Blu-Ray and HD-DVD Playback Under XP 278
An anonymous reader writes "In the last few weeks the first HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives for PCs have slowly trickled onto the market. Up to now, it has not been clear what system requirements you need to actually be able to play HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs. The operating system was the main cause of concern; many rumors cropped up that the new generation of video discs would not work under Windows XP. Hardware.Info put the question to Cyberlink, the company behind Power DVD, if the lack of a protected videopath in Windows XP would make it impossible to enable HD-DVD or Blu-Ray playback. They have answered the questions, and provide a complete checklist of what you need to play Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies in HD resolutions on your home PC."
1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:5, Informative)
> use fashion. It's hard to think of any other way to get the formats dropped faster.
You mean like DVD was dropped? Nope, once they commit billions to pushing a format that have to follow through. At least once it hits a critical mass. If the crack doesn't appear until after millions of players are fielded and thousands of titles are released they are stuck.
Since Vista dropped the requirement for TPCM we have all known the next gen DVD formats were going to get cracked. As soon as a software based player is available it is toast. And I'll tell ya something else. Mplayer won't need a dual core CPU and a 256MB video card for playback either.
Regular DVDs could be played back with a 1X DVD drive, a Pentium 90 and a video card with hardware scaling and color space conversion (i.e. xv support). A little back of the envelope math tells me a fast single core Intel or AMD cpu is more than enough. If your video card can do scaled video and colorspace on 1920x1080 windows you should be in the ballpark. If you have XvMC support you should be golden. HD video isn't THAT many more bits or pixels per second, despite what the marketing would have you believe.
Besides, I still don't understand your thinking. If it isn't cracked I ain't buying in. Didn't buy DVD until DVD Jon make it usable. So if this stuff ain't cracked it can all rot in hell for all I care.
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:4, Interesting)
Ther's a LOT more going on with these formats than just playing back a single moderate data rate file! Look at the above, and you can see why multiple threads + GPU decoder and rendering asssist are extremely helpful.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Nice features to have, but most of us will only be watching the movie. One HD video stream and one audio, either decoded ijn software or passed out on an optical plug. And do the math on the movie itself. Assume a dual layer BD-ROM (by the time a crack appears these will actually be shipping in quantity) with a single movie. That gives you 50GB of data for a two hour movie. Compare to a DVD with 9
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:4, Informative)
I gather you haven't seen any of the IME (In Movie Experience) titles. For example, on Bourne Supremacy, on the fly you can have a video commentary track, where the director or producer will pop up as a picture-in-picture to give a face to the narration. Lots of very cool things along these lines will be coming in later titles, and its stuff you'd want to be able to access. And we're talking real-world titles - there are clearly the bits available to do it.
Also, HD DVD absoutely mixes multiple audo sources in real-time, and this is used in real titles. They were required to be premixed on DVD, but not on HD DVD. This is a good thing, since you don't have to waste bits on doing the base audio when doing commentary tracks. This is also why audio decoding is moving out of recievers into the players, and the players output mixed PCM over HDMI as the optimum output mode.
You're dramatically underestimating the load of rich media playback, and overestimating the load of decryption. And I'm not aware of any software players that'll be doing any sort of reencryption in software, or why that would be needed.
I imagine free players like VLC will eventually support playback of non-AACS HD DVD discs. But they'll have similar decoder requirements. We're definitely talking about using GPU compositing, GPU codec decode assist, etcetera.
And we're not even talking about Blu-ray, which has higher max codec complexity, plus it has to run a Java VM and another encryption layer...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:4, Insightful)
With that said, I think everybody agrees that the formats certainly will be cracked, so, meh.
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:5, Interesting)
> cracked, no one would buy in, and the formats would rot, which would be a good thing.
Why would it be a good thing?
Fact: DVD is near the end of its life for a high quality movie format. Disney titles for the kids? Another ten years, just like VHS is still clinging to life if that niche. A format to drive a 50" HD monitor? No.
Fact: Any new format will have all the DRM the industry thinks it can get away with.
Fact: The original plan was for Vista to be a TPCM only horror, and for HD content to only be playable on PCs with TPCM (ie. Vista and OS X on Intel). Hollywood had banked everything on that and was betrayed. (Nobody ever wins in a 'partnership' with Microsoft.)
Fact: If either/both of these new formats catch on they will be good enough to last 10-20 years, like DVD's eventual lifespan will probably end up and about like VHS's reign.
