Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year 147
Gamespot is carrying the news that Microsoft is aiming to sell 13 to 15 Million consoles by June of next year. The story shows good and bad news for the company; While they've already sold 5 Million units, the Home Entertainment division lost about $1.2 billion for the last year. From the article: "Will Microsoft make its goal in the face of not one, but two rival next-gen console launches this fall? That remains to be determined, but the console will have the advantage of being cheaper than the Sony PlayStation 3 and having a bigger game library than the Nintendo Wii. The upcoming 12 months will also see several exclusive 'system seller' titles be released for the 360, including Epic Games' Gears of War, which is tentatively due this holiday season." Kotaku points out that, to sweeten the pot, a new bundle pack may be in the offing for the system.
Isn't that par for the course? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Isn't that par for the course? (Score:3, Funny)
thought that the XBox division lose a billion dollars every year, and always have?
Yeah, but they make it up in volume.
Re:Isn't that par for the course? (Score:4, Interesting)
A Toys R Us Canada employee
Canadian jokes aside, I'm somewhat skeptical.
No problem (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, sold? Well, that could be more of a problem.
Re:No problem (Score:1, Troll)
Re:No problem (Score:2)
Re:No problem (Score:2)
Re:No problem (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft sells Xbox 360's to stores. Thus, they've sold every one they ship. Most companies cite this metric, since it's the most direct relevant measurement they can get their hands on. (As opposed to calling up the store chains, etc.)
Of course, fan-bots will say: "They shipped 5 million, but only sold 1 million!" That is a highly unlikely scenario, however. I mean, if you ran some national department store chain, and you had stacks of a product lying around, why would you order more? The only real danger of overstock is right when a product launches.
So, while there is a number lag between when MS ships a unit and when it arrives in the hands of a consumer, it is not a statistical majority. If MS stops releasing new "X million boxes shipped!" statements, then you'll know they're in trouble. Otherwise, if they later announce "7 million boxes shipped", then it's reasonably safe to assume that at least 5 million have been purchased by end users.
Re:No problem (Score:4, Informative)
Re:No problem (Score:2)
That's why I didn't mention buyback contracts -- there still isn't motivation for retailers to over-order.
Re:No problem (Score:1)
Re:No problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Shipped = Sold
Riiiiight.
Ask Microsoft how many units they shipped to Japan. And guess how many units have SOLD in japan. Nice try.
Re:No problem (Score:2)
Sorry, fan-boi, but MS is quoting the relevant figure here, much as you'd like to displarage it.
Re:No problem (Score:2)
Doesn't Microsoft make money with selling games? Wouldn't it help if the console are actually sold to people interested in buying games instead of being stuffed in some warehouse? And beside, isn't Microsoft selling the consoles at a loss? So every console they 'sell' loses them money, unless they can make it back with games... just a thought.
Re:No problem (Score:2)
As far a MS is concerned, those *are* sales. The retailer may or may not actually hand the product off to a customer, but Microsoft doesn't benefit from that subsequent retail transaction.
What the hell are you talking about they don't benefit? You MUST be kiddin' me? If MS were to "ship" 5million, but only sell 1million, you don't think it'll have ANY ramifications on MS' gaming business?! Third party developers want to know how many people actually have the console. They can care less how many consoles MS
Re:No problem (Score:2)
You ask "B-b-but, what about third party developers? What about games?" Again, you're looking at the question wrong. The question of how many consoles sell is only tangentially of interest to Microsoft any more. The question that drive third party developers is not "how many consoles will sell to consumers", but "will enough consoles eventually sell to consumers to make it worth developing games," and, as we've already seen, the answer to that is "yes"
Re:No problem (Score:2)
Nope. MS does not benefit from the subsequent sale.
Right, cuz things like this [kotaku.com] looks oh so good on MS.
