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EVE Online's Next Frontier 135

If you look at the graphs over at MMOGChart.com, most of the lines that aren't WoW seem to be heading downwards. The little engine that could, though, is personified by the Icelandic dynamo EVE Online. FiringSquad has an interview with CCP Senior Producer Nathan Richardsson. He discusses the popularity of EVE right now, and goes into some of the company's plans for making sure the game stays that way in the future. From the article: "This iterative process is based largely on our crazy future views of how EVE should be and a lot on player feedback. We then want to do some revolutionary stuff to the EVE universe and then evolution comes and bites us in the ass, reminding us that it's not cool to always throw new stuff in, the current game needs to be constantly maintained and evolved. In the end, we're never happy and I guess this is part of what is fuelling our continued passion for EVE."
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EVE Online's Next Frontier

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  • After EA's recent acquisition of WAR [warhammeronline.com], It's nice to see some non-WoW MMORPGS getting some attention. There may yet be hope for those of us trapped in Azeroth...
    • I'm kinda interested in Warhammer now the Mythic is on board. They have a tremendous staff with what has always seemed like a great sense of project management. If they can bring that to the table for WH, it is definitely a turn for the better.

      • Um, Mythic has basically ALWAYS been on board - It was a Mythic project long before the EA acquisition.

        EA, on the other hand, has a long track record of killing MMOGs and running previously excellent studios into the ground.
        • Ahh, thanks for the clarification. I know of EA's record, but they recently bought Mythic. I must have remembered the headlines in the wrong order (Mythic involved on WH, then EA buys Mythic, not the other way around.)

  • Screenshots... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by posterlogo ( 943853 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:43PM (#15669880)
    ...are all of random ships floating around in space. There to show off the "beautiful graphics" with absolutely no indication as to what a screen of actual gameplay looks like. Too many games out there rely on these cherry-picked screenshots as selling points.
    • I could not agree more. I want to see a video clip of actual gameplay!
      • some video's not the best by a long way but still pretty reasnoable at showing the game off.

        Finished Videos:

        - Rise of the Legion [eve-files.com] by Muteki
        The first days of Legion in EvE. If you have problems with payback, try to use VLC or mplayer

        - Empire Days [eve-files.com] by Muteki
        Legion gets ready and moves to Fountain. Good Bye Empire!

        - A New Home [eve-files.com] by Muteki
        Legion returns to Empire. Good Bye Xelas!

        Videos in progress:

        - Level 4 Fun [legionhq.org] by Animoy
        EvE's equivalent to dungeons.
    • Re:Screenshots... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Winterblink ( 575267 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:46PM (#15669906) Homepage
      Hit the EVE site and go to their movies section. All of the videos show actual gameplay, though frequently the interface is removed (key combo in the game). There are segments in most videos that show everything.

      Alternately, this [eve-online.com] forum on the site, which is freely accessible without requiring an account, has links to a ton of player created videos.
    • Heh... that *is* the actual gameplay. ^_^

      It's all very pretty.
    • Re:Screenshots... (Score:5, Informative)

      by GoNINzo ( 32266 ) <GoNINzoNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:03PM (#15670101) Journal
      There are a ton of movies floating around. I really like this one of us busting an alliance's safe spot, killing a bunch of battleships. (It's shot from the perspective of a covert ops who found them and remained cloaked nearby.) http://www.battleclinic.com/cue/fraps/SS_Bust_14_5 _06.avi [battleclinic.com]

      You can also check out http://www.eve-files.com/ [eve-files.com], which has a ton more pictures and some movies and such.

      Or, youtube, of course. http://www.youtube.com/results?search=eve+online [youtube.com]

    • Re:Screenshots... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Ford Prefect ( 8777 )
      Too many games out there rely on these cherry-picked screenshots as selling points.

      After hearing random people ranting on about how good EVE Online was, and how it most definitely wasn't World of Warcraft (which most of my friends are addicted to right now), I thought I'd give it a try. So, downloaded the client, started the free 14-day trial thing...

      First impressions: it looks and sounds amazing. For instance, the in-system hyperspace effect is brilliant - screenshots simply couldn't do it justice. It real
      • Re:Screenshots... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by brennz ( 715237 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:44PM (#15670486)
        You only fought NPCs. You were in high security space the entire time.

        You mentioned nothing of true tactics in ship vs ship pvp.

        When it comes to player vs. player in EVE, EVE has so much more tactics and strategy than most other MMOs. The simple reason behind this is the massive variety of ships, loadouts, skillsets. Whereas WOW has certain classes that specialize in killing other classes, and strictly defined skilltrees, EVE has far more variety.

