Is Your Laptop At Risk While Traveling? 413
Editorgirl35 writes "Here's an interesting story on DesignNews.com
With last week's announcement that the British government thwarted an alleged terrorist attack planned for flights from the U.K. to the U.S., news that travelers are required to check their laptops as baggage on some flights has raised a new level of panic as they try to figure out the best way to protect their laptops."
Baggage Check? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some laptops ( and most pdas ) can turn them selves on at a predetermined time.. Just estimate the time for maximum impact, laptop turns on and detonates the 'extra' battery that is made up of C4.. now you have a nice big hole in the bottom of the plane..
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:3, Interesting)
I would personally wait the extra hour to live under the illusion (your description, no
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
I'm sure Amtrak wouldn't mind...
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, you can blow up any building in the world but it's a lot easier to fly a Boeing 767 into a building than delivering explosives to a tightly secured area.
Just you try it. It's actually very hard.
Additionally, it is hard to match the power of a large plane crashing into a building.
So what. Shot placement beats power.
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:4, Insightful)
energy density of jet fuel [epa.gov]
fuel capacity of a 767 [google.com]
( 5.62 million btu/ barrel ) * 23980 gallons == 3.3 terajoules
And the kinetic energy of the aircraft (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
You lucky bastard. In Germany this does definitely not apply. And just you wait until those damn communist, fashist, hisbollaist, djihadist and whateverist terrorists start bombing your trains!
And while I'm at it, I live in Japan. Do you know of a convenient way to get from there to Germany by train in less than, say, two weeks?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The terrorist strategy for trains is for high amounts of damage, and trains in North America just aren't high capacity enough for today's terrorist on the go. Plus, it's not like North America doesn't have a long and colorful history of train robberies and hijackings: Arguably, America invented rail-based terrorism and knows how to deal with it better than most countries. W
Not high enough capacity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Simply put:-
- Board train with suitcase filled with explosives at any station - minimal security.
- Leave suitcase in suitable location and leave train. Here in the UK no one would touch it
- Use timer/gps to detonate bomb at suitable location. Suggestions given were:-
- As train passes suitable military base
- As train passes through suitable urban area
And even without the gps/timer aspect, consider what would happen if a bomb went of in a major rail station of your choice in a city of your choice during the rush hour. Remember 7/7/05? Those were baby bombs delivered by amateurs.Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, and everyone eating Sauerkraut and wearing Lederhosen must be a German, if you see someone wearing a ten-gallon hat and chew chewing gum it must be an American, Asian in school uniform an naked? It's definitely a Japanese.
To adjust your splendid world view, here's some food for thought http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_or
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:5, Funny)
Is this some new, more appealing take on Schrodinger's Cat?
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:4, Funny)
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Now, the KKK probably won't be blowing up airplanes SO THEY WON'T AFFECT YOU too much. Some of the other organizations listed have bombed airplanes and probably would like to again. The islamic terrorists are just a little irritated right now because they got one of their strongholds invaded.
How do you recognize a moslem to haul into the special line anyway? I know one with red hair and fre
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
True, but only by the classical definition of terrorism, which someone who commits any act with the intent to cause fear in a section of the population. On the other hand, by that same standard, our own government in the U.S. is a terrorist organization. Do you honestly think that "Threat Level Red" notices to the general public serve any useful purpose other than to scare them into submission?
No, if we are going to define terrorism in the modern day, you have to include the words "use of force" or simi
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the non-mulsim groups on the list has killed far more people than Al_Quaeda (tens of thousands), and they have carried out "240+" suicide bombings - but as they only killed funny coloured foreigners I suppose you think that does not count.
btw BOTH the terrorist groups that have bombed places I lived in (and came close to getting me more than once) used to raise money in the US
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Furthermore, the terrorists aren't idiots. All an Arabic terrorist would have to do to get around such a ban would be to wear jeans, work on their accent, use hair dye to lighten their hair a bit, and make out that they've been to a tanning salon.
