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RTS Halo Mod Stopped by Microsoft 182

Headcase88 writes "Microsoft has officially asked the creators of Halogen to stop development at once. Halogen was an RTS mod being developed by Halo fans for the past three years. From the website: ' I was going to write a big sappy letter here, but what's the point. So..that's it then, I guess. The forums, site, and Moddb profile will all be shut down within the week. I can't say it hasn't been fun. It's a shame it has to end like this, but I suppose that's how it goes. Thanks, guys, for all the time you've spent supporting us. It's been a pleasure. We hate this as much as you do.' "
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RTS Halo Mod Stopped by Microsoft

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  • Too bad... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SirTalon42 ( 751509 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @06:35PM (#16072924)
    Too bad Valve didn't do this with Counter Strike, if they did maybe they would still be in business now...
    • Re:Too bad... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Schraegstrichpunkt ( 931443 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @07:23PM (#16073111) Homepage
      I was thinking the same thing about id and Quake.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Das Modell ( 969371 )
        But it's id's game and engine. I think Halogen is different because it's such an independent project, and not done with either of the Halo engines (if such a thing was possible). There was a Quake 2/3 mod (I forget which) called Generations which took characters and other elements from Wolf3D, Doom and Quake (and Q2, if it was a Q3 mod). Activision shut it down, but not id. So, I think if you stick to the game you're modding for or make something original, it's all legal. A port of Duke3D to Source was rece
        • Re:Too bad... (Score:5, Informative)

          by spauldo ( 118058 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @08:29PM (#16073408)
          Someone once claimed that if copyright holders don't enforce their copyrights, they'll lose them.

          That's trademarks. Copyright doesn't require enforcement - everyone could use your works and then you could sue Joe Bob 'cause you think he's ugly. As long as he doesn't have explicit permission to your works, you're in the right.

          I put it down to lawyers being lawyers, and businesses being myopic in general. I'm sure they have their reasons, and I'm sure they're silly, but they take it seriously.
        • by Andy Dodd ( 701 )
          Generations is still around - []

          That said, all of the "non-Quake3" models, art, and sounds are done from scratch to match the "original" art and sounds as best as possible, but there are definately differences. Wirehead couldn't just rip the models/skins and especially sounds from the original games. The end result is that Slipgater (Quake 1 character) rocket explosion sounds are just as wimpy as in Quake 2 and Quake 3, not the incredible room-shaking BOOM that Qua
      • Re:Too bad... (Score:5, Informative)

        by grumbel ( 592662 ) <> on Saturday September 09, 2006 @08:51PM (#16073533) Homepage
        I was thinking the same thing about id and Quake.

        There is however a big difference: They are modding Command&Conquer and not Halo.

        C&C is EAs property, not Microsofts. So if this mod would have become successfull, it would mean more C&C copies sold and EA makes more money, not exactly in the interest of Microsoft, since they get zero out of it.

        • by GeckoX ( 259575 )
          And if they don't make would mean no copies of C&C sold, EA makes no money, MS gets bad publicity, MS makes a lot of fanboy enemies, HALO as a brand takes a hit, MS loses money.

          Yep, very logical, but nearsighted decision. Par for the course with MS of course.
          • by ivan256 ( 17499 )
            If they don't stop these guys, they lose their trademark on 'Halo'. That's about as big a hit that a brand can take, don't you think?
            • by ibbey ( 27873 ) *
              I'm know little about this particular situation, but I am somewhat familiar with several similar situations, and although IANAL, I am pretty familiar with trademark law. You are correct that you must protect your trademark in order to retain rights to it, but it's not quite that simple. Trademark law does not protect you from anyone other then yourself from using your trademark, only from people misrepresenting their product using your trademark, or otherwise taking advantage of your trademark (or somethin
              • In most of these cases, from a purely legal perspective, the modders seem to have a pretty strong case.