        Yet another newbie posting on a game. This is like a level 5 nub in WOW talking about endgame.
        • Unfortunately, first impressions are often the most important.

          Seriously, though, I haven't tried EVE because I can't stand flight games. I hated Descent. I hated SWG's Jump to Lightspeed. I have no reason to believe that I wouldn't hate EVE, too.
          • Re:Screenshots... (Score:5, Informative)

            by cowscows ( 103644 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @05:37PM (#15671000) Journal
            It's not a flight(space) sim in any sense that'd be familiar to someone who's played Descent. You can't play the game with a joystick. Your mouse does not directly control your space craft. There's never a cockpit view. You don't aim your weapons, you just tell which ones which opponent to fire on.

            Think of it sort of like Star Trek, where you're a guy sitting at a control panel telling the ship's computer what you want it to do. Except that the control panel is your computer screen, and you push the buttons using the mouse cursor. And your view is outside of your spaceship, not from inside it.

            The really interesting parts of the game, in my opinion, are the social aspects of it. The organization involved in running a succesful alliance or corporation, the logistics of big wars and holding territory, the strategy and tactics used in big fleet battles. It all requires a lot of coordination, and it's a lot of fun if you get yourself into a big group.

            Then there's a lot of technical depth that you can get involved in. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of different fittings that can be piled onto dozens of different ships. The economy is player driven, very deep, and very active. There are people who really enjoy producing, collecting and trading minerals, creating stuff, and selling it. There are some people who can't get enough of the mining, while other people find mining to be boring as all hell.

            There really are enough options in EVE that just about anyone should be able to find a niche that they enjoy. The biggest problem with the game is that that complexity can be overwhelming at first, so it's not surprising when people give up before they can find a niche they want to fill. Unless you're lucky enough to fall into a corporation that actively trains its newbies, you'll have to stick out a rough beginning.
        • You only fought NPCs. You were in high security space the entire time.

          I wasn't exactly - I flew through a couple of low-rated systems on the way to find out what a 'cynosure' was. Wasn't targeted once. Okay, so I was just flying through, but I never got a hint of any danger... (Yes, so there will be some properly dangerous systems. So I then flew to one with a few hundred ships destroyed in the last few hours. It was like a flash-mob, I couldn't find anything untoward...)

          I'm sure there's some deeply fascina
        • When it comes to player vs. player in EVE, EVE has so much more tactics and strategy than most other MMOs. The simple reason behind this is the massive variety of ships, loadouts, skillsets. Whereas WOW has certain classes that specialize in killing other classes, and strictly defined skilltrees, EVE has far more variety.

          Unfortunately, citing any of the current crop of MMO games as an example of 'tactics and strategy' is about as useful as stating that your buddy is a better programmer than Paris Hilton
        • If by 'tactics', you mean '5 BS's sniping at anyone who warps through the gate into '. I played EVE for a good while, and the VAST majority of PvP combat was stuff like gate ganks and suicide kessies hitting ice miners in high-sec.

          I quit because I lost about half a billion ISK to a bug that wasn't acknowledged at the time, and because trying to get past a certain point in the game without joining some huge low-sec group was pretty much impossible within a reasonable timeframe, unless I wanted to be very, ve
      • Re:Screenshots... (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Disagree with it because his entire type of fighting sums up only frigate piloting..and even then only T1 n00b frigate piloting.

        To quote:
        "Combat seems to involve automatically setting your ship to orbit another, then enabling your weapons. Which then shoot away at regular intervals, all aiming done automatically"~ford perfect

        I wish I could still do that in ym cruiser battleship..I frankly think that sort of introduction to the games system management DB is a decent approach. (to dully note, even fi this was
      • Re:Screenshots... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by urikkiru ( 801560 )
        Eve actually isn't that dull, but it's also a game that refuses to hold your hand. Gameplay is whatever you choose to do, so there's no overarcing plot or guide to steer you towards something really. Combat for example, seems simple at first. However, as you play more and more, and understand the mechanics more, you find that combat is anything but simple. Simply autopiloting around a target, and going afk while your weapons fire only works very early on. After that you have to start thinking about ship loa
      • Re:Screenshots... (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Eve-Online is definantly a different style of gameplay... and I LOVE IT.

        Sorry to hear that some people don't like the style. Yes, the aiming is done for you( which avoids the cheats that pervade games like CounterStrike ). And no, you dont fly your ship with a joystick, but there is a lot more to the Eve-online than 'steering' your ship in a 1st person shooter way. One hell of a lot more.

