Germany's New Internet License Fee 371
PapayaSF writes "Beginning January 1st, Germany will require payment of a license fee of 5.52 euros a month on computers and mobile phones that can access TV and radio programs over the Internet. Like the current TV and radio license fees, the money will support national and local public TV and radio stations. German companies with many computers are predictably upset." I'm not sure if this is the same story we discussed in 2004. Did this original fee go through, and this is another fee on top of the original?
Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Informative)
tuner, because you could theoretically solder it back in..
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Interesting)
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I recall a couple of years ago the BBC said something along the lines of "if you stream TV clips then you need a TV license". I don't think there was talk of legislating it, however.
Note that the UK does have exceptions for TVs owned by businesses and used exclusively for prerecorded video. There are various forms to fill in, and it's checked fairly regularly. Something similar should apply to computers, although I'm not sure you can "neuter" a computer in the same way as a TV (unplugging the aerial, us
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Informative)
Only if it's been broadcasted to the UK at the same (or similar) time. I.E. Downloading an specific episode of "the Simpsons" that's being broadcast on C4 at 6PM, or Sky One at 7PM, is only OK outside of that time.
Note that the UK does have exceptions for TVs owned by businesses and used exclusively for prerecorded video.
No, the UK has exception for any TV's that aren't used to receive broadcast video. The wireless telegraphy act and it's ammendemnts specificaly state it's the USE of euipment to RECEIVE BROADCASTS that needs licensing.
There are various forms to fill in, and it's checked fairly regularly.
The TV License people have no legal right to "check" you. They can gather any evidence that they legally can (look through your window, scan for the IF, etc), and present it to court. To enter your property they need a search warrant.
Something similar should apply to computers, although I'm not sure you can "neuter" a computer in the same way as a TV (unplugging the aerial, usually. Ripping out the tuner is a bit drastic).
Yes, if you have a TV that's not tuned in to the local transmitter and not plugged in, that would be enough to satisfy any court. Of course as long as you don't watch the TV, and don't let the TVL people in, there's little they can do to proove you are or arent watching.
With TV over IP, I suppose they could look at getting the ISP to provide logs, however that would probably break the data protection act. Their only real evidence would come through watching your through a window.
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Are you referring to the myth that TV detector vans could pick up signals from working TVs? They can't; that was a lie to try to scare people into complying. The antennae on the vans were purely for show.
Of course, these days when you buy a TV you have to give your name and address (no idea what happens if you refuse), so they automatically know who owns a TV and don't need any of that silliness.
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:4, Funny)
I have no idea if they actually do detect it, but it isn't very difficult to pick up a signal from a CRT to detect the horizontal/vertical scan and the picture signal; you can correlate that with what is currently being broadcast to be able to show that someone is watching broadcast TV. Doesn't work if you're watching something you recorded off-the-air, though.
I remember an article a year or two ago about being able to reconstruct a TV image simply from the incidental light being reflected off the walls, similar technique. I can't locate the article, though.
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Of course, these days when you buy a TV you have to give your name and address (no idea what happens if you refuse), so they automatically know who owns a TV and don't need any of that silliness.
They still use the vans, or at least did 5 years ago when I didn't own a TV, and had told them so half a dozen times already (they send out demands for payment every month to any address that is not already paying) before giving up and throwing any mail from TV Licensing straight in the bin. I arrived home once
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Actually they can. But they need to look at what is in the image in order to determine whether it is a TV receiver or merely a (fee free) TV monitor. And for that they need a court order which they will usually not get....
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, there's even ITU standard for it, but I may be wrong. There's definetely a GOST (State Standard) for it in Russia (I'm Russian).
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:4, Informative)
By law, when you buy a TV or any equipment that can receive broadcast TV, the shop has to inform the TVLA of your name and address. So, by subtracting a list of people who bought a licence from the list of people who own a TV, they can see who has a TV but no licence. They do try to hassle you, but you just need to be firm with them. Tell them "no" once, and then ignore them.
What it boils down to is that they will only take you to court if they think they can win, and unless they have proof you are watching broadcast TV they won't. Presumably, the same would apply to internet licencing. Unless they can prove you are watching streaming media...
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You need a licence if you have any kit that is *capable* of receiving a TV broadcast signal, regardless of whether you use it or not. There have been quirky cases - for example: someone with a black and white TV needed a colour licence because they had a VHS recorder with a colour tuner even though they could only watch in monochrome.