                No, they have a spectacularly weak case. The touchstone in trademark cases is the likelihood of consumer confusion. Halo and HaloGen are both video games. They take place in the same universe, with the same factions, the same characters, the same look and feel, and the same storyline. There is no way you can argue that this isn't likely to create confusion between what is and is not officially sancti

                • by ibbey ( 27873 ) *
                  I don't think it's that simple, but as I said, I don't know all the details (there wasn't much info on the site when I visited it). Assuming that you need to buy a copy of Halo to use the mod, then Microsofts case is weak. How can requiring the purchase of Halo weaken the Halo brand? If they are using the art, concept, etc. without requiring the purchase of Halo, then you are correct that Trademark law would apply and MS's case would indeed be quite strong. I still tend to think that Microsoft's actions are
                  • Assuming that you need to buy a copy of Halo to use the mod

                    A very poor assumption, considering that this is a mod of C&C Generals, and not Halo.

                    • by ibbey ( 27873 ) *
                      Not a poor assumption at all considering the headline "RTS Halo Mod Stoppedby Microsoft" and that neither the article nor the Halogen website (as of the time of my post) go into details about the nature of the mod. Based on the information available to me, it seems a perfectly reasonable assumption that this "Halo Mod" was a mod of Halo, not of C&C. I tried to be clear in my original post that my comment was based on the limited info that was available to me when I posted it. As I clarified in my last p
        • Two things come to mind:
            - why don't they contact Microsoft to see if they can come up with a licensing deal?
            - why not take advantage of the work they have done, rebrand it, change the graphics slightly, and simply make it into a D&D Mecha type game?
        • Re:Too bad... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by tambo ( 310170 ) on Sunday September 10, 2006 @10:00AM (#16075405)
          C&C is EAs property, not Microsofts. So if this mod would have become successfull, it would mean more C&C copies sold and EA makes more money, not exactly in the interest of Microsoft, since they get zero out of it.

          Not necessarily true.

          First, Microsoft clearly loses nothing from this mod, since it's unlikely to displace their sales of their own properties.

          Second, the goodwill generated by the Halo mod - nostalgia, fondness for the franchise, etc. - may well have sold more copies of Halo for it... without Microsoft having had to lift a finger.

          (Then there's also the small bit about not pissing off all of the Halo fans who wanted to see the mod.)

          So it seems kind of ridiculous for Microsoft to make this move. I'm guessing that its primary interest is in retaining control of the dogma surrounding the Halo universe. Doesn't seem sufficient justification to me, but at least there's a core of rationality here.

          - David Stein

          • Yeah I agree with you on all your points... the only thing I can think of was that Halo (before it came to the Xbox) was originally going to be an RTS before MS bought them IIRC. There has also been more then one rumor that they plan to eventually release a Halo RTS as a way to branch the franchises out laterally as opposed to just a sequel machine. If that is the case then MS might want to shut this project down for the fact that at some point it WILL be competing directly with one of their own products an
      • Nice snark...unfortunately, it's totally besides the point. As the GP post about HL and CounterStrike.

        It's an intellectual property thing; CS was a thing the makers dreamt up themselves...totally their own material. Many mods are, and very few mods based off someone elses IP doesn't get stopped. This Halo RTS thing is a bunch of modders too lazy/uncreative to think up their own IP, thus they nick someone elses and use that for their mod. All well and cool, but if Bungie wants to create their own Halo RTS, t
    • Except the art assets in Counter-Strike weren't just pulled from Half-Life. They were designed/made by the modder

      This is still lame, but technically within MS's legal rights.
  • Hmmm (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Three years and MS never said anything. Makes me wonder if Bungie has a Halo universe based RTS in the works post Halo 3.
    • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Aladrin ( 926209 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @06:39PM (#16072941)
      Or maybe they just hadn't heard of it until now. I certainly hadn't.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Traiklin ( 901982 )
      probably not, but Microsoft doesn't want the Halo name to be tainted by some halfassed game that people will think is the real thing from bungie.

      Yes that was ment to be taken sarcastically...well the halfassed part.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by RobertM1968 ( 951074 )

      Or maybe they ignored it since it will probably drive up and hang on to the user base of Halo... then when the net effects of it arent creating such a result or is conflicting with their attempts to market similar (planned?, existing?) features through their gaming/online services / new releases, they put their foot down.

      Sound kinda like doing nothing about "leaked" versions of Vista - until after the release when they have used up its marketing and exposure worth and want people to buy the "finished" vers

    • Or perhaps MS was hoping the project would be farther along, and close to a commercial project by now, thus they could come in and threaten legal action or "buy them out" for a song?