        For starters you learn skills. These skills matter a great deal in how your ship is piloted, how long your ship lasts
      • Very good description. That's pretty much exactly how I felt about it. I played for about 3 months, and my impression wasn't any different. To sum it up:

        -the only cool thing you can do is mine in dangerous spots or fight the NPC pirates
        -To do that, you need a better ship
        -To get a better ship, you need gobs of $$$
        -To get gobs of $$$, you need to mine
        -The best places to mine are in the dangerous zones and you can't really

        Rinse and repeat.

        Supposedly it gets easier/more fun if you get into the whole guild (corp
        • Never mined much in the game other than in the initial tutorial (3 years ago) as I found it boring as hell.

          Instead I made my money farming NPC and playing the market.

          The best Isk to be made is in the wheelings and dealings of low security space; where one can stand to gain large rewards, but also to lose much as Eve is very unforgiving to inattention or brackish play.

          I leave mining to the player that get a kick of watching grass grow. I get my minerals to build *my* stuff from the plates and junk left of th
      • I gave it a try for about a week also. The graphics are BEAUTIFUL, and things feel realistic. However, what I really found most annoying was the realtime-based skill system. There's no XP, there's only buying initial skills and using real time to train them up. Which means you have to set your alarm clock (and/or use EVEmon) to skill things past say lvl 3 (where the times start going into the 8h to 1day to even multiple days).

        Why isn't there a miniclient or website that would let you, say, login whilst
    • ..are all of random ships floating around in space. There to show off the "beautiful graphics" with absolutely no indication as to what a screen of actual gameplay looks like. Too many games out there rely on these cherry-picked screenshots as selling points.

      Ah, but in EVE, the pretty graphics really are a major selling point. When I played it, a couple of years ago, I often spent my time flying from A to B admiring my beautiful ship against the gorgeous Hubble backgrounds.

      The reasons I quit after a c

  • by skia ( 100784 ) <skia.skia@net> on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:43PM (#15669882) Homepage
    Great. Now how about a Mac version!
    • Seconded. I would love to play this, but there's no Mac version.

      They seem to have focussed heavily on Direct X and all that jazz for their graphics engine, so I doubt they'll even consider the Mac platform.
    • by Onan ( 25162 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:55PM (#15670027)
      No need to apologize, it's quite relevant.

      I think that good, concurrent mac versions are a lot of what have made Blizzard's games so successful. There are literally millions of people out there with modern macs; a nontrivial number of those people have some interest in gaming, and a limited number of options available to them. Being one of a small number of companies willing to cater to them has to be extremely lucrative.

      I know that I've been tempted to quit WoW for another game.. but there just aren't any, so I keep paying Blizzard. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are another million or so people in the same boat, which is more players than most games ever see. Blizzard is raking in cash from this underserved market, and I'm kind of surprised that no one else has yet figured this out and decided to get in on it.

    • I would prefer a Linux version myself.
    • It won't happen. EVE Online / CCP is quite solidly in Microsoft's pocket. From the bottom up, the system is based off MS tech. From Microsoft SQL Server 2005 to DirectX integration, the game is entirely powered on MS Opperating systems. The fan-base has been asking for *nix/OSX support for years, but there's no chance of it happening. Some have managed to get it running on Cedega in the past though. The CCP dev team was sponsored by the DX project as well, hindering our bid. If you go to the DX site, there
    • Great. Now how about a Mac version!

      Solved by downloading Apple's free BootCamp software and purchasing a Mac Book Pro or Intel based iMac. Now mac users never have to fret about waiting for a PC port to OSX ever again. :)

  • Strange... (Score:4, Informative)

    by DisKurzion ( 662299 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:45PM (#15669901)
    When the MMO chart was posted, I downloaded the demo for EVE online for the very same reason...

    I havn't installed or set up a trial account yet because
    A: I can't afford WoW and EVE
    B: I don't have time to properly "abuse" a trial account right now.

    But their website is very informative, and the game seems interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if this game continues to gather new players.
    • I'm in the same boat... at least on B.

      I really don't have time to play my Eve account right now, but I'm still subbed. Granted, I'm blowing something like 12.95 a month with barely any playtime, but my character grows even when I'm offline.

      When I do have time to play, I actually don't have that much "catch up" to do with everyone who has been playing the whole time.

      So yeah, it's great for the casual gamer who wants to play, but just can't dedicate massive amounts of time to an MMO.

      I might as well throw out
  • by Andrew Nagy ( 985144 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:47PM (#15669920) Homepage Journal
    I might play Eve. In fact, I think it may be what the MMORPG genre was meant to be in its fullest form. I downloaded the free trial and after a few hours of gameplay, I hadn't finished with the tutorial. The game is huge. It's not all about killing or casual violence, it's about a life. You can buy, sell, trade, build companies, overthrow other companies in bidding wars, all sorts of things. You never have to fire a shot.
    • I agree, but... I don't.