Fact: If both fail, by the time Hollywood is ready to try again we might not be lucky enough to get something so crackable.
Fact: If Hollywood has TPCM it is possible they might actually design something that can't be cracked. Or at least not cracked effortlessly, as DVDs are now. Microsoft's failure with Vista is our opportunity, we should seize it.
Re:1 goat, 1 long knife (Score:5, Informative)
And all you need to do that are 40 devices. You can extract their keys and quickly calculate the master key, which can then be used to circumvent the DRM.
From the paper:
Re: (Score:2)
DRM, just say no! (Score:2, Informative)
What you need to watch HD-DVD (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What you need to watch HD-DVD (Score:5, Informative)
Nope. It's going to look like a 2.5GHz P4 with 1GB RAM and a USB card running Red Hat. [geekswithblogs.net]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is NOT something that's going to "just work" on a P4M computer!
Re: (Score:2)
Dont take them so seriously.These guys usually recommend the highest config hardware available.
If Quad core Cpu was available for desktop now,then thats what these guys would recommend for "Best Optimal Performance"!
Re: (Score:2)
What a deal! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What a deal! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
HDCP not a requirement! (Score:3, Informative)
There is a technology called ICT (Image Constraint Token) that content publishers could turn on (but haven't) that'd reduce your output resolution to 940x540 if using a non HDCP output. But given how many players and sets there are out there that don't support it, all the released HD DVD titles don't use this, and will allow you to use every pixel of your current display.
Re:What a deal! (Score:5, Insightful)
Just to gauge the reaction, I explained the DMCA to my mother one day in plain English and she was aghast. People who don't hang out on here all day tend to not know these things.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What a deal! (Score:4, Interesting)
In short, I find all of this information suspect and most likely just a way to get people to buy more new hardware. Since Cyberlink makes most of their money from OEM deals, they have a large incentive to do so.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What's not clear? (Score:2, Funny)
Yes it has, 64-bits and a DRM-ridden OS
I thought we already discussed this?
Break open the bank, folks (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Break open the bank, folks (Score:4, Interesting)
I demo real HD content on a HTPC next to a HDDVD to a customer and they love the HTPC's picture over the HDDVD player. BluRay is not even HD quality yet as they do not have dual layer discs available yet so they are EDDVD instead of HDDVD.
Re: (Score:2)
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
You have to need psychotherapy to even consider buying into this format war.
I'll wait until there's a format where, when I push the Menu button after inserting a disc, I DON'T get "operation prohibited by disc". Prohibit my shiny white ass, disc makers!
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
No need to wait (Score:2)
Unless you wanted something more modern, in which case you'll probably be waiting... forever.
Re: (Score:2)
Only one last piece to the puzzle... (Score:2)
"Is my computer BD/HD ready?" command-line tool: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Is my computer BD/HD ready?" command-line tool (Score:4, Funny)
DeCSS for Blue Ray/HD-DVD? (Score:2, Insightful)
Does anyone know if the DRM/encryption in BD/HD has been cracked yet? Is DVD Jon working hard on this?
Once this crack becomes available, I should be able to play back the cracked BD/HD without having to "upgrade" to DRM-compliant hardware. However, I might have to replace my aging Radeon 8500 graphics card.
Re: (Score:2)
You really shouldn't need to, unless it doesn't support a high enough screen resolution. Playback of HD content has nothing to do with 3d rendering, just a series of 1920x1080 (at 1080p) 2d framebuffer fills.
Granted, you may find that you get a better framerate by having the player fake the data as textures, but that has more to do with driver optimization favoring gamers over media playback, than the nature of the data itself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Jon says he will (Score:4, Informative)
http://nanocrew.net/2006/01/08/deaacscom/ [nanocrew.net]
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060116-5989 .html [arstechnica.com]
Why would you even want it? (Score:3, Insightful)
BTW, are you sure you want to buy BluRay or HDDVDs?
I saw 2001: A Space Oddysey in high definition on HD Movies last July. It looked beautiful. I have the DVD and I watched it after the premiere just to compare the images. The hi-def version was sharper and the colors were brighter. In fact, if you have the DVD and a h
Re: (Score:2)
On the inside of her left forearm there is a brown spot that is clearly visible on the hi-def version. On the DVD you have to know it's there to see it.
