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
"When Douglas pointed out that information about MiiVi had been added to the MediaDefender Wikipedia page, Saaf decided that he wanted it taken down. "Can you please do what you can to eliminate the entry? Let me know if you have any success," Saaf wrote. "I will attempt to get all references to miivi removed from wiki," developer Ben Ebert replied. "We'll see if I can get rid of it.""
They wanted to remove all links between themselves and Miivi. When there definately was a link. They knew it was true, they just didn't want anyone else to know about it.
That's not the intended use of the tool that is Wikipedia.
Re:Sanitizing Wikipedia is bad? (Score:5, Informative)
Wikipedia is clear that it is AGAINST policy to self-edit. Read the Code of Conduct.
Just because they don't have a very effective police force preventing rude, deceptive bullcrap does mpt mean it is acceptable behavior.
And YES, changing what OTHER people wrote about you without admitting who you are IS an indication of guilt. When I defend myself from something I do NOT do it anonymously.
Harvey Mudd (Score:2)