      I do think this is more like an alternate life than any other MMORPG out there. There's no plot or grind or specific goals, there's just a big world out there that you can actually affect and be affected by. There's more responsiblity for your actions. (Undercutting someone on the market? They might declare war and kill your haulers. etc, etc.)

      On the other hand ... I don't think you _have_ to invest all your life in it. If you wanted to be a CEO of a big company, or control the marke
  • by GoNINzo ( 32266 ) <GoNINzoNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:49PM (#15669946) Journal
    The entire reason I started playing Eve was because the lack of shards. During my time on WoW, I would run into friends IRL who would say they would be playing WoW, but unless I wanted to do the entire level grind again, I would never be able to hang out with them in game. So, if any of my friends started playing Eve, I could hook up with them and fly. It was good times. The economy, though spread across so many regions, really makes it interesting to trade.

    My corp currently holds an outpost, and it's really interesting to see the idea of player run stations, where it's not any different than a normal station that people dock at. I am really looking forward to the Kali upgrades which should really expand the world.

    For those who havn't tried it, remember you can try it for 14 days free, though it will only get you hooked. heh A couple people I know are now playing for 'free' by trading in game isk for time cards, which buys you time in the game.

    Anyway, it's a fun game, I'm glad to see it getting the attention it deserves on slashdot. Even though I've only been playing 7ish months, I've already got the two accounts going, and I suspect i'm going to keep them going. And even though I'm head down in work currently, my characters are still leveling skills in game, so when I get done with this project, I'll finally be able to fly that hauler that can fit everything. heh

    -Kismeteer in game
    • A couple people I know are now playing for 'free' by trading in game isk for time cards, which buys you time in the game.

      Wow...that's an ingenious virtual money sink. I can't believe no one else has ever thought about that idea (then again, I haven't really been keeping up with the MMOG scene). FYI, virtual money sinks are good since they slow down virtual inflation.

      I've played Eve around 2 years ago, but I found it really boring to play without a corporation (and I didn't have time for one). I remember s

      • It isn't a money sink. This is how it works. Person A buys time code with real cash, and puts up a WTS (want to sell) post in the trading forum, and person B pays in game cash for it. Person A is basicaly buying in game money with real money, but its sanctioned and CCP gets the cash, not 'gold farmers'.

        EVE already has lots of money sinks. Stuff gets blown up, gotta buy more. Its not like WOW, die and run back to your corpse and there it all is. Crafting in WOW is a joke, no one needs to ever replace anythin
    • // begin rambling incoherency

      Skill progression linked to time is great for me as i can't spend a huge amount of time playing. I can just train a skill that takes a lot of time when i know i will have extended time away from the game, if i do get to play earlier than expected well i can train a quick training skill and not lose progress on the slow one. So at least you can get some decent skills as a casual player and feal some sense of progression. Oh course time is money in EVE and even though a player
    • The entire reason I started playing Eve was because the lack of shards. During my time on WoW, I would run into friends IRL who would say they would be playing WoW, but unless I wanted to do the entire level grind again, I would never be able to hang out with them in game. So, if any of my friends started playing Eve, I could hook up with them and fly. It was good times.

      Absolutely. It's always been a bit of a problem with other MMOs, but since they've been smaller, you just had about 8 servers that you mig
    • That's one of the many reasons I like Guild Wars over WoW. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $15 a month to play and online game and not even be able to play with my RL friends across the country.


  • by steveo777 ( 183629 )
    Yeah, I played the game in the subject. Hated every second of it. I tried to play the 'stealthy' ship. It's the only one that appealed to me. I haven't played Eve. Can anyone give me a good comparison? Is it worth my time to try it?
  • by Winterblink ( 575267 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @03:56PM (#15670029) Homepage
    As someone who's played a bunch of MMOs, I find EVE to be an anomaly. The ridiculous attention to detail and depth hooked me more than any other game I've played, and has been the only game which has inspired me to create an online comic for the community. In fact the community of players in EVE is unlike anything I've seen before, willing to create streating audio and video sites to cover events (EVE Radio), create special sites for hosting pictures and videos for other players (EVE Files), and planning large scale gatherings on other continents for folks who can't make the yearly fanfest in Iceland (EVE Gathering). It's really quite something. For the curious, my comic is called Warp Drive Active [winterblink.com]. The humor is fairly contextual, but I try to make it general enough that folks not having played the game might still be able to get the jokes.
  • Adrenaline (Score:4, Informative)

    by eison ( 56778 ) <pkteison@@@hotmail...com> on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:10PM (#15670176) Homepage
    I wish more games would get the 'you actually put something you value on the line' idea right. Eve does, and that's what makes it brilliant. I never cared a whit about dying in WoW, but every battle in Eve practically flips me out. CCP missed a bunch of polish, but they got this one detail right and I love it.
    • Actually, there's been a steady turn AWAY from that. That's how it used to be. In EQ, if you died, you lost a non-trivial amount of experience.

