Ants Use Pedometers to Find Home 202
Ant writes "New Scientist (a short video clip included) reports that desert ants have an internal pedometer that keeps track of how many steps they take, according to a new study. The insects seem to rely on this system to find their way back to the nest after foraging. Other insects may also possess this pedometer-like system. Some types of ants appear to use visual cues or leave scent trails to find their way home. But desert ants have a remarkable ability to retrace their steps from their nesting site even though they travel on flat terrain that is devoid of landmarks, and any odors quickly fade in the hot temperatures."
Fun (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Fun (Score:3, Informative)
There's a video on the site that show the ants on stilts. Ants on stilts man! It doesn't get an better. And I thought my job was weird.
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Re:Fun (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Fun (Score:2)
Not nearly as fun as standing over the colony with a mangifying glass. Hot Sun + Magnifying glass == hours of afternoon fun! Don't get one that's too big (too hot) - it's fun to chase the little buggers for a while with a smaller one to play a lively, cat & mouse style game of "keep the white spot on the running-for-dear-life bug".
Re:Fun (Score:2)
As pointed out by others, that's what the article is about...
One other reason to RTFA are classic quotes you might otherwise miss out on:
When the researchers shortened the ants' legs the insects had trouble finding home.
who would have thought.
Re:Fun (Score:3, Insightful)
it around a bit instead of cuttiny legs off the pests ?
i'm no peta fanatic but sawing someones legs off seems rather violent.
next in news, cutting partially off scientist brains seems to affect research results
Re:Fun (Score:2, Informative)
They did! (Score:2)
They did! [spiegel.de]
Are we there yet? (Score:2)
WARNING (Score:5, Funny)
This website contains the term "pedo", and is thereby placed under quarantine until the aforenamed inquiry is complete. Any additional edits to this page will be persued and the authors viewed as accomplices to the crime.
Have a nice day.
Re:WARNING (Score:2, Insightful)
"No media outlet, its subsidaries, or its posters shall be awarded freedom of speech when it is considered to expose the US Government's attempts at being sneaky, shitty, assholish, or going completely against eveything guaranteed by the Constitution. Penalties include being
Re:WARNING (Score:2)
Re:WARNING (Score:2)
Re:WARNING (Score:2)
So, not only:
1) Do you not have a sense of humor
2) You're too big a pussy to post it under your account name
but
3) You aren't even smart enough to use the AC checkbox.
Damn. That is sad.
Re:WARNING (Score:2)
Re:WARNING (Score:2)
And if your friend protests, she is obviously a pedo and terorrist sympathiser and thus can be executed. Hail Victory.
Great sense of direction (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:4, Interesting)
In fact I used to perform such "experiments" with ants. The ants at my place used scent trails. If I rub-off the scent trail left behind, the ants coming behind get dis-oriented for a while.
And when I transport an ant manually to an unknown territory, it raises its head and looks around for familiar landmarks.
Not all ants use scent trails. I found that the larger ones use the direction of a light source (or their shadow) to navigate to a place.
MIT Mobile Robot Lab (Score:5, Interesting)
** I hope I'm correct on the details... I'm going from memory from a reading of Connell's Master's Degree disseration I read probably ten years back... I believe the title was "Minimilist Mobile Robotics" but I'm certain it was published through Academic Press. This was one of the early MIT Mobile Robot Lab robots to use Subsumption Architecture.
Re:MIT Mobile Robot Lab (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:MIT Mobile Robot Lab (Score:3, Funny)
Heck, most of my coworkers have brains TWICE as big as an ant's, and have a hard time with spacial orientation.
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
"41 steps south, then turn right 43 degrees, then 814 steps, then turn left 7 degrees, and go 128 steps". I could do it! (okay, probably not).
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
Next time you have a column of tiny immigrants breaking in and going for the sugar, block their ingress with a pile of the other white powder. Cheaper and less toxic than some of the other alternatives.
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
block their ingress with a pile of the other white powder
You KNOW someone's going to try it with the other "other white powder". Ants with a case of the munchies ...
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
I had a roach infestation once and spread boric acid everywhere. It was a white powder but I didn't try any. Quite an effective insecticide, and it uses a truly cruel mechanism.
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
Boric acid mixed with icing sugar is what the pros use.
Me, I'm just trying to find boric acid so I can make silly putty [sillyputty.com].