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:4, Insightful)
If were honest about the way Palestinians have been treated we'd realise that we in the west are setting up a similar scenario on a larger scale and as a previous poster said in the end we'll have to talk to Hezbolah & Hamas, or if we hang on a while longer a more extreme group will be sure to come along.
And thus justify the extremists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh and flashback to last century anyone?
Re:And thus justify the extremists... (Score:5, Interesting)
Disturbing but your rewording is exactly what went on in the 70's in England. Even though my parents were not religous I got moved to a Catholic school in England instead of a public school after IRA attacks basically enraged locals to attack Irish people who had nothing what-so-ever to do with it.
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:4, Insightful)
Idiotic. Then all the terrorists just give up? There are plenty of Muslims who don't look like your stereotypical Arab. And there are plenty of Middle Eastern Jews and Christians who could supply ID, or have it stolen from them. There are plenty of US citizens who are Muslim, it would be interesting to try to get a ban on their travelling through court. Not to mention the huge backlash the US would suffer.
Think of it like spam. A couple of years ago, you were getting lots of spam with the word "Viagra" in it. Simple. Filter out all messages with the word "Viagra". Two weeks later, you start to get spam about "V1agra", "V;agra", "Viiagra"....
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's stop just a minute...
Let's also leave aside that the above is simply wrong as a matter of fact...
Do you really think that doing something 'in the name of Islam' (or Christianity, or the Free Software Foundation, etc) automatically makes you a Muslim (or Christian, or Free Software advocate)?
I don't know where you stand on the FSF, but assuming you are broadly sympathetic to its aims, how would you feel if I suddenly started blowing up planes 'in the name of the FSF'?
Let's be rational about this. Anyone can claim to be associated with a particular movement or organisation. Whether you actually are can only be decided from whether your actions are in keeping with that organisation's goals.
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Yeah, when someone makes a blanket absolute claim, heaven forbid someone point out a counter-example. And I'm not sure how they are any more "lone wolves" than muslim terrorists.
And just over one decade, I make it. I bet you people will still be citing 9/11 as an example of "Islamic terrorism" for long after 2012.
In every thread like this there is some academic robot defending that with that obsolete PC attitude
And in every threa
Re:Soln: Profile passengers, or go on pretending. (Score:4, Informative)
Actually the bulk of the funding for the IRA did come from the US...
Al.Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Oh, even better, an Ahmed can check in the iBook, then not even show up for the flight! And 4 hour battery uptime should cover the delays.
Why does Apple help terrorists?
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
And in that 20 minutes the bag is either not-loaded, or unloaded.
It is a violation of FAA rules to fly with the baggage.
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
I don't remember them ever delaying a flight by more than 20 minutes to wait up on no-shows.
Yes, they really would delay the flight if they had to to find the bag. I think the reason you never have noticed a delay for a no show is because you may not have noticed but they usually wait to load the luggage until people start boarding. I do not know exactly how the process works but since the bags all ha
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
You have to worry about two kinds of security: physical protection from damage and theft deterence. For both functions I recomend using multiple layers. Those those free Priority Mail [usps.com]
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:2)
This most likely would not work since most airports (100% in the US) use explosive detection systems such as CTX scanners like the following: http://www.gesecurity.com/portal/site/GESecurity/m enuitem.f76d98ccce4cabed5efa421766030730?selectedI D=2728&seriesyn=true [gesecurity.com]
They do have false positives but I would much rather have some false
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:3, Interesting)
A carefully constructed Lithium Ion battery ought to be enough to cause serious damage and look like an accident.
I give it 6 months before Laptops with batteries are entirely banned.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd give it six months before LiPo and LiIon batteries are banned for air shipment or cargo hold carriage. In the belly of a plane, they can do a lot of damage. In the passenger compartment, it is just a fire which can be extinguished... but not with the fire extinguishers that are carried on airplanes, which is the real problem.