      The only other MMOs I've played, both recent ones, sort of did away with that. In City of Heroes, you get a debt that has to be paid off when you die, but it's capped and the fact is even if you're always in debt, you're still always making and never losing progress. WoW pretty much gets rid of that entirely.

      Whether it's a good thing or a bad... I can't really say.
  • On EVE (Score:5, Insightful)

    by brennz ( 715237 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:13PM (#15670200)
    I'm playing EVE right now.

    EVE I consider somewhat like Shadowbane-in-space, without the sb.exe and with a far better engine.

    EVE graphics are great. Far better than anything else on the market that is an MMO.

    I love the depth of EVE - you can trade, mine, pirate (PK), pvp, run NPC missions, or kill NPC pirates.

    The huge amount of players online at any given time is great too - it isn't like standard MMOs with everything being on seperate servers.

    EVE has a different levelling system also - basically time based. You set a skill up, it finishes after a set amount of time. No need to kill a mob over and over again, then move on to tougher mobs. Just time, based on the attributes of your character.

    EVE requires a high performance system in order fully experience it in all its glory. I am using a p4 2.8 C, 1 GB ram, gf fx 5900 ultra typically at 100hz @1024x768 and my framerate is somewhat substandard. Going to build a new system specifically for this.

    Also, alt usage is rampant in EVE. Because you can only train up one character at a time, a significant % of people run alts. I know of people that have as many as 5 accounts!

    EVE's territorial, and risk vs. reward system is far superior to most other modern MMOs. In most other MMOs, there is no risk really, because of the watered down pvp. You die in WOW, you basically lose nothing. Not so in EVE. Dying in EVE can be seriously painful because of the massive expense of well fitted ships.

    My only gripes with EVE is the time based levelling has some of the oldest players nearly at 55 million skill points (SP) so newer players cannot dream of competing with them, not for years. There is significant amount of time to be spent in your initial learning tree, and follow on into chosen skills based on your professions.
    • A well organized corp/alliance can find uses for newer players, and allow them not only to feel productive, but actually allow them to be productive. A six week old player is not going to have much of a chance one-on-one with a two year vet, but that's not really any different from any other game.

      • The defining characteristic of great pvp games is the player skill involved, vice time to obtain certain items.

        Ultima Online, during the tank mage era immediately preceding UO:R was the best skill focused pvp game to date.

        In UO during that period, a six week old player with skills could very easily stomp a 7x GM 2 year old player.

        That is why UO was so great of a PVP game, and probably, the reason why EA ruined the pvp system with the release of UO:R and overpowered gear. Many people that claim to love pvp,
        • In Eve, player skill is definately > than character skill points. You can invest a lot of time into training skills, but all this lets you do is use better equipment and bigger ships. If you don't know how to use it effectively, a couple of two week old characters is cheap ships can take and most likely will take you out if they know what they are doing. Eve PVP is currently the best thing out there.
    • MMORPGs need to have lifespans. Your skill builds with time but then you die and have to start again. How fun can it be being leveled up so much higher than everyone else? If you had old age death then you'd get a good mix of older, skilled characters and greenhorns and everybody would go through all the stages periodically.

      You could even set things up so when you're young you have less skill but better physical abilities, as you age you trade strength and speed for skill.
    • About your gripe, there are several responses from people that have no problem with it, and prefer it that way.

      1) When you fly a ship there's so much that you can do, and no more, so the rest of the skill points are "wasted" (not used).

      So, when a veteran from the beginning is flying an interceptor (fast but small ship) what matters is the skills used by the ship and the modules, but not, for example, the industrial skills.

      2) Player skill is much more important than character skill.

      If you fit your ship incor
    • Why would a newbie want to fight a veteran?

      Would you do it in real life? You start practicing karate, would you pick a fight with a black belt? would it be fair for white belts to fight black belts and demand balance?

      MMORPG are too focused on balance, lots of players play a lot, some of them don't, I'd say it would be ok for it to be unbalanced as in the players that play a lot get really good (make it rewarding) while the other players get their rewards at their own pace, while playing with players at thei

  • I'm an EVE-ONLINE player. Training up HAC skills as we speak, only 8 days from time of this post for Cruiser level 5.

    EVE will never be very big in America. There is a portion of the population in America who play, I myself am American. But, while the entire world loves soccer, Americans typically don't care much for the sport. Probably, the reasons why Americans don't like soccer is the very same reasons why EVE will not gain much widespread appeal in America.