      I hate to be cynical, but it is not like MS hasn't played dirty in the past. A lot. But in all fairness, we need more info. My guess is MS won't be forthcoming with any.
    • oh the irony (Score:4, Informative)

      by cortana ( 588495 ) < minus threevowels> on Saturday September 09, 2006 @06:55PM (#16072996) Homepage
      Halo was originally going to be an RTS, back when its working title was Armor, I think. Then it became a third person shooter, then MS bought Bungie and fucked everything up.
      • Re:oh the irony (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Ponzicar ( 861589 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @08:13PM (#16073330)
        Yes, damn them for making the most successful console fps ever!
        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by warbinger ( 973057 )
          Uh. MS didn't make it. Bungie did. Bungie in fact has it as a FPS WAY before MS bought them in 2000/2001. They showed it off in 1999 in fact at, the quite ironic place, MacWorld ;)
          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by hunterkll ( 949515 )
            And it ran great on a 300mhz G3 or something of that nature too.... Man, porting to D3D and back must really, really have hurt it :/
            • It turned into a DirectX 9 tech demo where the developers basically told their customers to go sit on it and spin because "you don't know anything about 3D hardware like our godly programmers". They later whipped out the "You should be more grateful that we ported it to the PC at all! We're not making a dime off the PC port!". Must not have been too bad if they're porting Halo 2 to DirectX 10 (odd that a game that ran on DirectX 8 level hardware and a Win2k based OS will require DX 10 and Vista...). Oh yes,
        • Very very sad if the most successful fps ever doesn't require you to actually aim a weapon, and has no jetpacks or spinfusors. Shazbot.
  • Wait... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Enoxice ( 993945 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @06:38PM (#16072940) Journal
    I'm this a C&C mod taking place in the Halo universe? Yeah, I guess I can't blame MS for shutting them down. But what's stopping them from removing Halo references, changing the graphics/story a bit and reopening?
    • All their visual and aural assets are likely based off of Halo concepts and designs. They'd have to remake everything but the coding.
      • With the number of high school kids i've seen over the years who become damn near amazing with little training and a pirated copy of photoshop. it shouldn't be hard for someone in the community to be given the source graphics. check out the sizes, redesign them around a new theme, then republish. give it 1 or 2 months, they'll be set.
    • This is really a shame. At least MS could have let them finish and then buy it from them at a minimal cost. If they didn't like it they would have shelved it or released it on live.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      The Halo references were the whole point. And, if you've seen the graphics I'm sure you'd think otherwise about changing them. They were stunning examples of low-poly 3D modelling that were damn-near perfect replicas of Halo models. The screen shots posted might have well been taken from a sky-cam from the actual Halo game. It wasn't so much that it was quality craftsmanship, it was the fact that it was pretty much a perfect replica of Halo's 3D look in RTS format.

      It's kinda like that diorama of the 47 Roni
    • Seriously, all they have to do is make it about guys in SUPIR armor fighting to unlock the mysteries of the SPACE RINGS and they're good to go.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The forums, site, and Moddb profile will all be shut down within the week.

    If only I knew this before they closed it all down (I wish that said by the end of the week!), is someone going to host this on a torrent site somewhere? Thanks.
  • by Madpony ( 935423 )
    This reminds me of when EA put a stop to Peroxide's Ultima I remake. Peroxide never intended to make any money off of their work, and I doubt these guys did either... Yet these companies squash the project. If I were in their positions, I would be flattered that people enjoyed their product so much they decided to make a tribute to it.
    • I thought that not making a product for profit was protected in some way. Can't they make all the Halo games they want and release them for free? Why not? I thought that copyright allowed this. Anyone know?
    • It's copyright law; you risk devaluation of your intellectual property if you let someone use it for free.
    • by oskard ( 715652 )
      Unless of course, Microsoft also intended to create an RTS based on the Halo universe. Since it IS MS, something tells me they're going to milk the Halo cow for all its worth. Why wouldn't Microsoft assimilate if they didn't intend on making a similar product. Instead, they chose to destroy.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by tgibbs ( 83782 )

      Yet these companies squash the project. If I were in their positions, I would be flattered that people enjoyed their product so much they decided to make a tribute to it.