Having the TV stored in the attic with the mains plug removed does seem to appease them though.
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:4, Informative)
This is a myth that TVL allow to propergate. They used to have an entry on their website saying that's you don't need to to watch offair DVDs/VHS.
I suugest you read the relevent laws, but you can also look at the mostly-accurate guardian article here [guardian.co.uk]
You need a licence irrespective if you want to watch live television. If you have equipment capable of receiving TV signals and its tuned in you will are required to pay. If you only watch DVDs at home then you are not required to pay. However TV Licensing (TVL) will expect your television not to display BBC1 or any other channels when they come round and turn it on and may question why you have an aerial on the roof. "If you watch live TV on any device, you need to be covered by a valid licence," it says.
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"I've just had an aggressive demand from our 'friends' the TVL for a new
laptop I've just purchased with Windows Media Centre and a t.v. card.
However the t.v. reception and display is so damned awful that I am
seriously thinking of getting the t.v. card removed. This test was at a
location that is IS licensed for t.v. reception, but anyway I'm damned
if I'm going to pay for a second license just so that I can use the
laptop elsewhere - eve
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Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Informative)
That of course solves the problem of licensing PC and mobile phones as well.
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course by now the entire thing has devolved into a question of semantics as the GEZ can more or less get money out of everyone so the TV fee is more or less a tax.
Oh, and note that while the private broadcasters are usually financed solely through advertisement (pay-per-view and subscription channels are uncommon in Germany) that doesn't mean that the public broadcasters can't show ads in addition to being financed through the GEZ. They are restricted to not showing any ads before 20:00, though, IIRC. But still one onders how much they are independent from their sponsors anymore...
The real hoot, of course, is that while we have to pay a broadcasting fee for our internet access there is actually little broadcasting done by the public broadcasters on the 'net. The only thing that would qualify as broadcasting would be live streams; websites and MP3s are not broadcasting. Live streams, however, are rarely available and when they are they tend to perform poorly as the public broadcasters' servers and pipes can't handle many connections. Thus the internet GEZ fee is mainly for something that doesn't exist.
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Because the administration of such a system is taking a lot of money it was decided to have the broadcasters paid from general taxation.
This has been a great success in lowering the cost for the government and less trouble for the TV owners.
The fact that now people without a TV or radio are paying is true but hardly relevant as they are so few of them.
And of course taxation pays other ve
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officer: you didn't pay your GEZ fee
me: but I don't even own a TV
officer: but you could go out and buy one
me: WTF?
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Their logic says the networked
Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:5, Funny)
Officer: I'm here to collect the public TV tax.
Joe: I've already paid for my TV and personal computer.
Officer: But you haven't paid for your other computers.
Joe: I only own one computer!
Officer: From my inspection I have noted that you own 5 pocket calculators, a microwave, a CD player, and a car--all of which are operated by computers.
Joe: But you can't connect them to the Internet. And even if you could they still don't have monitors to view TV shows on!
Officer: But theoretically they could, right? I mean if you flip your calculator upside down I can spell 'boobies.'
Joe: No!
Officer: C'mon! Don't be so stubborn. C'mon!
Joe: Well Ok, I'll sell the car so I can pay the fees for my calculators.
Officer: And by the way, why do you own so many calculators?
Joe:: So I can write "I see boobies I see boobies."
Officer: But you only need 4 for that message.
Joe: I use that one to pay the taxes for the other four.
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Some providers and software producers sell anti-fee-products to block the websites of the national broadcasting network - but this is just bullshit. You have to pay when you own an computer who is capable to go online. No filter can prevent this.
I would owe somethine like $200 / month (Score:5, Insightful)
We are asymptotely approaching a time when everything is connected to the Internet. If my toaster is connected to the Internet and has audio capabilites (and therefore theoretically capable of receiving and playing audio streams), would I have to pay the license? What about my fridge (many people already have Internet connected fridges with displays)? My washing machine? My iPod?
This legislation is astonishing. People will stop buying gadgets in Germany if every gadget has a state imposed monthly tarrif associated with it. It makes much more sense to simply impose a household tarrif (or even an individual yearly tax).
