New Super-sized Customer Database for Amazon? 131
dtjohnson writes "Amazon.com has applied for a patent to create
an online customer database which would allegedly contain
'massive amounts of intimate information about its millions of
shoppers,
including their religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity and
income.' From the article: "The database, which would
combine information disclosed voluntarily by
customers with facts gleaned from public databases, conceivably would
give Amazon a larger or more detailed profile of its customers than any
other retailer. Does this cross the privacy line or is it just
reasonable data gathering to make retail sales more responsive to
customer needs?"
Nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me get that right: If I have nothing to do with Amazon then no-one else can do the same thing? Looks like a small price to pay.
Funny, but no (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Funny, but no (Score:5, Insightful)
They already asked Yahoo and Google for the contents of their databases. Yahoo (and maybe some others) said Yes. I do not know if Amazon would go the same way - probably yes - but if I avoid them then this should mean that no-one else can pull that stunt.
If Amazon were to lay down cast iron guarantees that they would only use this patent defensively - they said they are some years away from implementing such a database - then I would take them off my blacklist.
Re:Funny, but no (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Let's wait and see... (Score:2)
I can guarantee you that if this is anything BUT defensive, any transactions between Amazon and I will never see the light of day. Funny thing is...I've held out this long because of the rediculous "one-click: patent that they really believe is innovative. Amazon's absence from my shopping list hasn't mattered- AT ALL. Yes folks, there is life beyond Amazon.
Re:Nice (Score:2)
Re:Nice (Score:5, Interesting)
"Nothing (no one) will stop Amazon from sharing (selling) its data with other companies."
Actually, they better not try this with their Canadian partnerss, or they'll find the backlash to be vicious. Including expensive audits and damages paid to anyone whose info has been collected.
YOu're simply not allowed to collect and hold information that has nothing to do with the actual transactions with your customers. And you're not allowed to collect information, beyond name, address, and telephone number, for anyone who isn't a customer. "Data mining" and collecting for irrelevant stuff such as sexual orientation has been illegal up here since January of 2004.
Even information that was collected with yur consent can't be "re-used" for any other purpose.
Also, they have to supply anyone who asks with a copy of their file. Could be expensive and embarrassing for Amazon.
As for prior art, here in Canada HRDC (a gov't agency) did this - a HUGE database with all sorts of information - and was forced to drop it when 29,000 Quebecers sent in requests for their files in one week as a protest. Compliance costs $$$$.
If Amazon wants to lose their contract with Canada Post, let them go ahead with this.
Re:Nice (Score:2)
Same in the EU (Score:2)
Bear in mind that while individual retailers hold information on your purchases with them your bank has the data on all your purchases with everybody you ever signed a cheque or credit card slip to.
Re:Same in the EU (Score:2)
The bank doesn't have ALL the data for purchases made by cheque - just the payee and the amount. They can't even say it was for purchases you made - perhaps you were paying someone else's bill as a favour.
Also, as of January 2004, the bank can't be notified as to the individual items purchased - just the customer account, retail account, time, date, and the amount billed.
The retailer is allowed to keep records of exactly what was purchased, in case of customer complaint, warranty service, etc., and bec
Re:Nice (Score:1)
Funny, but no again (Score:2)
All your (data)base belong to us.
It Certainly Does (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It Certainly Does (Score:5, Interesting)
While there are many "techie" people like greatcelerystalk who know what they want, we have to keep in mind that Amazon is selling to the entire spectrum. My mom, new to computers this year, finds comfort in the Amazon experience. It's an entire shopping mall--just what women love (yes, I am generalizing). So shoppers who know what they are looking for, or are simply buying on price, may not use the recommendations, I would suspect that a significant, if not majority of the population may be enticed to buy something. I admit to having purchased several books that were recommended to me.
Now, the more significant issue revolves around the depth of the information Amazon is amassing on you and me. Sure, you can learn just as much about me from my blog [davidcatalano.com] or slashdot journal [slashdot.org], but that's my choice. I recognize that Amazon has stated "opt-in" information. But when was the last time you read a EULA or the Privacy Policy page for NewEgg? You can be opted-in to just about anything. Then, personal private data is stored, waiting to be hacked into or. Or better yet, published [slashdot.org] in [techcrunch.com] the [google.com] name [informationweek.com] of [techtarget.com] research [slashdot.org]!