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
I got it from an old-fashioned pharmacy for $8/kg.
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
But he said he knew some of them, and they wouldn't do anything like that.
So, I'm betting that the "other other" white powder won't afford much temptation.
Re:Great sense of direction (Score:2)
Stumps and stilts (Score:2, Funny)
And if some alien race comes down to do the experiment on us, I hope they attach stilts to my legs rather than creating stumps out of them.
Re:Stumps and stilts (Score:2, Funny)
1,2,3,4... Same as us I'd expect, only in antese.
Re:Stumps and stilts (Score:2)
Images of the ants generated by electron microscope have revealed the ants all carry TI-83 calculators in a bag attached to the abdomen. Further investigation has also shown the more popular ants to carry iPods and Motorola RAZR cell phones. These ants, however, do not use the internal pedometer system to reach home, instead relying on the dashboard GPS navigation syst
Ouch? (Score:1)
Proportionally, 1mm is a very small change.
Re:Ouch? (Score:1)
Re:Ouch? (Score:2)
When you legs are only 5 mm long to start with, 1mm is a SIGNIFICANT change- 20% shorter.
Take a hacksaw and cut your legs a few inches below the middle of your shin, see how well you do.
Re:Ouch? (Score:2)
Their legs are longer than 5mm, as the higher they are off the sand, the cooler it is.
Rear leg length is normally much longer than the others, as an ant will stand up on it's rear legs to elevate when it needs to cool off.
I'll concede the larger point, that 1mm is a significant portion of the leg length, but it definitely isn't 20%
Re:Ouch? (Score:1)
Re:Ouch? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ouch? (Score:1)
Proportionally, 1mm is a very small change."
Dont know how long the ants legs are where you come from, but around here 1mm is a major proportion of ant leg!
1-800-lawyers (Score:2)
On the upside, the ants had no trouble finding personal injury attorneys to take their case.
Humans have an internal pedometer too (Score:5, Funny)
Commenly called the beer scooter, it is a mechanism that guides you safley home to your bed, no matter how far away or how drunk you get. Its side effects can be unfortunate though as unexplained cuts and bruises plus a bank account severly depleted of funds are commen occurances upon awakening.
Re:Humans have an internal pedometer too (Score:1)
http://www.circlecity.co.uk/text_jokes/beer_scoot
Re:Humans have an internal pedometer too (Score:2)
Pretty neat... (plus link) (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA, the video of the ant with stilts (worth a watch):
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/av/dn94 36.mpg [newscientist.com]
Thought it was pretty neat; the ant begins to look like a spider with the longer legs. The video didn't seem to have any additional bearing to the study, though. You'd need to read TFA for how the stilts helped in their conclusion.
I love entomology! (Score:5, Funny)
I, for one... (Score:2, Funny)
On the serious side, (Score:3, Funny)
1. The ants are decades ahead of us in pedometer miniaturization.
2. They've managed to keep their advanced technology secret for years.
3. They finally revealed it only after brutal mutilation.
These three facts together should give us pause.
Re:On the serious side, (Score:2)
1. The ants are decades ahead of us in pedometer miniaturization.
2. They've managed to keep their advanced technology secret for years.
3. They finally revealed it only after brutal mutilation.
These three facts together should give us pause.
Obviously, this calls for government action. I say we need a "war on ants".
Treadmill! (Score:5, Interesting)
messing with the legs (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:messing with the legs (Score:2, Interesting)
doesn't seem conclusive (Score:2)
What if the ants basically know how tired they are after they get home?
I know when I walk a long way, I get tired at about the same distance. I'm not counting my steps and I don't think my brain is doing it subconsciously.
They need to weigh an ant down or attach it to a tiny helium balloon for the trip to rule it out. It's no sillier than putting stilts on them.
Your logic is false (Score:4, Insightful)
So it can't be tiredness, that would only work for two seperate journeys, not a round trip.
What could work is "fuel" consumption. This is probably the same both ways but again fails because the ant is on a feeding trip. He will be travelling empty on the way to the food source and carrying food on the return trip wich probably cause him to burn more fuel.
Just get out the old car anology. Your "tired" idea translates then to the heat of the engine. a trip on even terrain should see the engine heat up to the same degree but on a round trip to the shops the engine would not cool down to the same level as when you started.
The fuel consumption would also not work because on the return trip your car will be heavier.