Re:Baggage Check? (Score:5, Funny)
No, I'm not a terrorist... (Score:4, Interesting)
The parent poster mentioned sneaking C4 in a laptop battery. I was wondering the same thing about a hard drive. When you think about it, both are small, but certainly have enough volume to put explosives inside of the casing that would cause a very significant detonation onboard an airplane. And would screeners really see that on their scanners? I'd imagine that to the lazy eye, it would just be another object like any other inside a laptop. I doubt most screeners would be particular about looking for the platters inside a hard drive, let alone know that a hard drive is a necessary part of a laptop. I'm sure that if you were to hand these explosive laptops to 20 terrorists, at least one would get through, and it only takes one. I've gone on a number of domestic and international flights, and the laptop is a carry-on object. I've never seen any bomb-sniffing dogs sniff my carry-on luggage, so I think the TSA are the only checkpoint for an attack such as this.
Now, I've never seen all of what those modern x-ray scanners are able to detect, so if there's anybody with knowledge on the subject, I'd sure appreciate an explination of whether or not this is feasable.
Oh, and for anybody who wants to try and accuse me of aiding terrorists, I get my information from the six-o'clock news. They give me all these great ideas each and every day on how to cause devistation to America (blow up the Hoover Dam, San Fransisco bridge, Alaska Oil pipeline, the Lincoln tunnel
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Would suck if you had a dodgy battery.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, and it still doesn't prevent you from concealing a bomb in a second or spare battery, like the original poster suggested. Or, if you were really ambitious, you could take out 1/2 the cells in the battery and replace them with explosives. The laptop would still turn on, and your explosives would be easily concealed.
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One eBay Powerseller with more than twelve thousand happy customers was the wife of a Heathrow baggage handler.
Took them 2 1/2 years to find out.
If a dell laptop exploded on a plane... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:If a dell laptop exploded on a plane... (Score:5, Funny)
Check your laptop? (Score:4, Interesting)
10 minutes * 60 passengers (Score:5, Insightful)
extra service (Score:2)
Better have a very good case when the inspector's final task is to check it in for you. Don't bother tipping, it will make them angry.
How about as hand-luggage? (Score:5, Informative)
by 2010... (Score:5, Funny)
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Yet another reason to limit the weight of passengers.
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Not so chic, but equality protective (Score:5, Interesting)
The reality is that you don't want attention on your bag, as it might be stolen. I just recommended a person
to take the Styrofoam that came with the laptop to get to Heathrow. At least the laptop arrived in a working
condition.
I think the optimal solution is to find something that looks like regular luggage. Perhaps buying a cheap, beaten up luggage bag (garage sale?) to put the computer inside. Use duct tape and dirt for extra effect, and geek chicness.
Re:Not so chic, but equality protective (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Not so chic, but equality protective (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that tip was aimed more at not having stuff ripped off from your vehicle, etc., now that I think about it. Honestly, I think I were to travel far with my camera gear, I'd probably put it all in a Pelican and FedEx it ahead of myself. I just don't trust the checked baggage these days. Not because of the handling (those cases are tough)
If the ban persisted, business would suffer (Score:5, Insightful)
While a permanent laptop ban would have a serious impact on certain types of businesses and travellers, it would have an even more serious impact on the airlines when their primary client base was forced to use charter aircraft.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I am not opposed by the new regulations at all! (Score:2, Funny)
Long Lines (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Long Lines (Score:5, Insightful)
The goal is to blow up symbols to inspire fear in the populace by use of mass media. There have been bombs set in discos and the past, but those didn't effect public behavior much at all, people kept on dancin.
Re:Long Lines (Score:4, Insightful)
Terrorism gets media attention far out of proportion to its real impact - the number of people terrorist kill is far fewer than cars kill.
The best thing to do is to ignore terrorism [pietersz.co.uk].
Re:Long Lines (Score:2)
Fixed.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"nothing" == "The Laws of Physics"
Small ammounts of exploives are of great concern only in confined spaces (being pressurized helps, too). In a nice wide open space, as in airport terminals, much of the force of the blast will go upwards and outwards torwards the ceiling, and be harmlessly dissapated over that distance.