    Not to belittle any sportsman, let's do cons
    • ???

      Almost everyone I encounter in Eve(both in 0.0 and Empire space) is American.
      • Are you American yourself? If so, perhaps you encounter more Americans because the hours that you play are more convenient for more people on the west side of the Atlantic. Many corps have European and American subsections, and it is not uncommon for the European section to be the larger.
    • My first stint with Eve was when the game first went live, played for 3 months and could fly every cruiser, amarr and gallente battleships, use any weapon, maxed out mining, and could control 8 drones. I did the math on how long I would have to grind rocks to get a battleship or join a corp and grind rocks for them for them to get a battleship BP and finally decided that the upkeep of the game was not worth my time and quit. Finally joined again and within one month I had the ISK for a battleship thanks t
    • by ReverendLoki ( 663861 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:41PM (#15670458)
      There is so much wrong in your post....

      Most Americans won't play EVE because most Americans don't play MMORPGs in general. Speaking strictly about the Americans who play MMORPGs, though, most won't be playing EVE because of the huge time investment. Most of these gamers play for a diversion... they are playing a game, not trying to work a second virtual job.

      You say that Americans like games simple and dumbed down, and say that is why Americans don't like Soccer, but instead play games like (American) Football, Basketball and Baseball. I'm guessing you have never played Soccer, then. It's simplicity is part of what makes it a great sport... at the core, you just need a ball to play it. No fancy rules, no complex strategies, no infield fly rule, no complex screen pass patterns. Once you've mastered the offsides rule, which any 6 year old can do, it's a simple game.

      Regarding your comments on music as a reflection on American society - you realize that this applies to the entire world, don't you? And why are you including the Beatles as an example of American music?

      Look, I may just be falling into the trap laid by yet another Troll, but the way I see it, you are extremely confused on... well, almost every subject you broached in your brief explanation...

      • I always thought offside in soccer should be abolished. We never thought to bother with it during recess and VERY rarely enforced it later when I was refereeing.

        Soccer in it's purest form -- a bunch of kids with a ball and some posts to mark goals. In knee deep snow, of course.
    • Ah yes! The high probablility of "serious loss" must be why soccer is so popular to the rest of the world!

      All those people getting seriously injured and even killed, that must be the appeal!

      Or is it the endless sophistication of the game? Not the brain-dead, obviousness of basketball, football and baseball.

      Let's see: you guys take this ball, try to get it through that goal. These guys over here are going to try to stop you. Yes, that's a grossly simplified and distorted version of the complexities

    • This is perhaps the dumbest thing ever written on Slashdot. The depth of your ignorance is matched only by its breadth. The one topic on which you come close to expressing some level of reasonable expertise, EVE Online, is overshadowed by your obvious contempt for a wide swath of human existence which you seem determined to not understand.

      Please, for the love of God, never try to communicate your thoughts to another human being ever again.
      • This is perhaps the dumbest thing ever written on Slashdot. The depth of your ignorance is matched only by its breadth. The one topic on which you come close to expressing some level of reasonable expertise, EVE Online, is overshadowed by your obvious contempt for a wide swath of human existence which you seem determined to not understand.

        It's easy to make a claim. As you have.

        At least I gave examples, which were also factual. So you don't agree, or perhaps you are defensive. What is also a fact, which m
        • What facts?

          All you did is list some things you perceive about American culture that you don't like. And you claim that your examples are factual? Again, I ask what facts? Americans don't like options? Your opinion. American culture is dumbed down? Again, your opinion. We won't like EVE because it is too difficult? Your opinion. You are an arrogant, self-righteous fucktard? Everyone else's opinion.

          And then, when you are confronted with the fact that your post was idiotic drivel with no basis in rea
    • This is silly. Do people die playing soccer, other than drunk fans?

      Most Americans don't like 'high risk' sports because it's hard to admire someone who is risking death just to get other people to clap for them. Being (in effect) a gladiator is not all that admirable according to the American world view. I'm from USA and I agree with this. Risking death to pull someone out of a burning car -- admirable. Risking death to score a goal - what were you thinking?

      Similarly, there are folks in USA who like ra
    • Basketball, baseball and football are all mechanically... very simple. Afterall, a jock has to understand what to do.

      As opposed to your example of soccer?
      Football, the top sport in the US, IMHO is the best blend of mental and physical competition of any sport.

      So, danger and tangible loss does not appeal to Americans.