Re:No problem (Score:2)
Veering OT (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, most large retailers have corporate buyers with certain authority what to buy, etc. as well as local buyers with some authority to buy and stock items particular to that given store. It is not at all unheard of, however unfortunate it might seem, that a corporate buyer is buying on a contract, purchase X number of units of some widget, sends a percentage of them to each store, even though some stores have pallets of them sitting in the back wasting space. That's when those "pre-authorized" RMAs start coming in handy.
It is also common to have store FOO returning product while store BAR is buying more even though it is often less expensive to simply stock transfer products from FOO to BAR. A lot of it depends on the corporate structure and culture, the accounting setup, operating procedures, etc., and all that other corporate crap. I've seen managers of various levels refuse to ship stock from their store to another, even though they don't need it, the other store does, and there is nothing technically forbidding them from doing so...due to departmental and budgetary boundary lines (ie., some corporate structures, while looking good on paper, tend to create fiefdoms, enhance corporate politics, and all that jazz). Just remember: retailers aren't all perfectly oiled machines or even that adeptly managed. Just like anything else where people are involved. Nobody's perfect and it shows up more when there's less nobody around, if you catch my drift.
Re:No problem (Score:1, Insightful)
It is a pretty good indication of just how bad a console is doing in the market if one of its fanboys is furiously making the old "Shipped = Sold" rationalization.
Sorry fanboy, Japan, Europe, and the US all have reliable console hardware sales tracking firms that every console developers has relied on for a very long time.
The 360 is sitting just barely above three million consoles sold - with a little more than a million and a half consoles in the process of being shipped to retailers(US
Re:No problem (Score:1)
Also lets not forget what I believe other
Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year (Score:1, Troll)
Smaller library (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be realistic here. The Wii will have Gamecube backwards compatibility, as well as the reported classic system emulations giving it a large library right from the get go. I'm sure the PS3 will also have a decent level of backwards compatibility as well. Backwards compatibility for the Xbox360 has been extremely hit-and-miss -- Dubious at best, certainly over-hyped, which forces Microsoft to rely on building new expensive titles for their new system. I predict their 15 million units prediction is also over-hyped.
Re:Smaller library (Score:3, Informative)
Based on what? There's lots [xbox.com] compatibile including virtually all the AAA titles. Sure they're missing a few I'd like to play again (Beyond Good and Evil and Soul Calibur) but it's a pretty big list. And it's not like the new system's short of games, esp. if you count Live Arcade.
Re:Smaller library (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't that part of the problem? Its nice to have support for AAA titels, but most people already have played them over and over again and there is a good chance that those AAA titles will get a successor sooner or later anyway, so at least for me I don't really consider AAA titles that important, at least not really more important then the rest and looking at that list Yager, Shenmue, Panzer Dragon, Psychonauts, BrokenSword, Fahrenheit, Advent Rising, Riddik, X-Men Legends 1 and 2, TimeSplitters2 and 3 all not listed, all quite good games, all games I own. So while the backward compability might be better then nothing, it is *FAR* away from being an XBox1 replacemet, since the fraction of games that work is still quite small compared to those games that are on the market.
What makes things even worse is that Microsoft doesn't have offer any way to bundle XBox360 binaries with newly released XBox1 games, meaning even when a new XBox1 game is released there is nothing the developers can do to get XBox360 compability out of the box, it all depends on Microsoft to provide a patch or maybe not depending on the gamers luck. The transition from XBox to XBox360 is really far from optimal and I have some doubts that it will ever get much better before the XBox1 finally fades away completly.
Re:Smaller library (Score:1)
Re:Smaller library (Score:3, Insightful)
You can turn that around too:
"But the [XBOX360] will have the disadvantage of being more expensive than the Nintendo Wii and having a smaller game library than the Sony PlayStation 3."
Re:Smaller library (Score:1)
Re:Smaller library (Score:1)
Step 1... (Score:5, Funny)
Taking 300W, putting out enough heat to warm a house during a Siberian winter and catching on fire is not the first way to win over customers.