Ultimately, this trend will not stop. Twenty years ago, had people known the level of personal information that we would be storing today, they would have had the same reactionary quivering that we feel today. It's simply the unstoppable progression of technology integration into human life.
Re:It Certainly Does (Score:1)
The "entire spectrum" compromises anyone that can pay, including human right abusers.
Re:It Certainly Does (Score:2)
How so? By collating data that either you've given them directly, or is publicly available from elsewhere? I see no privacy concerns there. It's nothing that anyone else couldn't already do. Indeed, it's the sort of thing that private detectives do on a regular basis. And for that matter, IT security consultants.
No, privacy is the least of my concerns here. The real issue is that they think it's patentable. Err... correlating data from multiple sources. Because obviou
Re:It Certainly Does (Score:2, Insightful)
By collating data that either you've given them directly, or is publicly available from elsewhere?
Oddly, if I were to do the same thing with say FBI agents, that wouldn't go over so well, would it?
Re:It Certainly Does (Score:1)
Re:It Certainly Does (Score:2)
plenty of prior art (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:plenty of prior art (Score:2)
Re:plenty of prior art (Score:1)
Abuse of the patent system is why I don't shop at Amazon.
Re:plenty of prior art (Score:2, Insightful)
http://news.com.com/Probing+IBMs+Nazi+connection/
Let's log Jeff Bezos' IP (Score:1)
Re:Let's log Jeff Bezos' IP (Score:1)
(Yes, that's really him)
to think if they have a leak like AOL did... (Score:1)
Re:to think if they have a leak like AOL did... (Score:2, Funny)
I, for one (Score:5, Funny)
Death by snu-snu!
Re:I, for one (Score:2)
Does this cross the privacy line ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does this cross the privacy line ? (Score:2)
Re:Does this cross the privacy line ? (Score:2)
does too
Re:Invasion of privacy (Score:5, Insightful)
As the recent AOL release of search queries has shown, anonymizing the user name to an random id doesn't really help a thing to keep the user identity anonymous, given a reasonable large amount of data, you can track the user based on its submitted queries.
The only real solution I see would be to forbit storage of personal data on server side and thus forcing Amazon and Co. to store it on the client side instead, so that the user is in control over what the other end knows about him and Amazon and Co. can't simply just store whatever the user submitted. This is the only way I see how the user could both stay anonymous (just delete client side data) as well as allow Amazon and Co. implement features based on users past actions.
Just what we need in the day like this (Score:2)
In context... (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of Slashdot readers (Score:2)
So they have nothing to fear.
The rest of the world should expect a far better shopping experience from Amazon because they are going to know when to pitch the gay-pride book vs. the religious tome. This undoubtably will result is significantly better profits for Amazon and woul
Re:Most of Slashdot readers (Score:5, Insightful)
What about people who read both? Seriously, why is there this assumption that owning and reading a book somehow means you believe and accept the ideas presented therein? Some people actually like to read around and get a deep understanding of a lot of different ideas. Even if you disagree with something, you should at least understand it well instead of relying on propaganda.
Which brings me to my next point...
We might have a 20 year pause before the patent expires.
It's not a patent, it is only an application, so there is nothing that has to expire. This rather obvious concept has been explained a bazillion times on Slashdot, but almost no one posting under this article seems to understand it. You can apply for any stupid damn thing you want. Even, say, a resurrection burial tomb [uspto.gov].
What I think would make for a great Backslash section is revisitting these old applications that give Slashdotters apoplectic fits. See if a patent is granted or if it is ultimately is abandoned. If it is granted, see how narrow or how broad the actual patent protection is. Then, there would be more informed bitching and complaining than the usual infantile "P@+3n+s are teh suxx0rs! W00+! W00+!"
Yeah, right... (Score:2)
Great stuff (Score:3, Informative)
Business Models... (Score:3, Interesting)
So going to write the open-source algorithm(s) for this?
Re:Business Models... (Score:2)
F Amazon! (Score:1)
Fight corporate facism with fake info!!!!!!