      Physically players are highly specialized, from 5'10 170lb DBs, to 6'8 400lb linemen, and the danger is definately there. Injuries are a huge part of the sport, it is not uncommon for sev
    • mainstream music isn't even as musically "advanced" as even 30 years ago. Compare the melodic sophistication of GreenDay with that of Jimi Hendrix, or The Beatles. We can even take this one step forward and compare most American top 40 to Classical influences such as Beethoven. Clearly, on a cultural level, Americans are dumbed down to an unbelievable state. Music is an example that's gotten so bad... RAP, the "singers" don't even bother carrying a note or in other words... sing. That's much too hard to do;
    • My theory of why the game isn't popular is that it's freaking boring! I just started a free trial a few days ago, I'm a first time player. One of my first quests was to deliver some documents (I guess they haven't mastered fax technology yet) to a few systems away. I set the system as my destination, and turned on autopilot. It took a HALF HOUR to get there. Thirty minutes of just sitting and staring at the screen (well that's not true; I got bored of staring and started reading a book instead). And what ha
  • by Viking Coder ( 102287 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:23PM (#15670287)
    For anyone remotely curious about Eve Online, this story is a must read:

    http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html [circa1984.com]

    From the intro:

    This is a story of deception, intrigue, and doublecrossing. It is a story of liars, bandits, and greed. It is a story of the worst of the human condition, and how the motive for profit will drive a normally nice guy to the deepest depths of evil and betrayal.

    This is the story of my life in Eve Online.
  • I've played EVE (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lonesome phreak ( 142354 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @04:30PM (#15670343) Journal
    For a few months now. I think the biggest thing keeping people playing it is the complexity. On eve-online there are programs to help you choose the right types of weapons for range, speed, ship size, ammo type, and so on. There are about five different types of each turrent, going from really cheap to really expensive...and there is a definate difference in game play. Hundreds, if not thousands, of different combinations of different ship moduals that can change various attributes of the ships such as CPU usage, power output, sheilding (against four different types of damage like explosive, thermo, emp) all combine to make a complex game just to start out with.

    Throw in corporations, pirates, wars...it really is like a different world. What I find most interesting in it is the fact I can start my character training on something, and then don't really need to go back and mess with the game until the training is done if I don't want to. The biggest problem is the amount of ISK (in-game money) that things cost. It takes weeks to get enough ISK together to build a decent battleship, and you can loose it in less than a minute. You sit in your escape pod...hopefully you bought some insurance, and even that isn't enough to get a ship like you had. There are pirates everywhere in low security space, and once you've dropped to .4 or lower (on a scale of .0 to 1, with 0 being mad-max land) anything goes pretty much. A few times I've come through a gate to be immediatly attacked. If I have a mission into low-sec space I'll put 2-3 warp coil stabilizers on the ship just so I can escape if I'm jumped.

    EVE is definetly not a game for the casual player. To get a really good character is usually takes at least 6mo to a year to build up one character. But, if you enjoy space combat and corporate subterfuge, it is a very fun game. Also, even though it have great graphics, it's not overly-taxing on the system like WOW and COV.
  • This interview is worth reading if you are interested in Eve Online, though the interviewer asks a lot of easy questions. Some of the frontiers that Eve has arrived at are no longer virtual or strictly game related.

    One question that the interviewer should have asked, since CCP was being candid about its revenue sharing with the Chinese licensee, is to what degree it will cooperate with the Chinese government on requests for user data a la the Yahoo! China fiasco? CCP seems to be adopting the policy of man
  • The Big Scam (Score:2, Interesting)

    I was somewhat interested in the game until I read this. [circa1984.com] The bad taste in my mouth has always prevented me from picking up a copy.
    • Funny, that's precisely what drew me to Eve Online. It's not so much the fact that there was a jerk in the game, but that the type of interactions with other players was intense, that it caused those kinds of emotions - that it was ALLOWED and even enforced by the game mechanics... Very cool.

      It also says: don't go in alone, kid - you'll get hurt.
    • You certainly can get scammed in EVE, and the GM's consider it to be part of the game. But if you're reasonably careful, you most likely won't have any problems.

      That story must have occured earlier in the game's lifetime, because the amounts of money that he's talking about are not so outrageous now. Many of the larger corps move around billions of isk per day. There are ships that cost billions of isk. There have also been scams involving billions of isk.

  • Great Game (Score:3, Informative)

    by Drakin020 ( 980931 ) on Thursday July 06, 2006 @05:00PM (#15670682)
    I played EVE for a long time. One of the biggest things to me was how Open ended it was. You could kill the police, be the police, raid your home station, or go make your own. There was SO MUCH you could do it was amazing.

    Allot of players do say the game is slow to move. As in you have to work for a long time in order to get anywhere. For instance skills are based on a Real Time clock. When you want to train a skill it has a timer for how long it takes before it is complete. You can log off and the timer is still going. The downside to this is skills take a long time to level. Some taking months. This is what I think draws allot of players away. With simple games that you can be uber in less than a month such as WoW, most of the younger folks and less patient will migrate there. But for a hardcore, work your arse off, do whatever you want gaming experience, EVE is the winner hands down.