      You aren't thinking like a corporate lawyer:

      "It's our IP. If somebody wants to use it, they should pay us for a license. A lot. If we let somebody use our IP for free, then why should anybody pay us for it? Maybe somebody, someday, would have wanted to pay us to do this, but they won't because we let somebody else do it for free! Or maybe w

      • Since Microsoft has an army of salaried lawyers at its disposal, I assume they have standing orders like:

        "When you are not currently working on a case, browse the web to see if there is someone who is possibly infringing on Microsoft's IP. If you do find someone, send out a letter. If they back down, fine. If not, see if you can make a profitable case out of it. Since your salary is already paid, this can never hurt."

  • by westlake ( 615356 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @06:52PM (#16072987)
    Successful fan projects like the Star Trek films begin by reaching an understanding with the copyright owner. There are many advantages: access to talent, access to resources, assistance in distribution.

    Why invest three years in a mod when you know the environment is hostile?

    • Because its assumed nobody will care -- as is the case with "normal" 3D video game vendors like ID Software.

      I can't name the number of 3rd party mods I've played to Quake/Enemy Territory over the years.
      • by JFMulder ( 59706 )
        Actually, companies like ID Software and Valve explicitely give away librairies and plugins to develop mods for their games. I must have missed the part when Bungie said to the world "Yeah, use our artwork in other things, we are cool with this."
      • Yeah...and most of them are original IP, made by the modders, not ripped off from a popular franchise because the modders were to lame to think up their own stuff.

        "Because its assumed nobody will care -- as is the case with "normal" 3D video game vendors like ID Software."

        Again, only if it's original IP: CounterStrike was an original did not steal the environment from, say, Blade Runner. Same for ActionQuake, Team Fortress etc etc etc.

        "Nobody cares" only happens if it's original IP (and if it's goo
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Osty ( 16825 )

      Why invest three years in a mod when you know the environment is hostile?

      That's a good question. Bungie (and Microsoft) have been historically non-hostile with regards to Halo properties (see Red vs. Blue, for example). However, in just about every case where Bungie/Microsoft have given implicit or explicit approval, the authors of such works came to them before-hand (or soon afterwards). So, given that Bungie is fan-friendly, and that there are probably more than a few Microsoft and Bungie employees

      • Red vs Blue is so not a good example to put here. It's machinima based off the engine; you watch a movie. It's not a game you play. It's not something a potential Bungie Halo RTS has to win market share from. And even the Halo movie won't have anything to win back from Red vs Blue, as they are totally different things. RvB is something so far removed from the Halo franchise that of course it gets left's not threatening/infringing in any way to what Bungie is trying to sell.
    • by ewhac ( 5844 )
      Why invest three years in a mod when you know the environment is hostile?

      Why torpedo three years of someone else's work when it's no skin off your nose to just leave them alone?


    • "Successful fan projects like the Star Trek films begin by reaching an understanding with the copyright owner"

      Copyright owners don't want fan projects, they want money. Do you really think if fan's walked up to the company to ask for their blessing they would? It's ridiculous 99% of the people out there in control DO NOT GIVE A FUCK about the fan's, they only care about the bottom line.

      Similar things have happened with other projects... Chrono Trigger Fan remake and BnetD come to mind, where people wanted
      • by JFMulder ( 59706 )
        I cannot agree less with your post. These people have spent time and most of all money to create a story and develop a product around it. It is entirely reasonable for them to want to protect said investment. Especially since, in the Chrono Trigger case, they weren't actually making a side story set in the same universe, but blatantly ripping off the entire game and giving it a 3d look. I think its sad that Square did this, but I totally understand why they did it.

        I don't know about you, but ever since I've
  • Isn't modding a game simply legal? While selling it without permission would be iffy at best, making a mod should not be. Distributing it can be tricky, if you need to distribute copyrighted files along with your modded files.

    Maybe get some legal advice? Stopping development on a pet project just 'cause someone says you can't do it seems overkill.
    • Modding is legal, modding using someone elses copyrighted art isn't.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Toby_Tyke ( 797359 )
        Bingo. I'm always amazed when people do things like this. These guys have put in three years of work on this project, and at no point over that entire time did any of them think that maybe they ought to check with MS's legal department first.