(Except for my cc number, of course. )
Re:F Amazon! (Score:4, Funny)
-
Don't blame me if your humour is insufficient.
Re:F Amazon! (Score:2)
And if you use disposable credit card numbers [com.com], then even that will be useless to them after your purchase.
Re:F Amazon! (Score:2)
The problem is that most geeks are just consumer whores like everybody else, and often worse. As long as you can pinch those precious pennies, it really doesn't matter what the big companies do, huh? Just keep giving them your money for more worthless Chinese plastic trinkets. Smart. Real smart.
Or just don't shop there. (Score:2)
Plus, I get free shipping there...and they don't spam my inbox with 'reccomendations'.
This is yet another attack by business (Score:2, Insightful)
In EU, a private company can not ask which religion a person has. It is illegal and
most Europeans consider it a serious breach of privacy open to abuse.
As a matter of fact, in several EU states you are may deduct from the tax money paid to
a church. But many Jews does not do this because of Europe and the rest of the world's
long history of pogroms and persecutions[1]: similar registers was used to round up Jews
to murder. Europeans are aware of this, but A
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:1, Troll)
Bullshit. Kindly produce evidence and point at the law preventing me or any other private party from asking you what your religion is.
BTW: What religion are you? Now go sue me!
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:1)
>> Bullshit. Kindly produce evidence and point at the law preventing me or any other private party from asking you what your
>> religion is.
>> BTW: What religion are you? Now go sue me!
You sure must be an American exposed to some quality Kansas public education.
I wrote "In EU", and far as I know EU is not part of USA.
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:2)
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:1)
Most Europeans, unless they watch too many US movies and television series,
would not use the phrase "So sue me!". Frivoulous and harassing law suits,
combined with limits upon damages awarded, along with loosers pays all expenses
sure curbs much of those abuses.
> Will you now please answer the question, oh Clever One?
I will not deprive you of understanding something by searching for it
yourself. There is Wikipedia and Google for your perusals. W
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:1)
> combined with limits upon damages awarded, along with loosers pays all expenses
> sure curbs much of those abuses.
Shit should learn to read before presing the submit button: Of course,
"Frivoulous and harassing law suits" are frowned upon in EU.
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:2)
OMG did I just offend your delicate sensitivity? Maybe we should make a law against this. Maybe we could do one better and curb the problem at the source: yeah let's just introduce thought crime and be done with it.
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:1)
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:2)
Re:This is yet another attack by business (Score:3, Informative)
I assume you're thinking about an employment situation. They can ask you if it is directly relevant to the job.
Are Humans Necessary in the Modern World? (Score:1)
Put a couple of part time programmers on the project, tie it in with my Google search history and the gov't's various Total Information Awareness databases and you hardly need me in the loop anymore.
So my question is (Score:3)
Re:So my question is (Score:3, Interesting)
Certainly, it recommends some _really_ odd stuff from time to time...
Reminds me of when Tivo first started (Score:2)
Re:So my question is (Score:2)
Gift Organizer [amazon.com]
But, I don't know if it ties back into recomendations yet.
Illegal. (Score:5, Interesting)
Based only on the blurb, this database would almost certainly be completely illegal within the EU (Directive 95/46/EG, unless it's obsolete).
Re:Illegal. (Score:2)
Put not your faith in European Institutions, for they can be subverted.
R~ Illegal (Score:1)
Both the EU directive and preceding convention attempt(ed) to reflect some breadth by catering for diversity, but narrowly applied interpretations together with the wider out-of-the-box implementations/application have demonstrably served to formalize more constrained images of the 'best' route to follow.
If there is nothing to worry about provided any given algorithmic paramet
Thankfully... (Score:2)
Re:Thankfully... (Score:3, Funny)
I would hope so . . . that's definately the kind of shopping info that I'd want to keep to myself!
In Germany this kind of Information is forbidden (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:In Germany this kind of Information is forbidde (Score:2)
Re:In Germany this kind of Information is forbidde (Score:2)
Re:In Germany this kind of Information is forbidde (Score:2)
Let's start with P2P software.
In cases like this, there is no practical line. (Score:5, Insightful)
They're using data which was voluntarily given to them by customers, and data which is publicly available on the web. If you really expect a company to not use any of this type of information for marketing purposes, you're being exceptionally naive.