This smells like an underhanded way to get the masses to come out in favor of DRM in Germany to me. DRM presents a solution to the gadget tax!!! Hurray for DRM!!!
Politicians and Corporate interests are evil when combined.
Re:I would owe somethine like $200 / month (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Still payable if TV/Radio streams firewalled? (Score:4, Interesting)
Note that after the Third Reich they were designed this way to prevent governmental control. That's also why there are two independent ones. This is a Good Thing.
This is outrageous (Score:4, Interesting)
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Something like that would probably limit the size and number of botnets sending spam.
pity.
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@Parent: I'm an American. I'm not stupid; my country's been hijacked and I am the victim. My country's president has needlessly invaded another country, lowered my taxes, and increased the country's expenses drastically (among other things) - all against my will.
BTW - This tax is within Germany, not the EU. They are only victims to what their own government is taxing them for.
This seems to me to very nearly mirror Canada's blank CD tax to re
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I think the last time I saw a calculation of how much of your money goes into taxes in Germany it was something like 55%. That was back when the VAT was at 15%, however. It is currently being raised from 16% to 20%.
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It's like cable (Score:4, Interesting)
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I am actually starting to record Foxtel shows now and while this is ok for now I am seriously considering canceling my subscription and I
Corporations (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Corporations (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Corporations (Score:5, Informative)
You need one radio license (if you have at least one radio) and one TV license (if you have at least one TV) per household. So if you own a TV and a radio in Germany, you are already obliged to pay ~17 Euro/month in license fees. Nothing changes if you have 3 radios and 5 TVs, It does not matter if you have additional mobile radios (eg in your car). And it also does not matter if you have three computers. Once you have a license, you don't pay extra for additional hardware. The only thing that changes next year is that an internet PC counts as radio. So if you have no radio, but an internet PC, you have to start paying. At least in private households that surely affects few people, but it is nethertheless stupid.
Housenholds vs. Persons (Score:3, Informative)
Then, the radios that are being taken to work should be licensed extra. Nowadays, when almost every modern mobile phone has an ability to receive TV programs, those should be licensed extra. Also the car radios would incur additional license fees this way or an
German not the only ones (Score:5, Interesting)
Will the next big thing be an ISP which doesn't give access to the website's of the nations public TV and radio stations' websites?
Or will even The Pirate Bay and Google Video be recognized as sites where you can access TV and radio programs, thus making any such attempts from the ISPs worthless?
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Here it wouldn't matter if you never access the material which you pay for, you still have to pay for it (so long as it's like TV)...
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A similar law was passed in Denmark. I think it will go into effect at new year.
I think it would be a great idea. But I'm afraid it is not going to happen.
So now t
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A couple of years ago, the separate license free for radio and TV (which we had for many years and was similar to that in the UK, Germany, Denmark etc) was abandoned.
Now, the public radio and TV are paid from general tax income. So in fact, everyone is paying, even those who do not have a radio or TV or another method of receiving the public programmes.
The number of people without radio or TV had become so low that this separately collected fee was no l
It's the same fee.. (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe a bit more background info from Germany here: this fee is used to support the state-owned radio and TV stations, the privately owned stations don't see a cent. This is supposedly to guarantee the higher-quality broadcasts from the state stations as opposed to the low-quality, market-driven programs from the private stations.. but as somebody who doesn't watch state TV as a principle, I won't pay this s**t.
Some more facts (Score:2)
The fee is collected by the GEZ, which is famous to sneak into peoples privacy who do not pay the fees.
The public broadcasting network in Germany is very big: there are more than a dozen different regional and national TV stations, and about 50 radio programmes. The "state TV" is more critical to the administration than all of the private networks.