So how do we measure distance in a car? Oh wait with a pedometer like device wich same as with the ants will be screwed up if you change the size of your tires.
Funny experiment, chopping legs of ants and giving them stilts. I bet that impresses the girls.
Re:doesn't seem conclusive (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:doesn't seem conclusive (Score:2)
Re:doesn't seem conclusive (Score:2)
More details? (Score:5, Interesting)
As the most obvious example to spring to mind; they tried ants with legs (we're left to assume) 50% longer that went 50% further than home and legs 50% shorter that only got halfway home. They then say this is because he counts steps -- obviously each step takes the one ant 50% further and the other 50% shorter.
So what if the ant goes by the amount of time it's been traveling; nothing to do with counting steps at all --?
You'd expect exactly the same results.
I hope it's just the awful article -- if the study is so poor they've really learned nothing.
Re:More details? (Score:2)
Re:More details? (Score:2)
Re:More details? (Score:3, Informative)
The normal ants walk at average speed of 0.31 m/s
Stumped ants walk at average speed of 0.14 m/s
Stilted ants would be expected to walk faster. But their average speed was measured to be 0.29 m/s. They think its probably due to the increased weight of the glue and stilts.
So, your argument regarding the time taken to travel back is probably not true.
Furthermore, in their statistical modeling they adjusted for the speed of the ant among many other fac
Re:More details? (Score:2)
Most higher animals have some sense of time, and it can be VERY accurate (to within a minute or so in 24 hours). Most people who regularly drive long distances (and particularly on unpaved roads) get so they think in terms of "about nn-hours" rather than mileage. Etc. Anyway, considering how widespread "timesense" is in the higher animals, chances are it's a very primitive function (evolution-wise), thus somet
Everything I need to know about ants... (Score:5, Funny)
Correct link for original paper... (Score:1, Informative)
(subscription needed to read the full paper).
What if... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What if... (Score:2)
Our results showed that up to a distance of about 7 metres the ants were able to find their way back to home. Please note we took the ants from their nests and placed them at varying distances from the nest in varying directions. We did not make a distinction between ants with different functions in the nest.
It was interesting to see that the ants would sometimes interact with other ants a
Re:What if... (Score:2, Funny)
Side Crawlers (Score:5, Insightful)
Many beach/land crabs use the same system. They also have built-in abilities to make calculations on the quickest diagonal path to their burrow - ie the pythagorean theorem. One guy did some experiments where he would do things to mess up the step count of the crabs to their burrows, and they always were displaced by the exactly difference in step count. The crabs have no idea where their burrow is or what it looks like, they just know how to walk there. It must be the same in ants.
Ants may use Pedometers to find home... (Score:5, Funny)
They Keep Going, & Going (Score:3, Funny)
LSD or Weed? (Score:5, Funny)
ANTNet (Score:5, Interesting)
The idea was based on the pheramone trails left behind whne ants seek food. You see, one ant leaves behind a trail, not a big one, but a small scent to be picked-up by other ants. When it finds food, it will retrace it's steps backwards and double the intesity of the pheramone trail. If another ant happens upon a trail, it will follow the trail to the food and increase the trail's intensity again. If the trail ever ends without a prize, ants look around to try and pick-up the trail again. Simple concept, right?
Adapting this behaviour from ants to packets on a network was easy. You had ants that walk forward and ants that walk backwards. Forward ants would collect hostnames, IP address and time stamps as they passed through any PC and kept going to their host. Backward ants updated the routing table when they retraced their steps. If any route had a lower cost (latency) then the entry already in the routing table, then an updated entry was posted. There was also a hidden advantage to all this - if, for any reason, a node went down or dropped off the network it was easily and quickly detected. Furthermore if a link went down, alternate routes were already in place if you kept double-layered routing table... quick, easy and fast network response times were the result. Consider time stamps like a tick on a pedometer...
In case you're wondering, all computers on the network ran NTP to sync the time and give us one less hassle to worry about (this could be easily incorporated if need-be).
My main area of research was to figure-out where and when the Ants started to impeed the network instead of help it. I found it to be a function of the number of discovery ants versus time and nodes on the network... some pretty rough math ensued from what I remember, but the time delta between discovery ants was paramount in any effective benefit to the network.
Food for thought... or to the trail with the most ants.