Just makes me start to wonder how few applications there are where HD really matters. (Oh, I do have an aversion to watching football in SD, even on a small
Re: (Score:2)
But, yeah, like you I wonder WHY I would want to have to repurchase my collection of movies for something that has a GREAT image (if you have a television that supports it) and little else.
To be honest, I don't want DVD Jon to waste his time with this new format. I think in a few years these devices will be like Quadrophonic stereos and amplifiers from the 1970s.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Great, but I'd prefer not to see the stewardess's brown spot.
Re: (Score:2)
That said, people are going to be buying new computers for the most part to do this, since you'll need a new blue laser drive anyway, which is a good chunk of the price of a machine for the time being.
Re: (Score:2)
It was my understanding that there is a blacklist of players on the disc, and newer discs would blacklist the cracked device...but existing discs would continue to work fine.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That or, just get mad at people doing the cracking, but even dense people can't stay THAT dense for very long.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Consumers being held hostage (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
No, it is a racket to get the consumer to pay for all this equipment just so that they can further consolidate their power ag
does not matter. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
We call it future shop in Canada.
Re: (Score:2)
We call it future shop in Canada.
No you don't. I've been to Future Shop, and it was awful. Magnolia HiFi or Definitive Audio are much better.
The list is incomplete (Score:3, Funny)
Most important question (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hell, the utility to check and see if it works doesn't even run on Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
deCSS (Score:2)
Seriously, do they think the HDCP stuff will actually prevent people from using a HD-DVD drive and some fancy software to display the image at full resolution on the screen or even rip it directly to DivX? Even if Vista completely ensures through some black driver magic that applications are unable to access the higher-resolution data on video discs, what is to prevent a Linux or BSD based live CD that boots a HD-DVD player app? Wait, don'
HDPC? (Score:2)
Surely no-one's going to buy a bluray... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Surely no-one's going to buy a bluray... (Score:4, Funny)
One is a dangerous thing that will rip out your heart with a poisonous barb given half a chance, and the other is a harmless-if-not-provoked sea creature.
Cripes. (Score:4, Interesting)
That settles it... (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, you're forcing me to use Windows. You're forcing me to get all new hardware, not just the new drive mind you, but the whole shebang. New monitor, new video card, new OS in addition to the new drive. That is lunacy, pure and simple.
Let's not forget the obscene processor requirements
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, my main concern would be the $1000 (approx) that you need to put out for the damn drive
Yeah, but that'll drop as volume ramps up and the drives become commonpla... Ummmm, never mind. Yeah the drive's the first major hurdle.
I have an idea. (Score:3, Funny)
Why? (Score:2)
So, why the hell should I shell out roughly $500 just I can watch the same hollywood dreck in higher resolution?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The only people who will be watching HD movies (Score:2)
Jeez, I gave up my Commodore 64 for this?
What about Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
And, when will HD-DVD-R drives be avialable, so we can make our own data disks?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Single layer only though ...but 25 GB is enough for now I guess. (Not that I'll be investing at those prices !)
Not possible? (Score:2, Insightful)
No, the DRM technologies are required for you to be ALLOWED to play back the content you purchased in full HD resolution. It's not like the DRM is somehow technically necessary for the playback of HD video, although the article sure makes it sound like it.
If I was in charge of Microsoft (Score:3, Funny)
MPAA/RIAA: You will provide DRM (digital restrictions management) in your OS and ANY hardware we see fit. People are ripping us off left and right! Piracy is so rampant, we are going broke paying off politicians and lawyers to ram DRM down everyones throat.
MICROSOFT: (with me in charge) Fuck you guys, our customers don't want this DRM shit. It crates enormous overhead and will require everyone to buy all new hardware. Our customers are getting tired of this draconian and Stalinist attitude of yours. You are going to be MY bitch, and do EXACTLY what I tell you to do.
MPAA/RIAA: How dare you speak to us that way we'll sue!
MICROSOFT: (with me in charge) Bring it on bitch! We have been sued by governments, you'll pose no challenge at all.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually they are, but the MPAA/RIAA hasn't caught on.
The only reason Microsoft fixed the hole was because it allowed people to take their Windows Media files to other formats which may or not be compatible with non-Windows operating systems. Yeah... OS X has Windows Media Players... well sort of... but they are broke and usesless for a
My Checklist (Score:4, Interesting)
Bugger. That's me out in the first round. I'm not going to replace my good equipment, and especially my fantastic 19" CRT monitor, just to get 'high resolution' videos to play.
Graphics cards are even worse, there is only a handfull of cards out there that sport HDCP support.