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Originally the amount set was the same as for the TV license, then it was reduced to the same amount as a radio license (17 reduced to 6 I think). There were some of good reasons for this:
Unfortunately, you miss the point. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you already own a registered radio or TV, you are not going to pay additional fees anyway. Only those who are not registered yet will be affected if they own an Internet capable computer. Firewalls, filtering ISPs etc. are very unlikely to help - the fee collecting agency GEZ has been (in)famous for interpreting such obstacles their way consistently in the past (1), and has been successfully suing unregistered TV watchers. This is all regulated by a public broadcasting law for which the Prime Ministers of the German states are responsible. Resistance is futile. :-(
In the old days when the public TV and radio stations offered more sophisticated broadcasts it was OK to pay these fees IMHO. But nowadays these public stations suffer from decreasing watcher and listener numbers, and try to resemble the private TV and radio stations more and more. There's less and less differentiators that warrant such fees - except maybe the news on ARD and ZDF and the folk music broadcasts if you like them. The radio stations play the same pop and chart crap as everybody else – so-called "Dudelfunk" (roughly translated "tootle radio"). In the Munich/Augsburg area, there is a single radio station that has all the good rock music – but outside of Augsburg you can receive them only via the Astra Satellite, i.e. not when travelling by car (no Sirius offering here, folks). I have stopped listening to the radio (except for the news at times) long ago. >8-(
(1) They aren't dumb. It's too easy to use a web proxy outside of the ISP's realm in order to bypass any firewall rules. Except if ISPs start filtering the actual content but this requires much CPU and is senseless once you start using SSL.
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To do it with a tax on devices means you're going to (1) distort the market for those devices (2) unfairly charge people who don't watch or listen to the stations (3) fail to charge people who find ways to get around it (4) intrude into people's privacy to know what dev
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Come on now! I will easily agree that the quality has deteriorated over the years, largely under pressure by the private stations to compete for the lowest common denominator ("Unterschichtsfernsehen"). But if you don't think RTL/SAT1/etc. are much worse you haven't watched them in a while.
Re:It's the same fee.. (Score:5, Interesting)
So I can receive German TV and can compare it with our Dutch programmes. What I think is:
- the public TV programmes are of good quality. Maybe not appealing to all viewers, but it is clear that care has been put in making them.
- some commercial TV programmes like RTL are not that bad, but the amount of commercials (and especially the length of commercial blocks) is awful.
- other commercial TV programmes (on a lower budget) are just the re-runs of cheap crap that we have here as well.
It is apparent, also when viewing Dutch public TV or the BBC, that public TV has a place. And also that it does not appeal to everyone.
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I have been living in Germany for 15 years now (american). The biggest gripe I have with the fee, as it stands now, is that I don't have an option. If I own a TV, or radio, I must pay, whether I use their service, or not. On top of this, the cost is exhorbitantly high when compared to the cost of cable television--which is another thing that I basically must pay for--and cable service (Premiere).
There is exactly one(!) show that I watch on the government channels, and that show is once a week, for 1/2 ho
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a: Both main parties supported this monstrosity.
b: This is a tax on businesses rather than people. Businesses (especially small businesses) do not have the vote.
c: This monstrosity did not make the radar in the elections.
When Margaret Thatcher introduced the Poll Tax in the UK 17-odd years ago, it was between elections and the other two points were not met (+ the sums involved were far far larger). Her party decided she was an electoral liability and dumped her. Of course for at least 15 years aft
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Neither thought they could get votes by opposing it, ie, everyone supports it.
This is a tax on businesses rather than people. Businesses (especially small businesses) do not have the vote.
Neither do carrots. Nor should they.
This monstrosity did not make the radar in the elections.
Because only fringe whackos oppose it.
Re:It's the same fee.. (Score:5, Insightful)
- They want money, but they still show (on the radio, play) ads. One or the other. If I'm going to pay a fee, I don't want ads. It's the ads that end up dragging state TV/radio down toward the lowest common denominator that the private broadcasters serve - they're competing for the same ad money.
- Their enforcement methods stink. Sending threat letters warning of "serious consequences", visiting people at home and pretending they have some right to come in and look for TVs (they don't), ringing people's door intercoms and pretending to be the postman/mailman so that people let them in. If you're trying to be the "civilised" state broadcaster, act like it.
- The lack of relation between the price and the quality. For a radio and TV, the GEZ wants EUR204.36 (GBP136.91, USD257.81). A colour TV license in the UK costs GBP131.50 (EUR196.28, USD247.62. There are no additional charges for radio). For my GEZ money, I get a few poor TV channels (with ads), a few (mostly poor) radio channels (with ads) and little original programme-making of any consequence. Were I still in England, I'd be getting from the BBC (at the last count) eight TV channels, eleven national radio channels and numerous local radio channels along with programme-making of international repute. (When was the last time you saw something from the BBC on TV, wherever you are? And when did you last see something from German TV?) The GEZ wants more money than the BBC, but provides significantly less service.