The information is available, is completely legal to use, and some of it was even voluntarily given directly to Amazon by it's customers. The only thing which could ever prevent anything like this from happening in a case like this or at least limit it's use, would be to pass new laws limiting the usage of such information. Or, just don't voluntarily give information to companies if you don't want them to use it to market to you.
Prior art? (Score:2)
Re:Prior art? (Score:2)
Last I checked, the census doesn't care about your sexual orientation. Not even sure it's legal for them to ask that question, actually.
Who would be stupid enough to... (Score:1)
Is the article actually FUD? (Score:1)
As a confi
Is it just me.... (Score:1)
So long as it's voluntary.... (Score:1)
{ RANT #1
Let them infer what they like, when I buy a book for someone else, and they find that someone who buys books on sailing also buys books on gardening, let the correlate away.
And, in case any one from Amazon bothers to read slashdot, I really don't think I've bought much if anything suggested by their web site. I go to Amazon and use the search function. REALLY I do know what I am looking for right now m
The truth of the matter is... (Score:2)
There's a clear line between using data to advertise to a person more efficently, and using that same data to persecute, or even blackmail that same person. What one person trusts with Amazon they wouldn't trust the government with, and with good reason.
Unfortunately, since the government is so corrupt these days, you can't trust anyone with the data now, since it's just a subpeona away from being in the hands of the gov
Come on (Score:1)
US/EU/UK Data Protection Laws (Score:2)
Not that the UK's is perfect, but its better than the Nothing in the US.
Those damn "hackers" (Score:1)
Or dentists ... or auto mechanics ... or accountants ...
The list is endless.
It shouldn't surprise me, but sure bugs me that everytime some big corporation decides they need to patent a new way of tracking and selling (or "accidentally" releasing to the world at large) information most (?) would prefer to keep private, the corporate media finds a way to make it sound
Doesn't the NSA have prior art? (Score:2)
Re:Doesn't the NSA have prior art? (Score:1)
Re:Doesn't the NSA have prior art? (Score:2)
There have been numerous stories over the past 12 months or so about how the government is compiling data from publicly available databases (much like Amazon claims to have invented).
Retail sales more responsive (Score:2)
Does this cross the privacy line or is it just reasonable data gathering to make retail sales more responsive to customer needs?
Companies don't gather personal data for no reason. They have to spend resources to collect and handle this information, and unless they're getting some kind of return on that investment it would be a dumb thing for them to do.
How do they get a return on investment? By selling more stuff.
So yes: the company will use this information to be more responsiive to customer needs.
CIA? (Score:1)
No data gathering is reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No data gathering is reasonable (Score:1, Informative)
So give them bullshit information. If you pay full price instead of taking a 10 to 25% discount, it goes straigh to their bottom line. Your cash, your call.
At Safeway, I was once unable to come up with the card and my phoone number came up dry. (I think I originally put it in before my area code got changed.) So the clerk grabs one off the counter and says, "Use this one."
Anyway, they get my name off my CC, but if I pay cash,
Re:No data gathering is reasonable (Score:2)
Thats not to say that they couldn't cross reference it with creidt or debit crds if they really wanted to, but the stupid card itself required no information.
Better work (Score:1)
And? (Score:2)
Atheist, straight, caucasian, £30-50k. What's so scary about that?
Amazon's consumer profiling back in 1999 (Score:1)
"Customers who bought titles by Johann Sebastian Bach also bought titles by these artists:
Secret Garden
Andrea Bocelli
Andreas Vollenweider
Yanni
The Village People"
Couple of extra data points would not hurt...
why not screw with them? (Score:2)
Then search for books on facisim, or sexual perversion, or how to make bombs, or something.
If enough people did it, their database would be useless.
voluntary information? (Score:1)
Obsolete fear (Score:2)
Hello split personality! (Score:2)
Perhaps it is unfortunate that my better half and I use the same Amazon.com account....
Re:How the hell can you patent a damn database? (Score:1)
Also, it is a patent application, not a patent yet.
It will also probably be a convoluted document of several pages, which will contain some IMO patent-worthy idea hidden in claim 23 or so, which under the US patent system makes the entire convolutus effectively an applicable patent.