        Hell, if they had just dropped MS an e-mail three years ago, they could have been refused permission straight away, and spent the last three years developing a game using original IP. And then, if it turned out to be any good, they might even have made some money off
    • by daranz ( 914716 )
      Modding a game might be legal, but at the same time, it would be illegal to include copyrighted content in the mod for that game. IANAL, but I imagine that in order to release anything set in the Halo universe (such as a movie, game, or even text fanfiction), you'd need permission from MS.
      • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Robot Randy ( 982296 )
        Maybe they could contact Larry Niven and get permission for it to be a Ringworld Game/Movie/Fan Fiction.

        They might need to pony up some funds to get rights for a game or movie, but I'm guessing Larry would be pleased with a good fan written story. (Heck, he let Roddenberry use one of his stories for an animated Star Trek episode...)

      • by RingDev ( 879105 )
        That why my mod is based in the "Hey-lo" universe. ;)

  • Let Microsoft know we're here! Drop them a line and protest it. Think it through, add all arguments against closing it down, order them and send them through. If you're short on time, at least send a mail saying you disagree. It takes 20 seconds and may help, you never know. Microsoft has billions, more products and lawyers than the Senate, a five foot effigy of Kaiser Sosa and some far too intelligent buggers running sales, but we are the Slashdot Effect.

    - Jynx

  • Nothing new (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Cannelbrae ( 157237 )
    The mod community has aware of the risks of this type of mod since the infamous 'Foxing' of the Aliens vs. Predator mod in 94. If you use someones elses IP and they get wind of it, you have a 90% chance of getting shut down. Best case scenario, you get to finish the product but they own it/have massive say in what happens.

    To be fair, these mods do undercut the future marketability of franchise products. Lets say they did pull off an extremely popular, successful Halo RTS game - now Bungie just has more comp
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Ok, I really, really can't imagine how fan stuff, when clearly marked as such, is going to significantly impact their sales.

      Historically, I imagine it's helped, more than anything. Consider all the Star Wars fan films. Consider Star Trek New Voyages.

      Really, how, exactly, is this competition? It's even a different genre, fercryinoutloud. "Oh, I love RTSes, but the StarCraft story just sucks ass, so I played Halo instead. But now that there's a Halo RTS, I won't have to buy Halo 3!"
  • I'm amused by how retarded closing this mod is. Perhaps killing your fan base and getting rid of non-commercial projects that advertise and improve the product you're selling for free is the latest business good practice?

    This shows Microsoft is not a game company, and is not to be taken seriously for gaming.

    Smarter companies like Bethesda do the exact opposite: they release the tools they used to make the game themselves, and support and advertise modding. As a consequence, they get free workforce to im

    • by amliebsch ( 724858 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @08:31PM (#16073417) Journal
      Except they weren't modding Halo, they were modifying a completely different game using Halo assets.
    • by Cheapy ( 809643 )
      You could've had the most well thought-out comment ever to grace slashdot's pages, but I can't respect someone who insists on labelling things as "retarded."

      Grow up.
    • Uh, how retarded is spending your time and effort in an attempt to take Microsoft-owned assets and convert them to a EA-owned game when you know, you know, that the instant it's discovered by the copyright holder it'll be shut down? I mean duh! If they somehow thought they wouldn't be shut down, ... well, they'd pretty much have to be actual retards to think that.
  • Seriously. Go install Freenet and Frost. Give it an hour to get up and running within the network. Create a Frost board, announce it, and coordinate further development pseudonymously.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pilkul ( 667659 )
      Great. And then when you want to put the project on your C.V. for employment in the game industry, you can't because it was pursued while known to be unauthorized. Also in addition to putting in lots of work during your free time, now you are putting yourself at risk of being sued, all for no personal benefit. Put yourself in their shoes a little.
  • Hey... what's that Jake?
      These guys are making an RTS Halo Mod, sir.
    Gosh... isn't that..?
      Yes sir, it's what we call 'a good idea'.
    Jake, call the lawyers. This must be stopped at all costs.
      They're already on their way, sir.
  • When creating a project based on someone else's IP, particularly using actual art of that IP, it's best to get an agreement from the copyright owner. I think that Roosterteeth, the creators of "Red vs Blue", reached an agreement with MS that allowed them to make their videos (which utilized art taken right out of Halo itself). These "Halogen" guys (this is the first I'd heard of them) should've done the same.
  • Red vs Blue? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SanityInAnarchy ( 655584 ) <> on Saturday September 09, 2006 @08:08PM (#16073299) Journal
    I haven't heard a single complaint from Microsoft about Red vs Blue [], and that was arguably a commercial venture for at least awhile. In fact, Bungie included features in Halo 2 specifically to help RVB -- the ability to lower your weapon, for one.