    You will also hear that players who have been in the game longer will always be ahead of you. To an extent this is true. There player skills will be higher but that does not mean they will have advanced as much. You can be much lower in skill and still outwit another player. Where as WoW if you are down by 3 levels just start running now. The battle system in EVE allows the player to use his natural playing skills and strategy to overcome the odds. Other games it's a simple click...special here....mega bomb there....and it's over. There is so much strategy involved with EVE it is insane.

    To put it short, EVE is the only game I know that is player Driven. What you do affects the world as a whole. You can do what you want be who you want, and really put your skills to the test. It's great to see games like these with such a mature community prevailing against the odds.
  • From what I've seen of it, EVE reminds me of what Escape Velocity would be like if they implemented a 3D Engine and made it massively multiplayer. Unfortunately, I use a Mac, so no EVE for me, or any MMORPG really, as WOW never appealed to me.
  • The only thing that is slightly strange about the graphics..... are there *really* that many clouds in space?
  • by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7.cornell@edu> on Thursday July 06, 2006 @08:00PM (#15671948) Homepage
    EVE had a great concept. A complex, diverse, player driven economy. A player could focus on a wide variety of professions - Mining, research and development, manufacturing, combat, NPC hunting, or more.

    Unfortunately, the implementation was horrible. Within 1-2 months the economy was in the crapper. There was virtually no profit in manufacturing, research never proved to be useful as there was almost no benefit whatsoever to putting a blueprint in for more than 3-4 cycles of research. Mining was insanely profitable only if you could get into one of the corporations that dominated insecure space. Combat was boring as hell - 2-3 hours of flying, 2-3 hours of gate camping, only to finally reach 30 seconds of intense combat.

    I made it as far as having a Thorax blueprint of my own, along with owning my first battleship. Then I got BORED. Even as a member of one of the largest corps in the game, there was nothing that actually interested me.

    Then Tech 2 came along. It was supposed to be the savior of the economy, finally guaranteeing manufacturers unique items that might actually make a profit. Nope, one corporation who had managed to stay in the lead with mining and one of only 3-4 that managed to get in on the manufacturing boom before it crapped out bought out all the Tech 2 blueprints and made the market even more FUBAR. While I happened to be in that corporation, it was sad seeing how lopsided the game was becoming.

    Throughout this, let's not forget the bugs. Frequently major functions would get broken with a patch and not get fixed for 2-3 more patches. CCP NEVER revamped their precaching system to properly avoid gatecamping load lag exploits.

    Last but not least, I can't point to any one single aspect of the game mechanics to cause it, but in general they were very conducive and if anything encouraged internal corporate strife. I was horrified what was happening to my corp, which consisted almost entirely of comrades of mine from a previous game, Planetarion. As the months went on, there was more and more internal arguing and strife, in many cases by people who used to be great friends.

    I got tired of seeing what was happening and quit the game. A month and a half later, Xanadu practically split in two. I wasn't surprised at all, as it had been brewing for ages, but it was horrible to see former friends so angry at each other. EVE basically destroyed one of the best groups of gaming comrades I had ever been in.

    I'm back in DAoC, and while I'm in general annoyed with Mythic, at least the game mechanics don't encourage guilds tearing themselves apart.
    • > EVE basically destroyed one of the best groups of gaming comrades I had ever been in.

      Or consider this: if a group's camaraderie is predicated on a particular set of game mechanics, perhaps the group wasn't all that tight to begin with: 'fair weather friends', if you will?

      On the other hand, I agree that there is plenty for CCP to do to improve the game (bug fixes, features promised but not yet implemented), but I find it sufficiently fun already that it beats the other MMOs that I've played. The game ha
  • by Anonymous Coward
    What an incredibly boring game. Its not even real time, the best you get is sending a course adjustment every 5 seconds. The leveling system is based on time. Real world time. Seriously, the advancement system consist of "have your account for a long time", so new players are completely fucked. Even the combat is ridiculously slow, tedious and boring, and that's the most exciting part of the game.
  • EVE, once you get out of high security space becomes more and more of a sandbox and this to me is it's appeal. The physics are just right for a game of this type although in the future something along the lines of I-WAR would be better. It isn't game for instant gratification but if you want to carve your own path and have an oppertunity to make somehting of yourself in a non sarded wourld with over 20,000 people in it at any one time then this is the game for you.

    This might be a game but the politics are

Man is an animal that makes bargains: no other animal does this-- no dog exchanges bones with another. -- Adam Smith