Tom
Re:Step 1... (Score:1)
Re:Step 1... (Score:2)
Your comment [while I can smell sarcasm I'll answer anyways] is like saying "If we just make bigger gas tanks our SUVs can drive further, what wonderful innovation!"
Tom
Re:Step 1... (Score:1)
Re:Step 1... (Score:2)
Shhhh
I bet they can... (Score:2, Insightful)
(Might be harder knowing that most people will have already ruled out the PS3 due to the rediculous price tag)
Re:I bet they can... (Score:2)
Balki ruined spelling for an entire generation...
Re:I bet they can... (Score:2)
If memory serves MSFt shipped 200,000 units for 450,000 PS2's. but that's just from bad memory.
Re:I bet they can... (Score:1)
Re:I bet they can... (Score:2)
Re:I bet they can... (Score:2)
Re:I bet they can... (Score:2)
Re:I bet they can... (Score:2)
The overwhelming might of 360! "zonked" tag time (Score:2)
Time to use that "zonked" tag again.
Re:The overwhelming might of 360! "zonked" tag tim (Score:1)
The 360 has been out for 8 months, and has only sold 5 million units total in all markets. That includes the markets they've started selling in that neither Sony nor Nintendo have ever significantly broached before. Now they're saying that in the next 12 months, they expect to sell double what they've sold so far, this time with competition
Issue is spin in summary (Score:3, Insightful)
However you'll note the title of this story is not "Microsoft continues to lose money on 360". It is mentioned, but as aside - along of course with a positive story about how the 360 is going to see a PGR bundle (ironically at the same price as the base PS3).
Basically the story summary was all about plucking the most positive aspects from the article possible, mentioning the one unavoidable fact to deflect potential criticism of the story, and then adding in
Re:Issue is spin in summary (Score:2)
I saw that story too. The prices quoted were in Canadian Dollars.
Trending (Score:2)
That is why I attempt to get people to tag stories with indications of bias with the "zonked" tag. If enough people do so, it lays bare the trend for all to see (if they ever allow tag searches). In
Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2, Interesting)
15 million? The 360 will have
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:1, Offtopic)
At least with the DS the games might suck but the homebrew scene is strong.
Tom
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:1, Offtopic)
I beg to differ. Look at the latest numbers for the top 10 console games sold in Japan
http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten.htm [the-magicbox.com]
The top 3 spots are DS games and 7/10 spots are DS games.
And on the US charts for July 2-8
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153855.html [gamespot.com]
DS games are right up there, but only pushed down a bit due to the World Cup frenzy that pushed all the soccer games up the charts.
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:1, Offtopic)
The problem with the vast majority of DS games is they're ports of side scrollers. Frankly, keep that shit on the GBA where it belongs (not that I hate side scrollers, I just think it's a waste of a DS). Then you have the crappy driving sims... boo.
I like Mario64DSXPPROEDITION and I like a few o
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:1, Offtopic)
duh? DS games? Suck? Are we both talking about Nintendo's Dual Screen?
They may have pretty... unusual games... but most of the ones I own & play I would actually rank "good" to say the least, and I have nearly a dozen of games, and not enough money to buy the many other good ones (that've been released in yurop, then it'll be time to hit the import stores)
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Mario64, MarioBros and Advancewars are among my favs but only because they're classics. Mario Kart is fun but really requires other players, Metriod is just plain boring.
I look forward to the Zelda game [again classic] but what I really want to see are remakes of ACTUAL 3D GAMES.
Christ, test drive 3 in all it's flat shaded VGA glory was more exciting than the latest PS2 dow
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Well, while the system certainly has some 3D ability, it's still very limited: while it can theorically reach 120,000 triangles/sec at 30fps, it is limited to 4000 triangles/scene and was designed to render 3D to a single screen (which makes rendering 3D on both screens difficult, even though Vewtiful Joe Double Trouble manages it)
And it doesn't feature any texture filtering but for antialiasing.