    Ok, fine, it wasn't a game, it's a TV series, but isn't that reasonable competition for, say, the Halo movie?

    Not to mention that this actually hurts MS more than it helps them, though it probably won't have much of an effect.

    Can anyone give me a moral and/or legal downside to leaving the mod team alone? Or maybe signing some rights over to them, if you need to make it legal?
    • They started out as a fan based machinima group. MS liked waht they did and gave them their blessing and later made a commercial deal with them. You should really get your facts straight.
      • Ok, my facts are now straight, and I still don't get it. Why couldn't MS do the same with these guys? Or at least sign some sort of a deal such that they're free to develop the product until MS decides they can't?
        • Because it's made with a competitor's game. Why would MS want to help EA sell more copies of their games?
          • For the same reason they might buy advertising in EA's games. That's not entirely without precedent -- TV networks advertise on each other all the time.

            It's just that in this case, the advertising happens to be free, for both of them.
    • by JFMulder ( 59706 )
      Can anyone give me a moral and/or legal downside to leaving the mod team alone? Or maybe signing some rights over to them, if you need to make it legal?

      Maybe because Bungie is working on an unannounced project that IS an Halo RTS? That would be a pretty good incentive for Microsoft to send this mod an legal warning.
    • Because Bungie might want to create a Halo RTS of their own (Halo was originally designed to be a RTS, only they found their design worked better as an FPS)? If the mod sucks, a Halo RTS has been tainted in the public eye, and if the mod roicks, why buy a Bungie made Halo RTS? That's why Bungie/MS are putting a stop to this project.

      Furthermore, the team behind the mod KNEW this could happen. Everyone who steals ideas know it can and does happen. Especially in the mod scene; you've all heard the stories abou
      • Everyone who steals ideas

        At this point, it was hard to keep reading. I don't consider it "stealing the idea" when it's an obvious homage, and everyone knows what the source material is.

        Especially in the mod scene; you've all heard the stories about the DBZ/StarWars/Trekkie mods which got stopped.

        This bit is actually completely uninformed. Trek in particular has, at least recently, allowed a blatant fan series [] to go on unhindered. There isn't a good legal reason for it, but there is a tacit agreement [].

  • by ink ( 4325 ) on Saturday September 09, 2006 @09:13PM (#16073615) Homepage
    I don't know anything about Halogen, but there is another fan-coded RTS/FPS called Tremulous []. It's pretty fun, and very well balanced. It's based on the GPL Quake 3 code. Nobody is going to be sending a cease-and-desist letter any time soon... or ever.
  • Pretty simple. MS is making their own Halo RTS. MS owns the copyrights to the characters and used that to leverage the shutdown. They shutdown this particular mod because it is close to their product, and with the same chars, it would be competition.
  • Foxed. (Score:2, Informative)

    Haven't you people learned? As long as some company owns the rights / copyrights / whateverrights to something that could conceivably make them a friggen' ***DIME*** - maybe not now, maybe not in 10 years, but at some distant point in the future, most companies CAN and WILL "protect" their intellectual property.

    If you're going to make a mod based on other people's junk, you better be prepared to go underground, or release it from some country that doesn't give a frack about WIPO - and then hope you never vi
    • Unlike Microsoft and Fox Interactive, Epic Games embraces its Mod community wholeheartedly. They encourage them rather than discourage them and have never ever requested that any project be stopped. In fact, Epic includes a majority of the tools mod developers need with every copy of Unreal Tournament, UT2k3 and most recently UT2k4. UT2k7 will be no exception to this whatsoever. Epic and Nvidia even hold annual mod developer competitions with millions of dollars in price money and computer equipement to
      • WTF does tha have to do with anything? MS and EA actively promote modding too (XNA, mechwarrior code opensourced). What they do not promote (and neither do Valve and EPIC) is stealing someone else's hard work (universe, unit designs etc) and using that as the basis for your game. Shit, these guys are really dumb to not expect being taken down; the mod world know that if you mod using someone elses IP, they will stop you.

        If, however, you create a mod with you own ideas, universe, units etc, no-one will stop

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. -- F.M. Hubbard