Yes, and even those you buy yourself might have HDCP, but they won't have it switched on. However, many OEMs 'in the know' like HP, do. Sounds like lock-in to me.
The purchase of a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player will therefore have no added value to a normal DVD player without HDCP.
Fantastic. I'm sorry, why do I need to monkey about getting high definition content on my PC again, and why would I want to pay more money for HD discs over DVD when there's no benefit whatsoever? That sounds like a lovely way to get a new format to take off. Not.
I downloaded that checker and bugger, I can't play high definition disks. I'm...really...devastated.
Alternative checklist (Score:2)
1. Bittorrent client
2. Video player
(3. profit?)
Seriously though, I wonder when the media industry will figure out that they can fight piracy by making paying for something easier, faster and more convenient then obtaining a pirated copy. Or atleast close to as easy, fast and convenient..
Now back to figuring out what to call my 47:th Ancient Domains Of Mystery character...
--
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.ht ml [byu.edu]
$2000 laptop that isn't 6 months old = no go (Score:3, Interesting)
Er... (Score:2)
So, point number 1:
Is it just me, or is that not quite true [slashdot.org]?
Has anyone stopped to look at the requirements? (Score:2)
Processor: Maybe. They're looking at a 1 ghz machine. But dual-core processor? Mine plays HD fine, and it's only a 2.4 ghz amd64. In 32-bit and 64-bit mode. Think about it -- the only reason they're recommending dual-core is so that they can guarantee they have one mostly to themselves, so the other can run your spyware.
Graphics card: 256 megs seems a bit much. I mean, I have that, but let's think here -- what exactly would it use video RAM
Re: (Score:2)
Besides, this is "what's required", NOT "how to hack".
Re:Very irresponsible journalism (Score:4, Insightful)
There, fixed that for you.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't usually use this word, but BULLSHIT. I paid for the right to watch the movie - that's all. I did NOT pay to allow the producer to tell me how I could watch it (listen to it, read it, whatever). Ever heard of Fair Use? It means that once I've legally purchased it, it's mine to do with what I want, within the bounds of copyright law.
It's apologists like you that let these companies ge
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly!
Don't like the inane restrictions? Download, don't buy! Couldn't agree with you more!
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't license anything. I bought a DVD, which I now own. I can do whatever I want, so long as I don't break copyright law by redistributing copies or something. Even public performance restrictions are reasonable, but inviting 10 people over to see a movie is fine.
Re: (Score:2)
I never signed a license. Nor even saw one. And if that's true, I can get DVDs replaced for $3 or so. Afterall, I already own the license (which costs $15-20), I just need the little disc the content comes on.
Re: (Score:2)
Bullshit. Do you even know what copyright means? The ONLY right conferred to the copyright holder is the right to distrubute and make copies of the work.
It does NOT give them the right to tell me how to watch it. They don't get to put ANY restrictions on how I watch it - I could watch it naked in a bath of baked beans standing on my head and they can't say a damn thing about it, much less how much computer has
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't believe this is the case. It only works for software because of lousy court decisions holding that "copying" software to RAM in order to run it is a copyright violation unless you have a license, which is utter nonsense.
GPLv3 includes the no-DRM restriction, that's ostensibly legal
Because it only applies if you want to do something that is otherwise forbidden by standard copyright. No GPL version attempts to remo
Unethical, like printing presses? (Score:3, Insightful)
The DMCA is unethical because it protects an unethical monopoly business protection model, DRM, which unethically oversteps copyright law, which was already about 100 longer than the "limited time" monopoly protection of the constitution. The constitution attempted to balance a limited monopoly(14 years) with freedom of the press.
Suppressing freedom of the press/publishing is unethical on a large scale (current 120+x years) is unethical, as it limits speech, progress, m
Sombody mod this guy funny (Score:3, Funny)
This has got to be the funniest thing on
Re: (Score:2)
*I know, it's no fair choosing stupid Americans, but I'm trying to prove my point.
** I'm part of that group
I also support my local Congressman Rick Bouche
Re: (Score:2)
Sure there is, if you like HD.
So you're saying hard drives will cost 1/5 as much very soon?
DVD+-R is $0.06/gig or less (Ritek discs). Hard drives seem to bottom out around $0.29/gig right now.
Hard drives are subject to failure at any time. Optical media decays, but when stored properly should actually last a predictable amount of time.
You can have as
Re: (Score:2)