You won't see many good 3D games on the DS, they'll just be too taxing for the console.
Oh, a
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
If you can't emulate that level of game on a 33MHz dual-processor machine with some 3D hardware then we truly are lost.
Fun is fun. You don't need to look photo realistic to be fun. Specially since the resolution is so small anyways. I'd settle for gouraud shaded flat surfaces any day over crappy side scrollers or low detailed textured games that are just plain not fun.
Tom
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:1)
1.3m sold in the EU
400k sold elsewhere
http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/07/20
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:1, Informative)
Every generation it's the same old. Fanboys trying to pass ship numbers off as sold. Straight from NPD the 360 has only sold 2 million as of this month in the US. And the 360 hasn't broken a million in Europe.
The 360 has sold right around 3.1 million worldwide after seven months.
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Obvious Solution to Only 3 Million Sold (Score:2, Insightful)
After all, if noone's buying a platform known for its sports games and FPS games, then obviously they need to make more FPS games.
Oh, and more sports games too. You can never have enough lame golf games!
[caveat - I'm getting a Wii, my last game console was an xBox]
Re:Obvious Solution to Only 3 Million Sold (Score:2)
Supply enough free games and the customers will be there, they won't be buying any games burdened with a xbox licencing fee but they will finally have the numbers.
There of course is the other famous MS prediction about the future of hardware and software sales, hardware will be free and people will rent software, so go on mic
Chartered Semiconductor: Xbox 360 demand low (Score:1)
From the article at Semiconductor Fabtech [fabtech.org]:
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (Score:2)
Minimsft wants to terminate all projects that don't immediately make money, and terminate the employees working on those projects too. The guy has zero long-term vision. And the posters to his blog are a bunch o
they seem to be right on target (Score:5, Funny)
Home Entertainment division lost about $1.2 billion for the last year.
They're on track to lose $4+ billion for this generation console. That's their goal right?! Just like the last one?!
Aim (Score:2)
Oh, I thought they were aiming to shoot them, so that they wouldn't lose so much money on each console sold.
The question to me is: Will they be playing catchup the moment a BluRay PS3 is available? How much are high-def, high capacity drives worth?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It will be possible (Score:1)
Re:It will be possible (Score:2)
Re:It will be possible (Score:1)
Re:It will be possible (Score:1)
(Disclaimer: PC gamer, for reasons of Civilization rather than graphics-card-ness.)
No worthy software (Score:4, Insightful)
Or in other words, why should I - already having a top-end gaming PC - buy one? Which games does it offer that I can't play otherwise, and that are worth the ridiculously high prices (70e+ in some parts of europe)
Gears of War has some potential, but so far its a shiny graphics demo. Nothing launched exclusively so far has had any real meat to it. X360 is missing it's 'Halo' to sell it, unlike the original Xbox at launch, and most announced shiny thingys at E3 are multiplatform, with versions also for PC and/or PS3. As long as PS3 has some major exclusives (Metal Gear series and Gran Turismo series alone will sell fuckton of overpriced PS3s), and Xbox 360 has only shinyed-up ports and crap, it won't sell.
Consoles live and die by their _exclusive_ triple-A titles. Microsoft seems to have forgotten this one...
Re:No worthy software (Score:2)
They may not be exclusives, but then not everyone enjoys PC gaming.
I stopped playing games on the pc years ago because:
1. I got sick of having to buy video cards that cost twice what I paid to build the rest of the box.
2. I was tired of dealing with driver issues with new game releases.
3. I now prefer to play games on my 52" TV as opposed to my
Re:No worthy software (Score:1)
Re:No worthy software (Score:2, Funny)
Re:No worthy software (Score:2)
They're dedicated gaming input devices, so they must allow for better, easier, and faster, and more flexible play than those silly typing and gui navigation devices. Right?