- This latest silliness. If you want money from people who use PCs to watch your service, issue each person who pays the GEZ with a subscription number, have them type it in before providing access.
As it stands, I'll keep ignoring the German state TV/Radio offerings and listening to the BBC services online and via longwave radio. If the BBC offers me an option to subscribe to receive a fuller range of their services via internet, I'll be happy to do so. (In case anyone gets the wrong impression, there are lots of things I like about Germany - their state TV and Radio just happen to be one of those that I very much dislike.)
Ads are so it isn't thrice the fee (Score:2)
The reasoning is that without the ads, the fee would probably be €600/yr instead of €200/yr. If cable television in mainland Europe is anything like cable television in the United States, compare the price per channel of basic cable television to the price of the premium channels.
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So how do the BBC charge a lower fee, provide more channels of higher quality, run Europe's most popular content-based website and make more original programming, whilst not having advertising on any of their (license-fee-supported) channels?
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Limited regional programming (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's the same fee.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, let's count the German channels (not including regional services):
- Das Erste ("First")*
- ZDF ("Second")*
- ARTE (German/French cooperation)
- 3sat (German/Austrian/Swiss cooperation)
- Phoenix (Parliament/Politics)
- KI.KA (Children's Channel)
- EinsPlus
- EinsExtra
- EinsFestival
- ZDFdokukanal
- ZDFinfokanal
- ZDFtheaterkanal
If I remember correctly, twelve is more than eight. In addition, there are more regional channels ("Third programmes", except BR-alpha) than in the UK (and they are "full" programms, not just time slices):- Bayerisches Fernsehen (Bavaria)
- BR-alpha (Bavaria)
- hr-fernsehen (Hesse)
- Mitteldeutscher Rundfunk (Central Germany)
- NDR Fernsehen (Northern Germany)
- Radio Bremen TV (Bremen)
- rbb Fernsehen (Berlin, Brandenburg)
- SR Südwest Fernsehen (Saarland)
- SWR Fernsehen (Baden-Wuerttemberg, Rheinland-Palatine)
- WDR Fernsehen (Western Germany)
Unless you're stuck with an analogue terrestrial antenna (only Das Erste, ZDF, the local "third" programme and maybe a few commercial programms), you can also watch at least two (analogue cable, DVB-T) or all (DVB-C/S) of these regional programmes.Well, only those channels marked with * (yes, that's the two main channels) actually do show a few ads (up to 20 minutes per working day, not after 8pm, not interrupting programmes).
Hm, the last thing I remember from the BBC was a coproduction of the BBC and ZDF...
Of course, BBC programmes are more easily exported to other English- and even American-speaking countries.
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This reminds me... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Shouldn't the money go to supporting internet related media, like podcasts? If I don't have a TV, why should I be forced to pay taxes that support it?
-Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
Actually... (Score:2)
The German public broadcasting networks publish a growing number of programmes as podcasts. And the most known podcaster will start soon a radio show about podcasts and blogs. The show is called Trackback [spreeblick.com].
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Radio programs are normally available [swr3.de] streamed, afaik TV programs are not and no-one is going to demand that the extra cash raised is ring-fenced.
I certainly will not be getting a UMTS mobile phone because the fee is raised there as well. Given the obscene amount of money various Mobile Phone companies paid for their UMT
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You do realise Spain is a democracy don't you?
It's 2004 again (Score:5, Interesting)
The fee is due not for watching TV, but for "having a TV set ready for reception of a TV signal". Because the public TV programming is available as an IP stream, every computer that could be hooked to the Internet is "being ready for reception". And don't try to argue that your computer is running Linux and thus not "ready". It is able to run an operating system that could display the TV stream, even though it is not running it right now.
In general you have to pay the fee only once, independent of the number of "TV ready" equipment you are using. Only if you have some private radio/TV sets and some in your business, the fee is due twice (a car radio in a car used for business for instance has to be paid for in addition to the one in your home).
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Twists of logic (Score:4, Interesting)
Needless to say, if the fee is supposed to be justified by the "programming being made available to everyone (with a license)", then it would really have to be
So the businesses' outrage at these surreal fees is quite justified.
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I am not sure if TV programs are currently streamed at all but I am sure that if they are, it is in multiple formats and Linux distributions will be providing programs to handle the non-proprietary formats.