To harm numbers of people in open spaces, you need serious ammounts of exp
Carry-On or Not At All (Score:5, Insightful)
Fortunately I don't travel by air very often. And, as has been pointed out by others, the laptop ban has been lifted (wealthier, more powerful people than I have likely already informed the appropriate scaremongers what a losing proposition this was). Even so, there's no way I'm putting a laptop through checked baggage. Luggage gets lost. Luggage gets tossed around very roughly. And items are known to go "missing" from luggage.
No. Not my laptop. It stays with me, or it stays home.
Schwab
Re:Carry-On or Not At All (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Carry-On or Not At All (Score:5, Insightful)
Wise words. I wish more people would live by them
I would find this whole airport security thing rather amusing, if it weren't such a pain in the tuckus. I think Bruce Schneier summed it up rather nicely in his latest Crypto-gram [schneier.com] when he characterised all these draconian restrictions as 'Security Theatre' - something that looks like security to those who don't know any better, but ultimately has no real effect.
He also points out that if we're to learn anything from this event, it's that classical police/intelligence operations work. Authorities knew about the would-be bombers well in advance, they learned as much as they could about the cell, then shut it down before it could do damage. Biometric IDs, airport baggage checks, no-fly lists and other kinds of security theatre contributed nothing whatsoever to the outcome.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I tend to agree. Blocking off one small avenue of attack doesn't really do much to improve security when there are so many possi
My laptop has liquid fuel cells... (Score:2)
Physical damage (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
They had these big wheeled carts to carry the baggage to the planes, and the baggage was stacked on 2 levels of the cart. I saw the baggage handler stand on top of the cart, and throw a bag down to the concrete tarmack, a drop that I estimated at 10 feet (physics majors, get out your slide rules).
Of course I wouldn't check my laptop, but I had gotten these really neat pl
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Ship it ahead (Score:5, Informative)
I always travel with carry-on only. Since 9-11, I won't even bother trying to bring samples.
The airport experience is simply the worst part of traveling.
Pick a carrier any carrier (UPS, FedEX, DHL, etc.) and ship what you need to your hotel.
As long as you pack it well (and insure it, of course) it will be waiting for you in your room when you arrive.
Trust me, it seems like a lot of extra trouble at first, but its worth it.
Not worried about damage, but theft... (Score:5, Insightful)
I do have a friend that works on the ramp, as it's called, stowing and retrieving bags from aircraft. He told me that theft isn't a problem domestically because they're watched so carefully with video cameras and security, but most importantly they just don't have the time or opportunity to pull someone's bag aside and rifle through it. He said international flights are a different story as bags are checked hours before the flight actually leaves, but he still doesn't think it's a big problem. I won't take my chances though and will continue to carry my digital/video camera and laptop onboard.
Re:Not worried about damage, but theft... (Score:4, Insightful)
I had a Palm Tunsgten PDA and an Apple iBook (old G3 blueberry model) stolen out of my luggage at La Guardia. Only reason I put it in there was because it was broken. I had also just bought a new iPod (thanksfully I carried it with me) but the stupid fucks stole all the iPod cables and dock, which I'm sure were worthless to them.
At the end of the day I was out the Palm PDA and the iPod stuff, and the laptop was probably worth something. Then of course, the airline folded. I suspect the only reason I lost the PDA was because the (broken) laptop was in there so the thieves decided to look harder, and of course stole the iPod power cables...
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, EVER put anything of any value in your luggage!!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
>DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, EVER put anything of any value in your luggage!!
If you can prove that you own it, and you can prove the purchase price, there is a straightforward way to
get direct compensation for losses due to airport security. It works, I've done it. In fact, it works surprisingly well, because it falls in the category of "allowing a functionary to perform his function."
There is a form -- I'm sorry, but my copy is deep in the piles of papers on my desk -- which the TSA manager will give you
Re: TSA stealing from luggage (Score:4, Insightful)
TSA Under Fire for Rising Theft by Baggage Screeners [go.com]
"It's a huge security threat," said aviation industry consultant Michael Boyd. "If we've got the kind of people who would steal things out of bags, we're not sure if we have people on the job who will put things into bags. And obviously we don't have enough scrutiny of the bags once they're checked. It's huge."