*dripping with sarcasm*
Odd (Score:2)
Oddly I find the 360 better fitting that description, emitting heat like a radiator and only costing $100 less than the PS3 with somewhat better specs. None of the titles you mention are that a great a draw to me to buy a console for (and I have played all of them except for Prey).
I generally agree with your points on PC gaming, except that I still prefer FPS games on a PC over a console... and RT
Re:Odd (Score:2)
I haven't had any real heat problems with the 360, but then mine's in an open shelf with plenty of open air all around it. My Panny HT equipment gets hotter then it does.
I wasn't going to buy the 360 as soon as I did, but Oblivion was the driving factor for me. I certainly don't claim it's for everybody, but I've gotten my money's woth out of it.
Re:Odd (Score:2)
Prey does look pretty interesting, I've been waiting for that one for a while. I'll probably get it eventually, but again a PC version as I really prefer the controls there.
Re:No worthy software (Score:1)
I don't think that's correct. Last I heard, the PS3 will ship this November, but Halo 3 isn't slated until 2007.
Re:No worthy software (Score:2)
If you have a top-end gaming PC, you SHOULD NOT buy the Xbox 360.
However, here are some issues that make a console attractive:
1. Your high end gaming PC is most likely a Windows machine. If you switch to a console for your gaming, you can switch to Linux or a mac for your PC use. Most of the power-
Not true (Score:2)
Plenty of people who own gaming PC's also own consoles.
The complaint is that if you have a PC, there is nothing on the 360 that is different enough or that you cannot get on the PC already.
Lots of people with PC's bought PS2's and XBoxes, because they had games that you could not get for the PC nor would you want to really play on the PC. Where are THOSE games?
Re:Not true (Score:2)
X360 seems to have lots of FPSs, which I consider
Re:No worthy software (Score:2)
None of the titles you list have been released yet.
By the time they are, I can choose between them, and PS3 & Wii launch games. We'll see then. Vapor, previews and other crap are worthless junk. Right now there are no compelling reasons to buy X360.
Note to Bill (Score:2)
I got around the issues with the 360... (Score:2)
The wired 360 controller is just another USB HID device; as soon as I plugged it in, XP was like 'Hey! You've got a controller. Let me check windowsupdate for the driver! Hey! Even better! It's an Xbox360 controller! Here's the driver. Dot
Re:I got around the issues with the 360... (Score:1)
Please tell me the controller is only for flight sims or racing games or something.
Re:I got around the issues with the 360... (Score:2)
Plus, with a controller you can really relax and get comfortable in a way that you can't with a keyboard and mouse.
Re:I got around the issues with the 360... (Score:2)
My hangup was Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. I found the keyboard to be awkward, and unwieldy. The necessary keys were too far away from my fingers to affect their functions quickly enough (or, perhaps as my old piano teacher - Mrs. Mellenger used to say - 'Stupid Fingers!'). I'm sure that the fact that my
Re:I got around the issues with the 360... (Score:2)
Anyone else hear that suprised yelp? (Score:2)
Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year (Score:2)
Well, good luck with that.
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 sure looks nice, though....
Just a note on "fairness" (Score:2)
OTOH, I think it's funny for (some of) the PS3 and Nintendo advocates to complain that 360 has had a head start (# of games, quality thereof). Of course they do. That's what happens when you release first. Of course that's a double-edged sword, in that Nintendo and Sony got to see exactly what MS
Re:um ... okay (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:um ... okay (Score:2)
Re:um ... okay (Score:2)
Many people don't need the 60GB hard drive, HDMI out, built-in WiFi, etc.
CAN SOMEONE MOD THIS UP PLEASE! (Score:2)
Re:um ... okay (Score:2)
So instead of contemplating a move from a game console that cost $200 new to one that costs $400 (360 premium) or $600 (PS3 premium) new, I'm effectively looking at spending that plus another $400 or more on a reasonably cheap 26" HDTV. I'm sure a lot of enthusiasts would be looking for a 36" plasma set or something similar.
I could budget $800 or $1000 plus t