There is talk of some Windows program which - when installed - will cripple the ability of PCs to receive these streams. I would prefer it if the ISPs simply refused to pass this stuff through. I would strongly consider changing to a broadband ISP which offered
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excellent means to spread their propaganda.
The ARD in particular is made up of regional companies which sometines reflect the prevailing political trends in those regions (pretty disparate) and sometimes deliberately buck trends. There is consensus on one point though, the Neo Nazis do not get a good press.
ZDF (the other TV station) has traditionally been fairly close to the Christian Democrats although I am not
Better Idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Positives from a government point of view:
1)Eliminate/reduce clueless users supporting spam/virus writers/bot-nets.
2)YAT Yet another tax for the government
About the german internet fee (Score:5, Interesting)
if you own a device that is capable of receiving public tv or radio than you must
pay a fee of 17.52 Euro/Month (for tv and radio) or 5.x for radio.
But you have to pay only for one device even if you own more.
This money is used to fund the state owned public tv and radio stations across the country
To my knowledge, we have the worlds most expensive public tv with a annual budget of
8.2 Billion Euro where 6.5 Billion Euro are coming from the fee (2004 data).
In 2004 the ingenious people of the public broadcasting sector realized that there are
now some people watching tv using their computer and thus are not required to pay.
They got politics to define computers, mobile phones etc. with internet connections as "novel tv devices"
with the intention of getting the people to pay that dumped their regular tvs for
computers.
For some reason this legislation was postponed until 2007 and is now coming into effect.
Particularly annoying is this new fee for companies. Especially small companies as you
have to pay for tv devices used by the company an extra time. This means that if you
work from home and have payed already for your private tv you will have to pay again for
your business computer with an internet connection.
This created some offroar now because since around 2005 a company is mandatorily
required to do the tax stuff via internet, and therefore by law must have a computer
with an internet connection.
The offroar was ongoing and recently the public broadcasting people have agreed to lower the
fee for internet computers from 17.52 (the tv and radio fee) to only 5.x which is the
fee if you have only one radio.
For me, running a small business from home, that means I will have to pay about 23 Euro
a month for public broadcasting
Yes, it it the same thing as 2004 (Score:5, Informative)
It is called "GEZ Gebühr" (fee for the GEZ [www.gez.de], the Gebühreneinzugszentrale - Central for fee collecting, a divison of the public broadcast services ARD and ZDF), everyone in Germany has to pay the GEZ fee to receive radio broadcasts (reduced fee, about 5 Euro per month) or TV and radio broadcasts (full fee, about 15 Euro per month). It does not depend on the number of devices, you have to pay 15 Euro no matter if you own one TV set or 10.000. Some group of persons may apply for exemption.
The original idea of the "internet fee" was that you could receive internet streams from the websites of the public broadcast services with an internet capable device (not only PCs, but also UMTS mobile phones), so a PC would be equal to a TV set (yes, that's how german politicans think) and you have to pay the full GEZ fee. It simply does not matter if you actually do receive those streams, all that counts is that you are able to recevie them.
After lots of complaints from nearly every organisation, the "internet fee" was changed to the reduced radio fee. This does not affect common households, because they usually already pay for receiving radio and TV broadcasts, so the PC is "just another TV set". But each and every company that uses even only one PC now has to pay 5 Euro per month for the ability(!) to receive TV and radio broadcasts via internet. A related information: The german tax authorities force you to use an internet capable PC for your monthly tax declaration, so nearly every company now has to pay the GEZ fee.
Tux2000, nearly becoming mad during the attempt to translate this nonsense into english
"Net Neutrality" bill (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies only pay for one computer (Score:5, Informative)
Each household pays a monthly or quarterly bill to the state run TV and Radio stations. They pay the same amount no matter how many computers, TVs or radios they have. The bill is one single price per household.
Each company pays only one bill no matter how many computers or TVs they have. It is NOT based on the number of computers.
Slashdot and its sensationalist attempts to gather hits and therefore drive up ad revenue make their comments on any news event seem very hypocritical.
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(It already has to pay 5 Euros per month for each radio in every company owned car and also for every company owned radio-(speaker) in the buildings.
If you bring your private radio/tv to your workplace, you have to pay the 5 Euros per month yourself.)