Re:ANTNet (Score:2)
MUTE File Sharing [sourceforge.net] uses this idea to create an anonymous file sharing network. Since all the file transfer is done by ants, there's nobody to sue :-) Ok, it's actually a bit more complicated [sourceforge.net] - the packets mimic ants by using only local information to find d
Re:ANTNet (Score:2)
This would be awesome to combine with an address-asignment protocol I conjured up a while back: CERP:- Chicken-Egg Resolution Protocol.
Basically a DHCP-like service, without requiring a dedicated server. I've always wanted to release it as an RFC on April 1st.
Just what makes that little old ant... (Score:4, Funny)
Pink Floyd (Score:4, Funny)
Sweet! (Score:2)
Throw them off? (Score:3, Funny)
Homing Instinct (Score:2, Interesting)
Silver Saharan Ants are even more interesting. (Score:5, Interesting)
Silver ants (they look more like they are chrome-plated than silver) also live in the Sahara. They come out at the hottest time of day, when all predators are hiding, and they are extremely reflective. They have a special gait that allows them to keep half their feet off the sand in the shadow of their bodies, and they keep switching off so their feet don't cook. They move about in a fairly normal search pattern, but when they find something they run directly back to the nest without retracing their original route! Although they are believed to have good vision, their environment contains almost no visual cues - one sand dune's pretty much like another - and they will pass through territory they haven't seen on the way back to the nest.
Silver ants are also very hive-oriented or "altruistic". Individual foragers will go past their survival distance looking for food, but they turn around and come back so that their dead bodies are within the survival distance and can be recovered by other foragers. That way, if there is a food/water source that is further out than an ant could travel without such resources, they will still find it and use it.
All this is from memory and the wiki article is lame. If anybody has some good links for silver ants please post!
hrumpf (Score:2)
The usual way to find the way (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.geocities.com/chamonate/hormigas/antfa
It tries to emulate the usual ants, that find the food and the way back using pheromone traces.
counting steps, what a drag (Score:3, Funny)
"Three-hundred seventy-thousand, five-hundred and four
"Three-hundred seventy-thousand, five-hundred and five
"Oh hey Joe, how's foraging?"
"Can't complain. Did you catch the game last night? Eight to one baby, totally blew the spread!"
"Eight to one, yeah that was pretty insane. Well, gotta get back to the grind."
"See ya in the tunnels."
"Three-hundred seventy thousand, eight-hundred and one
I call bullshit (Score:2)
Years ago, nobody was sure how honeybees knew how far they were flying, whether it was visual or they kept track of how much energy they burned, etc.. Nobody suggested they counted wing flaps, because that's just stupid.
Anyway, it was proven that bees use visual cues. Not landmarks, like this article seems to suggest is the only way, but by how fast it
Re:I call bullshit (Score:2)
Moron.
Re:I call bullshit (Score:2)
Shorter legs = closer to ground = ground appears to be moving faster = ants will walk less distance.
Or, it could me an extremely complex pedometer.
A better choice would be to have the walk over perfectly featureless ground vs. striped ground, or even better have them walk over glass that has a movable pattern underneath it.
Nonsense, ants use subspace! (Score:2)
Re:And has the research has ruled out the obvious? (Score:2)
Re:I read different in a book... (Score:2)
Or like ants with their legs cut off.
Re:I read different in a book... (Score:2)
Re:I read different in a book... (Score:2)
Re:counting system? (Score:2)
0010 1010
Re:evolution anyone? (Score:2, Funny)
Sort of like the presumptuous notion that mountains and valleys were formed by geological processes and not some other phenomena that, unknown to humanity, happen to produce mountains and valleys as well.
Umm, no, not really (Score:2)
But this (alone) doesn't either prove or disprove evolution at all, much less "conclusive proof". Just because species X has A, and species Y has B, it doesn't mean they couldn't have been created like that.
E.g., look at the bears in World Of Warcraft. Some are white, some are brown, some are black, some are bigger, some are smaller... but there was no evolution involved anyway. Some game designer or artist just w
Re:Umm, no, not really (Score:2)
So the level designer is Satan? Dunno, that seems a bit harsh
Re:Seems lacking something (Score:2)
My theory is that they play an ant form of "Marco Polo" and then they triangulate on where they hear the "polos" coming from to find their location.
Re:Leg shortening (Score:2)
I think they should've just shortened the legs on one side of their bodies and seen if the ants ended up walking in circles.