Butane powered batteries (Score:2)
As someone who travels to Latin America... (Score:5, Insightful)
Theft occurs often enough in the U.S. to make me at the very least give serious pause... in Latin America? In Argentina, for example, a country where you have almost no hope of receiving anything more than a disposable camera in the mail, there is NO way I would entrust my laptop to their baggage handlers, not to mention my camera, iPod, etc.
It looks like the security is being toned down a little bit now, and I hope and pray it stays at the present level.
I would also appreciate it if people would stop planning to blow up airplanes - can y'all just knock that off, please? Thanks, guys.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
shouldn't that be.. (Score:5, Informative)
With last week's announcement that the British government thwarted an alleged terrorist attack planned for flights from the U.K. to the U.S
With last week's announcement that the British government allegedly thwarted a terrorist attack planned for flights from the U.K. to the U.S
It's simple - I don't use UK airports anymore (Score:5, Informative)
I now use City Airport [londoncityairport.com] as much as possible, but they only provide short haul service into the continent.
For long haul flights I now Eurostar to Paris or Amsterdam where I pick up a connecting flight.
The fundamental problem is BAA, the airport operator, has declined to add staff to perform the required searches manually, thus protecting their profits. And the airlines are just as bad, attempting to maintain the same flight schedules to preserve revenue.
So the passengers are caught in the middle, and we're expected to strip down to our underwear and file, arms crossed above our heads, gratefully onto to the waiting aircraft.
Not me, and many like me. Business class travelers are avoiding this circus in droves.
We're all either using smaller airports that were not impacted like Heathrow / Gatwick or, if a long flight is needed (I'm off to Cairo in two weeks), we're taking the train to Paris or Amsterdam, and picking up a connecting flight from there.
None of the continental airports are doing this crap. None of the Asian airports are doing this crap. Even the US isn't going this far.
Make no mistake about it - this is all about protecting profits. Nothing more.
TSA approved locks (Score:3, Informative)
These locks have a combo that you know and a special key that the TSA has
that can open it too -- "for security".
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TSA+lock&hl=e
Re:Screw laptops (Score:2)
And before you say business people don't play games I would like to point out that I am, in fact, a business person (in the general definition of that term). We don't spend our free time looking at spreadsheets you know
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Silly (Score:5, Interesting)
Presentations are meant to impress somebody. People dont hop onto a jet and fly around the world to impress their underlings. If you cant spend $1k on a laptop, and $1k on a projector, my company wont be providing what you cant afford, and wont be doing business with you.
Truly a troll post (Score:3, Insightful)
a) How many of us don't have or want a PDA? Answer: Lots
b) Even if we did have a PDA we'd still need the laptop in order to either work on when we get to our work destination, or, in my case, use as a portable entertainment unit for watching movies etc. when at my travel destination, and also to be able to offload and edit photos I've taken while out and about.
Urgh, what a post!
Oh really? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Travelling with Electronics (Score:2)
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Obviously the original poster who mentioned this just has an axe to grind and will stop at nothing to make a point.
It's like someone saying "Hitler lived on Earth and George Bush lives on Earth! George Bush must be evil!" That st
Re:Would the airline insurance cover it? (Score:2)
Re:Would the airline insurance cover it? (Score:3, Insightful)
No airline is going to accept any liability on electronic products like iPods, laptops and cameras because they know they do not handle baggage carefully and it would cost them a fortune.
Re:Would the airline insurance cover it? (Score:4, Interesting)
The airline didn't give a shit and wouldn't help us- they said TSA handles all baggage problems now. Well, you can imagine how well TSA (a government agency) handles this. It is just like if something breaks while a professional mover is moving your stuff. On paper you are covered, but in reality they make it so incredibly difficult to file a claim and prove damage that it realistically isn't even possible.
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