What is the penality for not paying this? (Score:2)
Much better (Score:2)
My desk phone shows a strange interference case: I can head AM radios! Unluckily (for them) I'm not in Germany
quick impact analysis (Score:5, Insightful)
Which means that anyone who already owns a radio won't pay anything in addition.
The fee affects two groups of people:
a) Those who have neither radio nor television, but a PC or mobile.
b) companies, which usually fall into group a) if you want to be nitpicking.
Since I fall in group a) I will be engaging in civil disobedience next year. Many others will, too. It'll be interesting to see how that goes, because despite their advertisement, the GEZ (the company that collects the fees) does not, in fact, have any powers to actually do their job. They can send you nasty letters and that's about it. They can't enter your house if you don't let them in, for example. They can't return with police to force their way in, even if they claim they can.
Germany: Nice Place to Visit, But (Score:4, Interesting)
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For example, they run the hospital where I was born. Or the the kindergarten where I went to as a kid.
In fact, they run many services of social importance.
They also have a lot of old buildings to maintain (which are often considered as culturally and historically important).
I agree that the system of the state collecting taxes from members of a church for their church is a bit strange. However, in practice, I think that most people who somehow
Violation of freedom (Score:4, Interesting)
So, you're sitting there, minding your own business, and the State comes along with what is an absolutely disgustingly expedient excuse of a reason - "your PC is capable of running Windows and is capable of receiving IP and so can be used to view public TV and radio, so you must support that public TV and radio" - and then takes your money.
It's a money-grab. It's simply a method to extract money.
It is utterly, utterly disrespectful to the people the State is supposed to represent; they're not being treated as people, but as wallets, to raid.
It's also absolutely insane from an economists point of view. Taxation inherently discourages growth. There are ways to tax which minimize discouragement. It is absolutely insane to tax in any other way. This tax is criminally stupid.
Finally, the simplest and most profound issue is that this event has *happened*, with all that it illustrates about the relationship between the German State and the people comprising that State.
can or do? (Score:2)
If its 'do', then its a good way to kill off the internet in that country. its pretty easy to hide behind a firewall so at least you dont get changed for every pc at home, but it will still be hard on large companies. yet another fee to pass down to its customers. great
People can only be taxed so much before they revolt. I wonder what the Germans limit is? ( hell, i wonder wh
Some Background (Score:2, Informative)
2. If you already pay for radio or TV, you don't pay for your computer
3. The fee is the same as for radio, it was reduced from the much higher one for TV because there were a lot of protests and
Its not a license fee, its just a fee. (Score:4, Informative)
There are attempts to stop that, but likely they fail. If that is not from the table I will leave this country
o I don't own a TV set
o with a computer you actually can't watch TV, as no single station is even broadcastin into the internet (except some news every 2 hours for 5 or 15 minutes)!!
o it would be totally simple to use an authentification schema so that only ppl who pay hte fee could recieve (download/stream) TV
angel'o'sphere
Not a "license" fee (Score:3, Insightful)
For me, a modern solution would include some settop-box for everyone that wants to access their contents, and they get a card to access it if wanted.
Comparably, I could put up the software I'm writing on the internet, and ask money from everyone that _could in theory_ download it.
This whole thing is hillarious!
- Hubert
If you have a radio, you already pay that fee (Score:4, Interesting)
In Denmark, too (Score:5, Interesting)
From 1st January 2007 every household in Denmark that has a PC and an Internet connection will have to pay a "media license" of DKK 2090 (EUR 280) annually, even if you don't use your Internet connection to watch TV streams from DR (the national Danish TV station).
The FAQ (in Danish) is here [www.kum.dk].
It sucks.
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But to make me pay the fee, I'd pretty much require:
Higher quality streaming
Better Firefox/MPlayer/Totem/Whatever compatibility
Open standard codecs
Live streaming of every channel - even when they show movies
Possibility to watch and do
Meine Frau (Score:3)
They replied that, while changing continents was all very interesting, it didn't disprove her ownership of a TV or radio in Germany. (When she was a student in Ulm, she reports that they came by almost monthly, demanding entrance to inspect for gadgets).
She eventually had to cancel the bank account the authorities were tapping to stop the pain, after she had left the country.
My sister-in-law, still in Old Europe, is currently forced to prove that she doesn't own any of these gadgets.
Probably a libertarian argument in here somewhere...
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